Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
Where's the love?
If anything I think our power builds need a little love. As it stands, condition builds are the most powerful of the Necro builds, AND they have Epidemic. Right now as a power build, you’re pigeon holed into using close range daggers. Being a close range clothie means you’re going to get destroyed unless you spec vitality and toughness, but doing so sacrifices all damage output, completely negating the point of being a power build.
If anything I think our power builds need a little love. As it stands, condition builds are the most powerful of the Necro builds, AND they have Epidemic. Right now as a power build, you’re pigeon holed into using close range daggers. Being a close range clothie means you’re going to get destroyed unless you spec vitality and toughness, but doing so sacrifices all damage output, completely negating the point of being a power build.
Or you can figure out how to make Life Blast your auto-attack. 900 range and hits like a hammer. Slow attack speed though.
EDIT: Whoops wrong topic. Anyways, for conditions, There’s some love in the 33% increased condition duration for all scepter skills, (and frankly, scepter would be a solid source of bleeds and poison!) and you can never ignore the power of Epidemic. It might sound like giving a free pass on condition issues, but Epidemic really is a strong skill with an oddly low recharge. Terror also makes Fear be a pretty hard hitting limited access condition. There’s a build floating around called “Fear is My Weapon”, that shows how far you can push that particular idea.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Just saying, but we do have limited access to Confusion. It requires us comboing with Spectral Wall.
I mean, condition damage love,
How about our 5% toughness converted in condition damage as the mesmers?
How about our 50% bleeding duration like the warriors?
Where’s our LIMITED access to burning or confusion (yep i said limited access, otherwise could be a little op),
Can you imagine people saying “my god there’s a necro get the hell out, kitten man… those necro are so op”?,
I’d say the first one could replace the jagged horror, (taking in consideration the tree itself give us toughness), and hemophilia could be improved a 20% – 30% percent,
As for limited access to burning or confusion, i mean, really limited like a 25% on crits with a 30 sec cooldown, (this would need to be a trait, otherwise won’t work with sigil of earth),
Last time anet promised “love” they nerfed scepter bleeds by ~30%. No thx.
Wheres John Peters when you need him… I need his famous “l2deathshroud” speech.
Oh wait…
His cooldown on visiting necro forums is 3 months.
His cooldown on visiting necro forums is 3 months.
The devs typically don’t post on the profession forums.
Possibly because they are cesspits of terrible posts.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I mean, condition damage love,
How about our 5% toughness converted in condition damage as the mesmers?
How about our 50% bleeding duration like the warriors?
Where’s our LIMITED access to burning or confusion (yep i said limited access, otherwise could be a little op),
Can you imagine people saying “my god there’s a necro get the hell out, kitten man… those necro are so op”?,
I’d say the first one could replace the jagged horror, (taking in consideration the tree itself give us toughness), and hemophilia could be improved a 20% – 30% percent,
As for limited access to burning or confusion, i mean, really limited like a 25% on crits with a 30 sec cooldown, (this would need to be a trait, otherwise won’t work with sigil of earth),
Although it would be quite nice to see these added as profession related “fixes” I try to do what I can to work around these problems as follows:
1) [partial workaround] I know it isn’t included as a trait, but if you use crystals as your buff food (lack of a better term) then you can get toughness and Vitality to boost your condi damage and crystals are easy to make and/or cheap to buy.
edit: also the Superior rune of the Undead (6) 5% of your toughness becomes condi damage
2) [no solution] in a perfect world we would have a nice boost to our duration(s), but it’s not as if we’re masters of the dead or anything.. we really should have a master trait that boosts all bleeding/poison durration by 50%. Better yet add a new condition called disease that is Necro only!
3) [workaround kinda] I use superior sigils of fire on my main hand weapon (dagger) as this allows for a chance at an AOE (meant as cleave effect) that we don’t have with any of our weapons. I know the standard is earth, but even with it’s 60% chance it is only stacks a condition we already should have on the critter. The fire one only has a 30% chance of firing but it is an AOE and I find when using CURSES (25) Target the weak I get a 2% boost for having the extra condi on it. It may not be the way many would go, but for me it works.
Just some brain droppings of mine.. i too think as necros we deserve to standout in a crowd.
