Guild Wars 2

When should I use it? Is there any build out there that make it worth it to spend time using the very long cast, very slow projectile (stopping if it hit any pixel on it’s way, decors, pets and particles in the air) that is DS #1 skill?
Even with the might trait I can’t seem to find any use to it…
When I get in deathshroud, I usually use #5 then #4 and use #3 whenever I need the fear and I start or finish or don’t use #2 depending on the situation.
But #1… just can’t find a use…

Look at the Soul Reaping tree… Vital Persistence, Unyielding Blast, Deathly Perception. Hits like a truck if you spec for it, but if you are just another condition damage based necro it won’t do much for you.

Nessuno.1253:

Look at the Soul Reaping tree… Vital Persistence, Unyielding Blast, Deathly Perception. Hits like a truck if you spec for it, but if you are just another condition damage based necro it won’t do much for you.

And how much is a truck?
Because even with piercing, I fail to see how the very slow attack speed and missile speed can be overcomed by huge damage.

As a power necro I average between 3.6k and 4.4k crit in DS on regular Orr mobs, and anywhere from 2k to 7k in WvW depending on target. That’s without might etc.

Piercing is good, but I’m using the sustain talent currently as with the new patch 1% LF is worth a lot more than it was.

6-10k crits with straight 100% chance in CoE. 2-4,5k crits in soldier’s gear with 64%/84% (fury) chance in wvw.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

As a power necro I average between 3.6k and 4.4k crit in DS on regular Orr mobs, and anywhere from 2k to 7k in WvW depending on target. That’s without might etc.

Piercing is good, but I’m using the sustain talent currently as with the new patch 1% LF is worth a lot more than it was.

In zerker necro? Because even with 7k highest hit, the cast speed drop down the DPS by a massive amount. I’ve hit 6k’s fireballs with my zerker elem and I can fire twice faster at a high missile speed with passive splash damage. So to me, DS #1 still feels pretty underwhelming aside from cannon shooting in WvWvW. And even then…

I’ll go try out a full Soul Reaping zerker build when I get the chance to compare.

Regardless of the build, Life Blast does more single target damage than Life Transfer.

snaplemouton.1294:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

As a power necro I average between 3.6k and 4.4k crit in DS on regular Orr mobs, and anywhere from 2k to 7k in WvW depending on target. That’s without might etc.

Piercing is good, but I’m using the sustain talent currently as with the new patch 1% LF is worth a lot more than it was.

In zerker necro? Because even with 7k highest hit, the cast speed drop down the DPS by a massive amount. I’ve hit 6k’s fireballs with my zerker elem and I can fire twice faster at a high missile speed with passive splash damage. So to me, DS #1 still feels pretty underwhelming aside from cannon shooting in WvWvW. And even then…

I’ll go try out a full Soul Reaping zerker build when I get the chance to compare.

Not full zerk, no. Mixed gear. I’d imagine 6k would be possible with full zerk.

I use a blend of knight, soldier and ‘zerk. GEnerally only slot crit damage where it’s at a low opportunity cost (boots, gloves, shoulders, gems etc.) and I use Rune of the Vampire.

To put it in context: Axe 2 will generally hit for 4.8-6.6k, but LB on the same target is 4.0 to 4.4k (Orr mobs). Axe 2 has 2.25 cast time, DS is 1s.

I dunno – I think LB with 30/10/0/0/30 edges out Axe 2 for damage.

I use life blast when my other skills are on CD or when im primarily melee and need the range.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

To put it in context: Axe 2 will generally hit for 4.8-6.6k, but LB on the same target is 4.0 to 4.4k (Orr mobs). Axe 2 has 2.25 cast time, DS is 1s.

I dunno – I think LB with 30/10/0/0/30 edges out Axe 2 for damage.

like I mentioned up there ^^ why not use axe #2 then life blast while axe is on CD? then you get both and its irrelevant which one is stronger.

Life Blast is really strong on a 30/10/0/0/30 build.
It’s affected by Axe Mastery and Close to Death, so make sure to have your Axe out when using Life Blast.
Before Axe Mastery went down to a Master trait I used Mainhand Dagger, but now Axe+Life Blast is just too good to pass up on.
In PvE anyway, I haven’t tested that build in PvP.

Also remember that although you need to be at 600 range to deal lots of damage with it it actually has 1200 range total, which is really nice sometimes.

