Guild Wars 2

Does anet even read what people say and suggest about necro changes ? I see so many awesome things on forums that can fix this class and anet is just ignoring that. They keep nerfing it to the ground.
It seems like every patch they do, they try to target necro (in a bad way ).

I don´t think they are trying to nerf us into oblivion, they don´t have reason to do so. We are and always were bottom-tier (arguably).

I think they are actually trying to fix the class, but their baby steps approach just doesn´t work out very well if you ask me. I really wish they´d man up a bit and go for more radical changes, be a bit more eager to try out new and bold things.

Someone stated that having our primary source of damage coming from brainless auto attacks, be it dagger, shroud, lich (or even scepter hahaha) would make bad publicity for an esport game if we were meta. Refusing to give us active defense worsen the situation.

On top of that they proactively nerf Reaper before it is even beta tested. The fear is real, so, I think necro really gives cancer after all. That’s the best explanation I have…

They just don’t see the class like we do examples are corruptions,Dhuumfire and axe,they do however fear something about necro and often balance around perfect scenarios.

Not everything can be fixed or changed right away. Consider how long it took to fix downed state, the Dhuumfire saga, or the great changes to Blood Magic.

Skoigoth.9238:

I don´t think they are trying to nerf us into oblivion, they don´t have reason to do so. We are and always were bottom-tier (arguably).

No,in the beta and at launch Necros were OP.Deathshroud was ridicoulusly strong…

billtherebel.8127:

Skoigoth.9238:

I don´t think they are trying to nerf us into oblivion, they don´t have reason to do so. We are and always were bottom-tier (arguably).

No,in the beta and at launch Necros were OP.Deathshroud was ridicoulusly strong…

Maybe in beta idk, I started playing at release so I can´t say much about that.
But OP at launch? If I remember correctly a lot of people considered everything that wasn´t their own class OP back then, because nobody had a clue So yeah, maybe we were better off back then, but I still hold that we certainly never were a particularly desired class, “top-tier” or anything close to that.

I can only speak from personal experience and exchange with friends/guildmates/people on the forum and to me Necromancer has pretty much always felt underwhelming when compared to other classes.
As I noted in another thread, the only things that keep me from abandoning Necro altogether are that it was my very first character, that I still like the art style of the class and that enjoy the class on a very basic level of game-play.

And to me that is kittening sad :´(

Signet of Undeath had a shorter cast time, we were rez bots, also running epidemic. Then brain cells connected and necro got focused to death, for 3 years. They still increased Undeath cast time, just in case some necro could survive and attempt anything useful.

Ara.4569:

Someone stated that having our primary source of damage coming from brainless auto attacks, be it dagger, shroud, lich (or even scepter hahaha) would make bad publicity for an esport game if we were meta. Refusing to give us active defense worsen the situation.

On top of that they proactively nerf Reaper before it is even beta tested. The fear is real, so, I think necro really gives cancer after all. That’s the best explanation I have…

That would make sense, except that ADCs are a thing, so I don’t think it’s the auto-attacks are bad for esports stuff.

Please… don´t bring eSports into this discussion. It feels so ridiculous in the context of GW2

I’ve played necros pre-patch and now I’ve try it post patch and faced it with other classes, in sPvP.
I think that Necro’s actually in a good place. Seriously. In the actual meta that everyone point to burst you down, a necro is a good class to survive a lot (expecially in 1vs1/2vs2, not in a group fight).
DS can be the worst thing ever, but Frequently I find harder kill a necro than kill a engi or a guardian.
I play guardian condi and the Only class that I really fear is the Necro. The only one. i can kill easy a thief, a engi, a ranger, a warrior (taking only a lot of tine, but I can kill them frequently, also when they use rampage to try so save themself from death), I’ve trouble with other guardians (same class, more or less same skills), ele, I can kill a mesmer if I catch him but it’s really hard. The only class that frequently kill me down is the necro.

