Guild Wars 2

I main necro in PvE after taking a break from the game for a while and it’s just as good as it was before my break, but I haven’t touched any form of PvP yet. I honestly think necro is really strong in PvE but that’s the only part of the game I really play. I never see other necros that are extremely effective though.

So I was wondering because of all the complaining, do you guys think necro is bad in PvE? WvW? sPvP?

What I’m most interested to know is if you think necro is bad in PvE, why?

My main WvW profession is Necro, and I can say without a doubt that we’re crucial in large scale WvW. Our AoE capabilities are unrivaled, and marks are needed in a lot of situations like higher enemies or portals.

Current Necro state in PvE though is pretty bad. We have no support at all, and our dps doesn’t match other classes’es… I hope it changes with the coming of the Reaper, I saw some theory crafting with high potential and I hope Necro’s will be able to match other classes in Dps and PvE.

As for pvp, I’m not familiar enough with our current state there…

Actually, necro shines more in PvP and WvW than in PvE, so if you like it in PvE, you will surely love it in PvP and WvW. I have to say however, that I’ve been quite happy with my Necro in PvE also.

And don’t listen to the complaints. I’ve found most of the “we necros suck” type of complaints to be baseless. Play what you like. Necro is my first choice in every game mode and will stay that way no matter what.
Also, with DoT improvements and Reaper coming, we’re going to be a beast in PvE too.

Burjis.3087:

Actually, necro shines more in PvP and WvW than in PvE, so if you like it in PvE, you will surely love it in PvP and WvW. I have to say however, that I’ve been quite happy with my Necro in PvE also.

And don’t listen to the complaints. I’ve found most of the “we necros suck” type of complaints to be baseless. Play what you like. Necro is my first choice in every game mode and will stay that way no matter what.
Also, with DoT improvements and Reaper coming, we’re going to be a beast in PvE too.

I like it in PvE as a tank. I haven’t encountered another character in PvE groups that survives as well as my necro, not even guardians.

Actually they ruined my build for WvW. Before I took that break I was able to fit the trait to give wells casting range and I enjoyed it a lot in WvW. After the update I’ll be back in WvW for sure.

I’m kinda timid to talk about my build though because I am afraid people automatically think everything that’s not full berserker is horrible.

Khristophoros.7194:

Actually they ruined my build for WvW. Before I took that break I was able to fit the trait to give wells casting range and I enjoyed it a lot in WvW. After the update I’ll be back in WvW for sure.

Well ground targeting is going to be baseline for necromancers, so you will have that just for free after the patch.

Khristophoros.7194:

I’m kinda timid to talk about my build though because I am afraid people automatically think everything that’s not full berserker is horrible.

Unfortunately, that’s how PvE functions in this game. But to be honest, I’m interested to know what your build is.

Khristophoros.7194:

people automatically think everything that’s not full berserker is horrible.

Well, apart from Mesmers and Engis being good in Assassins stats they’re right. There’s no such thing as tanking in GW2’s PvE. Closest thing would be scenarios like the Ettin in uncategorized fractal where one player usually drags him around in a circle at the far end of the room far away from the other players so they can deal with the other mobs easier.

Burjis.3087:

Khristophoros.7194:

I’m kinda timid to talk about my build though because I am afraid people automatically think everything that’s not full berserker is horrible.

Unfortunately, that’s how PvE functions in this game. But to be honest, I’m interested to know what your build is.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQNBmQDrkkGt0smGW2geuJeGKpngAoZnOE+gTgqfA-ThSFABEcQAc4IA0mOAAeAA9pEsKlfopZAR1fCZ/hkvAABAOAmf+8tvBLv8yLv8yd9yLv8yLXKA6GaB-e

Well I join zerker groups anyway and they don’t know any better because I have a gimmick to drop a lot of AoE damage. Both wells + locust swarm, then autoattack. The quickness sigil on my dagger procs immediately because of all the separate crits that happen. My damage for those 5 seconds is really high, and the group bursts the boss down in about 5 seconds so my damage falling off isn’t an issue.

Of course the same gimmick with zerker would do higher burst but I don’t want to give up my survivability. I have a warrior for that. But having played both my zerker warrior and my necro a ton, my necro is just better.

For longer fights (mostly fractals) I have better uptime on my damage than anyone because of my survivability. It’s just more consistent even though I do less on paper.

