Guild Wars 2

What does he bring to the table?

Self survavibility.
There was few only-necro teams that did fractal really good, but in truth there’s nothing that a necromancer bring for the team that any other class can’t do seriously better unless his survavibility, that can’t be shared with allies.

You can make a condition build and spam bleed with using the actual deathly chill trait that got empowered and now apply 3 bleed instead of 1. But there’s still a lot of classes that inflict better damage.

Most of the time the necromancer is taken to kill adds. (on bosses that have adds of course.)

Condition management. If the enemies use a lot of conditions on you, necros have unparalleled ability to pull those conditions from your allies and send them back to the enemies.

We can do a few other things, but Silv is right, most of those things can be done better by other classes.

Necro benchmarks at 33k now without epidemic cheese, so it’s at least somewhat competitive with the other DPS classes by itself… If it’s a fight with easy epidemic cleaving (VG, Sab, Sloth, Trio, MO, Deimos) or if you have an ele dropping icebow, reapers can easily get top dps numbers.

Granted there’s not a lot of fights where you specifically want a necro for their utility and taking Blood is a dps loss, but there are some utility uses necros excel at without sacrificing their dps uptime: plague signet in Matt and Sloth… Golem charge is great for doing sabs on Trio w/o baiting Zane teleports… Epidemic makes MO so, so easy for pugs.

But, I mean, really there’s not a real big reason to NOT take a necro as a pure dps role either anymore. (Their benchmark—although harder to hit— is only 100 dps less than condi rangers.) I’d say the biggest reason necros still have a bad reputation in the raid community is that most necro players are just really bad and/or a lot of commanders are still building their pugs with a-few-patches-ago mentality.

That’s all speaking to raids specifically… As for fractals, there’s no enrage timer, so really, it doesn’t matter what you bring as long as they don’t die (which necro’s excel at.)

narcx.3570:

Necro benchmarks at 33k now without epidemic cheese, so it’s at least somewhat competitive with the other DPS classes by itself… If it’s a fight with easy epidemic cleaving (VG, Sab, Sloth, Trio, MO, Deimos) or if you have an ele dropping icebow, reapers can easily get top dps numbers.

Granted there’s not a lot of fights where you specifically want a necro for their utility and taking Blood is a dps loss, but there are some utility uses necros excel at without sacrificing their dps uptime: plague signet in Matt and Sloth… Golem charge is great for doing sabs on Trio w/o baiting Zane teleports… Epidemic makes MO so, so easy for pugs.

But, I mean, really there’s not a real big reason to NOT take a necro as a pure dps role either anymore. (Their benchmark—although harder to hit— is only 100 dps less than condi rangers.) I’d say the biggest reason necros still have a bad reputation in the raid community is that most necro players are just really bad and/or a lot of commanders are still building their pugs with a-few-patches-ago mentality.

That’s all speaking to raids specifically… As for fractals, there’s no enrage timer, so really, it doesn’t matter what you bring as long as they don’t die (which necro’s excel at.)

I agree with most. But to say that almost all necros are bad and thats why they are not welcome is just wrong. Thats just not true. As I said this 2-3 times already, the real reason is people who are clueless and/or don’t/can’t read.

comforting – how hard is it to get that benchmark?

To be honest, most people can’t reach the benchmark. Which isn’t something to be ashamed about, given that benchmarks are made against a static golem that can’t attack back. Getting it whilst dodging all the nasty attacks and complying with all the raid mechanics is a wee bit harder.

They’re fun.

If you need to exclude certain professions because they deal less damage or provide less than others do then how skilled at the game are you actually?

simply put, you don’t.
Every other class can do whatever necromancers do and do it better.

Unless you’re concerned about the most efficient and fast way to clear content then there’s absolutely nothing wrong with bringing a Necromancer along. The biggest meme in the game is that certain builds and only certain builds and classes can win content and that’s just not true.

Yes there are ideal team setups and classes/builds for Fractals and Raids but you can win with any class really. Find a guild that just wants to win and you won’t need a reason to bring your class along.

Blood does offer a potential group dps boost in the vampiric traits, with a minor heal. Don’t know if the increase for the whole group warrants using it over another traitline or not.

bearshaman.3421:

Blood does offer a potential group dps boost in the vampiric traits, with a minor heal. Don’t know if the increase for the whole group warrants using it over another traitline or not.

It does not. It would be a 5% DPS increase if everybody was in cleric gear and didn’t crit ever. As for the healing factor… It’s abysmal and does not improve the overall survivability of your team.

The fact that vampirism don’t crit and isn’t affected by ferocity make it way inferior to 1 might stack. In the end, what you give up for this trait might be to great for what you gain.

@Vyrulisse : You are right when you say that it’s not wrong to take a necromancer. Raid are doable whatever the team comp you’ll take. You can even pass some boss with nomad gear. However, the real difficulty for a profession like the necromancer is not to kill bosses or finish raid but to be accepted in a raid party while being suboptimal in everything. The necromancer have nothing that make it a real asset for the group and thus it will forever be in competition with other professions that are known to be better in each of their field of expertise.

bearshaman.3421:

Blood does offer a potential group dps boost in the vampiric traits, with a minor heal. Don’t know if the increase for the whole group warrants using it over another traitline or not.

If I remember correctly it affects up to 9 people, outside of party. Unless it wax changed?!

I like the damage mitigation that comes from Necro minions. More often than not I see the AI targeting minions instead of players which helps when people are trying to do the mechanics (Like break seals in Cliffside.) The CC from Flesh Golem is also strong. I also like how the consistent chill and cripple makes break bars feel squishy in addition to allowing you to kite foes more consistently.