Very high damage (axe skill 2 or dagger and DS AA deal very very high damage) and a “insane” amount of health. They also can eat my conditions, convert my boons and spam a large amount of conditions.
And when they fall down I have to run to a safe place if I’ve not more than 2/3 hp because they’re downed state attack deal so much damage that it’s really OP. frequently if I down a necro I die why it’s downed attack is very powerfull.

Actually the necro isn’t the best class of all, but if you face one that know how to play it’s class it’s avery big problem to take down (if you do).

Skoigoth.9238:

I think they are actually trying to fix the class, but their baby steps approach just doesn´t work out very well if you ask me. I really wish they´d man up a bit and go for more radical changes, be a bit more eager to try out new and bold things.

I think they are afraid of making the class too op. Meanwhile, the developers that take care of other classes, don’t even care about their class being op. That’s how you have elementalists and warriors on one side, and necros in the complete oposite side in terms of balance.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Skoigoth.9238:

I think they are actually trying to fix the class, but their baby steps approach just doesn´t work out very well if you ask me. I really wish they´d man up a bit and go for more radical changes, be a bit more eager to try out new and bold things.

I think they are afraid of making the class too op. Meanwhile, the developers that take care of other classes, don’t even care about their class being op. That’s how you have elementalists and warriors on one side, and necros in the complete oposite side in terms of balance.

It’s kind of their fault, LF and DS are not stable mechanics to balance. It’s either a perfect scenario or the worst there is rarely a in between just extremities. It’s kind of weird since mesmer share the same dev as us.

Nekster.2657:

Does anet even read what people say and suggest about necro changes ? I see so many awesome things on forums that can fix this class and anet is just ignoring that. They keep nerfing it to the ground.
It seems like every patch they do, they try to target necro (in a bad way ).

Devs to necro forums: L2P

Marthkus.4615:

Nekster.2657:

Does anet even read what people say and suggest about necro changes ? I see so many awesome things on forums that can fix this class and anet is just ignoring that. They keep nerfing it to the ground.
It seems like every patch they do, they try to target necro (in a bad way ).

Devs to necro forums: L2P

Necros to Marthkus and Anet Devs:

It’s been 3 years, you would have thought we would have L2P’d by now and would be recognized by PvP and PvE for our group contributions so why are Necros still not on 5 out of every 8 PvP tournament teams and why are Necros kicked from PvE dungeon runs because they’re Necros.

Anchoku.8142:

Not everything can be fixed or changed right away. Consider how long it took to fix downed state, the Dhuumfire saga, or the great changes to Blood Magic.

Except it didn’t take them all that long to nerf our condi application after Dumbfire, and our condi application has been going downhill since. If anything, it feels like they’re gearing the entirety of Condi application towards boon corruption, which is entirely RNG now making it an RNG mini-game whenever we want to apply condi pressure. The fact of the matter is, they are often very quick to nerf us, and very slow to buff us. If anything, they likely refer to the Dumbfire patch whenever they think about giving the Necromancer community what it wants (btw, the Necro community did want Burning, and I’m sure if you have the patience to look for those old threads you can find the proof), they are forever hesitant to consent for all the qq that Dumbfire spawned in its time.

Skoigoth.9238:

Maybe in beta idk, I started playing at release so I can´t say much about that.

It was in Beta that Necromancers were monsters. While I didn’t play in the earlier closed betas, you can still see just what most people are talking about by looking at some of our old traits from back then. In particular Shade which is basically Foot in the Grave on steroids. Necromancers have since then, always been balanced on the perspective of “they were terrifying once, we need to avoid them becoming unstoppable again”.

Ratphink.4751:

It was in Beta that Necromancers were monsters. While I didn’t play in the earlier closed betas, you can still see just what most people are talking about by looking at some of our old traits from back then. In particular Shade which is basically Foot in the Grave on steroids. Necromancers have since then, always been balanced on the perspective of “they were terrifying once, we need to avoid them becoming unstoppable again”.