I often switch Well of Corruption for other skills, usually Well of Power or Well of Darkness depending on the situation. Sometimes I switch the signet instead but usually not because the speed is nice and the heal is actually really good, 6k with 5 enemies.

And the siphons actually give me back a lot of health because I have a lot of AoE and separate individual hits. But it’s only good with high toughness.

Well I suppose almost everything I take is considered bad by most players. But this character works so well that I don’t care.

I think the support this build gives is pretty decent too. I give AoE protection from the wells and AoE regen from the staff.

The trait changes will be a huge buff because I won’t have to go death magic anymore and blood magic is getting huge buffs.

Aktium.9506:

Khristophoros.7194:

people automatically think everything that’s not full berserker is horrible.

Well, apart from Mesmers and Engis being good in Assassins stats they’re right. There’s no such thing as tanking in GW2’s PvE. Closest thing would be scenarios like the Ettin in uncategorized fractal where one player usually drags him around in a circle at the far end of the room far away from the other players so they can deal with the other mobs easier.

The more armor you have, the more aggro you get.

The only reason that isn’t relevant is in dungeons you just stack and burst everything. But like I said, I have a way to contribute enough burst for short periods of time.

In high level fractals where bosses have too much health for a group to burst I find my high armor very useful.

Khristophoros.7194:

I have a gimmick to drop a lot of AoE damage. Both wells + locust swarm, then autoattack

Uh huh. A “gimmick” you share with more or less every necro in PvE.

Khristophoros.7194:

But having played both my zerker warrior and my necro a ton, my necro is just better.

Utter rubbish. I play Warrior as well and its far superior in terms of damage and support via PS, EA and Banners.

Khristophoros.7194:

For longer fights (mostly fractals) I have better uptime on my damage than anyone because of my survivability. It’s just more consistent even though I do less on paper.

That’s a legit L2P issue. No offence.

Khristophoros.7194:

The more armor you have, the more aggro you get.

Toughness aggro isn’t exactly a secret. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are very few scenarios that require anything even remotely similar to traditional tanking.

Khristophoros.7194:

In high level fractals where bosses have too much health for a group to burst I find my high armor very useful.

The longer the fight drags on, which it will due to people being specced for “tanking”, the higher the chances are that someone will actually get downed and die. As long as the players aren’t terrible it is safer and better to put out as much damage as possible to end the fight as soon as possible.

It’s great that you have a build that you enjoy playing and everything, and you should continue to play said build even if it is bad. But acting like the class is on par with other classes in PvE, or PvP for that matter is sheer ignorance when there is readily available proof that it is not. Only in WvW does Necro shine.

You’re assuming I’m bad at warrior. No, the criteria I judge this on is how well the character can compensate for my group making mistakes. The warrior doesn’t do it as well as the necro does. It even carries complete trash groups through fractals.

Recently I had a group wipe on bloomhunger when I was on my warrior and I managed to solo it, so I don’t think I’m bad at warrior. But it would have been much easier with my necro.

Khristophoros.7194:

You’re assuming I’m bad at warrior. No, the criteria I judge this on is how well the character can compensate for my group making mistakes. The warrior doesn’t do it as well as the necro does. It even carries complete trash groups through fractals.

Recently I had a group wipe on bloomhunger when I was on my warrior and I managed to solo it, so I don’t think I’m bad at warrior. But it would have been much easier with my necro.

If i am running fractals and the group fails to wipe the floor with the boss in like 10 seconds, the last thing i want is a dude soloing the boss for 15 minutes to end up dead anyway.

I think everybody should play like they want, but you have to know by now that being tanky in this game only rewards the unskilled player.

The skilled player completely avoids damage, or kills the foe before the foe can kill him. Being tanky is not an asset in any way for that sort of play.

The fact that you decide to go for a tanky build doesn’t mean that you are not skilled, but it does mean that you lose a ton of damage for stats you don’t need if you are skilled.

And you cannot be serious to say the necro carries groups better than the warrior. The warrior, with his 25 stacks of might for everybody, banners, resurrects, and vulnerability stacking outshines the necro by just standing there….

Oh, and btw, being able to solo bloomhunger is not such a big deal, I do it from time to time with my zerker guardian (12k hp), it’s by far the easiest boss in fractals.

Khristophoros.7194:

Recently I had a group wipe on bloomhunger

When that happens it’s time to press the little button that says “leave party” because they wiped at motherkittening bloomhunger holy kitten.

