Guild Wars 2

To pve dungeons.

A trait that gives 150 condi dmg to all party members? A trait that gives all the stripped/removed enemy boons to your teammates? Cleave? What do you suggest?

I would love to play my necromancer in pve but I can’t help but feel like im wasting a slot when I could bring my ele, thief, ranger or phalanx warrior.

Chain list:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Parasitic_Bond – heals allies in 600 range for total of 1k hp (thus 5 people is 200 each, if its you solo you get the full 1k)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiteful_Spirit – duration increased by 1 and it applies to all allies
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave – same as above

Any vamp trait made into GM which gives your wifesteal healing to allies

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_Evasion – CD removed

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritual_of_Protection – pulsing protection

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Martyr – working on 4 targets, condis pulled are with increased duration, but reduced efficiency

Mix of 4-5 of these and you got a instantly pve (fractal) viable offensive support.

Or we just get the facetanking ability we are described to have with its appropriate sustain and we just play the linchpin of the group letting zerkers be more carefree with their options into max damage.

I like the mark of evasion thing, considering we don’t really have vigor it makes sense.

We need unique buffs. Boons and just general healing don’t cut it, we’d need something that no one else can give, and it has to be (at least somewhat) offensive in nature.

Bhawb.7408:

We need unique buffs. Boons and just general healing don’t cut it, we’d need something that no one else can give, and it has to be (at least somewhat) offensive in nature.

Like aura wifesteal?

Andele.1306:

Bhawb.7408:

We need unique buffs. Boons and just general healing don’t cut it, we’d need something that no one else can give, and it has to be (at least somewhat) offensive in nature.

Like aura wifesteal?

Thresh would be so proud.

Andele.1306:

Like aura wifesteal?

It depends on how easily accessible it was. If it was a utility skill or elite (that didn’t lock us out of our skills) then yes, but if it required significant blood magic investment (and it would probably have to to be balanced) I don’t think it’d be worth the DPS loss of not having close to death or target the weak.

Life Siphoning to be a percentage based off total health, SOME utilities during DS, an elite that lets you use LF in some other way than only DS, like some sort of AoE burst.

Those suggestions would do nothing to improve necros popularity. Would like actual decent buffs rather than useless play how you want crap. :P

@OP
A trait for 150 ferocity would be nice. Condi damage would fit the class better but would probably buff condi necro too much and crit damage would be much more desirable for the entire party.

Bhawb.7408:

Andele.1306:

Like aura wifesteal?

It depends on how easily accessible it was. If it was a utility skill or elite (that didn’t lock us out of our skills) then yes, but if it required significant blood magic investment (and it would probably have to to be balanced) I don’t think it’d be worth the DPS loss of not having close to death or target the weak.

Well taking 100 pre hit, you would need a hit pre second with everyone in range on a target to make up your personal dps loss, while also giving healing for everyone (assuming 4.5k dps with average setup), tho it would need the team to have multi hits/2hits pre second if you are running a optimized group to equate to CtD (that is, without counting for frost spirit procs).

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 – Torment comes in so many flavors; stealing your precious one is just one of em (others are Tshackles, thief, runes and sigils X3).

@spoj.9672 – if you ment my suggestions, if you take the actual statistical value of them, they would make necro on equal footing with thief (highest proactive dps with a projectile destruction and mass blinds for trash) and mesmer (utility of gods) for fractals in terms of beefing up/easing fights. Guard and Warrior still stuck on top since you cant compete with 5/25s stability and reflect/blocks & banner + 150 power n 14+ might while still dealing reasonable damage; ALL while enabling a bit more build diversity.
Being on the top of the food chain in raw power doesnt actually make you the apex predator, if it did, hippos elephants and sharks would be natures apex predators, instead of dear old reptiles (aka komodo dragons, crocs and snakes), the tiny insects (with guys like mosquitos killing about the same amount of people as cars/2 mill +/-) and the true master of intellect and stategy the human (said cars which in a year murder more of our own kind than all the ancient American civilizations managed to trough ritual sacrifice on all historical accounts and finds).

I dont see how group lifesteal, healing, retal and prot would put necro on par with the other classes. Group lifesteal would be nice if it was accessible to dps builds. Prot is the only other useful thing in your list. We already have good prot access and we dont really need any more. Besides if you want prot you can just take a hammer guard. x)

I can tell you if any of your suggestions were introduced. Necro would still remain the the very bottom tier class in pve. They might be nice and fun for the casual player but they are essentially useless to anyone with even a moderate amount of experience.