Bull Zooker.1672:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

To put it in context: Axe 2 will generally hit for 4.8-6.6k, but LB on the same target is 4.0 to 4.4k (Orr mobs). Axe 2 has 2.25 cast time, DS is 1s.

I dunno – I think LB with 30/10/0/0/30 edges out Axe 2 for damage.

like I mentioned up there ^^ why not use axe #2 then life blast while axe is on CD? then you get both and its irrelevant which one is stronger.

I didn’t mean to say Axe 2 wasn’t worth using, I was merely attempting to provide a frame of reference for the person asking how good LB was.

Axe 2 should always be used when it’s off CD, if only for the 12% LF.

Dagger is better.

Dagger also requires you to be close up in melee, of course the tradeoff is more damage.

Also, thanks for the head’s up that Axe Training affects Life blast! I did not know that.

basically, use DS1 when you have to swap to axe from dagger.

snaplemouton.1294:

Nessuno.1253:

Look at the Soul Reaping tree… Vital Persistence, Unyielding Blast, Deathly Perception. Hits like a truck if you spec for it, but if you are just another condition damage based necro it won’t do much for you.

And how much is a truck?
Because even with piercing, I fail to see how the very slow attack speed and missile speed can be overcomed by huge damage.

This guy is correct, I love the build and it feels totally fun spamming 1 to gain might stacks and inflict vuln on a few targets if they clump, but it’s still less dps than dagger 1 to a single target. You are also denying yourself healing/utilities and weapon switching while staying in deathshroud to achieve this.

You can do it, it just isn’t a very effective build, for anything

snaplemouton.1294:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

As a power necro I average between 3.6k and 4.4k crit in DS on regular Orr mobs, and anywhere from 2k to 7k in WvW depending on target. That’s without might etc.

Piercing is good, but I’m using the sustain talent currently as with the new patch 1% LF is worth a lot more than it was.

In zerker necro? Because even with 7k highest hit, the cast speed drop down the DPS by a massive amount. I’ve hit 6k’s fireballs with my zerker elem and I can fire twice faster at a high missile speed with passive splash damage. So to me, DS #1 still feels pretty underwhelming aside from cannon shooting in WvWvW. And even then…

I’ll go try out a full Soul Reaping zerker build when I get the chance to compare.

Zerker Necros are way more survivable than zerker Eles in WvW. If a thief jumps you, pop DS and go to town on him (whereas the Ele has to hope there’s an allied tower within Mist Form + Vapor Form range). And Life Blast and Fireball have roughly the same cast time, nor are their missile speeds all that different from each other. I believe LB is homing, as well.

I actually use a Knights/Zerker mix for my Necro and I love it. I’m a beast in duels, still output massive damage and CC in zerg fights, am reasonably difficult to kill considering how much damage I’m specced for (careful use of DS, Flesh Worm, and Plague really help with this), and I have a few ways in which I can specifically screw over my enemies that the Ele doesn’t have.

Don’t think of the Necro and the Ele simply in terms of who has better damage. Think about what they can do differently and which benefits each brings to the table.

spoj.9672:

Dagger is better.

Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.

Better? No.

Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.

Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

Dagger is better.

Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.

Better? No.

Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.

Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.

More dps = better. Melee isnt hard. Theres very little challenging content when in a group in gw2.

Personally, DS #1 is more damage in my build because I went all Soldier’s gear with ruby orbs for wvw sustainability. Out of DS, my crit % is somewhere around 12%. With full bloodlust stacks and food I’m near 2700 power, 57-ish crit damage, 26k hp, and 2.4k armor. In DS, my crit % is a much more fun 60+%.

I’m running 30/0/0/10/30 with axe/focus + staff.

I’d rather use axe than dagger – personal preference for a little more range.

spoj.9672:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

Dagger is better.

Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.

Better? No.

Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.

Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.

More dps = better. Melee isnt hard. Theres very little challenging content when in a group in gw2.

I prefer axe for:

1) Better DS blasts
2) AoE for tagging, cripple, retal and boon stripping
3) Ranged attack for when melee is a bad idea (WvW, Lupicus, that sort of thing)
4) Kiting in WvW/sPvP

Dagger is good, the DPS is higher and the LF gen is better, but as of recent patches it’s no longer flat out “better”. You’re welcome to keep using dagger, but promoting it as absolutely better is wilfully ignorant at best and daft at worst.

