Guild Wars 2

Y’know, I’ve played about 300 hours of necro(nothing compared to others here, i’ve only been going for 3 months) , about 2/3 of which were in PvP.
The majority of these hours I’ve been perfectly happy with my Necro, sure I would get torn apart by hammer warriors, shatter mesmers, thieves and rangers( though the last two i’ve finally got a hang of an are not much of a problem). I digress, my point is I felt necro was on par with other classes until i started frequenting the forums, where shortcomings I didn’t even know exist were brought to light (cast times, srsly?).
My fellow necro’s you have made me feel necro was utterly useless in this game, and you seem determined to instill this mentality in everyone and spread it throughout the forums. Never felt the lack of stability, condi application, mobility or even the cast times were a problem. It seems like people here are determined to cement the fact that necro is the worst. Just because necro’s are not meta, doesn’t mean we are worth kitten. Feels like people exaggerate a little.
Maybe part of why necro is unpopular (least played class) is the atmosphere in the forums.
I mean sure we could use a few tweaks here and there, but you make it seem like necro can’t make the difference in any atmosphere, be it PvP or PvE.
To conclude, what I’m trying to say is you shouldn’t come on here with things like, " I don’t have mobility to get away when i’m ganked 2v1" as if any other class would have… Every class has shortcomings that will be exposed.
A little more positivity would do us all alot of good, keep your head up high, go out there and make us necro’s proud!
Peace.
Edit: I kind of went off point here, I was just gonna talk about how you guys turned me from someone who was happy with necro to part of this sulking mob (a lovable, fluffy, at times funny mob
Edit 2: I was an Guild wars2 FB group the other day, a poll asking which class was most OP popped up, out of i believe several hundred people, 25% voted necro. An issue of L2P? Maybe, maybe not. Food for thought though.

What’s your point? Ignorance is bliss? Or are you trying to make it sound like the quality of a class is solely determined by the player’s attitude?
The shortcomings that are being pointed out on the forum are objectively argued, not knowing about them doesn’t make those issues any less real.
In PvE necros simply can’t bring the same team support as other classes while also doing the least amount of damage. This isn’t up for debate, it’s been tested and methematically proven. As for PvP, the reason necros aren’t part of the meta is because their poor defense makes them a liability.

MAN.9046:

“I don’t have mobility to get away when i’m ganked 2v1” as if any other class would have…

Yes actually, other classes can escape fights more easily, that is a fact.
And another fact is that the core defense of the class negates not just any healing but an entire trait line that is specifically dedicated to heals and siphons. That is a huge design flaw, and it’s been in the game for almost 3 years!

So tell me, why wouldn’t we complain about things like these? And where else should we do it if not on the official gw2 forum?

Vast majority of those posts aren’t aimed at you and are not adressed to you, at all. Why would they? You can’t change anything.
They’re adressed to Developers of the game, in a hope that once a year, they will visit our forum and read couple things. We know they do, we’re getting the Revenant.

Maybe you’d understand when the devs tell you to give feedback on any possible changes, you suggest changes, and either they don’t knowledge these suggestions or they make they make changes and it’s far from the ones we suggested. It’s been a tug-of-war situation for 3 years now and people are fed up especially that four hour specialization stream that slapped necromancer players in the face when they changed almost nothing. Why? “Necromancers are in a good spot.” I fully disagree with that statement. We have no team support, vigor, invulnerabilities, skills that allow stability or stun breaks. Almost every class available has skills that either match or are better than current skills necros have. No, not all of us are complaining, but it’s been proven that necromancers are at the bottom of almost everything in terms of viability or team support. Fix? Revenant.

MAN.9046:

An issue of L2P? Maybe, maybe not.

So just because you didn’t know that every single class is better than us, you think all these necros who talk about the shortcomings of our profession, don’t know how to play?

Really?

Wow he dares to post L2play to the entire necro comminity, even tho he agree that he played 300hours of necro

So u get killed by hammer wars, shatter mes, thiefs and rangers.
I don’t know, there isn’t much left that u don’t get killed by.
And If u haven’t felt the cast time problem combined with the lack of stability in a team fight- I have no clue what ur saying here because u just stated hammer wars tore u apart
It’s not much of asking us about L2P it’s more of us asking u- wtf have u been fighting?

