Guild Wars 2

So I recently came back to the game after several months away and decided to gear the necro I neglected a year ago. So I tricked it out in full berserker gear and hopped into fractals… I was using a dagger/DS build.

And then I had to ask myself why I should even bother. It was completely outclassed by my warrior, guard, and mesmer. The damage was awful, the survivability was terrible outside of DS, the AoEs are all on very long cooldowns, there’s not much mobility, few buffs, poor range etc….

Maybe this is a L2P issue, but why bother with one?

The damage is not awful. It’s not top tier but it’s far from awful.

We do need offensive support buffs for Pve though.

Dagger dps is really good…

Why bother? Don’t, not worth it.

You can reach the third highest single target damage, IIRC (although I have heard some people question that), but you bring very low support, and the little you do bring others will do better.

Unless you are doing high tier PvE – high level fractals – you should be fine. The dps is not bad at all and as people say here its right after thief. You should bother to play with Necromancer if you bother to have fun with playing the class you like.

There is no reason other than for fun or you have no choice. The damage is fine but they bring nothing special. That said I would probably take a necro instead of a second mesmer or guardian. Some classes just shouldnt be stacked no matter what. :P

I have been playing a DS build as well lately. Damage is not bad being able to self stack Might. Stacking Vulnerability is also relatively easy too.

Yes, AoE is a bit of a problem. I wish Anet can combine some of the DS traits or makes reduce recharge for Wells at a lower tier.

More casual runs for CoF path 1 is a decent time. Flesh wurm for bypassing boulders with ease and very simple perma-poison for the boss. Does pretty well for the entire second half of the path, really.

But Necros have no place at all in speed runs.

Stubbornness.

Plus my other two 80s are a Ranger and an Engineer (and I don’t want to wear out my #1 button on my mouse).

Bhawb.7408:

Why bother? Don’t, not worth it.

You can reach the third highest single target damage, IIRC (although I have heard some people question that), but you bring very low support, and the little you do bring others will do better.

I have no idea where you heard a silly number like 3rd highest, it’s more like 2nd worst. I suppose there could be some room for debate whether they’re worse than rangers but either way it’s either worst or second worst.

There are some abilities you have that others simply cannot get such as the super useful well of darkness constant blindness to enemies within its range which makes it useful against hordes in 1 place or bosses,the axe can put extreme vuln. on a target opening the damage capabilities of you and other classes,your one of the only classes to have fear so you can use that to your advantage and you have a second health bar allowing you to draw enemies to you with aggravation and not only doing damage but luring them into good fighting areas…ect,ect

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I have no idea where you heard a silly number like 3rd highest, it’s more like 2nd worst. I suppose there could be some room for debate whether they’re worse than rangers but either way it’s either worst or second worst.

I’ve heard it from multiple sources.

Remorhas.2963:

There are some abilities you have that others simply cannot get such as the super useful well of darkness constant blindness to enemies within its range which makes it useful against hordes in 1 place or bosses

Thief brings off-hand pistol for spammable blind field. Well of Darkness is clunky and lousy by comparison.

Bhawb.7408:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I have no idea where you heard a silly number like 3rd highest, it’s more like 2nd worst. I suppose there could be some room for debate whether they’re worse than rangers but either way it’s either worst or second worst.

I’ve heard it from multiple sources.

Guangmath.

Necro is middle. But necro also has one of the highest amounts of burst within a 10 second time period. As far as i can tell the only thing that beats it is conjure burst. Or if you count less overall damage but a smaller time frame then other classes beat necro by a bit..

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Bhawb.7408:

Why bother? Don’t, not worth it.

You can reach the third highest single target damage, IIRC (although I have heard some people question that), but you bring very low support, and the little you do bring others will do better.

I have no idea where you heard a silly number like 3rd highest, it’s more like 2nd worst. I suppose there could be some room for debate whether they’re worse than rangers but either way it’s either worst or second worst.

I would have to completely disagree with you.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Bhawb.7408:

Why bother? Don’t, not worth it.

You can reach the third highest single target damage, IIRC (although I have heard some people question that), but you bring very low support, and the little you do bring others will do better.

I have no idea where you heard a silly number like 3rd highest, it’s more like 2nd worst. I suppose there could be some room for debate whether they’re worse than rangers but either way it’s either worst or second worst.

