Guild Wars 2

What do the devs see as the role of a necro in raids?

We don’t do damage very well
We don’t do boons very well
We don’t do fields very well
We don’t do heals very well
We don’t do cleanses very well

Chill and Weakness don’t work on bosses, which kills what seems like our best role.

Boon stripping has never worked in PvE since enemies apply boons much faster than our CD’s allow us to strip them.

Will chill and weakness be changed to be more effective? What is the role of the necro in a raid?

PS: please don’t say rezzing, if you need to be rezzed then you have done something wrong, not right. That is not a role.

Facetanking. Being bait for the big baddies so your friends can kill them. The usual

Have you seen these raids already?

Because I haven’t.

Rym.1469:

Have you seen these raids already?

Because I haven’t.

Pre-detail presumption only. Hopefully it’ll be more interesting for necros than the same old stuff

Necro mitigates enemy damage and soaks damage better than any profession, so as long as their idea of “challenging” doesn’t involve ridiculous damage that you need to use invulns and blocks against, we could have a really strong presence in the new content. It depends if mitigating damage matters or if it’s just bring all zerkers and smash everything.

Also they’re remaking the whole Unshakable thing so we don’t know what the state of weakness and blind will be. I hear blind will reduce the breakbar like other CC so that would be more useful than the current blind at least.

Rym.1469:

Have you seen these raids already?

Because I haven’t.

Are you implying that we won’t need damage, boons, fields, healing, cleanses or support in the raids? because that seems unlikely.

I’m asking what the devs see our role in raids being. It seems we are designed to be “debuffers” except that debuffs don’t work on bosses in GW2, which renders us instantly useless.

What do you think necros do well enough to justify a raid spot. Remember boons have a 5 player limit, so you will need a minimum of 2 buffers. Uptime of alacrity/quickness/reflects means you will need at least 2 reflecters. Cleanses/heals are also limited to 5 people so you will need 2 cleansers/healers.

That means you will want 2 ele’s, 2 warriors, 2 guards and 2 chrono’s minimum. Their roles simply can’t be filled by any other classes.

Ele’s = best damage, best healing, good cleansing, good party support
Warrior = best buffing, good damage
Guard = best cleansing, best reflecting, good damage, good buffing, good party support
Chrono = only alacrity, good buffing, good reflecting, ok damage

So of the last 2 viable raid slots, what makes necro worth choosing?

Hopefully there’ll be needed condition control and boon stripping, as well as grouping up being punished so things like plague signet can work well.

Otherwise it’ll be 7 warriors and 3 mesmers chain spamming time warp.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Rym.1469:

Have you seen these raids already?

Because I haven’t.

Are you implying that we won’t need damage, boons, fields, healing, cleanses or support in the raids? because that seems unlikely.

I’m asking what the devs see our role in raids being. It seems we are designed to be “debuffers” except that debuffs don’t work on bosses in GW2, which renders us instantly useless.

What do you think necros do well enough to justify a raid spot. Remember boons have a 5 player limit, so you will need a minimum of 2 buffers. Uptime of alacrity/quickness/reflects means you will need at least 2 reflecters. Cleanses/heals are also limited to 5 people so you will need 2 cleansers/healers.

That means you will want 2 ele’s, 2 warriors, 2 guards and 2 chrono’s minimum. Their roles simply can’t be filled by any other classes.

Ele’s = best damage, best healing, good cleansing, good party support
Warrior = best buffing, good damage
Guard = best cleansing, best reflecting, good damage, good buffing, good party support
Chrono = only alacrity, good buffing, good reflecting, ok damage

So of the last 2 viable raid slots, what makes necro worth choosing?

We’ll fit right in for raids that just kind of want to chill… :}

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Rym.1469:

Have you seen these raids already?

Because I haven’t.

Are you implying that we won’t need damage, boons, fields, healing, cleanses or support in the raids? because that seems unlikely.

I’m asking what the devs see our role in raids being. It seems we are designed to be “debuffers” except that debuffs don’t work on bosses in GW2, which renders us instantly useless.

What do you think necros do well enough to justify a raid spot. Remember boons have a 5 player limit, so you will need a minimum of 2 buffers. Uptime of alacrity/quickness/reflects means you will need at least 2 reflecters. Cleanses/heals are also limited to 5 people so you will need 2 cleansers/healers.

