Guild Wars 2

I looked back over a lot of recent posts, including my own, and I realized that an overwhelming majority of the posts are negative. I include myself in this matter, because I am perhaps one of the more overly negative posters on this forum. Why is that? I kept asking myself why the heck would I get so negative about a game. In all honesty, I am not entirely sure, but I will only speak for myself. This is really the only class I play (or played as i took a hiatus to travel). I don’t like the other classes as much and I always return to the necro.

I think, for one, I have played this game since beta, and I have greatly enjoyed most aspects of it. WvW is what I love the most, as I find it a challenge to face the odds most necromancers face in the game. We are slow, tough, and can lay waste if we catch an enemy off guard. We are decent roaming, and we are great in a zerg (though I tend to avoid zergs because, well, they are boring to me.)

So why am I negative? I think it has to do with the disparity between what I would like to see the class become, what it is, and what it will be. Maybe my version is different than the devs, and no matter how much I push, it just simply go the way they want it to. It is not necessarily a bad thing, it just differs from what I want to see. So, how does one cope with that? I think, for myself, I should just relax and play the game. Having a voice, especially a negative one, does nothing more than serve to spin myself up, and ultimately get ignored haha. So for me, I think I am going to withhold my negative comments, and just relax and enjoy the game. Perhaps we could all do just that, and maybe come up with constructive ways to deal with some of the unbalanced aspects of the game, at least until another game comes along with something more appealing. Thus, I apologize for being a negative dork.

Anyone come up with any useful “theoretical” new builds to incorporate the new traits? Are there new builds? Did we just get tougher as condition mancers? Are there new tank/turtle builds? Would that do any good to be tougher and not be able to do any good damage?

My god. This is perhaps the most delightfully refreshing post I’ve seen in a long time. Thanks for this, Gryph. My “Faith in Humanity” just gained a level.

I would absolutely love to see certain things in this game, but ultimately I have no control over it, so I tend to try to just roll with any punches and provide feedback when and where I can/want. The truth is, for me, GW2 comes closer than any other MMO has in being the “perfect” MMO. There are really only a couple things that can really put me in the red, and I just try to not let those small things keep me from enjoying the rest of the game.

As far as tanky builds, I really want to try a tanky siphon build post-changes, at least for a second, just to see how it feels. Either a 6/0/6/0/2, or maybe 0/0/6/6/2, or maybe 0/4/6/0/4. Heck, it’ll be free to switch it up and around, so why not dabble?

Anyway, good on you for realizing that at the end of the day, there’s a lot to enjoy and getting super irritated on the forums can deprive you of a fun hobby for, really, almost no reason.

(I refuse to use the new nomenclature for traits… small numbers boring)

I think I am so up-beat because of how far down my list the game had fallen. I am very particular about balancing in games, and when NOTHING happens for months, it really gets me peeved.

That said, I think there are going to be a lot of interesting builds to look into for condition users (saddly none that I can think of for power users).

My current plans are to try:

30/30/0/0/10 – Very much the way it is today, with less effective burning but the addition of the boon corrupt in curses. I think I will like this most as it has the highest offensive potential. Staying with dire for this.

30/20/0/20/0 – The “can sustain really work?!?!” build. Taking the new healing trait in spite, with the crit siphon trait, and Deathly invig – in a full RABID setup to maximize healing changes. Hell I might even try to use the signet to supplement.

0/20/30/0/20 – Sort of like a classic necro build from pre-burning, for trying out the new regen trait (apoc gear is likely). The condition pressure is going to be low, but the new traits should give it a lot more DS favored sustain.

0/0/10/30/30 – The WvW zerg heal build… Clerics gear and the new traits in both trees with vit. persist to be able to stay in DS pretty much indefinately. Firing off random piercing bolts all over th place to heal people.

0/20/10/30/10 – A really unconventional final choice, that is more theoretical than actual, attempting to have a condition build that has the ability to use DS as reactively for damage absorbtion as possible with the new BM trait. I fear it won’t do enough damage to kill anything even with full condition gear, but should be bullet-proof.

I look at the bright side whenever i can instead of complaining for what i cant have.

