Guild Wars 2

JoAT MoN = Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

I’ve noticed that people in these forums call Necromancers the Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but at the same time I see Mesmers calling themselves Jack of All Trades, Master of None as well.

Also, I see people in these forums saying that Necromancers are the most balanced profession, but at the same time I see Mesmers saying that they are the most balanced profession.

So just wondering which profession is the most balanced and which profession is the number 1 Jack of All Trades, Master of None?

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

I’d argue that the fact that Necromancers have such a huge variety of viable builds shows that we are more balanced than Mesmers, who have 2-3 builds per game mode. For the other part, they are both wrong. There are niche uses for both classes that no one else can do.

Mesmer’s can do everything, but they are more specialists. Necromancers are far from specialists, we do a little bit of everything regardless of how we spec.

By efficiency – necro, by build count – mesmer, by options in build utility – engie

Engineers can do most things, just not as well as other classes.

Budg.3064:

Engineers can do most things, just not as well as other classes.

Necros can do most things, just not as good as other classes and for twice as long! So there!

PinCushion.7390:

Budg.3064:

Engineers can do most things, just not as well as other classes.

Necros can do most things, just not as good as other classes and for twice as long! So there!

Problems with those statements is it doesnt explain how each class works with it, engies can build into anything, necros by nature have a bit of everything and unlike on a engie where you then have to focus other traits and build around what aspects you want to be good at, you can pretty much go random kitten on necro traits and still only have little difference in damage while losing nothing in efficiency (except maybe if you got 20 into dm, but thats the reanimator is useless problem not class weakness).

In a RPG Necros would be the enemy turned friend like magus in Chrono trigger, having high base stats thust being good at everything (if you want to) but never really moving away from that point/you cannot specialize and be truly great, while engies are Chrono, you decide what to build and it will kinda work with other aspects being basic (not good just basic).
Classes by general setup would be: ~
Necro – Mighty Glacier/Dangerous Forbidden Technique(aka lich),
Guardian – Bruiser/Why Won’t You Die?,
Ele – Healing Lightning Bruiser,
Warrior – Glass Cannon or Stone Wall/Crippling Overspecialization,
Mesmer – Inverse Law Of Complexity To Power/Crippling Overspecialization,
Theif – Fragile Speedster, Conservation of Ninjutsu
Engie – Inverse Law of Utility and Lethality/Explosive Overclocking (if going for damage)
Ranger – Why Won’t You Die?(healer)/The Chessmaster(trappe/spirit)

PinCushion.7390:

Budg.3064:

Engineers can do most things, just not as well as other classes.

Necros can do most things, just not as good as other classes and for twice as long! So there!

this pretty much nails it.

PinCushion.7390:

Budg.3064:

Engineers can do most things, just not as well as other classes.

Necros can do most things, just not as good as other classes and for twice as long! So there!

Haha, possibly. Care to elaborate?

In turn ill make make my post clearer, but keep in mind this is all my opinion based on my personal experience.

Engineers can do a few things that other classes/builds can do, albeit not as well, in a single build. In the same weapon, trait and utility set up without having to swap any of them between fights. I would rate a 4 kit engineer as more versatile than an elementalist.

Necromancers can do what other classes/builds can do but only when heavily traiting and speccing for it. And then, unlike engineers, necros are stuck like this and only excel in this one aspect and suck at everything else. Situation changes mid battle? Too bad, better run awa… nope, looks like you didnt bring Spectral Walk or Flesh Worm to this party, looks like you get to eat dirt. Anyway, ill cut this short here before I go off on a rant.

That is the design of the engineer; to be able to adapt via kits. The cost of that is those types of “I can do everything” builds are going to be worse in every situation than any kind of specialized build. The problem is that this game doesn’t really reward you for that, it might be nice for a new player who doesn’t know what to expect, but in all aspects of the game, you are much better of specializing into a single area and maximizing your efficiency in that role, than being average at a bunch of things.

Rok.5260:

JoAT MoN = Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

I’ve noticed that people in these forums call Necromancers the Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but at the same time I see Mesmers calling themselves Jack of All Trades, Master of None as well.

Also, I see people in these forums saying that Necromancers are the most balanced profession, but at the same time I see Mesmers saying that they are the most balanced profession.

So just wondering which profession is the most balanced and which profession is the number 1 Jack of All Trades, Master of None?

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Due to the subjective nature of the question, there is no right answer… If mesmers could only heal, and necromancers could only do damage… mesmers would say that without their healing the necromancers would never survive to do the damage therefor they are more important. Necromancers would then claim that all the healing in the world would not kill you the monsters in a dungeon therefor clearly they are the most important.

Things are not as simple with builds, therefor people tend to overlook this… all classes and all builds can be good if they are done right, and therefor they contribute to a party…

Everyone seems to want warriors with them… what would you take in a team, a bad build warrior or a good build necromancer ?