That means you will want 2 ele’s, 2 warriors, 2 guards and 2 chrono’s minimum. Their roles simply can’t be filled by any other classes.

Ele’s = best damage, best healing, good cleansing, good party support
Warrior = best buffing, good damage
Guard = best cleansing, best reflecting, good damage, good buffing, good party support
Chrono = only alacrity, good buffing, good reflecting, ok damage

So of the last 2 viable raid slots, what makes necro worth choosing?

We have blind, weakness, chill, cripple, regen, protection, boon corruption, condition conversion, condition drawing, and idk probably some other things.

So it depends if those things are useful or not.

I honestly dont see why we have to overthink it. You want “a minimum of 2 buffers”… lolwut? What is this, release day Arah? Unless the raids are insanely hard or the eqvivalent of a level 250 fractal, you wont need anything but another player. And your average Necro is good enough at being that. Not the most ideal player perhaps, but they excel against larger mob groups, which we hopefully will see much of in raids. If raids require being split up against strong mobs the Necro is also one of the tankiest dpsers (hell even a MM Necro is usefull there).

Also I have little doubt that hardcore raids will be just 10 Guardians. Perma quickness ftw.

We make lots of useful dark fields, a light field, and poison, too!

PS, DS Trans-ressing!

If it’s a question of needing buffers to make a raid work… Necro actually isn’t a terrible choice, in that we can buff ourselves fairly well and build tanky while still retaining most of what dps we do have. Poke bosses with sticks, run around trying not to get squished, allow higher dps classes free reign. In theory

Dawdler.8521:

I honestly dont see why we have to overthink it. You want “a minimum of 2 buffers”… lolwut? What is this, release day Arah? Unless the raids are insanely hard or the eqvivalent of a level 250 fractal, you wont need anything but another player. And your average Necro is good enough at being that. Not the most ideal player perhaps, but they excel against larger mob groups, which we hopefully will see much of in raids. If raids require being split up against strong mobs the Necro is also one of the tankiest dpsers (hell even a MM Necro is usefull there).

Also I have little doubt that hardcore raids will be just 10 Guardians. Perma quickness ftw.

The whole point of raids is that they are extremely hard. It should be 10x harder than release day arah, if not more.

If a raid doesn’t require a balance well thought out team comp then it isn’t really a raid, it is just an instanced zerg that will be on farm status in a week.

I’m hoping they revamp blind, chill and weakness to be more useful in PvE. Currently they have greatly reduced durations and almost no effect.

If they allow them to work on bosses, and make bosses have more frequent smaller damage attacks I think necro could fill a debuffing role quite well. A necro could even become wanted.

This requires damage to come fast enough to render blocks/reflects unable to keep up
This requires damage to be absorbed, not just healed with a blasted water field (perma poison maybe?)
This requires poison, blind, weakness and chill to actually function on bosses, and not just instantly fall off or have no effect.

Really my question is to the devs if they see this as a valid role to be filled or if they see damage, fields and blasting to be the only roles.

We actually heal very well, though if they ever gave us back a proper Well of Blood scaling I’m pretty sure we’d be the highest healing in the game without blast finishers.

But the most likely thing is we’ll be on debuff duty. It doesn’t matter in current PvE, but we are very capable of putting out large amounts of all the non-damaging conditions in one build, and we’re very capable of dealing with high sustained damage unlikely nearly anyone else. We should be okay once they get around to balancing all the extra things that need balance, which is going to hold us back more than a “role” will (looking at you Well of Garbage).

Well, based on the little bit Colin said about most of a Raid team clearing a path to escape a big blast from the boss and a few players staying behind to draw aggro and distract/do some dps, necro would fit that, too. Especially if non-damaging conditions affect those bosses.

We have strong raw healing, good access to cleansing conditions from allies and our “role” as support comes from providing debuffs (Vuln doesn’t count), unique boon corruption, a lot of condition manipulation, we can soak more damage than any other profession, we have Epidemic and other pretty kitten amazing non-DPS utilities like CPC, Plague, SWall… We have meatshields in form of minions.

And we have like best rezzing potential ever on 30s CD.

If you just stop tunnelvisioning on current PvE speedrun meta, you will see that we can actually offer a lot of things.

