Guild Wars 2

I just don’t understand! Were people complaining about Necromancer being overpowered!? Were there too many Necromancers in top PVP!? Were we the number one requested class in PVE!?

Please just someone explain to me why changes like the Consume Condition one and Spectral Walk ‘bug’ fix were needed??

What am I supposed to do in PVP now? Already as it was Consume Conditions was just barely enough to make all the condition and crowd control mayhem bearable what am I supposed to pick now?? 10 Stacks of Vulnerability is INSANE, you go 4 seconds with that and you WILL be dead, you wont even have time to pass it on.

Assuming I pick one of the other heals…what am I going to do about conditions as a power-necro?? Dagger offhand? Then basically lose an interrupt and reliable swiftness? Take spectral walk to make up for the lack of swiftness? Come on seriously this is insane we are going to be -WRECKED- in all forms of PVP, have they even seen what the other professions are capable of??

The Lich Form nerf too I mean…5 seconds reduced duration? WHY? Already as it was we either got focus nuked to hell or people abused LoS until it ran out and now you make it even easier for 2-3 people to cheese our elite ability by hiding behind an object? Again, was this complained about a lot!?

I just do not understand where the idea or understanding of these nerfs came from, I hadn’t seen anyone complaining seriously about Necromancer in anything, infact most people regarded us as trash in things like PVE, where did all this come from?? Random?

Just reroll engi or wait for revenant.

Even if you take dagger offhand, in higher levels of competitive play, no one will get hit by the dagger condi transfer. Which means its just a wasted weapon slot so you’re still better off taking the warhorn.

You ask what did we do?

We were OP during the beta-weekends!
That’s a sin which can’t be forgotten! We must bear our punishment for it for years!

they are trying to force us to use the new shouts by shttin all over the few good utilities we had

Eat my conditions, heal up, next hit back to where I started because 10% extra damage. Is there any other heal skill in this game that penalizes you for using it?

Dstroya.6705:

Eat my conditions, heal up, next hit back to where I started because 10% extra damage. Is there any other heal skill in this game that penalizes you for using it?

No, that’s the point.

Lich was complained about occasionally. It was counterable, because you could run, LoS, or reflect it, but it is annoying. Really the only complaint I’ve consistently had is the spinal shivers proc (especially in downstate if the +20% activates on top of the downstate extra damage). Eating a ~6k proc if you’ve won a fight is annoying.

Everything else, I dunno.

Sorry.

Maugetarr.6823:

Lich was complained about occasionally. It was counterable, because you could run, LoS, or reflect it, but it is annoying. Really the only complaint I’ve consistently had is the spinal shivers proc (especially in downstate if the +20% activates on top of the downstate extra damage). Eating a ~6k proc if you’ve won a fight is annoying.

Everything else, I dunno.

Sorry.

Funny thing with Lich is it’s basically the same thing as rampage on warrior, and warriors didn’t get a reduced transform time and their trait gives it 10% damage unlike our spectral trait. :P

Someone made a dev mad yo.

Its not like we got nerfed. While there are very valid complaints to be made, the only build that might have been nerfed was condi, other than that we are stronger after these changes than before.

Does the new Consume Conditions eat the entire stack of up to 5 different conditions or just the first five of anything?

The Lich duration reduction was effected because it is now classified as a Spectral skill, and the traited duration increase will bring it back over 20 seconds, if you trait for it. Lich wasn’t great for PvP anyway, because it’s easily countered and makes you #1 focus. Basically, Liching up meant you could more quickly win a fight you probably already had won. It was decent, but not the best use of an elite slot.

The Plague change (2 seconds of bleeding every second) is rather cruel. It’s essentially just for the stomps/rezzes now and isn’t much of an escape/control device. As far as I know, it’s the only elite that actively kills you. The Poison it applies to enemies was increased from 1 to 2 seconds, which . . . I suppose intends to balance the change?

Anchoku.8142:

Does the new Consume Conditions eat the entire stack of up to 5 different conditions or just the first five of anything?

You’re thinking of the new Plague Signet, which used to transfer all conditions and now transfers only 5. Consume Conditions will remove all conditions, then apply 10 stacks of Vulnerability — plus another condition if you’ve traited to reduce the newly increased cooldown. Slotting this trait means going into the conditions line and taking neither Terror nor Path of Corruption.

Bhawb.7408:

Its not like we got nerfed. While there are very valid complaints to be made, the only build that might have been nerfed was condi, other than that we are stronger after these changes than before.