My maxim likely is :God give me the patience to accept things i cannot change the strenght to change the things i can and the wisdom not to do or say something stupid to often.

Either way go with the flow and accept that wich you cannot change.

I’ll probably do something similiar to the the 30/30/0/0/10 build, pending the new GM curses trait. I was hoping to try and work in a stability for the condition class, but I don’t think the class will be hurting too much with burning not being crit dependent.

Ren, how does Dire work out for a condi class?

Rennoko.5731:

(I refuse to use the new nomenclature for traits… small numbers boring)

Not to detract from your build ideas, but I legitimately used the old standard for builds first, then sat there and debated with myself whether I would move on to the new one or not. I don’t like the small number version, but I figured I might as well get myself in the habit.

Anyway, can I ask you which games you are involved with that DO have the balance you’re looking for on your list, and what exactly about the game/balance appeals? I think in a bit of a roundabout way, it might relate to the negative feel people have regarding GW2 and help move the discussion forward. At least that’s my excuse for wanting to know.

Gryph.8237:

I’ll probably do something similiar to the the 30/30/0/0/10 build, pending the new GM curses trait. I was hoping to try and work in a stability for the condition class, but I don’t think the class will be hurting too much with burning not being crit dependent.

Ren, how does Dire work out for a condi class?

It is the gold standard if you want to fight out-numbered. Otherwise it is lower damage than rabid in general. Currently it gives too much offense with the defense in my opinion to ever be “balanced” in small scale, which is why it doesn’t exist in pvp.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Rennoko.5731:

(I refuse to use the new nomenclature for traits… small numbers boring)

Not to detract from your build ideas, but I legitimately used the old standard for builds first, then sat there and debated with myself whether I would move on to the new one or not. I don’t like the small number version, but I figured I might as well get myself in the habit.

Anyway, can I ask you which games you are involved with that DO have the balance you’re looking for on your list, and what exactly about the game/balance appeals? I think in a bit of a roundabout way, it might relate to the negative feel people have regarding GW2 and help move the discussion forward. At least that’s my excuse for wanting to know.

There aren’t any on the market games that meet my requirement, otherwise I would be playing them instead.

However, when there are clearly and well discussed skills that are over the top, and they are allowed to exist for months on end, even after being acknowledged as over the top by the dev team, that is just stupid.

Yes I mean healing signet and dumbfire and others. Just because I use the overpowered skill doesn’t mean I don’t want balance to take precedent over personal gain. There really didn’t need to be any additional discussion on skills that are clearly over the top, except to bring them in line.

Now I get what Anet is doing, they are accounting for “meta shift”, the idea that things are not really overpowered, but people just don’t know how to counter them yet. The big flaw in this is that these skills in particular have no counter.

To be clear, my personal preference is balance every 2 weeks. There are skills right now I can point to in every single class that are severely underpowered and under-represented in PvE and PvP and need to be buffed. You slow walk these skills up until they do or do not start to make it into the meta. If they do, and its a problem, you walk it back as soon as you can a few steps, and then walk something else ahead.

The problem with this is that you need a very in-tune dev team with the top end of PvP and PvE and WvW, such that they are watching and aware of these skill shifts and how they are impacting each of the game modes. That is a LOT for a team to take on when they also have new content to consider (such as new skills).

But that is the right way to balance. If skills are underused and too situational, they should be buffed/changed to be viable. If they are too good, they need to be brought in line. This cannot be done 2-3 times a year, as it is insufficient to prevent the game and common skills from going stale.

At any rate, the introduction of new skills gives me new things to play with, which is all I really want, a new thing to play with, as I am tired of all the old things that I know work well.

I feel you at the end. Sometimes I’ll get a bit bored with my Power set-up and swap it to Condi or something, but I always just end up thinking “I’d rather be fighting in Power” and switch back to the same old song and dance. In fact, I don’t see my “main” build changing at all, but I’d still like to play with the new toys.

However, when it comes to balance expectations, you note that no game on the market meets your requirements. I’m honestly trying to think if I’m in the same boat, but regardless, I wonder if that’s a symptom of a problem with gamers these days. Balance of course matters, but I think people who really want to excel take balance far too seriously, and it leads to burn-out/frustration/lack of enjoyment in a game they otherwise really enjoy playing.