Its fairly common for players who only play necro to not realise the faults. Its also fairly common for them to spew “L2P, necro is fine” which i find incredibly ironic coming from players that love to remain willfully ignorant. Its hardly surprising. Ignorance is bliss. But as soon as you start to seriously play other classes these problems come to light even without frequenting the forums.

When I had played 3 months I still thought necro was the best thing ever. My views on that have now changed of course. The forums did not make me come to the conclusion I did, it was playing the game and trying all the other classes in different game modes that made it quite clear how inferior necro is.

A good attitude is not going to change the flaws of our class. There are of course some scenarios where a necro is good, but generally speaking it’s in a bad place compared to every other class.

There are several missconception in your thread, but, some of what you say have roots in the comon believes.

The huge wave of complaint we got actually on the necromancer’s forum ain’t a learn to play issue. It’s complaint that come from a community that’s already mastered all classes, love the gloomy theme of the Necromancer and is pretty much tired of the design limitations that block this profession.

There are powerfull mechanisms in game that are denied or very limited for the necromancer :

- Combo : very few combo finisher and some of them have a really bad design (blast on minion for exemple). The most unpopular combo field cripple the necromancer’s utility due to the fact that these utility become an hindrance in teamplay.

- Mobility : The issue here come from the “in combat” mobility meaning that this classe is the only one that most likely won’t be able to reset a match.

- Block/evade : Active block and evasion are the most powerfull defense mean in game. Necromancer’s have been designed so that they won’t have acces to them but in exchange, they can use Death shroud to suck up damage. On the paper, it’s OK, especially if you base your judgement on 1v1 fight. The issue is that this game is not a solo game where you just duel anything. The issue is that mobs/boss don’t have base damage/mechanism on par with a solo player. In short DS as a defensive mean can suck up a short to long periode of a solo player damage but will be totally underwhelming against large hit or outnumbered situation (this, while other defensive mean shine).

- Stability the low acces to stability and the lack of active defense make Necromancer especially weak to any kind of Crowd controle ability. Though they tried to correct this with the changes on FitG.

- Cleave : Cleaving effect are really usefull in the game but the necromancer have been cursed with pierces effects.

- Sustain : The issue with necromancer sustain is that it’s extremly hard to balance. Necromancer’s sustain come from “siphon” and “life force generation”. If you look at the theoric health gained from these 2 sources, Necromancers are god among men. Except that these 2 mechanisms fight each other to the point that in the end almost 2 traitline suffer from this, ended up to being underwhelming.

- Special mechanism : The Death shroud is the necromancer’s special mechanism. It’s a mechanism that, in the end, have to fill way to many roles. And, for me it’s DS major issue. Defence, offense, support… you can’t give all these rôle to 1 and only one mechanism. In the end the Death shroud have been set up in a shape that would have to answer all these rôle at the same time but without being able to be good at any of these role. This very shape is an issue on itself.
Life blast : a mid range powerfull attack. Seem good, no? except that it’s neither good at range nor at melee. (Not to say that it miss a lot lately)
Dark path : A mobility skill. Good, ain’kitten except that you and other player can outrun the projectile, it need a target, may be block by tiny land texture… etc.

- Attrition : This is something really recurent, peeps see the necromancer as the attrition profession. The main issue here is that giving a rôle to a profession simply go against the policy of the game. Any profession can fill any role in game. Beside, Necromancer ain’t better at attrition than other classes.

Well… it’s getting a bit long, so I’ll leave the rest to others. But In short, Necromancers are good on the paper, they even have overpowered skills and mechanisms on the paper. Alas, if they are perfectly balanced for small scale, non-organized pvp situation, but that’s all.

MAN.9046:

To conclude, what I’m trying to say is you shouldn’t come on here with things like, " I don’t have mobility to get away when i’m ganked 2v1" as if any other class would have…

That’s precisely what most classes can do actually.
Please, do play a couple of other classes like Ele and Engi for a few weeks and see how it is for yourself.