Considering I’m a condi player, its a devastating nerf to me. I wouldn’t have minded Terror with their original plans for Lingering Curse next to each other as long as terror got a bit of a buff to it. But now we have 3 Grandmasters that still sit on top of each other AND have 2 masters that sit on top of each other. I’d say that the new corruption trait sits on top but that one is so bad it actually kills us.

Reaper has a shout that also transfers conditions.

Staff, OH dagger, WoP, Consume Conditions, Plague S, Shout something, Sigil of Generosity; these will become critical with all the condition spam I expect. Keep at least two and probably three.

Necromancer – Reaper will be kited and CC’d heavily

Bhawb.7408:

Its not like we got nerfed. While there are very valid complaints to be made, the only build that might have been nerfed was condi, other than that we are stronger after these changes than before.

Its called balance though. Other classes got much larger buffs. Look at their traits, so incredibly synergy builds on every other class

We got amazing trait synergy too… as long as you don’t play condi.

There will be a bit more support on Necromancer than there is, now. Otherwise, Necromancer looks like a flat transfer, to me, of skills and traits.

not much in the way of re balancing from what I can tell.

L Step.8659:

Maugetarr.6823:

Lich was complained about occasionally. It was counterable, because you could run, LoS, or reflect it, but it is annoying. Really the only complaint I’ve consistently had is the spinal shivers proc (especially in downstate if the +20% activates on top of the downstate extra damage). Eating a ~6k proc if you’ve won a fight is annoying.

Everything else, I dunno.

Sorry.

Funny thing with Lich is it’s basically the same thing as rampage on warrior, and warriors didn’t get a reduced transform time and their trait gives it 10% damage unlike our spectral trait. :P

Someone made a dev mad yo.

10% per Adrenalin bar u have bro so up to 30%

-Casually sips tea-

All I know is, I can spite without using signet of spite.

Bhawb.7408:

We got amazing trait synergy too… as long as you don’t play condi.

EVEN IF you play condi.

I mean guys, seriously, Plague Sending exists right? I’m not dreaming it up am I? You’re complaining about consume conditions when, if you really wanted to, you could have 4 ways to transfer condis to your enemy, 1 way to consume those conditions, and another way to convert those conditions into boons.

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

Dirame.8521:

Bhawb.7408:

We got amazing trait synergy too… as long as you don’t play condi.

EVEN IF you play condi.

I mean guys, seriously, Plague Sending exists right? I’m not dreaming it up am I? You’re complaining about consume conditions when, if you really wanted to, you could have 4 ways to transfer condis to your enemy, 1 way to consume those conditions, and another way to convert those conditions into boons.

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

Necros have lots of issues. You don’t play a necromancer do you?

Sadrien.3470:

Necros have lots of issues. You don’t play a necromancer do you?

Issues?

We’re the must-have for speed-dungeon runs! Every party has at least 2 necros!
sPvP Tournaments are full of necros, a team without a necro can’t win nowadays!
We are even OP, you can’t say we have issues!
/end of sarcasm

Dirame.8521:

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

If you aren’t joking, you ought to read some more of the comments, then.

First, as has been said over and over, the fact that a Necromancer can transfer the Vulnerability (plus undisclosed second condition from trait) does not mean that it is good design that it must try to do so. No other profession has a heal ability that requires you to use a secondary ability afterward in order to survive. This is a bad way to be unique.

Second, 10% extra damage for 4 seconds (plus condition duration if you have any) is likely death. If a team fails to interrupt your heal, they will know to focus you immediately afterward. 4 seconds is more than enough time for two burst characters to kill you. This means that you must take Plague Signet just to be sure that you can get rid of the Vuln while in a stun chain. Even then, Necromancers deal with focus poorly.

Third, the basic heal had its cd increased by 20% and had a penalty added. This was the profession’s core (best) heal and it was made worse. Even untraited, it is still better than the alternatives, which heal for roughly the same amount (or less) but do not do anything else for the Necromancer. If one takes the trait to reduce the cd (to 20% less than its current cd) then one must a) accept another condition on top of the Vulnerability, and b) forego selecting one of two traits critical to Condition Necromancers. This makes it very bad for Condition Necromancers.

Fourth, condition transfer only works if there is a target. After winning a fight, there is often no one available. Currently, Consume allows one to get out of combat that much more quickly so as to be able to rotate to someplace it is needed. The change will make this no longer the case.

Maybe these things don’t matter in PvE, but in competitive modes, where Necromancer is already in a rough spot, the changes are greatly for the worse.

Dirame.8521:

Bhawb.7408:

We got amazing trait synergy too… as long as you don’t play condi.

EVEN IF you play condi.

I mean guys, seriously, Plague Sending exists right? I’m not dreaming it up am I? You’re complaining about consume conditions when, if you really wanted to, you could have 4 ways to transfer condis to your enemy, 1 way to consume those conditions, and another way to convert those conditions into boons.