Sweet, unholy hell. If we could even get a PORTION of those back, our class would actually be what the devs want it to be thematically. I.E, a monster. Granted, some of that stuff is OP, buuuut, we need somethings that are legitimately powerful as opposed to, “Oh, these might be super strong in a very, very specific scenario and literally no where else, but we’ll nerf the living hell out of them anyway”

Ratphink

traits":http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits#Necromancer_traits_2

I just read that, dear lord some of the traits on there! But it just makes me sorta sad to think at one time, we were considered op, and with the changes to stability I think shade would be fine nowadays, heck engies got juggernaut back how it used to be….. ;-; I just don’t wanna be a pin ball anymore.

Being a pinball is the most infuriating thing in PvP, in my opinion. My thought is typically, “IF I COULD JUST kittenING STAND UP, I’D MURDER THIS LITTLE kitten.” In short, there’s a bit of rage there

Necromancer have one of the hardest F1 skill to balance.
If yo start a fight with LF full, you deal high damage, your survavibility is very high and when you end the LF you start with your health, fighting an recharging the LF, obtaining another time in DS.
That’s not easy to fight.

If you start with no LF you’re easy to kill, you have to charge your LF before go in DS and that make you in trouble from the start of the match.

Frequently you’re witl more or less no LF or with more or less full LF.
If ANet give you immunity he make you really OP when you have a full LF bar. But if they don’t give you immunity they make you “defenceless” if you have no LF.

If you want a immunity skill, they have to cut down your amount of LF, granting you problems when you go in DS, with big problems with all the builds that work entirely on DS (like in www and frequently in spvp).

Necromancer is a very hard thing to balance. Warrior can be modiefied how fast he build adrenaline or the damage he do with F1 skills. Thef F1 and stealth can be modified easy. Guardian hano not so much to change but if it’s too powerfull he can be changed easy. Necromancer isn’t so easy to manage.

Swamurabi.7890:

Marthkus.4615:

Nekster.2657:

Does anet even read what people say and suggest about necro changes ? I see so many awesome things on forums that can fix this class and anet is just ignoring that. They keep nerfing it to the ground.
It seems like every patch they do, they try to target necro (in a bad way ).

Devs to necro forums: L2P

Necros to Marthkus and Anet Devs:

It’s been 3 years, you would have thought we would have L2P’d by now and would be recognized by PvP and PvE for our group contributions so why are Necros still not on 5 out of every 8 PvP tournament teams and why are Necros kicked from PvE dungeon runs because they’re Necros.

Things devs should fix:
1. un-excusable minion AI
2. Shroud 2 is too slow. I’d rather walk and cast life blast than use it.
3. Scepter is rather lacking. I find it difficult to make a condi build that I like.
4. dhuumfire could use a rework to make Condi’s want to use DS more.

Things players should fix:
1. Stop running pure glass cannon. That’s not how necros work. It will never be the meta outside of way-too-easy PvE content where the only thing that matters is how fast you beat the content.
2. Don’t build too tanky. You’re a bruiser not a tank.

All I will say if healing power scaled better like Condi or power. necro would be good for team support and survibility….hence vampric aura…no healing power 30 per hit healing…1200 healing power 37 per hit healing…i would say it should be closer to 60-80 per hit with healing power…and like with the power and Condi it scale better once u past 800 in healing to not make cele yo powerful

Hmm I´d say Warriors and Eles outclass us as bruisers by a lot. They have more mobility, more sustain and more damage.

We have SoS =P that´s it.

In short: Reaper is coming and some things will synergise better with it than with current necro. So they don’t want to overbuff stuff that they might have to nerf hard when the addon releases.

Also, in recent times, suggestions and whining went a bit out of hand. Some suggestions are just broken and some complaints are targeted at changes that have like 0 impact.

Skoigoth.9238:

Hmm I´d say Warriors and Eles outclass us as bruisers by a lot. They have more mobility, more sustain and more damage.

We have SoS =P that´s it.

Hmmm I like my engineer, but warriors tend to lean very zerky and depend on invul-frames to take damage. My necro out-sustains both and then crits off large chunks of their health until they die. Warriors can at least run away very well. As much as I like my engi, she doesn’t really compare to my necro. My war is pretty much a PvE exclusive toon.

