Guild Wars 2

The title says it all.

Necromancer is literally “Conditions: The Class” yet every other class does conditions much, much better.

Why is necro being holed into some sort of support role? It sucks. It’s not fun. This is just a bad class right now.

Have we the worst condi, direct and hybrid dps of the game?
Have we the worst survavibility in sPvP and roaming WvW?
Yes, but we have a second health bar!1!!1!!!1!!!!

Giving up the jokes, we have the worst condition damage of the game, yes. We have the worst dps of the game and (expecially after the Lich Form nerf) we’re unable to increase it, not even with minions (where they can be used).

We’re not totally the “Condition Class”, we’re more the “Attrition Class” for ANet, that’s how they judge us from the start of the game and that’s the role between they balance us.
We’re the “Corruption Class”, the class that make you weak with your strength, converting what make you strong (boons) into your weakness (weakening conditions).
For ANet we’re not really made to inflict a huge damage, more to be that thing that make others unable to inflict huge damage.

We had a strong condition damage, barely strong as the actual one, but then ANet nerfed Chill damage and we’ve been struck with another bleed source, weak and barely useless (is used because it’s our only condition related grandmaster trait). That was a good thing for the PvE (wich is all balanced around) but a nightmare for who played PvP.

We have more health than all the other classes, then we have lesser survavibility and lesser damage than all the other classes, that’s how ANet balance our class.

Silv.9207:

Have we the worst condi, direct and hybrid dps of the game?
Have we the worst survavibility in sPvP and roaming WvW?
Yes, but we have a second health bar!1!!1!!!1!!!!

Giving up the jokes, we have the worst condition damage of the game, yes. We have the worst dps of the game and (expecially after the Lich Form nerf) we’re unable to increase it, not even with minions (where they can be used).

We’re not totally the “Condition Class”, we’re more the “Attrition Class” for ANet, that’s how they judge us from the start of the game and that’s the role between they balance us.
We’re the “Corruption Class”, the class that make you weak with your strength, converting what make you strong (boons) into your weakness (weakening conditions).
For ANet we’re not really made to inflict a huge damage, more to be that thing that make others unable to inflict huge damage.

We had a strong condition damage, barely strong as the actual one, but then ANet nerfed Chill damage and we’ve been struck with another bleed source, weak and barely useless (is used because it’s our only condition related grandmaster trait). That was a good thing for the PvE (wich is all balanced around) but a nightmare for who played PvP.

We have more health than all the other classes, then we have lesser survavibility and lesser damage than all the other classes, that’s how ANet balance our class.

Being the attrition class only works when there is something to attrite.

When everything pulses random stability, protection and boons are pure candy, there’s nothing to weaken or convert. Even so, most people ignore half of the conditions in the game because who cares about vuln or 2 seconds of weakness.

It’s just stupid. That’s now anet’s game works.

here i thought curses meant a slow death. i’m hoping for you condi preferred folks that the next e-spec brings more condis to the table.

Necromancer is a condition management class. Unfortunately, other professions do not need that skill.

Honestly, yeah. It’s pretty disappointing.

My Necromancer is built for Condition-based damage. Armed with a Scepter, which throws out a Bleed every-single-attack, I expected it’d be a good way to go about things. It’s a fun way to play, I like the theme of the class.

And then I switch to my Warrior, equip vastly inferior quality gear, and wind up with almost twice as much Condition damage, while also being obscenely more difficult to kill. And it honestly feels like an absolute slap in the teeth.

Death Shroud is utter kitten. It feels entirely unfocused. I primarily use it to eat attacks. That’s it. If Tainted Shackles is off-cooldown, I’ll use it for extra DPS. But that’s it. If I recognize an attack that hits hard, I Death Shroud and tank through the shot. But I never linger in Shroud, because it cripples my already lackluster damage.

Why? Because Life Blast is crap outside of Power builds.

What I would rather is that Death Shroud skills changed based on your weapons.

Axe equipped? You get a hard hitting ranged blast.
Scepter? Give me more Conditions.
Staff? Why not some Condition transfers and maybe healing to help allies?

My ranger instantly stacks 20 bleeds. With a longbow. And it does 33% more damage than normal bleeds. Why is my necro so much more meh?

Necromancer condition dps is ‘meh’ because it has Plague Signet and other overpowered condition management skills. I cannot begin to count the number of times my team has requested PS or, for that matter, SoU.

