Guild Wars 2

I’m looking around for information on tank Necromancers, and EVERYONE seems to swear by using a Focus in the offhand, instead of a Dagger. It seems to me that the condition removal and Weakness application on the offhand Dagger would be far, far more useful, but EVERYONE says to use Focus, not just as an “it’s better than Dagger” thing, but as an “OH MY LORD FOCUS IS AMAZING I LOVE IT SO MUCH” thing. Why on earth is this? What am I missing? Is it just for the Regeneration?

Pretty sure focus is best for GC power necs.

Yup, leetos build is labeled as “survival dps” just cz off-hand dagger gives such a good condi cleanse.

For glass-canons, focus is very good. Again, the #4 shines, its a mini backstab at close range + life force.

I ran focus, the chills on I think #5 is nice because you are doing -66% to movement and skills CD. The #4 offers vulnerability to “X” amount of targets and I think it also stacks 4 or 5 times (its been awhile since I used my focus). Its not bad especially if you are a vulnerability spamming necro with epidemic and I would suggest using condi-duration.

Focus 4 does pretty dirty damage if it bounces 3 times on the same target.

Because Focus 4 is good for stacking vulnerablity.

Interestingly is, if i only use autoattacks, my dps with offhand dagger seems a little higher than with focus offhand (tested it on the golems in the mists). Which is strange as the weapondamage of offhands shouldnt effect the the 1-3 skills…

As a Tanky Minion Master I prefer the focus over dagger/warhorn for the reason that Its skills work for me better than the ladder.

The focus 4 gives a VERY useful vuneribility so minion will hit just a little bit harder, and should it bounce to a minion they get a much needed heal.

Focus 5, has that boon rip which wich is AMAZING, in PvE, enemies rarely get more than 3 boons so that takes it right away and its chill keeps things from running away, add that to the golems cripple, people are useally forced into a fight.

Now here is how I feel about the other skills

Warhorn – Warhorn 5 has a swiftness and a PBAoE cripple, that cripple is more or less what I like seeing, but since I have a main hand dagger I have dark pact + rigormortis + charge + golem’s cripple on auto so being able to stick to people is not a problem. So I dont need that swiftness and cripple. Should they manage to run out of it Dark path and/or Spinal shivers help get more right back to them.

Warhorn 4 is an Cone daze. With good positioning I can turn a Charge into a devistating AoE knockdown. So I can “replace” this skill wih my minions.
Thats my arument against Warhorn

Dagger, 4 is a conditon transfer and blind. if I have conditions I use staff 4 or just wait them out (im very tanky) and I can live without blind because I have meat sheilds
Dagger 5 is an AoE bleed and weakness. Once again I can eat alot of damage so I can live without weakness. I also have 0 condtion damage so those bleeds arent much xD

Those are why I(minion Master) use a focus over other weapons

Well to be fair all offhands are viable for power necros in pvp. In pve focus is probably better than the others because of the vulnarability stacking.

Really like your explanation, Jake, thank you.

Thank you to everyone else, as well, of course. :P

Damage, boon strips and life force gen. The regen and vulnerability don’t hurt either.

Warhorn is too close range and the come sometimes misses when I am sure it should hit. I like dagger but it doesn’t help generate life force at all.

Got to hand it to Locust Swarm on Warhorn, though. Potential gain of 100% life force from it untraited over its full duration (2% per hit, 5 targets hit with each pulse, 10 pulses). With Gluttony and Banshee’s Wail, it’s potentially 143% life force from one skill (would be 165% if Banshee’s Wail functioned properly with it). The best use is to use it, then hop into death shroud.

I’m a GC necro that uses dagger/wh + dagger/focus.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m07asKI8VE

I use to use d/w + a/f for tanking. d/f + a/d for dps outside of death shroud builds, and a/f or a/d + staff when using a dps death shroud build. In death shroud, life blast only takes in to account your main hand for it’s damage.
But alas, gw2 sucks now, in my eyes, too boring, too repetative, too lame in pve.

Well there is no such thing as best weapon overall. There is just best weapons for certain things.
Focus is great it has burst, life generation, boon removal and regen.
But there is 2 reasons why is use dagger in my power build.
1. My build has enough dmg cause its glass cannon, i have passive spinal shivers in build, i already has enough ways to generate life force, BUT it lacks survibility and is weak against CC cause i use dagger. Offhand dagger provide both these things, you can play PVP 2 ways, just max one thing and try to get cheesy kills when people dont counter you OR make overall balanced build that is hard to be countered but need more work to get kills, so dagger is my preference utility wise.
If i would play with different traits or amulet and my build would lack damage i would consider focus more.
2. But the MAIN reason. You look cool as f! There is no point in killing people if you dont look cool while doing it.
Look good.
Feel good.
Play good.