Vydahr.4285:

Facetanking. Being bait for the big baddies so your friends can kill them. The usual

This until I see the raids.

Honestly, I expect we’ll be quite useful in raids. No other class is quite as durable against sustained damage, and we’re able to kite/tank pretty much anything without one-shot mechanics extremely well. And, even though the current PvE doesn’t require or reward it, we have phenomenal debuffing capabilities.

And, y’know, Epidemic is potentially the single hardest hitting aoe ability in the game, if that ever becomes a thing we need.

Minions.

Regarding raids, without having strategic content, I do not know how well they will work out.

Currently, PvE content requires very little cooperation. Professions have almost no inherent “specialty roles”.

The only thing I can think of close to a raid right now are Teq and Triple.

Gw2 is not Ffxi where bosses havespecific weaknesses that require precise skill combo’s and countermeasures to defeat.

The “dps to win” game play is the only permanent content we currently have. Scarlet’s lane defense, followed by arena attack was the closest thing to a raid I remember.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

We don’t do damage very well

Only in a mix-maxer setting. We have good base damage compare to our survivability. If other classes need to spec more defensively, our damage immediately becomes competitive.

We don’t do boons very well
We don’t do fields very well

nope indeed, not our role.

We don’t do heals very well

We do heal decently, and most importantly, we are very good at rezzing thanks to blood magic.

We don’t do cleanses very well

We clean ourselves very well, and we have some good team cleaning. Maybe not best, but not worst by far.

Chill and Weakness don’t work on bosses, which kills what seems like our best role.

Will chill and weakness be changed to be more effective? What is the role of the necro in a raid?

This they are working on already.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chronomancer-Changes-for-Next-BWE/first#post5383336

Boon stripping has never worked in PvE since enemies apply boons much faster than our CD’s allow us to strip them.

We have the best boon stripping abilities of all classes. Mesmer sword can remove boon continuously, but that assumes a non-moving enemy which will wait for the last attack of the chain. Null field also assumes a non-moving enemy, and has a fairly high CD. If mesmer uses shatter (which it may), it will be a DPS loss so necro will be more competitive. Thief steal is very good, but only few boons every 20s or so. If a-net do their job properly, the boss will apply burst boons and not fast reapplying like currently, so necro should have a good niche there.

PS: please don’t say rezzing, if you need to be rezzed then you have done something wrong, not right. That is not a role.

Still thinking as current PvE content. I think if nobody gets downed while playing raids even on a good team, a-net has failed.

In summary I will say, necro is currently well balanced in PvP. I would expect raids to get closer to PvP in terms of balance, in which case necro automatically gets a decent spot.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PS: please don’t say rezzing, if you need to be rezzed then you have done something wrong, not right. That is not a role.

Funny you say that. Because in WoW back in the days, you needed at least 2-3 druids because they had a combat rez.
It’s not about doing something wrong, it’s about being flexible enough to recover. Everyone makes mistakes and if the raids are truly hard, people WILL go down.
Hell maybe there are even mechanics that require people to go down or certain mechanics that can be circumvented by having someone go down.

That said. I don’t think necro’s currently, with the current knowledge and tools, bring enough to warrant a spot in an optimal setup. Of course every class can be taken to a raid and you’ll be able to finish it; but we all know meta/optimal setups are ultimately going to be much more common.

However, things might change.
The encounter might require people to prop up their defensive to stay alive, the necro might benefit here.
They talked about changing boss encounters to react on more debuffs, and certain encounters might allow for boon corruption; another pro for the necro.
Maybe there are encounters with timed add spawns that need bursting down. If adds spawn every 40 seconds in an encounter and they can be grouped up; well bombing could become a thing for a certain encounter.

Too soon to tell. Only thing I fear is that so far ANet has been disgustingly poor at reacting to imbalances. Certain classes have been top of the food-chain for the past 3 years, and other classes (including necro) at the bottom. And there has hardly been a serious attempt at fixing that.

I would say that our biggest trumps are self sufficiency and debuffing.

Tim.6450:

I would say that our biggest trumps are self sufficiency and debuffing.

Debuffing has been nearly worthless against high value targets.

Anchoku.8142:

Tim.6450:

I would say that our biggest trumps are self sufficiency and debuffing.