As my friend puts it. If you think necromancer is “Fine” you are still new to the game, as you don’t know your enemy very well, and how much better they are at almost every other thing. You bring nothing to groups, and your role in pvp is laughable at best.

Even the most necromancerish skill the minions like to stand around and do nothing a lot of the time.

So at the end of the day, the class is buggy, not well thought out, and is the worse class in GW history.

I played gw1 and I am a newer player to 2. Even I can see the flaws of the class. In fact, I regret getting gw2 because of it, as I love necromancer type style, but the state this class is in, they should feel ashamed.

Guys guys he is right with his “L2P” directed at us after nearly 3 years.

Even the Jon Peters said it:

http://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/pvp/I-play-a-necro-but-I-traid-a-warrior-for-one-play-session/first#post115247

http://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/pvp/I-play-a-necro-but-I-traid-a-warrior-for-one-play-session/page/2#post116878

/s

Thanks for the laugh I needed that

this was a joke right?

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Thanks for the laugh I needed that

this was a joke right?

OP is obviously a master troll that can fool even the necro forums xD

Nature of the forums…

Besides, is it that weird to tell people the truth about a profession? Granted, a lot exaggerate or have false claims – but the major gist of it is that the Necromancer in this game is a mere shade of the glorious profession it was in it’s predecessor, and it has been like this for three years…

People have the right to complain about factual flaws, as do they have the right to inform others about the profession when asked

spoj.9672:

Its fairly common for players who only play necro to not realise the faults. Its also fairly common for them to spew “L2P, necro is fine” which i find incredibly ironic coming from players that love to remain willfully ignorant. Its hardly surprising. Ignorance is bliss. But as soon as you start to seriously play other classes these problems come to light even without frequenting the forums.

^Pretty much this, if you only play necro then it will be okay to you I main thief and I’m decent on all classes necro is competitively weaker to others. If they wanted DS to really be a second HP bar and a 3rd swap we wouldn’t start empty,self heals and utilities would be usable while it’s active. Jon contradicted his own words if it’s so strong why is it not used much in high tiers,he recognized that the meta is anti condition yet boon hate is still weak to boon generation and they are about to add kitten resistance, if it’s such a strong and skillful mechanic where is the high reward??

Sagat.3285:

Jon contradicted his own words if it’s so strong why is it not used much in high tiers,he recognized that the meta is anti condition yet boon hate is still weak to boon generation and they are about to add kitten resistance, if it’s such a strong and skillful mechanic where is the high reward??

That other thread is over two years old. Nothing he said applies today (btw his post says “condition heavy meta”).
Anyway, apparently non of us have mastered DS yet despite all of the UI upgrades, improved traits, doubled lf pool and the addition of Tainted Shackles. L2P, guys!!

I’ve played my necromancer for 1,813 hours. I’ve played my Mesmer for 442 hours. Guardian 255 hours. Engineer 535 hours. In total I’ve played 3,037 hours. A few of those hours are scattered between other professions I play less frequently and deleted characters. Out of all my main characters I’ve played almost as much on my guardian as you have played on your necromancer. And I’ve played 6 times the time you have on my necromancer and more on my engineer and mesmer.

With my time on the necromancer all of her skill rotations for me has become second nature to me. I have a great passive awareness of her cool downs as well as multiple combos I can pull off to avoid damage and pressure. But even with how good I am on my necromancer and how much more I understand about the profession then even my second most played, engineer, I have a far easier time surviving, dealing damage, escaping and overall supporting my allies with my other avatars.

I feel like a novice when it comes to mesmer. There is still allot I need to learn and I love that profession. But even with my lack of skill on a mesmer I far out preform while using my mesmer then I can on my necromancer.

flow.6043:

Sagat.3285:

Jon contradicted his own words if it’s so strong why is it not used much in high tiers,he recognized that the meta is anti condition yet boon hate is still weak to boon generation and they are about to add kitten resistance, if it’s such a strong and skillful mechanic where is the high reward??