How’s about this … instead of arguing about it, support your claims with whatever data you have. I would love to see why there is such a big difference between opinions here. Just an idea.

Why bring a necromancer to a dungeon?

Because some people chose to play this game on their leisurely time and if they extract the most enjoyment playing the necromancer (and their party is ok with it), they do it.

Necros are not that bad but sure there are better classes. I don’t doubt the comment about them delivering one of the best single target damage.

spoj.9672:

Bhawb.7408:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I have no idea where you heard a silly number like 3rd highest, it’s more like 2nd worst. I suppose there could be some room for debate whether they’re worse than rangers but either way it’s either worst or second worst.

I’ve heard it from multiple sources.

Guangmath.

Necro is middle. But necro also has one of the highest amounts of burst within a 10 second time period. As far as i can tell the only thing that beats it is conjure burst. Or if you count less overall damage but a smaller time frame then other classes beat necro by a bit..

Give me a necro build (including utils) to model and I’ll pop it into the spreadsheet and that’ll decide it. I suppose there is a small chance they might be able to beat guardians if specced right which would put them in 3rd which I guess could be considered middle-tier DPS, we’ll see.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12821718-necro-dps-trials-halp-dek

worth reading.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Give me a necro build (including utils) to model and I’ll pop it into the spreadsheet and that’ll decide it. I suppose there is a small chance they might be able to beat guardians if specced right which would put them in 3rd which I guess could be considered middle-tier DPS, we’ll see.

Ive given you builds and stuff before to calculate and you always did a kitten job. You even thought wells were channeled at one point. Forgive me if I dont think its worth the effort trying to get you to do any calculations when you dont have any clue how the class plays.

nearlight.3064:

The damage is not awful. It’s not top tier but it’s far from awful.

We do need offensive support buffs for Pve though.

our problem is we need more power ranged/cleave.

Lightsbane.9012:

nearlight.3064:

The damage is not awful. It’s not top tier but it’s far from awful.

We do need offensive support buffs for Pve though.

our problem is we need more power ranged/cleave.

We dont need more ranged power damage.

spoj.9672:

Lightsbane.9012:

nearlight.3064:

The damage is not awful. It’s not top tier but it’s far from awful.

We do need offensive support buffs for Pve though.

our problem is we need more power ranged/cleave.

We dont need more ranged power damage.

Yup I understand the need for cleave just so we can clear trash faster without relying on wells and clutch piercing in the pug friendly DS build..

but in my opinion the lack of team support is a more serious obstacle to overcome. If we had some sort of way to buff the party’s DPS post might, we’d be much better. My idea was to some trait that would boost party damage for applying conditions to enemies (like a group wide version of target the weak or maybe +10% damage for the necro and nearby allies if weakness or cripple is up or something like that). And something like that wouldn’t make the hambow warriors cry about us in pvp, so it’d be balanced.

spoj.9672:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Give me a necro build (including utils) to model and I’ll pop it into the spreadsheet and that’ll decide it. I suppose there is a small chance they might be able to beat guardians if specced right which would put them in 3rd which I guess could be considered middle-tier DPS, we’ll see.

Ive given you builds and stuff before to calculate and you always did a kitten job. You even thought wells were channeled at one point. Forgive me if I dont think its worth the effort trying to get you to do any calculations when you dont have any clue how the class plays.

When did I ever say wells were channeled? I’ve calculated necros in the past and they always came up kitten, if you have a better build then let’s see it. Otherwise they stay kitten just like before barring a new patch that buffs them significantly.

Also I just looked at the DnT thread and it looks about right. A good 20-30% lower than warrior outside of Lich Form, throw in minions if possible (Golem elite does a fair bit) and it goes up about 1.5k and the numbers become comparable. Now to be fair Necromancers scale poorly and thus do better comparably with less stats (primarily because Golem doesn’t scale and conditions scale poorly) but in the general course the warrior will almost always do better than the necromancer just due to having better self-buffing.

I don’t think there’s really any disagreement that warrior is pretty much dead solid middle of the road DPS or that necro is worse than warrior so the only real point of contention left is whether necro is worse than guardian but at that point it’s just splitting hairs. Since DEKeys’ numbers match mine for warrior, I think it’s safe to say that her necro figures are probably reasonably comparable to my numbers for guardian which are also in the 10k range.