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

The thing you dont understand about pvp is that there is already a ton of conditions flying around. Putti g your own conditions on yourself is not needed and simply overloads your transfers and cleanses. Also some traits need crits which means rabid. Rabid makes a necro very weak to condis.

There are none trivial things and i understand why you or anet might not realise them so im not being rude.

Well necro was arguably one of the weakest zerkers in pvp anyway. The only weaker thing I can think of is static discharge engi.

Just wait for the changes and play thief. The strongest zerker spec, now with both panic and executioner and the ability to go balls deep in shadow arts for fancy sustain!

I uninstalled already.

The treatment of necro by the devs is either cynical or shows a complete lack of understanding both of which make me question the professionalism of the people in charge of developing the game.

Bundle that with the ridiculous handling of the pre-purchase and I have no reason to care anymore. Just happy I never paid a dime for gems; would have a lot of regrets.

Ocosh.5843:

Dirame.8521:

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

If you aren’t joking, you ought to read some more of the comments, then.

First, as has been said over and over, the fact that a Necromancer can transfer the Vulnerability (plus undisclosed second condition from trait) does not mean that it is good design that it must try to do so. No other profession has a heal ability that requires you to use a secondary ability afterward in order to survive. This is a bad way to be unique.

So you want the Necro to be like every other class? You don’t want to do cool things with the abilities you’ve been given? You want to be bland like the Engie and easy like the Guardian? If that’s the kind of game you want, I personally do not want any part of it.

You’ve really go to look at what you can do with the stuff we’ve got;
For instance, combining Consume with Master of Corruptions, Unholy Martyr and Deathly Perception. Some of you guys think we don’t have trait synergy, you’re so wrong.

Ocosh.5843:

Second, 10% extra damage for 4 seconds (plus condition duration if you have any) is likely death. If a team fails to interrupt your heal, they will know to focus you immediately afterward. 4 seconds is more than enough time for two burst characters to kill you. This means that you must take Plague Signet just to be sure that you can get rid of the Vuln while in a stun chain. Even then, Necromancers deal with focus poorly.

You don’t have to take Plague signet. You’ve got Staff, off-hand Dagger, traits that remove conditions overtime in deathshroud, traits that transfer a condition on crit, runes that transfer a condition on crit. Are you really going complain about 4s of Vuln when you can remove it in less than a second?

Ocosh.5843:

Third, the basic heal had its cd increased by 20% and had a penalty added. This was the profession’s core (best) heal and it was made worse. Even untraited, it is still better than the alternatives, which heal for roughly the same amount (or less) but do not do anything else for the Necromancer. If one takes the trait to reduce the cd (to 20% less than its current cd) then one must a) accept another condition on top of the Vulnerability, and b) forego selecting one of two traits critical to Condition Necromancers. This makes it very bad for Condition Necromancers.

The positioning of the other traits needs to be evaluated yes but the function of the heal does not. The heal itself works fine and the CD was increased because of the new trait that affects it.

Ocosh.5843:

Fourth, condition transfer only works if there is a target. After winning a fight, there is often no one available. Currently, Consume allows one to get out of combat that much more quickly so as to be able to rotate to someplace it is needed. The change will make this no longer the case.

If it only lasts for 4s, it shouldn’t be a problem.

Dirame.8521:

You don’t have to take Plague signet. You’ve got Staff, off-hand Dagger, traits that remove conditions overtime in deathshroud, traits that transfer a condition on crit, runes that transfer a condition on crit. Are you really going complain about 4s of Vuln when you can remove it in less than a second?

Staff, off-hand dagger, so you don’t have to take plague signet, but if you don’t then you DO have to take these two weapons you might not otherwise use. Not forgetting the fact that off-hand dagger is basically worthless in PvP and can take several seconds to land in PvE which means that either the condition has killed you, or you’ve already killed the mob while it’s in flight, which means it’s wasted and your conditions will kill you.

The DS clears are every 3 seconds which means camping in DS to clear several, or blowing your DS CD just to get rid of vulnerability. In other words you have to blow your defence mechanism just to recover from using your heal, which is lunacy. No matter how you spin this, the result is in the same, using CC puts you in a worse position.

The transfer trait only works on enemies which are below 25% health, so that’s unreliable at best.

And as for Runes? Should we really have to speci into a specific rune set just to use our heal without penalty?!

then you’re missing the very important point that all of the things you mention have other conditions which needs to be met in order to make them work, which is going to take anything up to several seconds, by which point the transfer becomes worthless because transfers only pass on the remaining time. Using your staff, will transfer less than three seconds of weakness, off-hand dagger could be anywhere from 3 seconds to 0 depending on the situation and the traits might not activate at all.