That other thread is over two years old. Nothing he said applies today (btw his post says “condition heavy meta”).
Anyway, apparently non of us have mastered DS yet despite all of the UI upgrades, improved traits, doubled lf pool and the addition of Tainted Shackles. L2P, guys!!

It still makes no sense this a boon meta so add another one?? Resistance should have back then not now never now, yes it’s old but they have no evidence of positive results of DS just us if anything a condition that negate boon effects primarily found used by necro should been here. I do wonder if they still think we need to L2P…you know what they should make a PvP 101 about necro.

Edit: Add quickness to the list…slow on necro…

Judging by his past messages, I don’t think he’s a troll. He oozes negative influenced picked up by attitudes on the forums. Maybe it’s a long-view troll, but that sounds like such a waste of time that I can’t believe a human being would do that just for this weak of an actual troll.

Regardless, I do think the attitude around here is pretty bad in general. Any little thing that might be considered good is covered by a multitude in a sea of what is still bad, or why it wouldn’t work, or how it doesn’t measure up to some other class.

And no, I don’t think any historical treatment or class-state is justification for being a salty Sally. If you do, then congratulations, you’ve ascended to “Bitter Old Man” status, blaming your lot in life on everyone else instead of taking responsibility and picking yourself up by your own bootstraps. It’s a waste of time to be grousey, in my opinion.

That being said, Necro could use some changes, but it’s also the class I’ve easily had the most fun on, and it isn’t close. Part of that is probably the feeling of challenge in making it “work”. But the aesthetic, the sounds, the variation in builds I can run that feel completely different (even just Power vs. Condi).

Sometimes you’ll do something in-game, it’ll work for you, and if you mention it here they’ll tell you all of the reasons why what you’re doing is bad. Either the opponents are bad, the traits aren’t optimal, the gear isn’t optimal, etc. MMO forums are often poisonous and elitist, and they very often forget that a very large percentage of people are just playing casually. The world is different for a casual player.

And the casual player has to also understand the world is different for the player who is pushing the class to its limit competitively against other competitive players.

Cogbyrn.7283:

And no, I don’t think any historical treatment or class-state is justification for being a salty Sally. If you do, then congratulations, you’ve ascended to “Bitter Old Man” status, blaming your lot in life on everyone else instead of taking responsibility and picking yourself up by your own bootstraps. It’s a waste of time to be grousey, in my opinion.

Yes, let me just claim responsibility for all of these design decisions I didn’t make, and that I am currently trying to change.

MAN.9046:

<snip>
An issue of L2P? Maybe, maybe not. Food for thought though.

Tread carefully, you’re talking to people much more experienced and with a much greater understanding of GW2, necro and other professions than you from what I gather from your post.

By much I mean a few orders of magnitude.

Ohh… wait, Jon Peters, is that you?

I’m actually making the transition from Necromancer main to Mesmer main. I’ve still got allot to learn but I’m enjoying it. I like being able to throw down a reflect wall, stealth allies and res them while quickly being able to blink out of combat. Also stripping stacks of defiance in seconds is nice too. Sure, when I take damage as a mesmer I get wreaked just a bit harder then I do a necromancer. But thats if I get hit at all.

Personally, I’m not switching mains out of spite like some people on the forums. I’m switching because as a necromancer I feel like a blight on my party. I just want to be able to support in the way only the necromancer could back in GW1 and that play style just doesn’t exist. So I’m taking what I enjoy the second most and thats the tricksy play style of the mesmer.

Not to mention the Zerg lord play style that I seriously miss from GW1. The Minion master in GW2 just doesn’t compare at all. Everything just feels worse. Sure I have fun sometimes, but its just not what I wanted from the necromancer. And hoping we’d get our various problems fixed while also getting back old play styles that don’t exist anymore I’m just tired of waiting.

Revenant might be another option as my new main, but for the time being mesmer is my choice. Revenant looks like it can provide the play style that necromancers used to have and if they do, then I see no reason to play as a necromancer.