So that basically gets us to:

Top tier (15k+): Elementalist
High tier (13-15k): Engineer, Thief
Mid tier (11-13k): Warrior
Low tier (<11k): Necromancer, Guardian, Ranger
Situationally anywhere tier: Mesmer

And I think that’s a pretty fair way to break it down. I don’t think it really changes the ultimate conclusion I originally stated which was “necro is 2nd worst, maybe third” which is perfectly supported by data.

Okay here’s something you can actually try and by any means enjoy if you want to or don’t it’s all up to you.

Here’s a link for the build w/ PvE content in mind.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBIhduxIHNt02Yj1tJyFEoDYVsVKRXWA-TBSBwAUOpC02fwsSwrKPup+DWlYo0/A4JFQKgxWGB-e

P.S. If you can’t afford runes of strength then buy runes of the scholar.

The build also for it’s Master Trait depends on what your using, VIII/IX or X
Chill of Death is great for bosses and boons enemies/bosses in dungeons/fractals or World Bosses may posses, Training of the Master only if you choose Flesh Golem for certain specifics, and Axe Mastery ONLY if your semi ranging on fights.
Elite will depend on the area and if your master trait is Training of the Master or not.
You can opt to not use axe and go melee deep with dagger Dag 2 can get up to with all 9 hits around 9k, will make you stack might OUT of DS and stacks vuln like a champ. Ghastly Claws on Axe can go way up in dmg if used properly. Especially with some semi ranged content. 600 range on axe skills is very short but still give moderate range plus Axe #2 paths and allows for movement unlike War GS #2. So! stating necro gives nothing please don’t say again.

Play the class and learn how useful it is before listening to others comments and pegging it as a bad class.

That wont be the best build.

Ill humour you just this once. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBIhhu1IDN102SjjNs3mAXQgeQgWR/5UKq2C-ThRBABXt/o8DP9DoohBgnAAlq/YmSQA-e

Im sure you can work out the best combo of assassins/berserker gear and food yourself. I placed Well of Corruption because it adds good initial burst. A minion might be slightly better dps over time but they are unreliable so i rarely use them. If might is an issue I would take Blood is Power instead but I assume were talking about max buffs here so thats pointless.

Heres the important part. The rotation excluding wells (they should be used on cooldown or saved for aoe bursting).

Locust Swarm > Weapon Swap > Reapers Touch > Deathshroud > Tainted Shackles > Dagger auto > Flash Deathshroud > Reapers Touch > Weapon swap > Locust Swarm > Dagger auto > Flash Deathshroud > Dagger auto > Weapon swap > Reapers Touch > Deathshroud > Tainted shackles etc (Deathshroud flashes may not be ordered exactly correctly, just use roughly every 10/11 seconds).

Basically dagger auto as filler. Rotation is use warhorn 5 then camp focus for 2 reaper’s touches before going back to warhorn. All while flashing deathshroud every 10 seconds for weakening shroud proc. And every 3rd/4th flash you should cast tainted shackles. Most of the time you wont flash DS perfectly every 10 seconds so you will often be able to cast tainted shackles on the 3rd flash.

Also things to note. Tainted shackles is not a channel. After you cast it you can immediately leave DS and continue rotation and it will add torment and strike for good damage a few seconds later. Reapers touch will bounce between caster and target four times resulting in 3 procs of damage and applying 12 stacks of vuln. Its a very strong burst skill considering it has a 14 second cool down and only takes a second to cast. Locust Swarm will tick for 13 procs of damage instead of 15 even with trait.

The build also applies a lot of passive bleeds in addition to the torment from tainted shackles and target the weak will benefit from the extra immob, weakness and chill which are uncommon conditions in most groups. Remember conditions are applied before damage so this means tainted shackless will always benefit from an extra +4% from immob and torment when it finishes.

spoj.9672:

That wont be the best build.