As for the cooldown increase being to balance out the traits, that’s even more ludicrous. Traiting for signets just to make the cooldown balance, forcing you to miss out on other traits is bad enough, but when that trait will add a second condition, the DS Condi clear becomes even less reliable. One clearence every three seconds, firstly you can’t help but take some of the vulnerability hit since it takes time to activate DS, at the same time, you’ll be suffering from the second condition that the signet trait adds on. Once you’re in DS, there’s no guarentee that it will be the vulnerability that gets cleansed, which ever it is, you’ll be stuck with the remaining condition for three full seconds.

Make the CD less horrific means your clears and transfers will have to be used just so that you can use your heal, leaving you completely vulnerable to further incoming conditions. I can’t think of a single class that has to blow cleanses and utilities even while being shoe-horned into specific traits, just to make their main, basic heal useful, or even survivable.

Dirame.8521:

The positioning of the other traits needs to be evaluated yes but the function of the heal does not. The heal itself works fine and the CD was increased because of the new trait that affects it.

It doesn’t though does it, if you have to reavulate skill trees just to make the heal useful, then it’s not fine. That you have to rely on traits, weapon skills and utilities to make it usable proves that it is not.

Ocosh.5843:

Fourth, condition transfer only works if there is a target. After winning a fight, there is often no one available. Currently, Consume allows one to get out of combat that much more quickly so as to be able to rotate to someplace it is needed. The change will make this no longer the case.

Dirame.8521:

If it only lasts for 4s, it shouldn’t be a problem.

4 seconds is a long time in a quick reaction game like GW2. It’s plenty of time for other players to burst you down. Especially when they can disengage and heal up, but you can’t. It’s also too long to have on a toon that has few means of mitigating or avoiding damage, while not being enough time to transfer and be a threat. Blowing Cds and wasting your defnsive skill, just to use your main heal and inflict another player with a fraction of a second of vulnerability? simply isn’t worth it.

Keep it and die or transfer it and die because you’ve been forced to use your defences by your own heal skill. Great choice we have there.

I’m pretty okay with the other changes, but the change to Consume Conditions is just beyond the pale. It’s "Consume"Conditions, not “Switcheroo” Conditions.

As fast as condis happen in this game to make us use a condi clear after using a heal is ridiculous. Don’t care how you spin it, it’s a bad trade off.

kittening consume conditions is bad for two reasons. Untrained it is a longer cooldown before, and it gives vulnerability to the caster. Traited it gives you vulnerability and a kittening random kittening condition which could end up kittening you hard. It’s so kittening stupid I can kittening imagine what the kitten they were thinking. I want to spit

So you trait for the reduced cooldown, and you heal and get vulnerability, and fear, or vulnerability and chill, and you don’t think four seconds of vuln while being chilled is not a game changer because you chose to kittening heal? Lol in what kittening instance is this a good thing? Oh, you mean you hope the ring transfers the condi’s to someone else? Not only do I have to rpnot have terror for this kittening trait and lose dmg, but if I chose terror I have to wait even longer to use the slowest most visible heal in the game coupled with the fact that I need to deal with the ten kittening stacks of vulnerability in me. Lol.

WHAT OTHER CLASS HAS TO kitten ITSELF TO GET LACKLUSTER SKILLS TO DO DAMAGE. NO CLASS HAS TO kitten THEMSELVES TO DO DAMAGE AND TO TOP IT OFF THSES kittenING SKILLS WE HAVE ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO OP, THEY ARE SI PLY….. Average at best

Spit

Anyone remember that CDI from a long time ago where people voted rangers and necros (and something else, possibly engis) as being the classes that needed the most attention?

Yeah, wonder what happened to that lol.

I’m still just laughing that they nerfed Consume Conditions so bad and didn’t even have the courtesy to reduce the cast time.

This is a few months old for an April Fools joke…This skill was perfect as it was. Maybe reduce the cast time a little bit, it’s so easily interrupted.

I really try to reserve judgement till I can try something new, but honestly, isn’t it customary to kiss someone before you “poke” them??? Our heal skill will become part of players burst rotation. Pve is so faceroll, it probably won’t matter on that mode as much.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’m still just laughing that they nerfed Consume Conditions so bad and didn’t even have the courtesy to reduce the cast time.

I’m just amazed that they didn’t increase the cast as well. If you’re going to add a penalty condition for just using it, another on the cooldown to balance a trait you wouldn’t even normally use, why not just add to the cast time as well, cos, ya know, pffft, stuff necro