Guild Wars 2

Better than other professions of course? What do they excel at? Because the last time I asked to some 80 Necros in game I was told they are not the best at anything. Other classes stack conditions better and Ele is better in AoE damage, they said.

We are better at dying faster in downed state, and we are better at wasting utility slots on broken minions.

Though, I love this class, so while we may not be the best at anything, I do think we are good at quite a few things.

I can name so many.

1. work with tons of glitches and buggy animations
2. get tossed around like a rag doll vs hard cc
3. get underplayed in tpvp
4. get the least attention from devs or any real balance fixes

the list goes on :P

Jumping down cliffs.

And epidemic.

Afya.5842:

Jumping down cliffs.

And epidemic.

That’s true.
We are the best profession at jumping down from cliffs.
We can jump from any height without dying!

Noctis.2738:

Better than other professions of course? What do they excel at? Because the last time I asked to some 80 Necros in game I was told they are not the best at anything. Other classes stack conditions better and Ele is better in AoE damage, they said.

This is all true, unfortunately. At one point you could argue that necros were the best at boon stripping, but not any more. The undisputed kings of boon stripping are now thieves after they buffed the sword 3 skill.

We can level from 1-80 naked just by using minions I hear.

Rok.5260:

We can level from 1-80 naked just by using minions I hear.

Only if minions want to.
They usually prefer watch you being beaten hard with a pop-corn bucket and tortillas.

Rok.5260:

We can level from 1-80 naked just by using minions I hear.

So can rangers.

Applying bleeds ingame (thief ‘might’ get close but in the end, I feel necro is better at this)
achieving (shortly) best armor ingame (plagueform, 5600 armor I got once with it)
jumping down cliffs so much fun
etc.

I really hope they boost us in some way though.

They said specifically they don’t want us to have vigor/more stability. But in order to make that work we must have some resistance ourself against, CC. CC is one of the best ways to kill a necromancers.

Kravick.4906:

Rok.5260:

We can level from 1-80 naked just by using minions I hear.

So can rangers.

I had a very hard dying when I played my ranger during PvE. This does not surprise me.

We got the best ‘res signet’. It’s up to 3 people next to each other, IF there 80% life or higher. It’s got the shortest CD tho.

We can throw our conditions back to a target, change peopkitten ons into conditions. Just, slow casts & long CDs mean most don’t notice as others around you usually cleared them off.

We can spread conditions. So were king of any fight where everything is closely packed together, and your groups wanting to aoe them down over the next 10 sec or so. There is 1 boss in a dungeon that keeps spawning adds, that don’t hurt so everyone just focus’s dam on the boss. Ya’ll usually get to fill your screen with small bleed tick numbers twice during that fight.

We get to be the only one who doesn’t cleave with a melee weap.

^

“King of any fight where everything is closely packed together”

I think it goes like this:

WvW – Staff Ele’s
PvE – GS Warriors

Noctis.2738:

Better than other professions of course? What do they excel at? Because the last time I asked to some 80 Necros in game I was told they are not the best at anything. Other classes stack conditions better and Ele is better in AoE damage, they said.

Actually, we have superior AoE physical damage over time to any other class. The only class in the game that can beat us in overall AoE physical damage would be Shatter Mesmer. We also have a huge amount of AoE utility and combo fields.

We also can tank extremely effectively utilizing Vampirism in PvE and WvW better than any other class save Ranger.

We can bunker as effectively as a Guardian.

We do everything quite well, however, we are definitely not great with conditions compared to other classes.

Five things Necros do that others can’t or have limited access to. Note these aren’t in any order of importance:

1. Pulse turn all boons on enemies into conditions (Well of Corruption) or convert a single target (Corrupt boon).

2. Pulse turn all conditions on yourself and allies into boons (Well of Power).

3. Self and group Condition Control/Removal, removing multiple conditions at once (Well of Power, Deathly Swarm, Consume Conditions, Plague Signet, Edit: Putrid Mark).

4. Access to plenty of AoE bleed skills with 2-3 stacks, 7-10 second durations and short recharge times (Mark of Blood/Mark of Evasion trait, Grasping Dead, Enfeeble Blood/Weakening Shroad Trait). Other professions may stack more bleeds against a “single” target much faster and stronger, but no others can stack as many bleeds against multiple targets (x5) continuously like a Necro. Also Necro AoE Bleed damage is not on par with Ele AoE damage, but necro damage “moves” with the target. On the other hand conditions can be removed entirely or reduced in duration so both have their problems.