People have taken this freedom “no more holy trinity” way too far… You would be surprise just how easy some dungeons are with a healing necromancer in your team.

Bottom line is… it’s hard to tell if classes are balance, because it’s not just about the numbers, it’s also about the subjective nature of what people find more important. Burst or sustain ?… DPS, tanking or healing ?

I find that there are a lot of strong necromancer builds that far outshine other classes and their own similar build if the player works in a solid Death Shroud to their build. The key to survival mid fight with the necro is having a reliable recharge rate and bolstered toolset in DS. Our heal skill is great and all, but our regeneration resources are low-average and trying to pump healing power is a waste of a stat bonus on gear given that we’re already spread thin currently.

to work over that, pumping either vitality for BHP focus or toughness for divisible damage mitigation are good ways to not only cover the base defense of all necromancers, but to improve the survivability in DS. In many cases, keeping a 1:1 balance on vit and toughness is a good way to go. If a player chooses to break ratio and pump either one more than the other, it would be ideal to cover their defensive weakness with a specified trait setup that allows them to fight to their advantage/disadvantage.

The lack of the trinity makes it so that when we push our builds to be more offensive stat-wise, it requires selective traits and playstyle to avoid taking damage or surviving.

I’ve found in a lot of cases, though, that a good player can take a warrior, build it specific to a purpose (like passive-heal tanking with shout cleansing/healing and burst tactics in dungeons) and outshine an equally or superior geared necro speccing for the same purpose. I’ve come to realize that each of the classes has a slight growth potential over other classes in specific areas, and knowing your class limits as well as building to cover your class weakness at the same time as conservatively bolstering your offensive measures secondarily after the fact of figuring out your strategic defense is the best way to make solid builds.

I’ve played with plenty of people who have shown me their tricks of the trade, and i can vouch for the necro being not a Jack of all trades, master of none… but a jack of all trades, master of one. And you have to choose what that one thing is— with exception to being mediocre to other things simultaneously. Usually, this sort of shoe-horning disability angers players and makes them claim that the necromancer is kitten But in reality, it just shows that this class has a solid proficiency in many things while being strong in one area. Maybe not the best in a specific strategy, but definitely strong while maintaining horizontal proficiency in other tactics. I can only assume its because of our mixed access to power/conditions and boon converters combined with cripples and poisons.

If you watch players like tokyomurai, powerr, etc. that push the 30/30/x builds that rely completely on smart gameplay to survive, you’ll see how they use 1/3 of their util slots for a defensive stunbreak or mobility skill as well as judicious use of death shroud to either mitigate damage or to interrupt before a combo. These sort of players change their trait spread a lot depending on what they’re going up against, and sometimes you just really have to switch out pumping vitality for precision or toughness for crit damage, or just grabbing that rampager set/amulet for that oddball build.

personally, my main necro sits in PvE/WvW with a slightly twisted variation of my jugg build that i believe i posted for archiving on necronotes.blog.com and that’s because its a steady contender in those game modes. in s/tpvp though, i do NOT play a bunker double-defensive necromancer. i either go 30/30/x, 30/10/0/0/30 or 0/30/10/10/20 depending whether or not i want to rock rabid, soldier, knight, or berserker.

necromancers need to break out of the age-old cliche of sticking to one “master build” that they think is the best because it’s meant to be the perfect match for themselves in every game mode. The strong players have builds for everything they do, and that’s because they learn about their class and know it well enough to do that.

New players get frustrated mid-way through their time with the necro, and more seasoned players see the necro as a powerful tool for playing a role that they need for a team, a map, a battle, a dungeon, a game mode, etc. and with positive mental attitude and determination, a strong player + necro + a goal in mind will outshine and dominate other classes singlehanded.

But, we lose just as much as other classes. We really do. As I stated before, that horizontal mediocre proficiency in other variables makes it hard for us to contend with other classes who specify for something minute.

Nemesis.8593:

Due to the subjective nature of the question, there is no right answer… If mesmers could only heal, and necromancers could only do damage… mesmers would say that without their healing the necromancers would never survive to do the damage therefor they are more important. Necromancers would then claim that all the healing in the world would not kill you the monsters in a dungeon therefor clearly they are the most important.

Problem is the paradox is still true, even in gw2 despite how its hidden, a condition application character is helping the burst crit dps with chill and weakness, a boon spammer with aoe healing is doing the same, helping dps, if they werent there he would probably die at least 4-5 more times than when they are there; on the other hand if there were no dps chara thats doing the damage the condition and booner would stick there for about 2 to 3 times as long making the fight just as annoying, everyone is just as important for the goal.

I thought Eles were the Jack of All Trades? Warriors are Jacked on All Traits (pvp).