Ill humour you just this once. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBIhhu1IDN102SjjNs3mAXQgeQgWR/5UKq2C-ThRBABXt/o8DP9DoohBgnAAlq/YmSQA-e

Your build doesn’t include condition cleansing, so how is that better? Yeah a pet who heals you who can also die from an AoE if World Boss actually get’s to kill it, no heal from it and your out of it. Signet of spite may give 180 power staple which is slightly a dmg boost and if you forgot Target the Weak 2% dmg bonus for EACH condition on the target. your dmg adds up each time. in Dungeon’s it may go down but your dmg output is still going to be high with might stacking. Condition Cleansing even in dungeons is more useful to get you ooc as well. A 25s cd compared to an unreliable AI minion that sits at ranged and can eff the party up is not useful. I’m not trying to forcefully make it so i’m bashing your idea it’s okay because it’s good, but you have to think. Conditions can kill you as easily as melee dmg can. Blood Fiend has no condi cleanse, provides healing of 900 that literally is nothing compare to what you can get from Dag #2 with might stacks at 25.

I have been away from the game for awhile but will soon be jumping back in. I always like a challenge when building a character so a necro for group PVE is really appealing to me. here is my attempt to bring some group support while not compromising too much on damage. axe warhorn for DS and dagger focus for out of DS. Can heal pretty consistently and still have decent damage. my main concern is the long cooldowns, the necro trait tree is a nightmare, I wish I could have either spectral or well skills on shorter cooldowns but I dont think I could without sacrificing dmg output.
Thoughts?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRIQRBHhhu1IJ9Rr6uu3T32stHb83/9E1C1URB01ZAMDUPHtRBD-TxABwAAOJAa3fIwTAAA-e

Yesturday i did Ascalonian catacombs path 3 with my guardian (who’s not op) a level 69 necro, 2 mesmers (one low level) and a ranger.

Everything went perfectly fine, necro pulled his weight, as did the mesmers and the ranger. So let’s not get depressed over necros in dungeons. Alo keep in mind that in dungeons you often run into guardians, and that means necro’s achilles’ heel that is lack of normally accessible stability gets treated fast:)

TheSoothsayer.7439:

I have been away from the game for awhile but will soon be jumping back in. I always like a challenge when building a character so a necro for group PVE is really appealing to me. here is my attempt to bring some group support while not compromising too much on damage. axe warhorn for DS and dagger focus for out of DS. Can heal pretty consistently and still have decent damage. my main concern is the long cooldowns, the necro trait tree is a nightmare, I wish I could have either spectral or well skills on shorter cooldowns but I dont think I could without sacrificing dmg output.
Thoughts?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRIQRBHhhu1IJ9Rr6uu3T32stHb83/9E1C1URB01ZAMDUPHtRBD-TxABwAAOJAa3fIwTAAA-e

Utilities aren’t useful and Renewing Blast is bugged.
Zerker stats reign supreme in this meta build.
All classes run it. Superior Runes of Might, with whatever can give might and what not.
TBH my build is from DnT itself i tweaked it by my standards, which is what everyone can do. Sacrificing tons of dps to be more viable isn’t useful.
If the bosses in Fractals, Dungeons or in the world isn’t going down fast enough, there isn’t much dps going out. Especially in dungeons/fractals getting a boss down quickly is worth while, Fractals take about 2-3 hours depending on what you get.

Necro builds are hard to work or come by and by any means you won’t find anyother way to play a Zerker necro. I apologize to be bashing peoples builds but finding newer ways to dps ain’t hard but to do it quickly is more worthwhile. A necro being able to crit 50%-66% of the time is more useful than one that runs condi spec or DS spec. Sorry to bash DS burst down but Life Blast has a long cast time as it is. compare to the one underwater it’s slower. the up time of dps you dish out isn’t comparable to bursting something down quick. Plus to Vuln stack inconsistently with Life Blast isn’t going to be quite useful. Necro’s Life Blast does more dmg the from 0-600 yards from target 600+ it does immensely less. Dagger keeps high dmg Necrotic Bite can hit immense numbers in a crit probably with 25 stacks of might and vulns more than a life blast can. To simply try to make necro work as a healer, tankier, or just straight up condi is calling yourself the biggest liability ever. I love condition spec necro’s because that’s the niche ANet intended for Necro, but the spec doesn’t work while the conditions are the way they are.