On an ending note, the Guild wars 2 necromancer wasn’t made for Guild Wars 1 necromancer mains. It was made for the WoW players who mained warlock. When I describe necromancer from GW1 to WoW players they said it sounded like a death knight. Maybe it was like that. I don’t know. Either way, the GW2 Necromancer just isn’t for me and I’m not going to try and recapture that amazing feeling I got from the GW1 necromancer anymore.

So I’ll start with OP, I totally understand where you are coming from: the community on these internet forums spill anger and hate towards arena net at an unhealthy speed. In fact, one week hanging around the forums would probably be enough to convince a developer that a group of necro-lovers is going to show up outside his door with pitchforks and torches! The necro community often focuses on the negative without proposing positive feedback.

That being said. The Necro community might be angry, but we are not delusional. Necro is not in a good place comparative to other classes. I play extensively necromancer, engineer, and elementalist. In addition I have logged over 200 hours in a thief and have started learning mesmer over the past few weeks.

Necromancers are simply weaker in quite a few regards. I couldn’t agree more with the post that is quoted below. (I snipped it because it was very long so go reread his).

Dadnir.5038:

There are several missconception in your thread, but, some of what you say have roots in the comon believes.

snip

In PvE I always feel downright guilty for bringing my necromancer when compared to the numbers that I can see (at very large amounts of ease btw) on my staff elementalist.

I can’t speak much to WvW because I don’t play T1 and haven’t been involved heavily in guilds that work with large groups. From a roaming standpoint I always end up bringing my engineer instead of my necromancer. They can apply the same condition pressure but with an insane increase to mobility and survivability due to gear shield and elixir kit (granted these are things people debate about fairness, but they have existed in their current state for a long time).

In pvp I play necromancer most. While I think we could use some love, where I am at in my skill level I do all right. When I get things handed to me I can usually figure out some things I needed to do better. On occasion I come accross a pro who really knows all classes in side and out and picks me apart. While frustrating, that level of knowledge I simply don’t have and I think a little bit of L2P is always present. We as players can always do better and should strive to that.

Having said that, I don’t think our position at the highest end of the competitive spectrum is in a fair place. Right now you have one necro performing well in tournaments (Nos). In opening team fights more often than not we are the correct opening target due to our lack of DS.

I as well am angry and here is the biggest reason I think to most necromancers, although it hasn’t been said yet in the thread. We feel ignored and have a past history of glaring issues in our class go long periods of time undealt with.

I believe in class equality. Specifically I believe that classes should have things built with thematic elements in mind first, then brought up to norm in terms of traits and such (which is just as important don’t misread me). I believe that there should be just as much time invested by developers in each classes and in some cases more to help bring under performing classes up to par.

Now here is the important part. Underperforming, not underplayed. I think we as a community are okay that most people don’t pick a necromancer as their first class. I think we would be completely fine if there was an extremely high skill ceiling and through mastery alone certain mechanics allowed you performance (think sword/torch Mesmers. that kitten is hard). But currently it doesn’t feel like we are a blimp on their radar towards fixing important problems we have faced since launch (I actually think pve is the most offensive of these).

From a Design standpoint what John said has absolute merit. Different classes are designed with a skill cap. Some classes and mechanics require much more thought to connect the dots on how it was fully designed to play, while some classes have specs such as pew pew rangers that allow users to create a spec and almost faceroll into effectiveness in the mists.

I don’t see this as poor design. It helps keep gamers of different interest levels and ability seem relative to the game. Because the most important thing is having fun, right? The problem lies that necromancers glaring flaws don’t allow us to become as effective as some of the higher level builds. In no universe are we going to replace shoutbow, cele rifle, d/d ele, or d/p thieves any time soon.

none of those roles can we effectively compete with and bring better (or even similiar) levels of support to the mix. So as a community we have to ask, what is our place?

Arena-Net, what is our place? And if our specialization is our hope are we shoehorned into taking it to become relevant?

TLDR: we need to play nice, but let’s not be blind to glaring problems.

Sorry for the rant.

One Big problem we have that isn’t so obvious with other professions is our predictability. We as necromancers are incredibly predictable and its not a fault of skill on any of our parts. A good player can watch us go into death shroud and pop a few CCs to completely destroy us. The can also accurately predict all of our skills since all 5 skills are the same and don’t change much based on traits. This means that if a player knows what they are doing its easy to counter. If you as a necromancer know how predictable Death shroud is you can offset a bit of that weakness, but not by much. Your options go way down when you enter death shroud.