What’s happening is they’re creating this super duper overpowered Rev class, and they actually have many good skills and ideas that necros have been asking for. Things from group support, to utilities, buffs, stab, dps, pulls, leap, mobility, sustain, pulsing quickness, etc.. you get it all with the Rev. They have to sell the expansion and make people want to play the Rev, so the Revs are getting all the goodies right now. This includes stepping over the necros.

Just go watch Point of Interest right now, and cry.

gavyne.6847:

What’s happening is they’re creating this super duper overpowered Rev class, and they actually have many good skills and ideas that necros have been asking for. Things from group support, to utilities, buffs, stab, dps, pulls, leap, mobility, sustain, pulsing quickness, etc.. you get it all with the Rev. They have to sell the expansion and make people want to play the Rev, so the Revs are getting all the goodies right now. This includes stepping over the necros.

Just go watch Point of Interest right now, and cry.

Like seriously. Same/better downed trait than us, better siphons, group support, massive mobility on skills, it is laughable.

I’m not even hyped with Reaper anymore, Revs look much better right now as-is.

Silv.9207:

I’ve played necros pre-patch and now I’ve try it post patch and faced it with other classes, in sPvP.
I think that Necro’s actually in a good place. Seriously. In the actual meta that everyone point to burst you down, a necro is a good class to survive a lot (expecially in 1vs1/2vs2, not in a group fight).
DS can be the worst thing ever, but Frequently I find harder kill a necro than kill a engi or a guardian.
I play guardian condi and the Only class that I really fear is the Necro. The only one. i can kill easy a thief, a engi, a ranger, a warrior (taking only a lot of tine, but I can kill them frequently, also when they use rampage to try so save themself from death), I’ve trouble with other guardians (same class, more or less same skills), ele, I can kill a mesmer if I catch him but it’s really hard. The only class that frequently kill me down is the necro.

Very high damage (axe skill 2 or dagger and DS AA deal very very high damage) and a “insane” amount of health. They also can eat my conditions, convert my boons and spam a large amount of conditions.
And when they fall down I have to run to a safe place if I’ve not more than 2/3 hp because they’re downed state attack deal so much damage that it’s really OP. frequently if I down a necro I die why it’s downed attack is very powerfull.

Actually the necro isn’t the best class of all, but if you face one that know how to play it’s class it’s avery big problem to take down (if you do).

I took a looong break from necro and am also a bit of a scrub, so take my comments with a grain of salt. Necro was my first toon in GW2 because it was my favorite in GW1. Obviously the two classes are not very similar. I played it for a while (level 80 and map completion) but stopped because it seemed underpowered compared to most other classes.

But with the recent changes, I have started playing it again, mainly in WvW. I knew it was considered meta for zergs but have found it to be even more powerful than I expected. I can’t speak for PvP as I don’t play it, but can’t imagine anyone finding necro underpowered in WvW. It can survive, push, control area, do damage, and even provide some support. I like playing it quite a bit and would agree that it is in a very good place in WvW.

In PvE it still seems to have issues, especially in dungeon, mainly because it doesn’t bring a whole lot to the group. ANet seems to have tried to add some group support with the changes to several of the traits in blood magic, but I don’t see any demand for necros for dungeons.

A couple of major complaints with necro seem to be lack of mobility in PvP and lack of support in dungeons. Seems to me that for the former, if necro is supposed to be the attrition class that cannot really disengage, a lot more stability would be a good change, maybe even as much as having foot in the grave pulse stability at some interval while in shroud. Maybe that would be OP, but maybe not. For the latter what if they modified dhuumfire (which everyone seems to hate and find useless) to change the combo fields for all wells to fire instead of dark or light? That way wells wouldn’t overwrite useful fire fields like they do now and necros would be able to contribute to might stacking in addition to vulnerability. Could necros then possibly fill a bit of the role that eles currently do in dungeon pugs? Not sure if changing wells’ combo fields to fire would upset PvP or WvW, but it doesn’t seem like it would have a great effect there.

Like I said I was away from necro for a long time and these may be really dumb suggestions.

@Silv, I really agree with your comments on death shroud, though I’m curious what build you’re running in sPvP?