Bring a necromancer so you have someone to make 3rd wheel jokes about. Additionally, you’ll have someone to blame if anything goes wrong.

Xenomorph.5346:

comforting – how hard is it to get that benchmark?

Well, it relies on creating an ice field and then standing directly in it for the duration of RS4. So, as you might imagine, it’s far from most practical thing to do.

narcx.3570:

Necro benchmarks at 33k now

wrong, it’s 34k

mazut.4296:

I agree with most. But to say that almost all necros are bad and thats why they are not welcome is just wrong. Thats just not true. As I said this 2-3 times already, the real reason is people who are clueless and/or don’t/can’t read.

Okay, I sort of felt bad/exaggerating as soon as I typed it—of course not all necro’s are terrible players. BUT, good/experienced raiders will have several different classes geared, and they usually don’t even TRY to join a group as a necro because it’s not worth arguing with the commander/rest of the group about the viability of necro when you can just go as ranger or condiele, get the kill, and never deal with those people again.

So when a necro joins, says necro is their only class/the class they’re using, there’s like a 90% chance at some point in the fight you’re going to hear somebody say “Wait, why the kitten does the necro have Signet of Locus on?”

Wintermute.5408:

Xenomorph.5346:

comforting – how hard is it to get that benchmark?

Well, it relies on creating an ice field and then standing directly in it for the duration of RS4. So, as you might imagine, it’s far from most practical thing to do.

It really depends on your group comp… If you have a pair of FA Ele’s in the raid, it’s impossible to not have a giant lightning field over the boss at all times. If all you have are Rangers/CPS’s/Condi Ele’s it’s pretty easy to avoid their fire fields.

Sublimatio.6981:

narcx.3570:

Necro benchmarks at 33k now

wrong, it’s 34k

qT has 33.8 listed, and I just know that if I rounded up to 34, someone would have left a comment saying, “wrong it’s 33k.”

narcx.3570:

Sublimatio.6981:

narcx.3570:

Necro benchmarks at 33k now

wrong, it’s 34k

qT has 33.8 listed, and I just know that if I rounded up to 34, someone would have left a comment saying, “wrong it’s 33k.”

Not to devalue qT’s work but you’re not being factual and thorough if you treat their benchmarks as if they’re the only ones around

And this is why you raid with guildies/friends (aka real people). Not pugs. To be fair, its more difficult to ensure that pugs are an good. So, they have to use benchmarks and (often outdated) metas to ensure their group members are good.

Though, I maintain that raids are the kind of content where you don’t use a pickup group. You use a premade group of people you trust/get along with. That way, you can maintain quality AND have you fun. You don’t actually NEED top-notch gear or all optional classes. You just need people who know what they are doing and a couple class choices.

People in MMOs tend to have this drive to min-max (its typically how you advance, by getting your numbers to be as high as possible). But in this game, I’d take someone who knows their class, knows what they are doing, and enjoys what they are doing above Joe Progamer who plays a chronomancer with all the right ascended/legendary gear (which he had help getting with his trusty credit card) and has no clue how to play right.

The meaningful rewards from raids are time-gated in any event, so speed-running doesn’t really serve as much of a purpose either.

Honestly, if you enjoy necromancer play it. If you learn how to play it (which you will, if you enjoy playing it) then you’ll also figure out what you bring to the table for each situation.

If you find you aren’t bringing anything, then you probably haven’t figured out how to play it yet. If you find figuring out how to play it is dull, then its probably not the right class for you. Experimentation is the best teacher, I find (you might learn differently too, though). The same can apply for any situation, not just raids.

Sublimatio.6981:

narcx.3570:

Sublimatio.6981:

narcx.3570:

Necro benchmarks at 33k now

wrong, it’s 34k

qT has 33.8 listed, and I just know that if I rounded up to 34, someone would have left a comment saying, “wrong it’s 33k.”

Not to devalue qT’s work but you’re not being factual and thorough if you treat their benchmarks as if they’re the only ones around

Okay, I’m sorry I deprived you of your 200 dps by not doing my due google diligence.

Necroes are currently the kings of fractals. Even with the changes to epidemic, they still melt opposition and with the recent buff to Deathly Chill and the new Plaguelands elite, necros can stack up a LOT of condis in no time. Why, with 2 necros, I’ve seen bleed stacks go from 0 to 100+ in 10 seconds.

I am not an experienced raider, having only done VG so can’t really offer much of an opinion there.

For fractals, you have self-survivablity, condition and add management, a projectile blocker with Corrosive Poison Cloud, and if you’re running blood, someone who can save the pugs from themselves. Best of all, the skill level required to be good at fractals with a Necro is fairly low, so even if other professions might do it better, Necromancers can usually do it with a lot less hassle.

For Raids however, it’s sadly a different story. Most raid bosses are simultaneously both too mobile for most of the Necro’s best damage skills and skill combos (Ice fields + Whirl, projectile finishers from minons, etc) and yet often predictably mobile in a way that builds that don’t work too well in fractals – like Chronomancer (for the average skilled player) or GS PS Warriors- are not only fine, but are must-haves. That + the larger number of players to cover duties (especially the possibility of a healer that can keep everyone standing) means that outside of I think 2 or 3 encounters a necro will probably be bumped for another profession.

I can’t see myself using anything other than my Viper Reaper for T4 fractals unless I’m bored of it, and at the same time, I can’t see myself using my Viper Reaper at all for raids unless the raid needs a condi build for Vale Guardian or something similar my Reaper in full ascended is all that’s available.