(edited by Tommyknocker.6089)
If anything I think our power builds need a little love. As it stands, condition builds are the most powerful of the Necro builds, AND they have Epidemic. Right now as a power build, you’re pigeon holed into using close range daggers. Being a close range clothie means you’re going to get destroyed unless you spec vitality and toughness, but doing so sacrifices all damage output, completely negating the point of being a power build.
Wrong thread, but thanks anyway,
Anyways, for conditions, There’s some love in the 33% increased condition duration for all scepter skills, (and frankly, scepter would be a solid source of bleeds and poison!) and you can never ignore the power of Epidemic. It might sound like giving a free pass on condition issues, but Epidemic really is a strong skill with an oddly low recharge. Terror also makes Fear be a pretty hard hitting limited access condition. There’s a build floating around called “Fear is My Weapon”, that shows how far you can push that particular idea.
33% on scepter is almost useless except for cripple and the poison duration,
A necromancer wants 100% condition duration due barbed precision, any bleeding lasting more than 10 seconds is a removed bleeding, and i’d love to use my undead runes instead 2x krait 2x lyssa and 2x afflicted, (even if i had to spend 4 silver each 30 min on pizza),
And yes, of course, epidemic is our best skill in the game without any doubt, in fact the only reason i keep playing my necro,
Just saying, but we do have limited access to Confusion. It requires us comboing with Spectral Wall.
I know, but this is really limited, and spectral wall suck tbh,
Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
I mean, condition damage love,
How about our 5% toughness converted in condition damage as the mesmers?
How about our 50% bleeding duration like the warriors?
Where’s our LIMITED access to burning or confusion (yep i said limited access, otherwise could be a little op),
Can you imagine people saying “my god there’s a necro get the hell out, kitten man… those necro are so op”?,
I’d say the first one could replace the jagged horror, (taking in consideration the tree itself give us toughness), and hemophilia could be improved a 20% – 30% percent,
As for limited access to burning or confusion, i mean, really limited like a 25% on crits with a 30 sec cooldown, (this would need to be a trait, otherwise won’t work with sigil of earth),
Although it would be quite nice to see these added as profession related “fixes” I try to do what I can to work around these problems as follows:
1) [partial workaround] I know it isn’t included as a trait, but if you use crystals as your buff food (lack of a better term) then you can get toughness and Vitality to boost your condi damage and crystals are easy to make and/or cheap to buy.
edit: also the Superior rune of the Undead (6) 5% of your toughness becomes condi damage
2) [no solution] in a perfect world we would have a nice boost to our duration(s), but it’s not as if we’re masters of the dead or anything.. we really should have a master trait that boosts all bleeding/poison durration by 50%. Better yet add a new condition called disease that is Necro only!
3) [workaround kinda] I use superior sigils of fire on my main hand weapon (dagger) as this allows for a chance at an AOE (meant as cleave effect) that we don’t have with any of our weapons. I know the standard is earth, but even with it’s 60% chance it is only stacks a condition we already should have on the critter. The fire one only has a 30% chance of firing but it is an AOE and I find when using CURSES (25) Target the weak I get a 2% boost for having the extra condi on it. It may not be the way many would go, but for me it works.
Just some brain droppings of mine.. i too think as necros we deserve to standout in a crowd.
We posted at the same time Tommyknocker,
I use cristals and pizza all the time and I’d love to use the runes as i said, but i can´t, and it’s a shame because i have a lot of toughness,
Note apart the superior sigil of fire It’s a nice AOE but it’s not burning damage, the damage is based on your power,
Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
I stand corrected, and although it doesn’t actually apply a burning aura (dumb IMO) it does the job of damaging more than one. I do have a different dagger with Sup run of earth I use when I have to pick off single targets I carry. My power isn’t to bad @ (80) 1810 attack @ 2791 (full knights) so it does seem to get their attention.
On a side note I used to use pizzas, but I found that using mixed berry pies (omni are far too expensive) the heal on crit synchronizes nicely with my precision and makes me much more tanky.
33% on scepter is almost useless except for cripple and the poison duration,
A necromancer wants 100% condition duration due barbed precision, any bleeding lasting more than 10 seconds is a removed bleeding, and i’d love to use my undead runes instead 2x krait 2x lyssa and 2x afflicted, (even if i had to spend 4 silver each 30 min on pizza)
Yeah, if only the scepter had an easy, frequent source of bleeds, that were around 3-5 seconds long , or maybe even poison ?