My post-patch sPvP experience has been pretty terrible. I can pop Lich and run at people pressing 1, and if they’re bad they’ll stick around and die. But any other class can and will burst me. Sure, death shroud will let me survive one opener – but after soaking that, I’m completely helpless to followup from them or their teammates.

I used to run a condi build pre-patch with a lot of niche success vs. thieves, eles, or bunkers. But everyone seems to do condis better post-patch, or the burst is so high that condis are irrelevant (save for burning burst).

Also, good god this PoI stream is depressing.

Well stream was just there to explain to us that necros are going to be even more useless when HoT comes out. RIP necro i guess :/ pfff
I was so happy for reaper, and when i saw that revenant(shiro) spec man….. That is just going to kill us, it has everything that necro is lacking plus much more.

Nekster.2657:

Well stream was just there to explain to us that necros are going to be even more useless when HoT comes out. RIP necro i guess :/ pfff
I was so happy for reaper, and when i saw that revenant(shiro) spec man….. That is just going to kill us, it has everything that necro is lacking plus much more.

Paging confirmation biad

So I’m going back to reaper nerfs by chill stacking and the minimalization of the snare mechanic, yet

Others classes get auto at torment and vulnerable stacking?

Lol and some people here actually defend the reaper chill nerf?

Rip reaper
I spvpd with cond Rev that did really good dps with ax mace, add sword sword to that and wow.

Does anyone else find it strange how Anet will respond to Revenant with massive changes in design direction based on player feedback, yet a class which has arguably been broken since it’s release stays that way for years despite feedback from those exact same players?

Eliteseraph.4970:

Does anyone else find it strange how Anet will respond to Revenant with massive changes in design direction based on player feedback, yet a class which has arguably been broken since it’s release stays that way for years despite feedback from those exact same players?

It’s because revenant is a new class that’s still in development. Plus revenant is one of the big selling points in HoT. They can still balance and make changes quite easily on player feedback for Rev. Necro, much more difficult. Revenant’s also don’t have a second health bar holding them back when it comes to changes.

The first problem with necro is they are a sustain class that is built like a pve boss not a sustain class. Having X amount of HP does not make you harder to kill than someone with a ton of active defense assuming people can use that active defense well. If Necros had less HP to eat through, the class could be balanced with the necessary survivability tools in this game (dodges, vigor, blocks, invuln, reflect, blind).

The second problem with necros is the really bad damage in both pvp and pve. The numbers are simply lower than other classes. Too many long cast times that don’t deal that much damage. Some people will say our damage is better in pvp because it is so spammable on autos, but as players get better at landing damage necros get weaker and weaker. Condition builds simply don’t apply a lot of conditions fast enough, I personally love that corruptions apply conditions to you because it could solve this issue, but they need to be way stronger because of their massive risk.

The final problem with necros is of course group support. Conditions will never be as dependable as boons for supporting teammates, necros healing and condition removal is more situational and difficult to use than other classes, and the class doesn’t bring any unique utility outside of boon corruption, which isn’t needed when you have regular boon strip, or boon steal.

Simply put, necros get outclasses at literally everything in this game. Since they aren’t ever going to nerf a lot of the absurd things other classes have (elemental attunement as a minor is broken), they need to buff us up to that level.

All I would like them to do is come into the thread and advise us on how the want the necro to play- so we can tailor our suggestions to suit and when they will work on the changes.

Some feedback is better then none.

Xaragon.3520:

All I would like them to do is come into the thread and advise us on how the want the necro to play- so we can tailor our suggestions to suit and when they will work on the changes.

Some feedback is better then none.

That would be good, but you have heard it. They want us to play like horror movie monsters. Slow, lumbering, inevitable agents of doom. Not Immune to CC but shrug off the attacks.

Many people want to play necro ultra-glass. Which just does not work. We have good traits that boost our damage with tank-y-ness. We don’t have good means for glass builds to scale even higher damage without buffing the tanky-bruiser damage. All of our might stacking is easily done in Pvt or Celi.

I think desiring that ANET actually make glass viable for necros is a proper request, but at the same time I think ANET is trying to move away from the zerker meta by making zerker unnecessary to do tons of damage.