So in turn, who cares what necro can bring to a fight!? they vuln stack for groups, they give weakness more easily from different traits or utilities, they allow for some alleviation from certain members by kiting a dungeon boss while the other person gets the downed up for a fight.

SMH to a class that achieve more possibilities that are endless to save a dungeon by screwing it for them all saying they are not important and are worthless as ANet “Intended” for them. Who cares about dps numbers.
Can a Warrior stack 12-24 stacks of vuln in minutes?
Can a Mesmer/Staff Ele face tank a boss while the other tankier class rezzes the downed?
Can an Engie pull out DPS numbers with AA/Elite/Utilities without messing up your team I.E. lvl 38 Fractal.
Can a Guardian stack might with crits like a necro can?
Can a thief survive a boss fight in the front lines like a necro can?
Necro covers mostly some or all aspects that other classes cannot.

After asking all these tell me this, can all the non necro’s actually achieve all of this in minutes into a boss fight and survive without 1 mistake costing it for everyone?
If the answer is no, then don’t post a class is useless just because.

I apologize for this rant but some people don’t quite understand the necro class unless they play it how it can be played. To the fullest extent.

To the Veteran Necromancers who are out there @Bhawb and a few others that names don’t come to me at this hour. You guys are wonderful for your builds, trait ideas, and tweaks which help to improve the Necromancer, You guys are the best and keep up the wonderful work!

Souldestructor.9576:

Your build doesn’t include condition cleansing, so how is that better? Yeah a pet who heals you who can also die from an AoE if World Boss actually get’s to kill it, no heal from it and your out of it. Signet of spite may give 180 power staple which is slightly a dmg boost and if you forgot Target the Weak 2% dmg bonus for EACH condition on the target. your dmg adds up each time. in Dungeon’s it may go down but your dmg output is still going to be high with might stacking. Condition Cleansing even in dungeons is more useful to get you ooc as well. A 25s cd compared to an unreliable AI minion that sits at ranged and can eff the party up is not useful. I’m not trying to forcefully make it so i’m bashing your idea it’s okay because it’s good, but you have to think. Conditions can kill you as easily as melee dmg can. Blood Fiend has no condi cleanse, provides healing of 900 that literally is nothing compare to what you can get from Dag #2 with might stacks at 25.

You dont understand. Guang was asking for theoretical max dps. The build i listed is just the dagger build with tweaked utility’s to absolutely maximise dps and ignore any utility. Of course when you need cleanses you take consume or well of power. Or when your group lacks might you take Blood is Power. And you should not need much condi cleanse in PvE.

The reason you dont use the signet of spite active is because the only conditions you dont apply yourself with that build are poison and blind. Blind gets stripped immediately and both of those conditions can be applied by teammates. So you basically sacrifice 180 power for a 0 – 2% damage boost.

spoj.9672:

That wont be the best build.

Ill humour you just this once. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBIhhu1IDN102SjjNs3mAXQgeQgWR/5UKq2C-ThRBABXt/o8DP9DoohBgnAAlq/YmSQA-e

Im sure you can work out the best combo of assassins/berserker gear and food yourself. I placed Well of Corruption because it adds good initial burst. A minion might be slightly better dps over time but they are unreliable so i rarely use them. If might is an issue I would take Blood is Power instead but I assume were talking about max buffs here so thats pointless.

Heres the important part. The rotation excluding wells (they should be used on cooldown or saved for aoe bursting).

Locust Swarm > Weapon Swap > Reapers Touch > Deathshroud > Tainted Shackles > Dagger auto > Flash Deathshroud > Reapers Touch > Weapon swap > Locust Swarm > Dagger auto > Flash Deathshroud > Dagger auto > Weapon swap > Reapers Touch > Deathshroud > Tainted shackles etc (Deathshroud flashes may not be ordered exactly correctly, just use roughly every 10/11 seconds).

Basically dagger auto as filler. Rotation is use warhorn 5 then camp focus for 2 reaper’s touches before going back to warhorn. All while flashing deathshroud every 10 seconds for weakening shroud proc. And every 3rd/4th flash you should cast tainted shackles. Most of the time you wont flash DS perfectly every 10 seconds so you will often be able to cast tainted shackles on the 3rd flash.