Debuffing has been nearly worthless against high value targets.

And we know that the devs are working to change that.

Anchoku.8142:

Tim.6450:

I would say that our biggest trumps are self sufficiency and debuffing.

Debuffing has been nearly worthless against high value targets.

I never said it was good in current content but if content requires debuffing then we have a good shot at being optimal. There are some changes necessairy to make this work, I will admit that( the most important one nerf/remove skale venom.).

“We don’t do boons very well”

Biggest understatement of Gw2 History

Captain Unusual.9163:

Anchoku.8142:

Debuffing has been nearly worthless against high value targets.

And we know that the devs are working to change that.

I would say the problem is that in a 5v1 situation, they had to reduce the effect of most impairing conditions on the boss to prevent a complete lockdown. This means weakness is reduced, blinding is reduced and most CC are negated. But they didn’t do anything of the kind to boons on allies. And this hurts necro. For example, to support your team defensively, you can:

• either apply protection on them to reduce damage taken (“guardian-way”) or apply weakness on the boss to reduce the damage he gives (“necro-way”). Those are 2 nearly equivalent ways to proceed. BUT weakness is reduced on bosses while protection works perfectly.
• either apply aegis before a big blow (“guardian-way”) or apply blind (“necro-way”). Same result as before.

For offensive support, you also have might vs vulnerability. Necro is good at continuously applying vulnerability, but vuln stacks so easily 25 that it does not matter.
As a result, it is usually agreed on that boons are way stronger than conditions in PvE. This should not be! And people often say “necro have no team support” while in a sense, we have one of the best team support of the game, it is just not “direct support” but support through enemy-debuff.

I think an easy fix to all of that is to reduce the duration of all impairing condition, and especially vulnerability AND reduce the duration and efficiency of all boons to keep it balanced too. This could be applied as an area debuff from the boss.

Twitch Spectators (at least on release and if the raids are truly hard, not GW2 hard).

Silverkey.2078:

For offensive support, you also have might vs vulnerability. Necro is good at continuously applying vulnerability, but vuln stacks so easily 25 that it does not matter.
As a result, it is usually agreed on that boons are way stronger than conditions in PvE. This should not be! And people often say “necro have no team support” while in a sense, we have one of the best team support of the game, it is just not “direct support” but support through enemy-debuff.

I’d honestly say Vuln vs Might is the way things should be. Vuln is a significantly higher damage increase than might, and honestly might is much easier to stack over a team. Otherwise totally agree, debuffs have a strange drawback when boons don’t, and it doesn’t particularly make sense.

Question makes little sense in GW2 … If Anet sticks with their game concept, no class will have any more of a role in raids than they do in dungeons. Frankly, the only real interesting think I can think of that a 10 man raid offers than a 5 man raid doesn’t is more ‘double-task’ encounters e.g. A few people do THAT while the rest do THIS. If they don’t, bad things happen. If there are ‘roles’, they likely won’t be defined by some class ability; it will be defined by some generic skill that pretty much everyone has … timing your heal or standing in a specific spot or staying out of melee range. Garbage like that.

I’m still not as optimistic as some people here.

They can change raid mechanics to help us, that still doesn’t change the fact we have subpar dps/lack of meaningful support and what support we do have other professions can do better, we lack active defense, and we lack mobility.

All we’re really good at is burst boon removal or condi transferring. And I don’t think they’ll make entire raids relying on that.

L Step.8659:

I’m still not as optimistic as some people here.

They can change raid mechanics to help us, that still doesn’t change the fact we have subpar dps/lack of meaningful support and what support we do have other professions can do better, we lack active defense, and we lack mobility.

All we’re really good at is burst boon removal or condi transferring. And I don’t think they’ll make entire raids relying on that.

If they have condition mobs/bosses I’ll be impressed and happy. If not L.

About the debuffing role, assuming anet does make this viable against bosses are people sure that people wont simply swap out having a necro for these?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom_

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghost_Pepper_Popper

and ofcourse you have thieves for blind anyway.

Well no matter how things settle i will most likely be using reaper when the first raid unlocks. And depending on who is involved in the main initial rT raid group there could be two necros. We can save our strategic optimising conclusions until then. Or at least once HoT is released and we can fully kitten the new elite specs and the type of encounters we get in HoT.