Marthkus.4615:

Xaragon.3520:

All I would like them to do is come into the thread and advise us on how the want the necro to play- so we can tailor our suggestions to suit and when they will work on the changes.

Some feedback is better then none.

That would be good, but you have heard it. They want us to play like horror movie monsters. Slow, lumbering, inevitable agents of doom. Not Immune to CC but shrug off the attacks.

Many people want to play necro ultra-glass. Which just does not work. We have good traits that boost our damage with tank-y-ness. We don’t have good means for glass builds to scale even higher damage without buffing the tanky-bruiser damage. All of our might stacking is easily done in Pvt or Celi.

I think desiring that ANET actually make glass viable for necros is a proper request, but at the same time I think ANET is trying to move away from the zerker meta by making zerker unnecessary to do tons of damage.

this is all well and good but if you take this path your crit chance is at best 10% thus most of the useful sigils in the game are worthless to you and your damage is serverely hampered so you wont kill anything anyway through the amount of healing other classes get

unlucky.9285:

Marthkus.4615:

Xaragon.3520:

All I would like them to do is come into the thread and advise us on how the want the necro to play- so we can tailor our suggestions to suit and when they will work on the changes.

Some feedback is better then none.

That would be good, but you have heard it. They want us to play like horror movie monsters. Slow, lumbering, inevitable agents of doom. Not Immune to CC but shrug off the attacks.

Many people want to play necro ultra-glass. Which just does not work. We have good traits that boost our damage with tank-y-ness. We don’t have good means for glass builds to scale even higher damage without buffing the tanky-bruiser damage. All of our might stacking is easily done in Pvt or Celi.

I think desiring that ANET actually make glass viable for necros is a proper request, but at the same time I think ANET is trying to move away from the zerker meta by making zerker unnecessary to do tons of damage.

this is all well and good but if you take this path your crit chance is at best 10% thus most of the useful sigils in the game are worthless to you and your damage is serverely hampered so you wont kill anything anyway through the amount of healing other classes get

You get 50% crit chance from a trait in DS…

You also don’t know what you are talking about with damage. Actually try it out first.

Silv.9207:

Necromancer have one of the hardest F1 skill to balance.
If yo start a fight with LF full, you deal high damage, your survavibility is very high and when you end the LF you start with your health, fighting an recharging the LF, obtaining another time in DS.
That’s not easy to fight.

If you start with no LF you’re easy to kill, you have to charge your LF before go in DS and that make you in trouble from the start of the match.

Frequently you’re witl more or less no LF or with more or less full LF.
If ANet give you immunity he make you really OP when you have a full LF bar. But if they don’t give you immunity they make you “defenceless” if you have no LF.

If you want a immunity skill, they have to cut down your amount of LF, granting you problems when you go in DS, with big problems with all the builds that work entirely on DS (like in www and frequently in spvp).

Necromancer is a very hard thing to balance. Warrior can be modiefied how fast he build adrenaline or the damage he do with F1 skills. Thef F1 and stealth can be modified easy. Guardian hano not so much to change but if it’s too powerfull he can be changed easy. Necromancer isn’t so easy to manage.

If the necromancer has no scaling defense or useful support for a team fight, it should be the strongest pure fighter, able to 1v1 anybody.

nekretaal.6485:

Silv.9207:

Necromancer have one of the hardest F1 skill to balance.
If yo start a fight with LF full, you deal high damage, your survavibility is very high and when you end the LF you start with your health, fighting an recharging the LF, obtaining another time in DS.
That’s not easy to fight.

If you start with no LF you’re easy to kill, you have to charge your LF before go in DS and that make you in trouble from the start of the match.

Frequently you’re witl more or less no LF or with more or less full LF.
If ANet give you immunity he make you really OP when you have a full LF bar. But if they don’t give you immunity they make you “defenceless” if you have no LF.

If you want a immunity skill, they have to cut down your amount of LF, granting you problems when you go in DS, with big problems with all the builds that work entirely on DS (like in www and frequently in spvp).