Dagger is soooo much better than the other choices.

You are dead if you get immobilized and you need every available condition clear. Even if your team isnt condition based, the dagger can spread your poison from corrupt boon. Plus dagger 5 really gimps people and has a huge AoE.

Focus is just so boring. I guess it gives dagger users some range and boon removal. Warhorn has the mostly useless 4 and the overrated 5.

Seriously, go dagger. No reason not to.

Muchacho.2390:

Because Focus 4 is good for stacking vulnerablity.

Interestingly is, if i only use autoattacks, my dps with offhand dagger seems a little higher than with focus offhand (tested it on the golems in the mists). Which is strange as the weapondamage of offhands shouldnt effect the the 1-3 skills…

Auto attacks are a culmination of attack power and weapon dps, so yes having an offhand dagger will net you higher autos because daggers have higher base weapon damage than focus. However, the vulnerability, along with the multiple bounces will make your overall dps higher using a focus over time as compared to a d/d setup.

Druss.6917:

Muchacho.2390:

Because Focus 4 is good for stacking vulnerablity.

Interestingly is, if i only use autoattacks, my dps with offhand dagger seems a little higher than with focus offhand (tested it on the golems in the mists). Which is strange as the weapondamage of offhands shouldnt effect the the 1-3 skills…

Auto attacks are a culmination of attack power and weapon dps, so yes having an offhand dagger will net you higher autos because daggers have higher base weapon damage than focus. However, the vulnerability, along with the multiple bounces will make your overall dps higher using a focus over time as compared to a d/d setup.

Attack power has no effect on the damage you do. It is a completely useless stat that has no effect in game. Its not used in any formula in game as far as we know.

@Muchacho
Offhands dont change your damage. I assume you didnt use steady weapons when testing or you had some traits. Because the damage is exactly the same if you do use steady weapons and have no traits or amulet. The change in damage must of been natural variance.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Druss.6917:

Muchacho.2390:

Because Focus 4 is good for stacking vulnerablity.

Interestingly is, if i only use autoattacks, my dps with offhand dagger seems a little higher than with focus offhand (tested it on the golems in the mists). Which is strange as the weapondamage of offhands shouldnt effect the the 1-3 skills…

Auto attacks are a culmination of attack power and weapon dps, so yes having an offhand dagger will net you higher autos because daggers have higher base weapon damage than focus. However, the vulnerability, along with the multiple bounces will make your overall dps higher using a focus over time as compared to a d/d setup.

Attack power has no effect on the damage you do. It is a completely useless stat that has no effect in game. Its not used in any formula in game as far as we know.

@Muchacho
Offhands dont change your damage. I assume you didnt use steady weapons when testing or you had some traits. Because the damage is exactly the same if you do use steady weapons and have no traits or amulet. The change in damage must of been natural variance.

I wouldn’t consider myself well versed in damage formulas, but I’m fairly certain AP plays some role in auto attacks at least. That is usually why death shroud damage is higher with a staff compared to a dagger (higher AP) and with trained axe than a staff. So I could see it affecting auto attack damage, although I didn’t know that was true of offhands as well.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Druss.6917:

Muchacho.2390:

Because Focus 4 is good for stacking vulnerablity.

Interestingly is, if i only use autoattacks, my dps with offhand dagger seems a little higher than with focus offhand (tested it on the golems in the mists). Which is strange as the weapondamage of offhands shouldnt effect the the 1-3 skills…

Auto attacks are a culmination of attack power and weapon dps, so yes having an offhand dagger will net you higher autos because daggers have higher base weapon damage than focus. However, the vulnerability, along with the multiple bounces will make your overall dps higher using a focus over time as compared to a d/d setup.

Attack power has no effect on the damage you do. It is a completely useless stat that has no effect in game. Its not used in any formula in game as far as we know.

@Muchacho
Offhands dont change your damage. I assume you didnt use steady weapons when testing or you had some traits. Because the damage is exactly the same if you do use steady weapons and have no traits or amulet. The change in damage must of been natural variance.