You’re not supposed to have to solo anything in dungeons or fractals as long as your party isn’t a bunch of mouthbreathing idiots. And when it does happen it’s generally faster to just disengage and let everyone respawn unless the wipe happened at 20%-10% boss HP. If you judge a class’ worth on how well it can carry people who are making mistakes they shouldn’t be making in the first place something is very kittening wrong.

Zerg WvW necro is useful but so are guards war eles (three classes needed in all game modes).

Solo roaming necro takes some real high level skill but its fun and I enjoy it nerf to chill is going to make that playstyle pointless its already hard stopping runners.

PvP conquest necro is just focus fire fodder good players will CC you to death there is a reason top teams do not use Necro, in EU not a single necro or ranger in a top team.

PvE…. groups actually request NO Necros. I dont pve so dont care but I still think something is wrong there.

Khristophoros.7194:

You’re assuming I’m bad at warrior. No, the criteria I judge this on is how well the character can compensate for my group making mistakes. The warrior doesn’t do it as well as the necro does. It even carries complete trash groups through fractals.

Recently I had a group wipe on bloomhunger when I was on my warrior and I managed to solo it, so I don’t think I’m bad at warrior. But it would have been much easier with my necro.

Listen dude, you can play your tank necro build all you want, you can think your doing good all you want, but the fact of the matter is toughness, healing power, vitality, and the idea of tanking are not needed in pve. Being good in pve means you provide offensive buffs, utility, and/or high damage, necros don’t do this, and are therefore bad in pve. Warriors on the other hand are good because they provide these things. You may have your opinions about what works, but in terms of finishing dungeons quickly every single class is better than necromancers currently. Since that is the criteria that everyone in this game uses to define good in pve, necros are bad in pve.

In wvw, necros are meta in zergs because they provide massive aoe damage, boon corruption, blind, and chill. They are at best average at roaming because they lack the ability to disengage, and are therefore sitting ducks when outnumbered or low on health.

In pvp, necros are bottom tier with rangers because they are slow, can’t hold a point, and die more easily than every other class when focused in team fights. This can be worked around with certain team compositions, but in general isn’t worth it, which is why you see very few necros in gw2 pvp tournaments.

Xom.9264:

PvE…. groups actually request NO Necros. I dont pve so dont care but I still think something is wrong there.

that’s… not entirely true. I tried a few speed runs with my necro recently and had no trouble in joining those full zerk only groups. but if the group has no ele or no ps warrior, i feel i could be doing so much more……

Aenesthesia.1697:

Xom.9264:

PvE…. groups actually request NO Necros. I dont pve so dont care but I still think something is wrong there.

that’s… not entirely true. I tried a few speed runs with my necro recently and had no trouble in joining those full zerk only groups. but if the group has no ele or no ps warrior, i feel i could be doing so much more……

that were no speed runs that were regular meta runs. and no the necro kicking stopped but that doesnt mean playing a necro got better

Goldenrevolver.4371:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Xom.9264:

PvE…. groups actually request NO Necros. I dont pve so dont care but I still think something is wrong there.

that’s… not entirely true. I tried a few speed runs with my necro recently and had no trouble in joining those full zerk only groups. but if the group has no ele or no ps warrior, i feel i could be doing so much more……

that were no speed runs that were regular meta runs. and no the necro kicking stopped but that doesnt mean playing a necro got better

no, i didn’t try to join the meta lfgs, as i know necro is not meta and it would be dumb to try to join those. You can still speed clear a dungeon with a necro on the team, unless you go for world record.

And playing necro is not bad at all. The problem is all the things you could be doing for the team (including more damage) if you had a competitive class instead of the necro….

Basically, if you want to solo stuff in pve, you can mostly just put on tanky gear and go to town. This however you can do on any class and it is not an actual indicator of anything.

In group play, necro is not a viable tanking option because outside of soaking up damage (which basically any class can do if specced for it) it does not actually provide anything to your group: no (or really marginaly) healing, no boons, no utility. As for other options: power necros have high dps (which others also have), but again no support. Condi necros actually apply lower condi pressure than most other condi builds and, as you might have guessed already, again bring very little else to the group.

Unfortunately, the few things that necros are actually vastly better at than others: corrupting boons, transferring conditions and applying chill are currently hardly useful in pve and not powerful enough in pvp.

Aenesthesia.1697:

no, i didn’t try to join the meta lfgs, as i know necro is not meta and it would be dumb to try to join those. You can still speed clear a dungeon with a necro on the team, unless you go for world record.

