Why do pwr and condi builds feel weak?
I don’t think so, we are the attrition profession and therefore most kill everything slower then any other class. So no damage modifiers but instead procs at half or lower health which gravedigger procs only once before the foe is dead since you spam gravedigger. So mostly those procs are useless against trash mobs or in general since the procs are might and vuln which are easier capped at bosses since well bosses are a group event. For condi it is the idea that longer conditions are better conditions which again is useless if your foe is dead in less then 10 seconds. So against trash mobs no chance.
EverythingOP
It feel weak only because the necromancer have a long ramp up for damage while other profession have short ramp up. To put it simply, a mesmer will stack 30 bleed stack in half the time it will take the necromancer to do it. Other profession will rely on burn which hurt a lot more than bleed… etc.
As for power damage, I believe it’s the same. Until you reach 50% of the foes health your damage are steady but there is no real burst. (Gravedigger being anything but a burst skill since it have this horrendous cast time)
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
The DPS of a necromancer against a boss is good, expecially why when the boss go under 50% our dps is a little better than the dps of a lot of other classes. But before the 50% we’re weaker than all the other classes.
Also the necromancer have not a Burst skill to use on the enemy, only the Gravedigger, that can be used as a burst skill but is better to use it as a spam skill when the enemy fall unger 50%hp (in common pve the enemy is dead before you hit him witht he skill, expecially in events).
In common PvE is better to focus on Reaper Shroud, that grant both high direct and condition damage, but it’s still not a burst ability.
Depends what you mean by weak … My necro gives me the easiest ways to kill extremely hard mobs … I think if we gauge a professions performance by it’s ability to kill trash with the motive to advocate changes to the profession, that’s being selective to the benefit of the argument being made.
I ran MH dagger, yesterday. It has less delay than greatsword, its single cleave and some active positioning make it competitive for three trash mobs and superior for one, and it is better at ensuring a “tag” on a mob in a havoc environment.
Scepter is horrible at tagging. It is the worst weapon for the profession. Before I could get 5 bleeds, mobs were burst down but other players. Epidemic usually fails because the mobs are often dead of bursts before the skill completes casting and. Epidemic also does not seem to count as a tag for drops, anyway. Staff’s piercing and AoE burst easily surpasses tagging capability for any of Necromancer’s condition or other utility weapons. Veterans and lower rank mobs die too fast for condition damage to ramp up.
It is true that the raid condi builds just underperform in places where things can die fast, and that could be everywhere except raids and high level fractals. At the moment I am using a build that allows me to spike a bit more at the cost of less overall damage should the fight goes longer:
With this build I can reach 25 stacks of might, vulnurability and 7-9 stacks of burn pretty fast. It may fall behind of power builds, but it allows me to go condi on anywhere I like. What I like about this build is the food, which really shines at night time. The food doesnt have an icd as far as I can see from using and as wiki says, so this gives quite a good source of chill – and bleed, vulnurability and crit chance that comes along with it. As you will reach 25 vulnurability really fast, you will regularly proc the food effect on your autoattacks. Against multiple foes its even better. On mornings I typically switch to condi duration food and Reaper’s Onslaught or Blighter’s Boon if I need heals.
I ran MH dagger, yesterday. It has less delay than greatsword, its single cleave and some active positioning make it competitive for three trash mobs and superior for one, and it is better at ensuring a “tag” on a mob in a havoc environment.
Scepter is horrible at tagging. It is the worst weapon for the profession. Before I could get 5 bleeds, mobs were burst down but other players. Epidemic usually fails because the mobs are often dead of bursts before the skill completes casting and. Epidemic also does not seem to count as a tag for drops, anyway. Staff’s piercing and AoE burst easily surpasses tagging capability for any of Necromancer’s condition or other utility weapons. Veterans and lower rank mobs die too fast for condition damage to ramp up.
OK but tagging isn’t the only factor that determines how ‘weak’ something feels. I mean, Scepter is actually part of the reason my necro is so strong against mobs that people wouldn’t even think about soloing.
So again, what does ‘weak’ mean? Killing trash and tagging doesn’t require ‘strong’ weapons, so I don’t find those activities particularly compelling when arguing something is weak.
Weapons have various uses in the game. If you just want pure DPS output, I think we are particularly lucky in that regard because dagger and GS both deliver those things. We are have access to very good condition builds, better than most other classes. necro class is very versatile.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The loot formula seems to take total damage into account when deciding on award tiers. Too little damage compared to other players on any particular non-champ may give nothing. More damage seems to skew the ratio of trophies and bags.
Low cast-time spike-damage and pre-cast traps like marks are necessary when not soloing.
Greatsword is too slow compared to dagger and staff but axe, scepter, and all of the off-hands are bad at tagging. Shroud 2 and the damaging wells are good.
One problem is Epidemic does not seem to count, CPC does not do enough damage, and condition damage builds do not optimize shroud. – You cannot tag with a condition damage build.
Another problem is greatsword’s lower tagging capability but at least that can be remedied by a weapon swap.
There are two top reasons necro damage is usually crap in pvp scenario:
1. no burst – self explanatory/
2. no godly tier defenses – you can’t have the cake and eat it like guards, warrs or scrappers. Either you have good defense at cost of damage, or good damage at cost of getting blown up easy..
3. no godly tier defenses II – good evade or invulni can avoid both power damage and for example condition inflicting move. But as necro you don’t have that, necro facetanks his damage, so you need defenses vs both of these, leaving little room for offense..
The loot formula seems to take total damage into account when deciding on award tiers. Too little damage compared to other players on any particular non-champ may give nothing. More damage seems to skew the ratio of trophies and bags.
Low cast-time spike-damage and pre-cast traps like marks are necessary when not soloing.
Greatsword is too slow compared to dagger and staff but axe, scepter, and all of the off-hands are bad at tagging. Shroud 2 and the damaging wells are good.
One problem is Epidemic does not seem to count, CPC does not do enough damage, and condition damage builds do not optimize shroud. – You cannot tag with a condition damage build.
Another problem is greatsword’s lower tagging capability but at least that can be remedied by a weapon swap.
Ok, so use dagger or staff AOE … I mean, this isn’t unique to necros … if you want to tag on any profession, you have to choose the right build/weapons. I can’t tag with scepter on my Guardian either, but why would I want to? Same here.
Tagging on necro just requires some thoughtful build choices. I don’t believe it’s indicative of power or condition builds being weak. Again, depends on your definition of weak. My best builds for hard mobs are using exactly the weapons you have complained about being weak.
Maybe I am not explaining this right so I will try, again.
Necromancer’s spike damage capability vs other professions is low. It definitely shows up in how tagging is best on an old-style power build that is remarkably similar to old power-PvP builds well before HoT. This is compared to other professions with more powerful AoE spike damage whether the damage is direct or from conditions. Necro/Reaper has no condition-based spike and is greatsword in a power build is still too slow in response to provide a decent spike. Perhaps certain other professions should have their AoE spike damage trimmed back.
As a side-note, I used tagging capability as a method of finding Necro/Reaper’s spike damage capability. Here is what I learned:
1. Run a power build using shroud, staff, and dagger with optional WoS or high-damage shouts like CthB to tag. They are able to produce sufficient AoE spike damage with low cast time.
2. Do not run condi to tag, at all. There are no tagging condi builds.
OK, now I understand. You are comparing to other professions.
Meh, I have never had a problem tagging with the proper build, even against other professions. There is so much damage going around, it’s not like everyone BUT necros don’t always get the tag for loot. That’s really just a function of timing against others. You don’t need big spike damage to tag, you just need to be smart about how, where and when you apply AOE’s, which we are not lacking.