Its like playing a game of poker with your hand revealed the entire game. No bluffing, everyone knows exactly what you have. All your cards are on the table while everyone is still hidden. Now there is something that could help us, and thats letting us have access to our utility, heal and elite while in death shroud. How that would work isn’t so sure. But this would give us the ability to offset allot of that predictability.

You have not reached high level play pvp yet. And you either have casualfriendly guild or do not pug speed runs.

edumacate yoself

leman.7682:

MAN.9046:

<snip>
An issue of L2P? Maybe, maybe not. Food for thought though.

Tread carefully, you’re talking to people much more experienced and with a much greater understanding of GW2, necro and other professions than you from what I gather from your post.

By much I mean a few orders of magnitude.

Ohh… wait, Jon Peters, is that you?

Why does he need to tread carefully? This is an MMO forum for everyone.

He may be wrong or not know as much (300 hours is a very short time), but pulling the “I/We know more than you cause time” card is intellectually lazy via ad hominems.

Sometimes it can be a learn to play issue when it comes to using DS appropriately for example. Sometimes people don’t explore builds other than glass cannon power builds in pvp/wvw because its necro meta and wonder why they can’t 2v1 with glass cannon builds (aka when time played becomes useless after a while since class experience becomes limited to one type of play). Sometimes people make logical fallacies when they compare our skills to other classes to say they’re better at something. Sometimes people just join the chorus of negativity because its the majority view. There can be so much negativity on these forums that any clear and mostly agreed on changes get lost in the mix. Or a million different, mostly over the top suggestions for simple problems are given due to the depressed mentality.

Which honestly isn’t helped by Anet. The reason why so many feel the class is so broken is because Anet fails time and time again to address core issues that are fairly easy to fix, but they refuse to implement the easy solutions and balance from there.

My opinion is that in pvp, it can be very hard to kill an experienced necro if you’re not experienced yourself (where that 25% unscientific poll result derives from for class OPness). However, once the experience is on par with one another or in top tier pvp with experienced team synergy/communication, there’s a technical ceiling to all necro builds due to general underpowerness, traits being too split among trait lines, and our attrition (DS, Siphons) not performing as intended compared to our lack of mobility, boons and active defense availability.

Our PvE problems are mostly due to mob/encounter design and the meta that evolved from it. Also our lack of active/buffing team support. The more PvE design moves in the direction of the Silverwastes, the better off we will be. It can also be fixed by giving us more cleave options, removing the condi cap and giving Necros valuable team support to fit the current and likely future meta.

Whether the gap between Necros and other professions is really that big (or in some cases, real) is up for debate. So is how much it would take to close the gap without falling short or making us too over the top.

Lily.1935:

I’ve played my necromancer for 1,813 hours. I’ve played my Mesmer for 442 hours. Guardian 255 hours. Engineer 535 hours. In total I’ve played 3,037 hours. A few of those hours are scattered between other professions I play less frequently and deleted characters. Out of all my main characters I’ve played almost as much on my guardian as you have played on your necromancer. And I’ve played 6 times the time you have on my necromancer and more on my engineer and mesmer.

With my time on the necromancer all of her skill rotations for me has become second nature to me. I have a great passive awareness of her cool downs as well as multiple combos I can pull off to avoid damage and pressure. But even with how good I am on my necromancer and how much more I understand about the profession then even my second most played, engineer, I have a far easier time surviving, dealing damage, escaping and overall supporting my allies with my other avatars.

I feel like a novice when it comes to mesmer. There is still allot I need to learn and I love that profession. But even with my lack of skill on a mesmer I far out preform while using my mesmer then I can on my necromancer.

/thread

Discussion over. OP, this is pretty much where most of us are at. It isn’t all hysteria and negativity feeding. There are serious issues with the class that aren’t all subjective.

Balekai.6083:

leman.7682:

MAN.9046:

<snip>
An issue of L2P? Maybe, maybe not. Food for thought though.