5. Proliferate condition damage (Epidemic). No other profession can take a player or boss with 25 stacks of bleed, confusion, burning etc. and spread that to another 5 nearby enemies. With a proper Epidemic combined with continuous AoE you can melt a good part of a zerg in WvW or groups of mobs in dungeons/maps. The problem is trying to land a proper Epidemic. The casting time causes you to miss opportunities more often than not.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Actually, we have superior AoE physical damage over time to any other class.

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TheMightyAltroll.3485:

We also can tank extremely effectively utilizing Vampirism in PvE and WvW better than any other class save Ranger.

We can bunker as effectively as a Guardian.

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TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Actually, we have superior AoE physical damage over time to any other class.

A Wellmancer outputs incredible AoE damage and utility that damages more effectively than any other class in the game.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

We also can tank extremely effectively utilizing Vampirism in PvE and WvW better than any other class save Ranger.

We can bunker as effectively as a Guardian.

A knight’s based Vampirism build with siphoning wells can prove very difficult to kill, mitigating constant damage.

A protection/well based Necromancer can survive a very long time. I can’t reveal the entire build (because he asked me not to) but a friend of mine named Spazza made a build that can bunker just as effectively as a Guardian can. If not better.

CD on wells are awful, *

2vs1 with a guardian is viable, at least until the support arrives,

2vs1 with a necro is imposible, you’ll be CC and murdered in seconds,

I’m ALMOST COMPLETLY SURE there’s no way a necro can hold a point better than a guardian,

*EDIT: Damage is great, sure, but it’s not efficient at all, (except to grab some badges on WvW),

Engels.8537:

CD on wells are awful, *

2vs1 with a guardian is viable, at least until the support arrives,

2vs1 with a necro is imposible, you’ll be CC and murdered in seconds,

I’m ALMOST COMPLETLY SURE there’s no way a necro can hold a point better than a guardian,

*EDIT: Damage is great, sure, but it’s not efficient at all, (except to grab some badges on WvW),

This is from a tPvP perspective. Well cooldowns are indeed inappropriate, but that does not disregard how powerful they are.

The Necro build was able to last against a 3v1, comprised of my Wellmancer, a Backstab Thief, and a Condition Beastmaster Ranger for upwards of 260 seconds.

Engels.8537:

CD on wells are awful, *

2vs1 with a guardian is viable, at least until the support arrives,

2vs1 with a necro is imposible, you’ll be CC and murdered in seconds,

I’m ALMOST COMPLETLY SURE there’s no way a necro can hold a point better than a guardian,

*EDIT: Damage is great, sure, but it’s not efficient at all, (except to grab some badges on WvW),

Well cooldowns are mostly fine in my opinion. If they were any less than they would be overpowered. The only ones I think could use adjustment are Well of Power and Well of Darkness which should be 45 second base cooldowns like the others.

2v1 Guardian is viable exactly as you say.

2v1 Necro is possible if your not being cced to death. With my WvW support well/epidemic build in SPvP, I have gone 3-4 vs 1 and hang on until support arrives, but thats with little to no cc in the opposing group. But how many good groups have no cc? Especially in TPvP? Once in a blue moon.

A necro can hold or take a point better than a Guardian(s) if they manage to completely mess with boons and conditions in point fight and the enemy is relying on boons and conditions. All it takes is a Well of corruption, Blood, Power stack and Guardians etc. blindly charging in. If the necro and/or his team mitigates damage long enough (5-15) seconds, the enemy will usually exhaust everything and pretty much melt from bleed, confusion, burn, poison and vunerability stacks which were once their boons. Very situational though and relies on the opposing team being undisciplined/bad.

Necro damage is not efficient. Power based skill attacks that are high in dps are usually 1 target or unwieldy and do much less damage than counterparts in other classes. Condition damage by its nature is not efficient and instead is more for attrition based fights. Necro AoE suffers when enemies are spread out moreso than other AoE classes, but benefits more when enemies are initially close nit then spread out to avoid damage.

Kravick.4906:

Noctis.2738:

Better than other professions of course? What do they excel at? Because the last time I asked to some 80 Necros in game I was told they are not the best at anything. Other classes stack conditions better and Ele is better in AoE damage, they said.

This is all true, unfortunately. At one point you could argue that necros were the best at boon stripping, but not any more. The undisputed kings of boon stripping are now thieves after they buffed the sword 3 skill.

Mesmers have superior boon stripping. Although not widely used in pvp. They can provide perma boon strip in dungeons where bosses pulse restack boons.