A skill that summons a minion for each party member(they don’t do much damage at all) but if a person(not a necromancer) were to be downed the minion sacrifices itself and the person is back at 75% hp
Think of it as each party member gets their own extra health reserve if things go sour. This will save dungeon wipes and will make people want us more in their groups

spoj.9672:

I dont see how group lifesteal, healing, retal and prot would put necro on par with the other classes. Group lifesteal would be nice if it was accessible to dps builds. Prot is the only other useful thing in your list. We already have good prot access and we dont really need any more. Besides if you want prot you can just take a hammer guard. x)

I can tell you if any of your suggestions were introduced. Necro would still remain the the very bottom tier class in pve. They might be nice and fun for the casual player but they are essentially useless to anyone with even a moderate amount of experience.

Well:
a) Blood 25 gives power and power from spite 15 is turned into healing power, when added with zerkers 2k+ power and if it were 1+level/2+2% Power for damage (2% HP for healing), bloodthirst, well cd and said aura wifesteal trait would give 100% hps and boost burst with WoC/WoS
TLDR: you would do more damage on bosses, while helping the team dps more.
b) That was actually the point, if wells pulsed, hammer guard would be less of a pick over anything in terms of defense and would reduce the pressure of guards having to have/keep hammer as their second weapon set.
c) Pbond/SS/Fitg/MoE being just general beefing from selfish sub par for its slot to team helpful worth the trait spot buffs, small and insignificant in a dps race, yes, but also giving more options * same thing as how warriors got DWA, yes noone is gonna take it over crit chance/vuln and might on hit in a optimized setup, but it gave a reasonably competitive boost for other builds*
d) Unholy Martyr would just be a pvp and nub carry thing (aka phalnax strength, but on the defense for encounters like mai trin), since people dodge out of well of power for no reason and Plague signet is just annoying.

An Elite that would shroud other people with DS. It’d drain from your own supply, so it’d be over pretty quick, but could add some stats, like… Uhm… Precision(?) and Condi Damage(???) and provide a burst of party(Other than the casting necro) “invincibility”.
EDIT: Could also remove conditions from allies affected and apply them to the necro.

Bhawb.7408:

Andele.1306:

Like aura wifesteal?

It depends on how easily accessible it was. If it was a utility skill or elite (that didn’t lock us out of our skills) then yes, but if it required significant blood magic investment (and it would probably have to to be balanced) I don’t think it’d be worth the DPS loss of not having close to death or target the weak.

I’ve actually been thinking of something along the lines of;

Blood Grandmaster
Order of the Vampire
Nearby allies (5 people, 600 range) receive a portion (50-100%) of your life drains.

And then stickytape Vampiric Rituals and Ritual Mastery together to give it room. It might seem weak if you’re looking at it from a glance, but you can get a lot of life drain through combining sigils, Vamp Signet and Dagger 2. I don’t know whether it’d be viable as a dungeon option, but I personally think it could be a wildcard in sPvP/WvW.

If they eventually fixed life stealing that could be an option for sPvP maybe, but it’d still be awful in PvE. PvE needs something you can get while still going dagger w/ 6/6/0/0/2

Bhawb.7408:

If they eventually fixed life stealing that could be an option for sPvP maybe, but it’d still be awful in PvE. PvE needs something you can get while still going dagger w/ 6/6/0/0/2

Except that 6/2/0/0/6 does more in a organized setup, if you ment that.
Also i have already debunked it above that neither line will result in more dps if everyone gets 100 (so 1+level/2+2% power – aka 2k+ on zerker build with bloodlust), you will with just 1 hit pre second from team guarantee more damage than close to death/5stack target the weak.

So suggested cdr/trigger changes (not SS/FITG, since those are bandaid buffs/fixes), healing, UW life blast on land (without condi transfer) and reapers might being buffed to negate range damage difference or give might in aoe pre life blast cast and functionally necros would have no problems in terms of optimized team setups in pve.

You are getting them mixed up Andele. 6/6 does more in an organised group. 6/2 is more dps in a pug group if you can maintain your lifeforce (which kind of makes it bad for both as its unreliable).

Andele.1306:

Also i have already debunked it above that neither line will result in more dps if everyone gets 100 (so 1+level/2+2% power – aka 2k+ on zerker build with bloodlust), you will with just 1 hit pre second from team guarantee more damage than close to death/5stack target the weak.

No idea what your trying to say here as i dont speak jibberish.

spoj.9672:

You are getting them mixed up Andele. 6/6 does more in an organised group. 6/2 is more dps in a pug group if you can maintain your lifeforce (which kind of makes it bad for both as its unreliable).

Andele.1306:

Also i have already debunked it above that neither line will result in more dps if everyone gets 100 (so 1+level/2+2% power – aka 2k+ on zerker build with bloodlust), you will with just 1 hit pre second from team guarantee more damage than close to death/5stack target the weak.