But that said the OP does raise a good point. Realistically we dont provide anything better than any other classes. And that includes boon strip, weakness and chill. So i only see necros being good if base durability and high self buffing becomes important. An example of something that would create this scenario is if a small break off group needs to distract a group of high damage dealing enemies that hit a bit too frequently for blind spam to work perfectly. So eles would be too squishy and would have to stay out and you would need slightly more durable self buffers (so they still deal really good damage) to take the front line and keep the enemies in place.

I was unaware they were working on changes to control conditions. That is good news for necros.

However we will never be desirable as other classes as long as our dps is sub-par. When it comes down to it everyone needs to do damage, it is the primary role of GW2. We aren’t really any more tanky than a warrior, yet our dps and support is certainly far below the warrior level.

I’ll almost certainly be bringing my condition reaper into raids, but if I become a liability then my PS warrior is almost certain to be a better use of a slot, especially if I put him in solider’s trinkets.

I can really only imagine two ways raids play out.

1. No DPS check, everyone wears nomad’s and soldiers and wears the bosses down.

2. DPS check, highest dps comps and active defenses reign supreme once again.

Add real condition mobs to PvE now!

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I can really only imagine two ways raids play out.

1. No DPS check, everyone wears nomad’s and soldiers and wears the bosses down.

2. DPS check, highest dps comps and active defenses reign supreme once again.

I sincerely hope you’re wrong. I think raids will fulfill their job if and only if the optimal comp contains different roles (some support, some DPS etc…).

I can imagine a few ways that Necros become core to Raid runs.

1. Large numbers of boons burst out on the target. Mesmer boon removal is great for sustained removal of one or two boons constantly getting reapplied, but Necromancers do far better against large quantities that are more infrequent.

2. Seperation is key. We already know that raid groups will get split up, but if you have someone needing to go solo some objective, who better than a Necro? We are by far the most self-sufficient profession for buffs and can handle decent pressure from enemies. Necros alone can hit their max damage without going total glass cannon thanks to not really needing Precision.

3. Enemies rip boons. Necros and Thieves are the least reliant on boons.

4. People are expected to go down. Necros do make fantastic rez-bots and healers without interfering with combo fields attempting to provide a different benefit.

5. Mobs with high condition damage output. Sure, your team could remove the conditions, but a Necro can turn the enemies’ spike against them, drastically shortening the time you are fighting and the number of cleanses your team needs.

No role. But at least we’re not pet reliant.

If raids are any indication, rangers are going to be screwed.

Zenith.7301:

No role. But at least we’re not pet reliant.

If raids are any indication, rangers are going to be screwed.

If what raids are any indication?

Captain Unusual.9163:

Zenith.7301:

No role. But at least we’re not pet reliant.

If raids are any indication, rangers are going to be screwed.

If what raids are any indication?

Large instant death aoe’s/pass-fail mechanics that will one shot pets ala Liadri.

Condis and boons will most likely be a thing for once in HoT so necro’s ability to convert those both should be found useful. They also have a sick ability to move downed players to less hazardous areas so that might see some play.

One of my hopes is that most, if not all, types of necro skills (and skills in general) can have somewhat of a place in the content. Not every skill in each type, mind you, because that would be difficult to make work, i think. Rather, each skill type has a skill or two that has some clear benefit, whether really impactful or not quite as much, and then perhaps another skill type is more suited for this raid wing or that raid wing.

……

Mostly I just really want Reaper and its abilities to be useful and manageable in the raids, though… Because it makes me sad to think that skills that have such potential won’t get to utilize it

Hammerguard.9834:

Condis and boons will most likely be a thing for once in HoT so necro’s ability to convert those both should be found useful. They also have a sick ability to move downed players to less hazardous areas so that might see some play.

Necros are no more desired when dredge are around and dredge both use plenty of conditions and boons.

Why don’t people understand how little impact boon/condi conversion has compared to the damage loss the necro brings compared to an ele/engineer?

If it’s critical you just bring a mesmer with null field and iDisenchanter and he can cleanse boons/condis just fine.

Zenith.7301:

Hammerguard.9834:

Condis and boons will most likely be a thing for once in HoT so necro’s ability to convert those both should be found useful. They also have a sick ability to move downed players to less hazardous areas so that might see some play.