As an example, I have drastically reduced my play-time out of a much lessened desire to play after repeatedly running into D/P Thieves in the past. I love fighting Warriors, Engis, Eles, Guardians, most Mesmers, Necros on occasion, and Rangers (the ones who try), but I am going to take a multi-week break because a build on one class gets under my skin? Is that… healthy?

I agree that a more frequent iterative process would be much more enjoyable, but how far is too far when it comes to dissecting balance? Is it a recipe for unhappiness?

Just some thoughts I was thinking in an attempt to avoid doing work before an upcoming vacation.

Certainly it is possible to take balance too far, but if you want to be an E-sport that is the work it takes. In reality, if you do 2 week interations, the number of changes should slack off over time, as more skills come into balance. It is a lot of work frontloaded for a better back end game.

I have a level 80 of every profession but I still love my necro the most because I enjoy playing it the most. However it is still the least useful class in PvE which is why I’m negative about it. It’s not just you OP.

I have always liked the build variety. I re-traited several times a week trying out all the skills and often combining wierd ones to see how they work together. Minions are always fun to watch die, though it took a while for me to learn to like them that way. Wells and marks are fun to drop on a mass of unfortunate oponents and DS is an interesting mechanic.

Kudos for posting this Gryph.

I think it’s normal to be frustrated at your favorite class. You see what some other classes can do, and you want some of those things, too. It happens to everyone. Thieves complain they have no survivability, Guardians think they need buffs and Warriors think they aren’t OP. It’s normal.

If you asked my brother, who I’ve played with since launch, he’d tell you that I have considered re-rolling probably about a dozen times. I have 4 other 80s that I hardly ever play because I just miss what my Necro can do. I miss that I can do solid AOE and move from roaming to a big group with hardly any change. I miss death shroud. I miss the ranged damage and debuffing. It just suits me, as it probably suits you.

I know I want to check out an apothecary and/or settler’s spec for small group, 5-10 man WvW. It sounds like with the proper runes, sigils (new ones) spec and organization, you could deal useful damage and have massive support. I’m interested to see how that works out.

Im negative about necro because there is so much wasted potential. And it would be so easy to bring the class up to the same level of other classes with only tweaks. The class could of been so good but they butchered it. In gw1 necro was a really strong class, im not sure how they managed to completely kill one of the most popular classes for gw2.

Anyway, I dont really play necro much anymore. I have all classes at 80 except for ranger so I have plenty of choice and id much rather play something fun and useful. I still love the necro aesthetic but I cant enjoy the necro in its current state so it just sits there unused while i wait for anet to do something. Yet every patch is a disappointment and wasted oppotunity. Especially the upcoming feature patch, 5 new grandmaster traits and not a single one improves necro pve viability…

If i was happy with the class I probably wouldnt post and give feedback. This is probably how it is for most people. I dont have much to give on ele, warrior or guardian because they are all in almost perfect positions for pve. So you have to expect most feedback and discussions about anything in the forums is going to have a negative tone.

What kept me playing Necro even when it was vastly under-powered and easily killed:

Death Shroud is an interesting mechanic – Essentially a transform. No other profession has that.

Minions – more of them than any other profession and kind of a hybrid of Ranger’s mobile pet and Engi’s many turrets. They were mostly a liability and curiosity until the improvements started rolling out.

Conditions can make a huge difference in single and team battles for PvE, WvW, and PvP – so much so that Necro condi pressure was severely crippled, bosses were given a lot more immunity, and other professions gained more of their own condi and cleansing skills. This is the old red mage class more than any other in GW2.

AoE is not too good against single targets because its damage is designed for multiple targets but wiping trash mobs before they can rip through team members focusing a boss cannot be over stated in importance. All other professions have AoE skills, that includes cleave, but Necro has a large aesrnal that is only exceeded by Ele and Engi.

Spectral skills could be so much more than it is but few other Necro mechanics are quite so interesting. Spectral skills come up well short of being a transform but do contain elements of similarity. I had so much hope for spectral skills but their concepts are so powerful that developing them further could cause a game-play imbalance. I still would like to see more work there, though.