Also things to note. Tainted shackles is not a channel. After you cast it you can immediately leave DS and continue rotation and it will add torment and strike for good damage a few seconds later. Reapers touch will bounce between caster and target four times resulting in 3 procs of damage and applying 12 stacks of vuln. Its a very strong burst skill considering it has a 14 second cool down and only takes a second to cast. Locust Swarm will tick for 13 procs of damage instead of 15 even with trait.

The build also applies a lot of passive bleeds in addition to the torment from tainted shackles and target the weak will benefit from the extra immob, weakness and chill which are uncommon conditions in most groups. Remember conditions are applied before damage so this means tainted shackless will always benefit from an extra +4% from immob and torment when it finishes.

That build gives me an overall DPS of 10542 direct + 416 bleed with all buffs which seems mostly in line with the DnT numbers. By compairson Warrior gets 10489 direct + 167 bleed with a 6/6/0/2/0 Axe build, 11949 + 209 with signets instead of banners, and ele gets 14614 with 6/2/2/2/2 staff. 4/6/0/4/0 Guardian is 10970.

Incidentally you can squeeze out an extra 100 or so sustained DPS if you use Shadow Fiend instead of Well of Corruption but you lose burst and it’s a tiny difference anyway so who cares. It does scale slightly better with fewer buffs though.

Either way I don’t think that tells us anything we don’t already know, which is that necromancers aren’t straight-up terrible at DPS but it’s not really that great either.

So you put on a 3 sec weakness with DS flash as well as a bleed that from crits you can apply easily and signet of spite puts on a slightly longer weakness. People think the more Overall dps is better. TBH who cares. I simply don’t care about numbers. I play Necromancer the way it should be and the build that suites me. I’ve pulled out in exotics and only 5/6 ascended rings/neck/back/ 1 accessory more dps with crits/ferocity in place of raw utilities bringing you the dmg boost to 10542+416 with bleeds.

I understand what your getting at but i find it hard to believe thats the potential for necros. If my Ghastly Claws TRAITED with Axe Mastery can hit over 12k with crit/ferocity mixed in. how is the above still listed as the only DPS a necro can pull?

So it is higher than warrior. Because noone runs a no banner warrior. And anyone that runs a warrior without empower allies in a casual/organised run uses 6/6/0/0/2 or 6/5/0/0/3 with GS. Not 6/6/0/2/0 axe.

Souldestructor.9576:

So you put on a 3 sec weakness with DS flash as well as a bleed that from crits you can apply easily and signet of spite puts on a slightly longer weakness. People think the more Overall dps is better. TBH who cares. I simply don’t care about numbers. I play Necromancer the way it should be and the build that suites me. I’ve pulled out in exotics and only 5/6 ascended rings/neck/back/ 1 accessory more dps with crits/ferocity in place of raw utilities bringing you the dmg boost to 10542+416 with bleeds.

I understand what your getting at but i find it hard to believe thats the potential for necros. If my Ghastly Claws TRAITED with Axe Mastery can hit over 12k with crit/ferocity mixed in. how is the above still listed as the only DPS a necro can pull?

My posts were just referring to the dps rankings. Viability of those situations where you can sacrifice all utility is irrelevant in this discussion. It was purely in response to Guangs dps claims so there is no need for you to argue with it especially as you do not care about efficiency.

Also if axe 2 hits for 24k that is only 8k dps. Axe 2 is not good damage. Your 12k axe 2 is 4k dps which is less than half the theoretical maximum with dagger rotation. And thats terrible considering axe 2 is the “burst”(read with sarcasm) of using an axe build.

spoj.9672:

Also if axe 2 hits for 24k that is only 8k dps. Axe 2 is not good damage. Your 12k axe 2 is 4k dps which is less than half the theoretical maximum with dagger rotation. And thats terrible considering axe 2 is the “burst”(read with sarcasm) of using an axe build.