Necros are no more desired when dredge are around and dredge both use plenty of conditions and boons.

Why don’t people understand how little impact boon/condi conversion has compared to the damage loss the necro brings compared to an ele/engineer?

If it’s critical you just bring a mesmer with null field and iDisenchanter and he can cleanse boons/condis just fine.

Dredge hardly use conditions at all and spam boons on a 3 second cooldown. There is zero point to even attempt to strip them. Compare instead to Aetherblades, who do use boons and conditions, including often stacking to 25 Might. There, you practically need boon rips (and Necro boon ripping is great for it, since that Might is also accompanied with Stability).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zenith.7301:

Hammerguard.9834:

Condis and boons will most likely be a thing for once in HoT so necro’s ability to convert those both should be found useful. They also have a sick ability to move downed players to less hazardous areas so that might see some play.

Necros are no more desired when dredge are around and dredge both use plenty of conditions and boons.

Why don’t people understand how little impact boon/condi conversion has compared to the damage loss the necro brings compared to an ele/engineer?

If it’s critical you just bring a mesmer with null field and iDisenchanter and he can cleanse boons/condis just fine.

Dredge hardly use conditions at all and spam boons on a 3 second cooldown. There is zero point to even attempt to strip them. Compare instead to Aetherblades, who do use boons and conditions, including often stacking to 25 Might. There, you practically need boon rips (and Necro boon ripping is great for it, since that Might is also accompanied with Stability).

Mesmer with null field and iDisenchanter+ sword autoattack will keep a group full of dredge boon-free all the way through their death.

And I don’t know what you mean by no conditions, grenadiers apply poison and the melee dredge swipe for poison.

You clear aetherblade by blowing them up with burst not cleansing their boons/conditions.

Technically, according to Robert Gee (who must know what he’s talking about because designer), some professions like Necros and Mesmers are designed to have lots of fields and some professions like Warriors are designed to have lots of finishers.

So your third point is obviously wrong.

Let’s ignore the fact that fire field is the most sought after and surprisingly the one that neither of the field oriented professions bring.

Zenith.7301:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zenith.7301:

Hammerguard.9834:

Condis and boons will most likely be a thing for once in HoT so necro’s ability to convert those both should be found useful. They also have a sick ability to move downed players to less hazardous areas so that might see some play.

Necros are no more desired when dredge are around and dredge both use plenty of conditions and boons.

Why don’t people understand how little impact boon/condi conversion has compared to the damage loss the necro brings compared to an ele/engineer?

If it’s critical you just bring a mesmer with null field and iDisenchanter and he can cleanse boons/condis just fine.

Dredge hardly use conditions at all and spam boons on a 3 second cooldown. There is zero point to even attempt to strip them. Compare instead to Aetherblades, who do use boons and conditions, including often stacking to 25 Might. There, you practically need boon rips (and Necro boon ripping is great for it, since that Might is also accompanied with Stability).

Mesmer with null field and iDisenchanter+ sword autoattack will keep a group full of dredge boon-free all the way through their death.

And I don’t know what you mean by no conditions, grenadiers apply poison and the melee dredge swipe for poison.

You clear aetherblade by blowing them up with burst not cleansing their boons/conditions.

No dredge applies poison, not even bosses. If they use conditions at all, it’s bleeding and vulnerability. Molten Alliance dredge add burning to the list.

And no, even Mesmers can’t keep dredge boon-free. They might keep it down to one boon, but not totally cleared.

Aetherblades are difficult to burst down when some of them have invulnerability phases, others have static auras (better hope your burst is a single, non-channeled skill), and others still heal. Yes, Icebow 4 takes them out. It does that to literally everything in the game. Take that out of the equation and things look rather different.

I meant burning on grenadiers. And yes, mesmers can keep them clean. I main a mesmer, it’s not the first time I’ve done so. If you interrupt the buffing dredge’s gong they don’t pulse out the boons. Which happens to be really easy with mantra of distraction/curtain pull.

Aetherblades don’t get to invulnerability phase with the current game’s spike, and that’s without ice bow. Take some engineers in place of ele and it’s the same, as well as pistol whip thieves.

People are overestimating ice bow on trash packs when its biggest impact is on large hitbox bosses.