Necromancers can be insane with AoE bleeds if they run an epidemic build. Necromancers also have something that is nearly unique in how well they can transfer conditions. Seriously, against a conditionmancer it is nigh impossible for another condition class to beat them, since the conditionmancers will just throw everything right back at them.

Necros also have a lot of stuns in an AoE instead of single target. Necromancers have great scaling with vitality due to life force generation, we arguably have the best pull in the game due to spectral grasp. Necromancers have the highest HP pool tied with warriors as well, and with Death Shroud this makes them have the highest statistical durability out of every class.

Necromancers can stack weakness and vulnerability pretty well. Spectral Wall, IMO, is a really awesome ability in WvW, since it allows you to give an entire zerg protection. This can determine the winner or loser of a zerg vs. zerg fight single-handed. Along that vein, necromancers are also the only class that has instantaneous and unblockable long-distance AoE attacks, which make them great at arms length. Necromancers can be decent healers, too, what with the ability to use two Well of Bloods (one on heal skill, one on revival), + healing with life transfer + permanent regen from the staff + good condition transferring abilities.

Necromancers also have the best dark combo fields in the game. Though dark fields aren’t super useful, since all they do is blind and life steal so make of that what you will. Necromancers also are the only class that has a lot of life stealing. While each individual steal isn’t much, when compounded together to the point of obscenity they become quite effective.

Balekai.6083:

2v1 Necro is possible if your not being cced to death. With my WvW support well/epidemic build in SPvP, I have gone 3-4 vs 1 and hang on until support arrives, but thats with little to no cc in the opposing group. But how many good groups have no cc? Especially in TPvP? Once in a blue moon.

A necro can hold or take a point better than a Guardian(s) if they manage to completely mess with boons and conditions in point fight and the enemy is relying on boons and conditions. All it takes is a Well of corruption, Blood, Power stack and Guardians etc. blindly charging in. If the necro and/or his team mitigates damage long enough (5-15) seconds, the enemy will usually exhaust everything and pretty much melt from bleed, confusion, burn, poison and vunerability stacks which were once their boons. Very situational though and relies on the opposing team being undisciplined/bad.

Necro damage is not efficient. Power based skill attacks that are high in dps are usually 1 target or unwieldy and do much less damage than counterparts in other classes. Condition damage by its nature is not efficient and instead is more for attrition based fights. Necro AoE suffers when enemies are spread out moreso than other AoE classes, but benefits more when enemies are initially close nit then spread out to avoid damage.

Actually if you have Foot in the Grave, the CC doesn’t bother as much.

Not necessarily, I almost never fail to take a point, or defend it on my Necro. I can easily 1v1 Guardians.

In tPvP, Wellmancers become extremely dangerous, especially when built properly. Against a good Wellmancer, you cannot stand on point unless you’re 100% tanky. That means all of the glass cannons have to leave the point, or be downed. That is a major advantage. However, I will agree that Condition Damage is not great, Necromancers are by far the worst at it too.

Well I guess I won’t make a Necro after all. I thought I would be proved wrong but the positive instances were Necro can shine seem situational.

The area denial of wells is not enough for tpvp, not with necro in it’s current state. Running with any more than 1 utility well will dent being able to carry Signet of Undeath or a stunbreaker. Both of which are esssential in tpvp.

At most, 6 seconds of area denial which could be totally negated by any of the auto-evade classes [ranger/thief/mesmer (y’know, all the under-represented pvp classes)]. Further, if you were unlucky enough to get foefire, your wells don’t cover enough ground to provide and area denial on a cap point.

We have nothing comparable to guardians ability to shrug off blind/burst spamming thieves, not with a well build you described

Noctis.2738:

Well I guess I won’t make a Necro after all. I thought I would be proved wrong but the positive instances were Necro can shine seem situational.

Not as situation as we would leave you to believe. The trick like all things is nuance and sometimes it’s not about if one class can do x better than another, but how all their abilities fit together as one whole packpage. Necromancers are good in 75%-90% of the games content and are the most fun (at least for me) to play, along with my Mesmer.

A big problem for necros has been the fact that everything has been balanced around necros being great at cc and having death shroud being some awsome second health bar/damage absorber, so we don’t “need” stability, stun breaker or mobility. The reality is our cc isn’t all that great and death shroud is one of the least effective damage absorbers/mitigators in the game.

The good news is that apparently Anet is addressing some key issues with Necros in the next balance patch. They’re going to be reworking our trait lines and reworking Death Shroud mechanics and skills so we fit that original vision. Hopefully it turns out well.