I use Axe on encounters that require some alleviation room for me to prepare to get health back up and to range so i don’t lose dps over time. I run mostly Dag/WH + Focus, If your not factoring in any food and nourishment added to enhance abilities, yeah other classes that are top tier overrule necro’s, but this games all about flavor of the month in any game that happens. WoW is one that always does this. Namely Frost Mages in that so called mmo never had much of a nerf. Compared GW2 does the same thing. People who don’t read on forums or on a profession, what is it they want to do and research but instead just choose w/e they get hit with a “Oh you chose that as your main, well later on once you reach 80 or right now you’ll want to maybe re-roll warrior it’s OP in PvE.” Which is basically Re-Roll from necro to Ele/War/ or w/e the new flavor comes to. Also signet warriors use Healing Sig/Sig of Fury/ and Sig of Rage. 3 sigs, with a banner and a utility for shouts or stance. Fire Field applicator Forceful GS for single Might Stacking, Phalanx Strength for party might stacking. 1 necro Well of Suffering that is up for 6 seconds that has a 35s cd you have 29s to put out other fiends without getting messed up by the field, and applying a newer field over it should allow you to blast finisher or projectile/whirl/leap for better use.

spoj.9672:

So it is higher than warrior. Because noone runs a no banner warrior. And anyone that runs a warrior without empower allies in a casual/organised run uses 6/6/0/0/2 or 6/5/0/0/3 with GS. Not 6/6/0/2/0 axe.

That’s comparing apples to oranges. You took the max damage, no utility necro and compared it to the lowest damage most utility warrior.

The max damage warrior beats the max damage necro by a fair margin. Swapping out for a build that is more utility focused on both classes yields the same results.

I think taking max damage necro build and taking a somewhat utility based build for warrior and comparing them is fair. The best utility a necro can bring for PvE can be done by the max damage build already because as spoj would say, what we bring on the table unfortunately is outclassed by other professions. A warrior on the other hand can bring good and unique offensive utility such as Phalanx Strength, Empower Allies and banners. Therefore the builds compared here between warrior and necro are not selected because they are max damage, but because they are the builds that combine the best damage and utility each profession has to offer. Again, for Necros it is the max dps build, but for Warriors you actually have choices to decrease a bit of your own damage to improve the whole group’s damage, which can be more favorable for PvE.

What pregantman said.

And even in the case of warrior. The selfish dps build is 6/6/0/0/2 gs. You wouldnt run 6/6/0/2/0 because that means you lack perma selfish fury and swiftness. Even if you did you would always be using atleast one banner which means you wont have all signets so you wont get that number. The warriors theoretical maximum dps build has no place in a regular or organised run. Unless you are stacking more than 2 warriors. But the necros max build does have a place as theres pretty much nothing else.

Anyway this is all irrelevant. The original claim was that necro was second worst or worst in terms of dps. It quite clearly isnt. And even if it was, it wouldnt be fair to say it like that. Especially when its pretty much equal to warrior and guardian and quite far above ranger.

Although its fair to say overall necro is clearly the worst class for dungeons and pve.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Top tier (15k+): Elementalist
High tier (13-15k): Engineer, Thief
Mid tier (11-13k): Warrior
Low tier (<11k): Necromancer, Guardian, Ranger
Situationally anywhere tier: Mesmer

And I think that’s a pretty fair way to break it down. I don’t think it really changes the ultimate conclusion I originally stated which was “necro is 2nd worst, maybe third” which is perfectly supported by data.

What data? Where did you get this info?

Also, what about claims Guardian DPS is higher than Warrior?

Kain Francois.4328:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Top tier (15k+): Elementalist
High tier (13-15k): Engineer, Thief
Mid tier (11-13k): Warrior
Low tier (<11k): Necromancer, Guardian, Ranger
Situationally anywhere tier: Mesmer

And I think that’s a pretty fair way to break it down. I don’t think it really changes the ultimate conclusion I originally stated which was “necro is 2nd worst, maybe third” which is perfectly supported by data.

What data? Where did you get this info?

Also, what about claims Guardian DPS is higher than Warrior?

Scroll up a bit.

Also spoj those numbers still put Guardian slightly higher than necro because the necro numbers still have about 800 DPS in minion damage and conversely I didn’t count the DPS from Sword of Justice.

Without minions necro drops to 9693 direct + 416 bleed, with spirit sword and hammer guardian goes up to 11149 direct, not including burn. So either way the guardian still slightly edges out the necro in my spreadsheet, although due to imprecisions in any thereotical calculations that slight difference isn’t really worth anything. So either way necros are still 2nd or 3rd worst which takes us back to exactly where we started.