Necromancer is a very hard thing to balance. Warrior can be modiefied how fast he build adrenaline or the damage he do with F1 skills. Thef F1 and stealth can be modified easy. Guardian hano not so much to change but if it’s too powerfull he can be changed easy. Necromancer isn’t so easy to manage.

If the necromancer has no scaling defense or useful support for a team fight, it should be the strongest pure fighter, able to 1v1 anybody.

It is arguably the strongest 1v1 class. This is because it hardcounters dedicated condi specs, which are very common 1v1 specs and often have poor condi removal if they aren’t necros themselves.

This is also because life force lets you shift 1v1s in your favor. Going into a 1v1 with a lot of life force will usually win you that 1v1.

In my opinion the only things that compete with cele necro at being the best 1v1 spec are cele D/D ele and shatter mesmer (but only because the burst is overthe top and mantras cheese it up). A very well played theif can compete as well, but they have to be in the top 1% of theives or they’re just food.

Not even close. The Necromancer has trouble with

(1) anybody on any class that can kite
(2) shatter mesmers
(3) power Rangers
(4) Anybody on any class with stealth or that can reset fights
(5) Hammer Warriors, & everybody else with a lot of CC

That’s basically everybody but engineers.

I also find that the raw amount of conditions that condispecs can put out, quickly overrides condition transfers.

The problem with investing in sustain and defensive traits on necro is the lack of stab or mobility. You can have as much % damage reduction and healing skills as you want. None of that matters when your on your back getting bursted down, which is where necros will always be until they get vigor, better movement, or stab. Reaper will obviously have some of this, but the base class will continue to get hardcountered in teamfights.

nekretaal.6485:

Not even close. The Necromancer has trouble with

(1) anybody on any class that can kite
(2) shatter mesmers
(3) power Rangers
(4) Anybody on any class with stealth or that can reset fights
(5) Hammer Warriors, & everybody else with a lot of CC

That’s basically everybody but engineers.

I also find that the raw amount of conditions that condispecs can put out, quickly overrides condition transfers.

If you have enough life force you can win against all of those. A ranger can’t kite you without giving up the point, and on most maps you can LoS them without giving up the point 1v1. Thieves only win if they’re really good and can reset fights, but they shouldnt have enough time to bring you down in a 1v1 when your team is properly rotating. Mesmer’s are tough but you can AoE down the clones and pressure them hard.

And you definetly have enough condi transfers to beat condi classes 1v1, since there are no condi classes with good condi output that have immense amounts of condi clear. If you can kill a trap ranger or a PU mesmer or a burn guard as a necromancer, you’re just doing it wrong.

Nekster.2657:

Does anet even read what people say and suggest about necro changes ? I see so many awesome things on forums that can fix this class and anet is just ignoring that. They keep nerfing it to the ground.
It seems like every patch they do, they try to target necro (in a bad way ).

What are you talking about? The Revenant team obviously reads our forums!

nearlight.3064:

nekretaal.6485:

Not even close. The Necromancer has trouble with

(1) anybody on any class that can kite
(2) shatter mesmers
(3) power Rangers
(4) Anybody on any class with stealth or that can reset fights
(5) Hammer Warriors, & everybody else with a lot of CC

That’s basically everybody but engineers.

I also find that the raw amount of conditions that condispecs can put out, quickly overrides condition transfers.

If you have enough life force you can win against all of those. A ranger can’t kite you without giving up the point, and on most maps you can LoS them without giving up the point 1v1. Thieves only win if they’re really good and can reset fights, but they shouldnt have enough time to bring you down in a 1v1 when your team is properly rotating. Mesmer’s are tough but you can AoE down the clones and pressure them hard.

And you definetly have enough condi transfers to beat condi classes 1v1, since there are no condi classes with good condi output that have immense amounts of condi clear. If you can kill a trap ranger or a PU mesmer or a burn guard as a necromancer, you’re just doing it wrong.