No idea what your trying to say here as i dont speak jibberish.

7.2k effective power (with a 5.4k dip over 10/60 giving average 6.9k power without counting downtime reduction with npc deaths) or on SR vs 6.4k effective power from 7+ condi curses (and please, tell me how often do you see any boss with even 7 condis up permanently.

OR if you want it in terms of numbers you got a nice average 6.4 vs 5.1k dps *on bosses in team setup, 4.2 vs 3.3 on average random mob *

P.S for the second, im saying giving the team additional 100 damage pre hit> you doing 5-10% more damage on your own attacks with that jibber being called math

7k effective power is very low for both builds in an organised group. Put simply in an organised group you are going to have close to 100% crit chance without DP and you will easily have 4 conditions maintained permanently (5-6 isnt hard either). Thats an 8% boost from Target the weak which is greater than the 5% from strength of undeath. The ferocity doesnt make up the difference. Plus the 6/6 has more condition damage which will add a small amount. And dagger > lifeblast.

spoj.9672:

7k effective power is very low for both builds in an organised group. Put simply in an organised group you are going to have close to 100% crit chance without DP and you will easily have 4 conditions maintained permanently (5-6 isnt hard either). Thats an 8% boost from Target the weak which is greater than the 5% from strength of undeath. The ferocity doesnt make up the difference. Plus the 6/6 has more condition damage which will add a small amount. And dagger > lifeblast.

Actually we had it confirmed ages ago that under 600 range LB>Dagger in terms of rotations (over the same duration having identical 1.4 power ratio but LB having higher base damage , 7k effective power is average self efficient stats, can be higher assuming disc banner allowing different multipliers on both builds (even better for SR because then you got 100% crit chance in lich too and you can drop accuracy sigils for air or night).
I gave TtW the benefit of 7 conditions (so 14% damage bonus), tho additional 13% more damage from SR crit damage does negate it fully so yes it does make the difference.

NOTE: DAGGER IS MORE RELIABLE HIGH DPS (and thats why i personally use it over axe, same reason why i use staff over axe for in DS, more reliable damage differentiation), but in optimized setups that little fact, for dps, is counted as a non sequitur (same as scholar runes, might and vuln, rotation differentiation because of events, lack of melee option, etc)

So you can chose, pick the full on “true optimized” team setup with banner, empower spotter bloodlust, frost etc giving your build 95% crit chance (100% if using oil over sharpening stone) and 3.35k power, but in that case also giving SR the equivalent treatment, thus not needing oil (having 100% crit chance either way even without fury/75% crit chance out of DS for the 5 seconds it takes for mobs to die and Axe 2/kittenain according to your rule of optimal situation * to go off after 50s of life blasts) having 3.28k power BUT also getting the benefits of a air sigil every 5 seconds (aka 4.5k pre 5 additional damage/900 dps vs the 91 bit power gives).

Or we can easily settle for my very conservative and practically efficient in uptime which as already mentioned above in a beefed up multiplier seting the axe/life blast will do higher dps, but in any pugged setting, where 7 condis is actually a thing that happens because of skill spam, the curses setup will give equivalent dps without having to rely on other environmental facts (such as boss type and previous encounters).

Also no, dagger has 2.8 scaling pre 2.2 seconds which is a 1.27 power coefficient being thus 0.34 power pre second weaker than LB, not counting the fact that its base weapon damage from dagger (952.5/ 1000A vs 1048/1100A) accounting for dps is quite lower (300 power value the difference lover to be precise).

Here calculate it yourself:
damage pre second without crit = average weapon damage * power * skill coefficient in a second / 2600
Now that with multipliers:
(Crit D x Damage x crit chance + 100-crit chance x damage)/100 x rune/sigil/multiplier

You said organised group. Banners, might and fury is a given. Also lifeblast only out damages dagger in a piercing situation. Lifeblast does 0.93 coefficients per second whereas dagger does 1.4 coefficients per second. Pretty huge difference.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/page/2/m/6563292/viewthread/12821718-necro-dps-trials-halp-dek

You can scroll down to the group setting, without stacks for the kind of situation we are talking about. You can exclude ranger buffs and you still get a similar result. Every organised group will have banners and EA, many will have a ranger. So ignoring those is just cherry picking to favour the DS build.

Yep, I saw a noticeable improvement in DPS when I went from 6/2 to 6/6 in organized groups. I still swap back to a LB build when my group totally sucks, but thats it.

More Elite Pets. Maybe a Shadow Bat that adds bleeding per hit, and utilizes the condition damage stat.