And playing necro is not bad at all. The problem is all the things you could be doing for the team (including more damage) if you had a competitive class instead of the necro....

sry if i offended u. i meant that every decent group with decent meta players who casually do a dungeon without any problem because everybody already knows every possible scenerio is no speed clear. nobody who knows the current dps charts for all classes should even consider to kick a zerker necro as its dps is not far off of other classes. the only thing is if u need some special type of utility like stealth or reflect to make the specific dungeon run go flawlessly the class with the least use for the group should swap class.
i main necro and my guild has no problems when i run it in dungeons. but i regulaly swap class when we need something different. its fine to play necro and im glad we both know that

In PvE Necromancers are outclassed in every role
In WvW zergs, Necromancers are the “N” in the GWEN meta, and are thus vital
In WvW roaming, Necromancer has great 1v1 matchups with common roaming specs, but has no mobility and can be very easy to take down due to inability to escape pressure
In sPvP, Necromancer is ineffective due to lack of support options and inability to escape pressure

Basically, we shine in zergs, but fall short everywhere else.

im trying to wrap my mind as to how a necro doent bring anythign to a party?

1) dpser and group healer all in 1 toon?
2) AE heals on skill 4 of DS

2) spec well/vamp/power

3) dps is low? how is that? 3k dagger and lifeforce bolts hits is low?

4) just how exactly?—- in many of these O no a necro! groups, many of the times I am the last one standing, I rez all these fools using my signet, and we fin off the boss.

Its a ignorant stero type. I am not sure wh created the META site, but that person is a fool.

Necromancer is bad at teamwork, no matter the game mode. That’s all. It wouldn’t be an issue if teamwork wasn’t a thing in this game but it is.

punahou.3986:

im trying to wrap my mind as to how a necro doent bring anythign to a party?

1) dpser and group healer all in 1 toon?
2) AE heals on skill 4 of DS

2) spec well/vamp/power

3) dps is low? how is that? 3k dagger and lifeforce bolts hits is low?

4) just how exactly?—- in many of these O no a necro! groups, many of the times I am the last one standing, I rez all these fools using my signet, and we fin off the boss.

Its a ignorant stero type. I am not sure wh created the META site, but that person is a fool.

Heals are useless in PvE. Any heals you might need can be covered by a single dps staff ele switching to water for a water field.

Yes dps is low. You cant look at this in a vacuum. Necros dps isnt terrible but it isnt great either. Necro has one of the lowest sustained dps of any class in PvE. A big reason for this is the lack of damage modifier traits and high damage coefficient skills the necro has compared to other classes. Necro has good front load burst but its completely outclassed by ele and conjures. The other classes all bring something unique to the gametype to give them a place.

Guardian provides blocks, reflects and stability. Thief provides stealth, mobility and spammable finishers. Mesmer provides reflects, utility and portals. Warrior provides banners, EA and perma 25 might. Ele provides the best damage (AOE), conjures, fury, combo finishers out the kitten , aoe swiftness, might and loads of other utility in varying degrees. Then you have engi which is good at vuln, a small amount of stealth and perma immob. And ranger which provides spotter, frost spirit and some other small utility.

The necro doesnt have this small utility that all the other classes have that is useful to PvE. This mostly includes projectile defence, finishers, useful combo fields, unique buffs, group boons and unique utility. Necro also has no additional active defence. Which means in some fights the necro is completely reliant on other classes carrying them.

That said the changes coming into the game next week are improving things. Necros damage should be better. They will have some unique group buffing (vampiric presence). Some unique utility in the form of ressing downed allies (will be mostly useless however). And conditions will be better so there may be more desirability for necros simply because of epidemic (necros actual condi damage is weaker than warriors and engis).

The class will still lack specialised unique utility of meaningful value, reliable combo finishers and active defence to become truly self reliant in difficult encounters. So necro will probably still be bottom of the barrel no matter what happens. A few more core issues being addressed and better content will ensure the difference is so small that its not worth worrying about. But we arent at that stage yet.

PS. Sorry for rambling wall of text. Went on a bit of a rant. x)

edit: spoj beat me to it.

Anet needs to get it through their heads that classes that don’t provide a lot of boons, need to provide something unique. I’ve always felt necros should have 2-3 unique group buffs to make up for the fact that we don’t get many boons. They took a good step by giving us aoe vampiric, but it needs to scale with power if it’s going to be useful in pve.