I’d totally agree with Bale, I enjoy my time on Necro the most out of maybe all classes I play, it just tends to get shelved when I’ve spent the last hour getting trolled by poorly played mid-ranks in hotjoin

We have an excellent assortment of condi transfers to dominate classes like engis and rangers if we come across a 1vs1. In a team fight setting, we excel when working with another condition class, especially an engineer. Using epidemic alongside our condition buddy can instantly massacre a team with the insane condition spread. Not to mention fear chains and corrupt boons are incredible for assaulting bunkers or boon heavy classes!

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Actually, we have superior AoE physical damage over time to any other class.

A Wellmancer outputs incredible AoE damage and utility that damages more effectively than any other class in the game.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

We also can tank extremely effectively utilizing Vampirism in PvE and WvW better than any other class save Ranger.

We can bunker as effectively as a Guardian.

A knight’s based Vampirism build with siphoning wells can prove very difficult to kill, mitigating constant damage.

A protection/well based Necromancer can survive a very long time. I can’t reveal the entire build (because he asked me not to) but a friend of mine named Spazza made a build that can bunker just as effectively as a Guardian can. If not better.

I would like you to meet my Grenade/Mines/bomb engineer.

can over DPS Wellomancer, and don’t have the handicap of having horrible Cooldown.

I can’t arg about your magical bunker build, because you won’t share it.

And I used to run a Knight Vampirism Necro in WvW with 2 wells. Sure during the few sec I had wells out and people inside, I would be tanky, but as soon as they were gone on CD, I would die pretty fast. Without wells, the vampirism isn’t strong enought to substain.

Especially since necro are focused hard in WvW, just like tPvP.

Noctis.2738:

Better than other professions of course? What do they excel at? Because the last time I asked to some 80 Necros in game I was told they are not the best at anything. Other classes stack conditions better and Ele is better in AoE damage, they said.

I think you need to specify the “where” of your question, and what you intend to do. Talking about “stacking conditions better”, is in itself situational and has totally different ramifications in solo PvE, dungeons, and PvP. Comparing the highest stack classes can obtain on a target dummy is totally niche.

You also need to specify the “why” of your question. I’ve played several classes and follow several forums and while the Necro forum seems to have more whining than most, it also has more statements to the effect that people love their Necros and prefer to play them when the goal is to have fun.

So is your goal to have fun? Is it to solo and do dungeons with friends? Is it to be a competitive PvP player? (Which is where a lot of the complaints come from.)

“Best” needs a context to be meaningful and without qualifications you’re going to get the answer that is essentially “solo against a target dummy” or “roaming in WvW”, in which case yes, there are classes that stack conditions better, etc.

Amazing sky divers and pretty good at soul searching.

But seriously, did anyone mention condition transfers? Pretty sure we have the most transfers in the game.

I can tag ppl like crazy in wvw!

even though there are lots of positive feedback up there, but u cant have most of them on your utilities bar at the same time.

you can either choose 1 of the good skills at one time.

imagine u have boon stripping skills, but the enemy might not have boons up all the time, and u will be wasting those skills in your bar.

transfer condition/clean condition, yes we can transfer condition and clean conditions, but the cool down for the wells are too long. of course we can trait it, but u will be wasting your points in other useless traits which is not related to your build, to get the reduce cool down.

to me, necro has something which is better than other classes, but have to be in a very specific build at one time only. not an all rounder. if not, necro is no different from what other classes can do…

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Noctis.2738:

Better than other professions of course? What do they excel at? Because the last time I asked to some 80 Necros in game I was told they are not the best at anything. Other classes stack conditions better and Ele is better in AoE damage, they said.

Actually, we have superior AoE physical damage over time to any other class. The only class in the game that can beat us in overall AoE physical damage would be Shatter Mesmer. We also have a huge amount of AoE utility and combo fields.

We also can tank extremely effectively utilizing Vampirism in PvE and WvW better than any other class save Ranger.

We can bunker as effectively as a Guardian.

We do everything quite well, however, we are definitely not great with conditions compared to other classes.

Trying to understand what that means ‘/w conditions’ : I think -so asking here to see if I am wrong- that Necromancer is the king of condition pressure. I use a tPvP condition build converted into WvW (so just add gear and now its full Rabid but I have a feeling that is not the best setup + duration food to reach 100% fear duration).