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
33% on scepter is almost useless except for cripple and the poison duration,
A necromancer wants 100% condition duration due barbed precision, any bleeding lasting more than 10 seconds is a removed bleeding, and i’d love to use my undead runes instead 2x krait 2x lyssa and 2x afflicted, (even if i had to spend 4 silver each 30 min on pizza)
Yeah, if only the scepter had an easy, frequent source of bleeds, that were around 3-5 seconds long , or maybe even poison ?
Mmmm you misunderstood, my english is not very good so it’s probably my own fault,
I mean 10 seconds because the auto attack with scepter applies a 5 seconds bleeding, with 100% bleeding duration that’s 10 seconds, extending that to 13.3 seconds is useless, condition that needs to be extended are the shortest ones ( like barbed precision and fear), 10 seconds is already a lot, and probably will be cleaned before ending,
And yes, the 33% it’s usefull to the criple and poison, even when most healing removes the poison first,
Regards,
PD: The duration of redering curse is mispelled, actually last 5 seconds,
Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
(edited by Engels.8537)
Actual question: if a critical from a scepter skill procs Barbed Precision, does Lingering Curse apply to it?
EDIT: I did, in fact, misunderstand what you meant. I didn’t realize that you were in the context of building a 100% multiplier to bleed durations, which I honestly think is misplaced stats even taking the power of barbed precision into account. I also still find the assertion that ‘any bleed that lasts more than 10 seconds will be removed’ iffy, but I’m not experienced with the contexts that give rise to that school of thought.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Actual question: if a critical from a scepter skill procs Barbed Precision, does Lingering Curse apply to it?
Sadly no, only affects the 1 and 2 skills from scepter
EDIT: I did, in fact, misunderstand what you meant. I didn’t realize that you were in the context of building a 100% multiplier to bleed durations, which I honestly think is misplaced stats even taking the power of barbed precision into account. I also still find the assertion that ‘any bleed that lasts more than 10 seconds will be removed’ iffy, but I’m not experienced with the contexts that give rise to that school of thought.
A easy example is blood is power, a 1 minute bleeding will never tick 60 times, it will be cleaned before, decent players have 2 or more ways to clean conditions, and conditions are easy removed,
On the other hand, a two seconds barbed precision often will tick two times, that’s +140 damage,
It’s always recomended to focus on 100% bleeding duration just for the extra tick of barbed precision,
Maxing your condition damage with runes and misc will result in bleeds a little bit stronger, (maybe 5 or 6 points above), loosing the 140 of barbed precision,
Unless you are able to maintain 12+ bleeds on your target all the time, it’s recomended to focus on 100% bleeding duration, and then focus on your condition damage,
PD: I’m assuming you know conditions only deal damage for full seconds,
Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
I just realized this conversation shifted from me trying to say “Withering Precision is good guys just trust me” to “Condition Duration is / isn’t useful after you have a 100% bonus”. Frankly I could be wrong on that: maybe you do need that 100% duration or else your build is the suxxors.
But I’m not going to bother with the issue of having too much condition duration. I’m just going to recommend you remove this:
How about our 50% bleeding duration like the warriors?
From your opening post.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Unless you are able to maintain 12+ bleeds on your target all the time, it’s recomended to focus on 100% bleeding duration, and then focus on your condition damage,
PD: I’m assuming you know conditions only deal damage for full seconds,
Well, since I have 0% condition duration and I’m easily able to keep 12+ bleeds on a target (no hemophilia), I guess I’ll just keep focusing my condition damage. I do so love seeing that 1450+ Terror tick twice.
Also, I’m not sure where exactly people got the idea that Dagger doesn’t cleave. It does. It is a very small area, but it does indeed cleave.
Also, I’m not sure where exactly people got the idea that Dagger doesn’t cleave. It does. It is a very small area, but it does indeed cleave.
Yea I figured, even if I dont have a target and swing it will still hit what ever is in front.
Kilger – Human Ranger
alts: Fangyre (Necro), Hardrawk (Ele);
Jade Quarry
alts: Fangyre (Necro), Hardrawk (Ele);
Jade Quarry
Also, I’m not sure where exactly people got the idea that Dagger doesn’t cleave. It does. It is a very small area, but it does indeed cleave.
Yea I figured, even if I dont have a target and swing it will still hit what ever is in front.