Tread carefully, you’re talking to people much more experienced and with a much greater understanding of GW2, necro and other professions than you from what I gather from your post.

By much I mean a few orders of magnitude.

Ohh… wait, Jon Peters, is that you?

Why does he need to tread carefully? This is an MMO forum for everyone.

He may be wrong or not know as much (300 hours is a very short time), but pulling the “I/We know more than you cause time” card is intellectually lazy via ad hominems.

I did never pull the ‘time’ argument. I did however understand from his post that he’s a casual player whose perspective on the game just isn’t full. What I mean by that? Well, I never do this, but I feel called out.

I have 4000 hours played on my necro, over 5000 PvP games and over 4000 ranked games on this profession only. I’m telling him, that his thinking, the way he explains his point of view is grossly disjointed from the real picture of the profession.
My ranked MMR places me in matches with and against top players on EU. I’ve never really stopped playing. I know the meta. I know how it changed over time. And I’m telling you that currently, the state of necro is just horrible in top PvP (PvE just as much). One argument I like to make is that when I rarely go WvW and roam, I can kill pretty much everyone that attacks me without using my utilities and heal and with them wasting all stun-breaks, utilities and elite. I know these are WvW players, so not exactly the top level of skill, but this shows how different of an experience people may have. I understand this difference.

As a necro on the only viable spec in PvP which is power, you get hard-countered by:
shoutbows, thieves, shatter mesmers, medi guards, power rangers, cele rifle, condi eng, staff ele, and a few more based on average circumstances.

These specs are the current meta. It is rare to see something else. If there is one build from outside of this pool in a ranked match, consider yourself lucky. In a standard teamfight, necro gets focused by a blinking party of thieves, guardians and mesmers. You can’t really duel anything of the above without taking a huge risk of dying and/or wasting time.
There are naturally a plethora of other problems like the Life Force pool sustainability in difficult matches, being perma cc’d by in teamfights (eng/ranger/warrior/thief immobs, fear me, wolf fear, rifle knockbacks, PBS – you are literally an obligatory target for all of those), poor mobility/evasion, and more.

The perception of balance may be okay on the low-to-medium level. On the high level, necro is a laughing stock, a free target, a ‘downed necro best necro’.

I have played 5k hours on necro & I agree, we aren’t that bad, people just keep on complaining about everything that goes, asking for stuff to change, bla bla..
The only thing I’d like is regen in deathshroud, but with the 3 trait line changes I will have that anyway so I’m happy. This forum is overly depressing, complain when there’s no need to

Lol dang. Read the first post here and thought “Hey look at that, a positive post on the necro forums lol.” In the next few minutes looking through the comments it was almost laughable to see how many negative posts there were on a thread trying to get people into a better attitude lol. X3

Falcon.8713:

I have played 5k hours on necro & I agree, we aren’t that bad, people just keep on complaining about everything that goes, asking for stuff to change, bla bla..
The only thing I’d like is regen in deathshroud, but with the 3 trait line changes I will have that anyway so I’m happy. This forum is overly depressing, complain when there’s no need to

Read my post above to understand why there IS a reason and a need to complain about the current state.

Falcon.8713:

I have played 5k hours on necro
..
This forum is overly depressing, complain when there’s no need to

I think the bigger shocker here is that someone with 5k hours experience doesn’t see how most complaints on this forum are very reasonable.

Moonlit.6421:

… it was almost laughable to see how many negative posts there were on a thread trying to get people into a better attitude lol. X3

Except the opening post wasn’t about lifting spirits but pointing out that we’re drama queens and maybe just need to l2p.

Falcon.8713:

This forum is overly depressing, complain when there’s no need to

First of all, if there were no reasons to complain or discuss – no one would be here on the forums…

Second of all – strange how a large majority seems to have issues… Must be a player issue for sure

Third – People are actually not just overly depressed, they make valid complaints with interesting bullet points… Only an average of 1/5th is a false claim with some nonsense, but every profession has those people

I should actually not care… I barely do anything whenever I log in anymore simply because I do not feel like doing anything… But at least respect people

I think the problem is that, for the most part, it doesnt MATTER that necro is worse dps. (At least not with the current dungeons).