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|b.1h.h1k.8.1h.h5|6.1h.h1k|1b.716.1b.716.1b.716.1b.716.1b.716.1b.716|1b.9b.1b.9b.1b.9b.1b.9b.1b.9b.1b.9b|0.u467.a2.0.u49b|30.d|3r.48.3x.3w.4f|e

I got into a comfort zone of maximising chill up time and I role fear pretty much on CD…So I like to do the staff 2,3,4,5 as I move into melee range then DS and fear and chill, get out for staff 2 again and switch, bleeding pressure and now I role weakness with dagger and cripple with Sceptre 2…DS 4 is so much fun with the other guy is in a fear!

In any case what I am trying to improve in is pressure…pure unadulterated condition pressure and keep fear+chill+weakness+cripple rolling as long as possible…

…this thread reminds me of a kitten observation I saw made shortly after release that “Necros get 2 health bars so that they can die twice!”

But besides that, condition transfer/manipulation. Other classes may have better straight up removal; but Necros have options for turning enemy conditions back on them.

Speaking from a WvW perspective, the Necromancer is fairly effective in a zerg. Specifically, you have a ton of AoE skills and can dish out a very respectable amount of damage. The caveat is that the amount of success you will have as a Necromancer is directly proportional to the size of the group you travel with. The easier it is for you to hide in the crowd, which is the only real method of damage/cc mitigation the class has reliable access to, the more effective you will be. Reversely, put yourself in any situation where you are likely to be singled out, and you’re toast.

The Necromancer, then, despite being advertised as an attrition class, is really best played as an artillery class. You have tons of offensive potential, but no viable method of sustaining yourself in combat (as compared to other classes). That’s not to say that a Necromancer cannot function in other capacities, merely that if you’re looking to do anything else then there’s likely another class out there that can do a better job.

Necromancers tolerate conditions pretty well because of CC and the high natural Health. I know other professions have ways to clear conditions or avoid damage but Necro just eats it up.

Necromancer also has the most pets and they are much stronger and better behaved, now, than they were at release. Ranger has always had better control but mob violence has its own attractions.

In wvwvw, Necromancer has a more limited range of application but is very powerful within that range of tasks. The most powerful in large group play for me is as mobile condi-artillery where AoE can define a battle line working to hinder enemy movement on a field, or during a siege. Though it may not seem like a Necro is doing more than inconveniencing the enemy, you are forcing them to burn heals and condition cleanses so your high burst and dps allies can gank them.

If the downed state health is fixed, Necromancer will make one heck of a resilliant punching bag; practically a tank, or even a paladin-type job if healing is maximized a la MM-cleric.

We have the most access to fear.
We transfer conditions better then any one.

Burst range Aoe damage & cc, ranged fears, range area suppression (ground targetted wells), range boon stripping & converting (focus#5, well of corruption, corrupt boon), range burst dps (lich) or more area suppression (plague).

All those guardians running around so gaily without a fear in the world… we own you.

And up close we’ll cut you too.

Login.5102:

We have the most access to fear.
We transfer conditions better then any one.

While this is true, don’t Warriors have the best fear in the game at three seconds? Maybe 4 due to some trait I’m forgetting.

Seriously, Necromancers needs more fear and the axe needs to cleave.

Edit: Forgot Master of Terror.

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancers tolerate conditions pretty well because of CC and the high natural Health. I know other professions have ways to clear conditions or avoid damage but Necro just eats it up.

Necromancer also has the most pets and they are much stronger and better behaved, now, than they were at release. Ranger has always had better control but mob violence has its own attractions.

In wvwvw, Necromancer has a more limited range of application but is very powerful within that range of tasks. The most powerful in large group play for me is as mobile condi-artillery where AoE can define a battle line working to hinder enemy movement on a field, or during a siege. Though it may not seem like a Necro is doing more than inconveniencing the enemy, you are forcing them to burn heals and condition cleanses so your high burst and dps allies can gank them.

If the downed state health is fixed, Necromancer will make one heck of a resilliant punching bag; practically a tank, or even a paladin-type job if healing is maximized a la MM-cleric.

What? Pet better now then at release?

They actually does the exact same thing. They have always been better in tPvp, but in WvW they are so buggy, it’s terrible. It’s a shame, never saw anything like that in a game after liek what? 8 month?

Necromancer aren’t more recilient then any other bunker. The fact that we lack immunity/block/vigor/dodge/evade ect mean that our efficiency goes down the pipe when under focus fire. We also don’t have much substain heal, Death Shroud stopping any kind of healing.

I look forward to next patch, as they spoke about necro not being able to heal in DS, maybe they will do something about it.