What do you mean with steady weapons? I used the ones you get in the mists and i think they are all lev 80 exotics damage wise and no sigils. I also didnt change any traits or amulets, so why would they interfere? You may be right but i cannot explain the difference, well not that it really matters to me as the 4-5 skills are more important than some possible marginal increase in damage atleast in pvp.

Maybe i should test it without any traits and gear sometime.

Roe.3679:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Druss.6917:

Muchacho.2390:

Because Focus 4 is good for stacking vulnerablity.

Interestingly is, if i only use autoattacks, my dps with offhand dagger seems a little higher than with focus offhand (tested it on the golems in the mists). Which is strange as the weapondamage of offhands shouldnt effect the the 1-3 skills…

Auto attacks are a culmination of attack power and weapon dps, so yes having an offhand dagger will net you higher autos because daggers have higher base weapon damage than focus. However, the vulnerability, along with the multiple bounces will make your overall dps higher using a focus over time as compared to a d/d setup.

Attack power has no effect on the damage you do. It is a completely useless stat that has no effect in game. Its not used in any formula in game as far as we know.

@Muchacho
Offhands dont change your damage. I assume you didnt use steady weapons when testing or you had some traits. Because the damage is exactly the same if you do use steady weapons and have no traits or amulet. The change in damage must of been natural variance.

I wouldn’t consider myself well versed in damage formulas, but I’m fairly certain AP plays some role in auto attacks at least. That is usually why death shroud damage is higher with a staff compared to a dagger (higher AP) and with trained axe than a staff. So I could see it affecting auto attack damage, although I didn’t know that was true of offhands as well.

Actually in this case this doesnt matter. I mean spoj is essentially saying what is written on http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage. And i am sure that this formular is from people that did alot more testing than i did. So i think i am wrong but is still cannot explain why. Maybe i was simply unlucky and didnt test long enough.

Exotic weapons have natural variance. They will hit for slightly different numbers all the time due to the weapon damage being a range. In the mists there are steady weapons (blue) which have a set weapon damage rather than a range. These will always hit for the same numbers aslong as you have no traits etc to make the damage fluctuate.

And to respond to Roe. Attack power is calculated from weapon damage and various things. But its only purpose is to display attack power on the hero panel. The damage you see from attacks doesnt use the attack power stat in any way but it does use some common things which are used in both, such as power and weapon damage. So yes attack power will fluctuate, but it has no accuracy to how your damage will change.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Exotic weapons have natural variance. They will hit for slightly different numbers all the time due to the weapon damage being a range. In the mists there are steady weapons (blue) which have a set weapon damage rather than a range. These will always hit for the same numbers aslong as you have no traits etc to make the damage fluctuate.

And to respond to Roe. Attack power is calculated from weapon damage and various things. But its only purpose is to display attack power on the hero panel. The damage you see from attacks doesnt use the attack power stat in any way but it does use some common things which are used in both, such as power and weapon damage. So yes attack power will fluctuate, but it has no accuracy to how your damage will change.

Ahh, i am confusing weapon damage and attack power. See? I am not well versed. So does a dagger offhand increase auto attack damage versus a focus?

Nope there is no change. Damage from auto attacks is calculated solely from the weapon damage of the mainhand (I tested this earlier just to be sure). I believe you use the offhand weapon ranges if you are calculating the damage of the offhand skills though. This is one of the reasons attack power is not an accurate method of gaging damage, as it seems to use both mainhand and offhand weapon damage ranges in its calculation which is not accurate for any particular skill.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Exotic weapons have natural variance. They will hit for slightly different numbers all the time due to the weapon damage being a range. In the mists there are steady weapons (blue) which have a set weapon damage rather than a range. These will always hit for the same numbers aslong as you have no traits etc to make the damage fluctuate.

And to respond to Roe. Attack power is calculated from weapon damage and various things. But its only purpose is to display attack power on the hero panel. The damage you see from attacks doesnt use the attack power stat in any way but it does use some common things which are used in both, such as power and weapon damage. So yes attack power will fluctuate, but it has no accuracy to how your damage will change.

Ahh you mean the white weapons you can get from the weapon vendor. Sry i dont use the english client so i didnt get it. You are right with those weapons it is indeed the same damage. This is exactly what i would have expected.

Mhhh i still wondering where my error was, maybe i did indeed handle the weapon damage variance wrong. But i always thought and still think if you test long enough the numbers should normalize. Maybe i simply didnt test long enough but infinity is too long for me…

Yeah its rng when you dont use steady weapons. So you could test it for hours and still have a difference xD. Steady weapons are there to allow you to test these things without worrying about variance.