Also lol @ comparing “utility” necro to utility warrior, you can’t compare the utility on a warrior to something that doesn’t exist.

This is the problem with dps rankings. Many of the rankings are based on builds that noone runs because they are stupid or unviable in any type of run. And we will never agree on assumptions made for each build. Necro is the only class where its pretty accurate because there is no other way to play other than pure dps. :P

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Remorhas.2963:

There are some abilities you have that others simply cannot get such as the super useful well of darkness constant blindness to enemies within its range which makes it useful against hordes in 1 place or bosses

Thief brings off-hand pistol for spammable blind field. Well of Darkness is clunky and lousy by comparison.

Yes but the field doesnt last 1, as long and ,2 has as much radius,also with a trait the necro can also give everyone protection when in that well.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Also lol @ comparing “utility” necro to utility warrior, you can’t compare the utility on a warrior to something that doesn’t exist.

What is being compared is the best PvE build each profession has to offer. On theory, the best build should be an optimal combination of utility and damage, but as you said yourself building on necro “utility” can be counterproductive as by comparison to other professions, it doesn’t exist. Therefore, the Necro’s best option is to go max dps as there isn’t much worthwhile support to combine his dps with. Warrior on the other hand can adjust his build for worthwhile support and create a more efffective (PvE wise) build than his max dps build.

Remorhas.2963:

Yes but the field doesnt last 1, as long and ,2 has as much radius,also with a trait the necro can also give everyone protection when in that well.

It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t last long, Thief can spam it almost forever (I’m not sure if they can actually perma field), compared to just 6 seconds on a CD. And you can’t afford that trait if you want to not start gimping your own DPS.

Sadly breaks my heart everytime I see threads like this. I have invested quite alot of time with my necro and have enjoyed using him for WvW, but when it comes to PVE content seems like there is not even a point in trying.

You can try and go with it. Just because Necro is undesirable in speed clear groups or maybe max level fractals doesn’t mean you should sit out on PvE with your favorite class. Avoid jerks and you are good to go.

Why bring a necro? Because this game is a casual play at your leisure game. There is no reason not to unless you want to clear it fastEr or you want to do a speed run. Even then a necro is not bad. If this game really required teamwork and not just damage spam then you could worry about what classes you bring. The only diff in what classes you bring is the speed of the kill, and necros are not that bad. Outside of kill time, this game requires no thought in class combos, and what people are worried abOut is how to do these boring dungeons as fast as possible

I run fractals on my necro, i’m currently at a personal reward lvl 30, i started with Necro ended up going guardian, then decided to switch back to necro, Why? because i not only wanted to prove them wrong but show that Necro is not a useless class. If you use my build and put on full zerk with the build you’ll notice it is quite different that what you would expect. A guild mate of mine complimented on how I play my zerker necro. It’s not because of the build, it is based on the players skill.

Side note. One reason why a necro can be used in a dungeon or bring one?
DS life force pool. Face tank some specific dmg like elemental grawl shaman when he shoots the arrow, DS to escape AR and survive long enough to kite a boss while others need to be brought up. Fast LF generation when needed. Attrition for necro means for the whole group too. bosses with projectiles can be taken by a necro who is viable enough to act offensively and defensively. You can probably rez someone in DS if you tried properly.

Tested for DS Rez and it in fact is true! so necro is useful for something Double Health Pool Rez!

Gryph.8237:

Why bring a necro? Because this game is a casual play at your leisure game. There is no reason not to unless you want to clear it fastEr or you want to do a speed run. Even then a necro is not bad. If this game really required teamwork and not just damage spam then you could worry about what classes you bring. The only diff in what classes you bring is the speed of the kill, and necros are not that bad. Outside of kill time, this game requires no thought in class combos, and what people are worried abOut is how to do these boring dungeons as fast as possible

That’s kind of the whole point of this thread, dungeon runners like to kill things fast.

Souldestructor.9576:

and Renewing Blast is bugged.

No it isn’t. Renewing Blast works perfectly. The problem is getting people to line up to get the healing and life blast’s trajectory on larger enemies making the trait useless while fighting many bosses.

Even so, still not very useful in PvE where you really shouldn’t be needing the healing anyway outside of Aetherpath TA.