Getting a point and waiting for team rotations are not reasons why a class is better at 1v1 than another class. It looks like you confused CC with condi for some reason, and relying on, “enough Life Force,” as an argument means that the outcome of a fight is predetermined by your amount of Life Force prior to the fight.

meow one twenty.4376:

nearlight.3064:

nekretaal.6485:

Not even close. The Necromancer has trouble with

(1) anybody on any class that can kite
(2) shatter mesmers
(3) power Rangers
(4) Anybody on any class with stealth or that can reset fights
(5) Hammer Warriors, & everybody else with a lot of CC

That’s basically everybody but engineers.

I also find that the raw amount of conditions that condispecs can put out, quickly overrides condition transfers.

If you have enough life force you can win against all of those. A ranger can’t kite you without giving up the point, and on most maps you can LoS them without giving up the point 1v1. Thieves only win if they’re really good and can reset fights, but they shouldnt have enough time to bring you down in a 1v1 when your team is properly rotating. Mesmer’s are tough but you can AoE down the clones and pressure them hard.

And you definetly have enough condi transfers to beat condi classes 1v1, since there are no condi classes with good condi output that have immense amounts of condi clear. If you can kill a trap ranger or a PU mesmer or a burn guard as a necromancer, you’re just doing it wrong.

Getting a point and waiting for team rotations are not reasons why a class is better at 1v1 than another class. It looks like you confused CC with condi for some reason, and relying on, “enough Life Force,” as an argument means that the outcome of a fight is predetermined by your amount of Life Force prior to the fight.

Well yeah it kind of is. Thats why you don’t go in to 1v1s with no life force unless its something like a warrior where locust swarm and SA will build it very fast.

Honestly just stop complaining about necromancer, all you pessimists are giving me anxiety. Its a strong class if you put the time into learning it really well.

In fact, everyone moaning about how kittenty they think our class is, is the reason everyone thinks that. Try being more positive and you’ll realize that the necro is a great class. And finally, rotations in pvp mean so much more than the viability of the build you can play. Nos was able to win while playing MM necro and helseth was able to destroy salt playing a settlers bunker mesmer. 1v1 viability is also secondary to ROTATIONS/

tl;dr Necro is great, pessimism sucks. Rotations> everything else in conquest.

nearlight.3064:

meow one twenty.4376:

Getting a point and waiting for team rotations are not reasons why a class is better at 1v1 than another class. It looks like you confused CC with condi for some reason, and relying on, “enough Life Force,” as an argument means that the outcome of a fight is predetermined by your amount of Life Force prior to the fight.

Well yeah it kind of is. Thats why you don’t go in to 1v1s with no life force unless its something like a warrior where locust swarm and SA will build it very fast.

Honestly just stop complaining about necromancer, all you pessimists are giving me anxiety. Its a strong class if you put the time into learning it really well.

In fact, everyone moaning about how kittenty they think our class is, is the reason everyone thinks that. Try being more positive and you’ll realize that the necro is a great class. And finally, rotations in pvp mean so much more than the viability of the build you can play. Nos was able to win while playing MM necro and helseth was able to destroy salt playing a settlers bunker mesmer. 1v1 viability is also secondary to ROTATIONS/

tl;dr Necro is great, pessimism sucks. Rotations> everything else in conquest.

If you are getting anxious step away from the forum for a bit. Anxiety sucks :P.

nekretaal offered a very clear and concise argument that, “If the necromancer has no scaling defense or useful support for a team fight, it should be the strongest pure fighter, able to 1v1 anybody”

You offered the opinion that Necro’s are arguably the best 1v1 class, and he offered 5 types of classes/builds that counter Necro in 1v1. In my post I pointed out why your most recent counterargument was irrelevant:

- Points in Conquest do not directly constitute a 1v1 win, and now I can add that team rotations are not only irrelevant to 1v1s but defeats the whole point of discussing them.
- nekretaal didnt mention beating condi classes.
- Beating CC classes are still a problem.
- Your logic mistakes “Necros with abundant Life Force are deadly” for “Necros are deadly” (tricky subject, but not something to be brought up as a counterargument to nekretaal’s post.)

Okay fine you win, instead of worrying about arguing with you I’ll go out with necromancer in pvp and I’ll be an asset to my team every kitten time.