A Heal skill that heals more health the more active bleed stacks that are on the enemy when used.

Maybe have the death shroud Siphon Skill absorb health if the opponent is bleeding when used.

Make bleeding conditions not so easily cleansed. Maybe have each cleanse skill take away a few stacks of bleed and not ALL. Higher tier cleanse skills with longer cooldowns should take away several stacks.

A 3 second invisibility should be added to Spectral Recall.

Bhawb.7408:

Andele.1306:

Like aura wifesteal?

It depends on how easily accessible it was.

How easily accessible was what? The skill or the wife?

Scythe melee weapon and more mobility and stability

Party hats for minions.

A ground-targeted teleport on Death Shroud #2 ¬¬

OMG if we could dress up the minions it would be…. words can’t describe.

For pvp:
1.) Boon corruption prioritizes might
2.) Poison on beginning of scepter chain attack
[3.) More ways to apply chill and weakness]

Sacrifice 33% LF to reduce the recharge of all recharging skills by 33%.

Sacrifice 50% LF to summon a Wraith from the Underworld to help you in battle for 10 seconds.

Sacrifice 50% LF to summon a Wall of Bones, which blocks attacks and projectile spells for 3 seconds in the target area of 180 radius.

CHIPS.6018:

Sacrifice 50% LF to summon a Wall of Bones, which blocks attacks and projectile spells for 3 seconds in the target area of 180 radius.

Why would you sacrifice something that can ‘tank’ an attack..to block an attack..thereby still tanking it?
maybe 25% would be a better number.. 50% and by the time its down, you’ll have no lf(due to it slowly dropping while you’re in it).

necro is quite appealing in pvp and wvw.

We need to find ways of making it more appealing in pve.
maybe make bleed for might, to stack might on party members? (stacking 7 bleeds on you .. the original 2, +1 per party member).

Taygus.4571:

CHIPS.6018:

Sacrifice 50% LF to summon a Wall of Bones, which blocks attacks and projectile spells for 3 seconds in the target area of 180 radius.

Why would you sacrifice something that can ‘tank’ an attack..to block an attack..thereby still tanking it?
maybe 25% would be a better number.. 50% and by the time its down, you’ll have no lf(due to it slowly dropping while you’re in it).

---

necro is quite appealing in pvp and wvw.

We need to find ways of making it more appealing in pve.
maybe make bleed for might, to stack might on party members? (stacking 7 bleeds on you .. the original 2, +1 per party member).

Projectile block would be perfect to make it more appealing in pve. I assume you are primarily a pvp/wvw player if you consider tanking with DS just as good as a projectile block.

Pro tip: projectile block is vastly superior in over 60% of encounters.

spoj.9672:

Taygus.4571:

CHIPS.6018:

Sacrifice 50% LF to summon a Wall of Bones, which blocks attacks and projectile spells for 3 seconds in the target area of 180 radius.

Why would you sacrifice something that can ‘tank’ an attack..to block an attack..thereby still tanking it?
maybe 25% would be a better number.. 50% and by the time its down, you’ll have no lf(due to it slowly dropping while you’re in it).

---

necro is quite appealing in pvp and wvw.

We need to find ways of making it more appealing in pve.
maybe make bleed for might, to stack might on party members? (stacking 7 bleeds on you .. the original 2, +1 per party member).

Projectile block would be perfect to make it more appealing in pve. I assume you are primarily a pvp/wvw player if you consider tanking with DS just as good as a projectile block.

Pro tip: projectile block is vastly superior in over 60% of encounters.

ypur block is solo though, and would not be more useful than a guard, to sacrifice 50% of LF for a block around.. which you just said block no mention of prejectiles.(I assumed like a 360 warhorn skill)

It would only be useful if it circled the party… but even then, pve would prefer reflects, to send those projectiles back. So, yeah just having a block, wouldnt be more appealing.

A group block where we can still attack through..maybe.. but if you’re idea is for projectiles. reflects are better, which just keeps us in a poor place in pve.

I mostly play pve ….
dungeons/fracs in paticular

Erm any form of projectile block even if its just on you is vastly superior than face tanking in DS.

Multiple projectiles come flying at you that would normally down you? No problem ill just negate all of them in a limited timeframe. Projectile might hit teammates? No problem, just stand infront of teammates and you can use it as a group projectile block (projectile blocks destroy the projectile which means they can be more useful than reflects in some cases).

PvE has a wide range of high damage projectile attacks. DS is not viable for most of these for any sustained fight. Yes reflect is preferable, but the main reason for taking reflects/projectile blocks is for the defence side of them (this is why d/f ele is so good in fractals). The returned damage is just a bonus and can often speed kills up.