Something to note -
When Axe Training got moved down to master tier, its damage bonus was reduced from 15% to 10%. This means that using an axe + Axe Training will give about the same damage as using a staff, assuming the axe and staff are of equal level & rarity, since the axe’s weapon strength range is about 90% of that of a staff.

So if you want max damage life blasts, you can take axe + Axe Training or you can just take a staff, and make sure to be using your staff while in DS.
(Dagger and scepter will both do less damage, of course.)

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

Dagger is better.

Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.

Better? No.

Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.

Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.

More dps = better. Melee isnt hard. Theres very little challenging content when in a group in gw2.

I prefer axe for:

1) Better DS blasts
2) AoE for tagging, cripple, retal and boon stripping
3) Ranged attack for when melee is a bad idea (WvW, Lupicus, that sort of thing)
4) Kiting in WvW/sPvP

Dagger is good, the DPS is higher and the LF gen is better, but as of recent patches it’s no longer flat out “better”. You’re welcome to keep using dagger, but promoting it as absolutely better is wilfully ignorant at best and daft at worst.

So im ignorant because I can melee lupi with a dagger?

Careful, you’re getting confused.

I said declaring one weapon outright better than the other was ignorant. Your build with your team may work well with dagger, but mine works better with axe.

The reasons I provided are hopefully clear enough for why there is no longer a simple “better” weapon of the pair.

Blaine Tog.8304:

snaplemouton.1294:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

As a power necro I average between 3.6k and 4.4k crit in DS on regular Orr mobs, and anywhere from 2k to 7k in WvW depending on target. That’s without might etc.

Piercing is good, but I’m using the sustain talent currently as with the new patch 1% LF is worth a lot more than it was.

In zerker necro? Because even with 7k highest hit, the cast speed drop down the DPS by a massive amount. I’ve hit 6k’s fireballs with my zerker elem and I can fire twice faster at a high missile speed with passive splash damage. So to me, DS #1 still feels pretty underwhelming aside from cannon shooting in WvWvW. And even then…

I’ll go try out a full Soul Reaping zerker build when I get the chance to compare.

Zerker Necros are way more survivable than zerker Eles in WvW. If a thief jumps you, pop DS and go to town on him (whereas the Ele has to hope there’s an allied tower within Mist Form + Vapor Form range). And Life Blast and Fireball have roughly the same cast time, nor are their missile speeds all that different from each other. I believe LB is homing, as well.

I actually use a Knights/Zerker mix for my Necro and I love it. I’m a beast in duels, still output massive damage and CC in zerg fights, am reasonably difficult to kill considering how much damage I’m specced for (careful use of DS, Flesh Worm, and Plague really help with this), and I have a few ways in which I can specifically screw over my enemies that the Ele doesn’t have.

Don’t think of the Necro and the Ele simply in terms of who has better damage. Think about what they can do differently and which benefits each brings to the table.

I’m sorry, but elementalist are far better as terms of survival, even in zerker gear…
Necro only real defense aside from worm port is DS and it’s highly unreliable.
Elementalist, even with low vitality, got the biggest toolkit in the game with it’s 20 weapon skills and super defensive utilities. And aside from stealth, you couldn’t ask for more ways to get out of danger.

And Axe on a necro is downright terrible. I have yet to see a more useless weapon in the game then Necro’s axe.

In WvW, I’m running 30/0/0/10/30 and use life blast quite a lot. I have it traited for piercing and it does a lot of damage. Mainly running Axe for ZvZ Dagger for roaming. I use DS #1 because its better then spamming Axe skills so after DS #5/4 spamming Life blast a few times with give my utility’s and weapon skills time to be off CD.

As for the conversation on “better” (WvW related not PvE) I think Axe is much better for larger scale fights. Axe #3 is a great AoE and the added retal is helpful. Daggers #3 and auto attack just seem to mesh for small fights since you have DS for range. Obviously this is my opinion so take that for what it is.

Softspoken.2410:

Something to note -
When Axe Training got moved down to master tier, its damage bonus was reduced from 15% to 10%. This means that using an axe + Axe Training will give about the same damage as using a staff, assuming the axe and staff are of equal level & rarity, since the axe’s weapon strength range is about 90% of that of a staff.

So if you want max damage life blasts, you can take axe + Axe Training or you can just take a staff, and make sure to be using your staff while in DS.
(Dagger and scepter will both do less damage, of course.)