Wait what?? Dagger will hit something if you swing at it without having it selected, but I am almost positive it doesn’t cleave on anything, just like the thief dagger attack. Cleave being that it hits more than 1 target. I guess I will need to find two people in spvp and ask them to stand on top of each other to test. In either case if it does cleave a tiny area, its completly useless in PVE where mobs collide, and basically useless in PVP where people rarely stand right on top of each other for extended periods of time (the cleave aspect, not the dagger itself).
EDIT: And to the OP, I would love confusion, but frankly necros are already very hard for some classes to deal with, and the addition of confusion would be awesome, but it would be pretty uncharacteristic of the class in general. I also believe barbed precision at 100% bleed is a must for any condition build.
And to Drar, I can’t imagine why you would run a condition build with no duration. While I agree getting to 100% is somewhat of a scarifice, it is not a sacrifice at all to get to say 50% increase duration. I could rock (roughly) the same damage stats as you and have 50% duration. My terror also ticks for upwards of 1370 (with no undead runes). The only real advantage to your setup is the toughness to condition damage runes, which is a big sacrifice for no duration.
To me the logical argument is not that your player opponent is going to clear the conditions, but rather how long will your new bleeds after that clear stay on them. If its a guardian or a ele with multiple passive clears, forget about it, but pretty much everyone else is only running 0-2 condition clears, with 30ish second cooldowns.
I have shown the logical behind it before, but giving up the undead runes damage for duration is almost always worth it, just because of barbed precision, if your crit rate is high.
(edited by Rennoko.5731)
Actually, PvE is where you notice it most. Back away from melee mobs and they will get close together as they follow. Then you see the damage numbers hitting each one.
Also, I’m not sure where exactly people got the idea that Dagger doesn’t cleave. It does. It is a very small area, but it does indeed cleave.
Yea I figured, even if I dont have a target and swing it will still hit what ever is in front.
Wait what?? Dagger will hit something if you swing at it without having it selected, but I am almost positive it doesn’t cleave on anything, just like the thief dagger attack. Cleave being that it hits more than 1 target. I guess I will need to find two people in spvp and ask them to stand on top of each other to test. In either case if it does cleave a tiny area, its completly useless in PVE where mobs collide, and basically useless in PVP where people rarely stand right on top of each other for extended periods of time (the cleave aspect, not the dagger itself).
EDIT: And to the OP, I would love confusion, but frankly necros are already very hard for some classes to deal with, and the addition of confusion would be awesome, but it would be pretty uncharacteristic of the class in general. I also believe barbed precision at 100% bleed is a must for any condition build.
And to Drar, I can’t imagine why you would run a condition build with no duration. While I agree getting to 100% is somewhat of a scarifice, it is not a sacrifice at all to get to say 50% increase duration. I could rock (roughly) the same damage stats as you and have 50% duration. My terror also ticks for upwards of 1370 (with no undead runes). The only real advantage to your setup is the toughness to condition damage runes, which is a big sacrifice for no duration.
To me the logical argument is not that your player opponent is going to clear the conditions, but rather how long will your new bleeds after that clear stay on them. If its a guardian or a ele with multiple passive clears, forget about it, but pretty much everyone else is only running 0-2 condition clears, with 30ish second cooldowns.
I have shown the logical behind it before, but giving up the undead runes damage for duration is almost always worth it, just because of barbed precision, if your crit rate is high.
You agree with me because i learned a lot from your posts, so that’s not a surprise, in fact I’m the one who agree with you, one of the best necros on this forum,
Maybe the confusion would be OP, you are right, anyway as I said before if we would be able to inflict confusion or burning it would be in a very limmited way, anyway it’s not necesary be able to inflict those conditions,
On the other hand i think we really need some way to improve our condition duration, (bleeding specifically), condition duration is so important and it’s so hard to get it apart from food and traits,
The spite tree sucks, and i mean really really sucks, have to invest 30 points just for the 30% condition duration sucks,
Well, to be honest… our traits are a mess, a mixed bunch of things, many of them not working as intended or not working at all, that’s another story,
EDIT: How about our 5% toughness converted in condition damage as the mesmers?
I’d love to see this instead the jagged horror,
Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
(edited by Engels.8537)
Also, I’m not sure where exactly people got the idea that Dagger doesn’t cleave. It does. It is a very small area, but it does indeed cleave.
Oh this is good news! And from our foremost necro “expert” drarnor!!!
Tell us more about our cleaving dagger…
i havent played in weeks, please show us screenshots and video of you cleaving all the live long day with your dagger.