In most cases, the difference between any two groups for clearing a dungeon is TIME and nothing else. And for most people, the difference between a 30 minute fractal and a 50 minute fractal isnt that huge if they’re having fun. So yeah, necros are no where on par objectivley, its just that most ppl usually dont care in PVE. The problem comes in for people who DO care about how long runs take, or if the upcoming content becomes more difficult / time critical. Also there is an aspect of pvp balance that needs to be taken into account. In pve, the question is simply “can any 5 people clear content” and the answer is yes. In pvp the question becomes “can any 5 people make a fair and fun group such that winners and losers come down to skill, not class”

leman.7682:

One argument I like to make is that when I rarely go WvW and roam, I can kill pretty much everyone that attacks me without using my utilities and heal and with them wasting all stun-breaks, utilities and elite. I know these are WvW players, so not exactly the top level of skill, but this shows how different of an experience people may have. I understand this difference.

Roaming in WvW is sort of like taking everyone who plays sPvP, whether it’s unranked/ranked/hotjoin, and randomly distributing them throughout a bunch of hotjoin servers. Most likely your experience is going to be ‘Man, sPvPers are bad’, until you get the few people who actually demonstrate they know how the game works. Add in food and higher damage on zerker, and it’s basically a different game.

Speaking of different experiences, sometimes I jump into sPvP just for the refreshing difference in how much damage Thieves can dish out instantly if you aren’t lucky/ultra careful. It’s like a fun little “I don’t die nearly as quickly here” playground for me, except if an interrupt Mesmer joins the game and focuses me or something, though those haven’t ever existed roaming out in WvW, so I just have no experience fighting them.

It’s always nice to get the top-tier competitive perspective on a class, and classes should be able to compete in the top-tier of competition in sPvP, in my opinion. However, it’s a really awkward position to be in when Necros seem to be regarded as really weak in PvE/top tier sPvP, but really strong in WvW (roaming, zerging, GvG, you name it) and lower-tier sPvP.

That being said, I really hope they at least streamline mechanics to make DS not conflict with specializations/etc. A class at odds with itself is poorly designed, no matter how you slice it.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Falcon.8713:

This forum is overly depressing, complain when there’s no need to

First of all, if there were no reasons to complain or discuss – no one would be here on the forums…

Second of all – strange how a large majority seems to have issues… Must be a player issue for sure

Third – People are actually not just overly depressed, they make valid complaints with interesting bullet points… Only an average of 1/5th is a false claim with some nonsense, but every profession has those people

This. And if you look at my post I agree we are very negative and often toxic. It’s a little hard to not feel that way after issues we have dealt with since launch. However, sifting through the negativity you can actually find good ideas. I think the pvp forum post that has continually gone on has some excellent and creative ideas in it. You just need to dig through a bunch of negative kitten to find it.

To simply say that there is no problems however is ignorant.

Moonlit.6421:

Lol dang. Read the first post here and thought “Hey look at that, a positive post on the necro forums lol.” In the next few minutes looking through the comments it was almost laughable to see how many negative posts there were on a thread trying to get people into a better attitude lol. X3

^This.

I want to thank all of you or proving the OP’s point (or most of you, you know who you are). S/he just wants everyone to be a little more positive and try to have fun with this class, but you guys responded with “No, we are completely justified in our negativity, now I’m going to explain to you all the reasons why you’re stupid and my opinion is more valid than yours and you should hate necro just as much as I do.” Whether or not any of your points are true I’m not doing to debate (I’m simply not that kind of player), but the fact that everyone here is SO NEGATIVE about the necromancer (or anyone who dares to question how bad the necro is) is on full display here.

@MoJoe Everyone has their own limits and don’t expect a white knight to be worshipped when this is the best opportunity on sight for significant changes after years of misunderstanding. If this fails it will most likely happen in another 3 years that fear was created by the devs and fuels the “negativity” of necros. Sure it’s a casual game but that can’t even be considered as an excuse.