I wasn’t aware of that.
Interesting.

Perhaps my signature Necro weapon (the Dagger) isn’t as obsolete as I thought.
I’d still rather take the Axe than the Dagger for things like the Wolves in CoE, though…
Some things just murder melee, although most can be stabbed by good positioning.

snaplemouton.1294:

And Axe on a necro is downright terrible. I have yet to see a more useless weapon in the game then Necro’s axe.

It used to be awful, yes.
After all the buffs it has gotten since the launch it’s actually pretty good now.
Give it a try sometime!

It’s auto-attack is still pretty lame but Ghastly Claws is really good.
Also Unholy Feast is AoE Boon removal which can be handy at times.

It’s certainly not the best weapon around, but there are plenty of way worse weapons.
Mesmer’s Scepter for example is pretty horrible.

Dropping crappy glass canon thiefs in 2-3 point blank shots? Check.
Stealhed? Do a 8-9k aoe up his kitten just so he feels the wubwub.

Heck even crappy guardians with low hp can be dropped fast because unlike backstab this can be fired fast and combined with fear in between.

Still trashy tho and insanely situational.

To offset the long cast time, you can use that death magic trait that applies AOE vulnerability. Then when you spend a lot of time in, you are also spamming vulnerability.

Dagger autoattack is sadly still much better for damage. And while it does indeed require you to be in melee range life blast requires you to be very close too in order to receive the damage boost. I think it could use a faster cast time. It really should outdamage dagger spamming.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

Dagger is better.

Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.

Better? No.

Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.

Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.

More dps = better. Melee isnt hard. Theres very little challenging content when in a group in gw2.

I prefer axe for:

1) Better DS blasts
2) AoE for tagging, cripple, retal and boon stripping
3) Ranged attack for when melee is a bad idea (WvW, Lupicus, that sort of thing)
4) Kiting in WvW/sPvP

Dagger is good, the DPS is higher and the LF gen is better, but as of recent patches it’s no longer flat out “better”. You’re welcome to keep using dagger, but promoting it as absolutely better is wilfully ignorant at best and daft at worst.

nah you got it backwards there at the end, you probably mixed up your weapons too for that matter.

Dredlord.8076:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

Dagger is better.

Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.

Better? No.

Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.

Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.

More dps = better. Melee isnt hard. Theres very little challenging content when in a group in gw2.

I prefer axe for:

1) Better DS blasts
2) AoE for tagging, cripple, retal and boon stripping
3) Ranged attack for when melee is a bad idea (WvW, Lupicus, that sort of thing)
4) Kiting in WvW/sPvP

Dagger is good, the DPS is higher and the LF gen is better, but as of recent patches it’s no longer flat out “better”. You’re welcome to keep using dagger, but promoting it as absolutely better is wilfully ignorant at best and daft at worst.

nah you got it backwards there at the end, you probably mixed up your weapons too for that matter.

My apologies Dredlord, do you wish it to be known you associate the listed traits with dagger?

So very trolly in this thread. The time when one of our weapons is flat out better is over. Both are worth using, depending on situation and build.

Optimal weapon setup has and always will depend on both build and play style.

In a vacuum, and all things being equal:

Dagger does more damage and generates more life force.

Axe grants retaliation, strips boons, and applies vulnerability.

Whether or not one is better than the other depends on what you want to accomplish. Both can be better than the other; it is all about perspective.

I use it after ds#4 usually… it drops people pretty fast on a power build. If you are condition build its not going to do much for you however.

snaplemouton.1294:

I’m sorry, but elementalist are far better as terms of survival, even in zerker gear…
Necro only real defense aside from worm port is DS and it’s highly unreliable.
Elementalist, even with low vitality, got the biggest toolkit in the game with it’s 20 weapon skills and super defensive utilities. And aside from stealth, you couldn’t ask for more ways to get out of danger.

Zerker Eles melt like snowflakes. They’re fun and can beat other glass builds, but only if they get the jump on them. Vapor Form can make them almost impossible to kill if they’re within 3 seconds of an allied keep entrance portal, but any thief worth his stealth is going to melt a Zerker Ele in a fraction of a second. That 11k base health will go down to a single C&D+Backstab.

snaplemouton.1294:

And Axe on a necro is downright terrible. I have yet to see a more useless weapon in the game then Necro’s axe.

The Axe isn’t perfect but it has its uses.