Then I’d rather ditch Plague Signet.

even condi mesmer got better bleeds than necromancer

only thing necro got is double useless health bars that everyone and their grandma are so envious of, condition manipulation and a crap ton of corruption that doesnt do anything to things without boons like most PvE mobs

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancer is a condition management class. Unfortunately, other professions do not need that skill.

Thanks to ridiculous continuous power creep, other classes do not need that skill anymore.

Remember when Guard and Necro, and sorta Mesmer, were the only classes that could clear condis, or at least return them to sender? When the greatest weakness of a warrior or an ele was a long duration condi that they had no way of clearing by themselves?

We have the lowest condition DPS in-game because none of our condition damage is reliant on the enemy standing inside of a combo field. This is a blessing and a curse.

Rising Dusk.2408:

We have the lowest condition DPS in-game because none of our condition damage is reliant on the enemy standing inside of a combo field. This is a blessing and a curse.

Other condition builds have better dps without combo fields too. Also, we have to spin rs 4 in an ice field or poison field to maximize our damage.

Cecilia.5179:

Other condition builds have better dps without combo fields too. Also, we have to spin rs 4 in an ice field or poison field to maximize our damage.

Only we have to stand in the ice field to maximize RS4 DPS. The enemies can move out of the field, so it alleviates a lot of difficulty. You can easily plan the RS5 field sufficiently to hit any raid boss even while moving without missing a chilling bolt.

Competitive PvE Condition Builds:

• Ranger > Torch Fire Fields
• Warrior > Longbow Fire Fields
• Engineer > Bomb Kit Fire Fields

Less-Competitive PvE Condition Builds:

• Thief > Caltrops Fields
• Guardian > Consecration Fire Fields
• Elementalist > Fire Fields

The only other condition builds out there are…

• Mesmer, which is only good against single targets without adds due to phantasm reliance
• Revenant, which is extremely bad due to undertuning but still relies on Mace fire field for damage

Necromancer is in the unique situation where it has Epidemic, 900 range, safe condition DPS, and no worthwhile enemy-must-stay-in-field reliance. Because of these two things, it will never be tuned to be particularly strong.

Other strong PvE condi builds better than necromancer:
Ranger shortbow, Engi pistol, Condi Warrior (sword F1 spam fire projectiles…I mean…), scepter Mesmer, burn Guardian, mallyx Revenant.
I don’t know about eles but they’re not really focused on condition damage.
Also a thief D/D can inflict more condition damage than a necro in some situations.

The necromancer is good only for Epidemic, that grant him to use the Other Classes conditions as his own to hit AoE. But by himself it’s a weak condi class, nothing more.
Totally rely on the Ice/poison field he can do and the RS4 combo to spam damage, out of that it’s condi damage is really weak if compared to almost all the other classes.
Other classes can use fields to increase they’re damage (expecially fire fields), but frequently they don’t need a field to inflict they’re best damage. A necromancer Need a Field to inflict good damage.

About range, ranger, mesmer, warrior (LB, expecially traited), engi, guardian, they all have 900 or more range to hit the enemy with conditions. The only forced to be melee are revenant and thief (and warrior to be at his best with the sword F1). More or less every good condition weapon is a ranged weapon (a thing that made the reve mace a new stuff for this game).

And… what do you mean for “safe condition dps”…?
Still talking about range? Or about the Shroud “hp” bar? Anyway that don’t make any sense, a high range is already a safe place for condi dps.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Cecilia.5179:

Other condition builds have better dps without combo fields too. Also, we have to spin rs 4 in an ice field or poison field to maximize our damage.

Only we have to stand in the ice field to maximize RS4 DPS. The enemies can move out of the field, so it alleviates a lot of difficulty. You can easily plan the RS5 field sufficiently to hit any raid boss even while moving without missing a chilling bolt.

Competitive PvE Condition Builds:

• Ranger > Torch Fire Fields
• Warrior > Longbow Fire Fields
• Engineer > Bomb Kit Fire Fields

Less-Competitive PvE Condition Builds:

• Thief > Caltrops Fields
• Guardian > Consecration Fire Fields
• Elementalist > Fire Fields

The only other condition builds out there are…

• Mesmer, which is only good against single targets without adds due to phantasm reliance
• Revenant, which is extremely bad due to undertuning but still relies on Mace fire field for damage

Necromancer is in the unique situation where it has Epidemic, 900 range, safe condition DPS, and no worthwhile enemy-must-stay-in-field reliance. Because of these two things, it will never be tuned to be particularly strong.

That’s exclusively PvE meta. Thief, Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior, and Engineer have condi builds that do more damage than necro and don’t rely on people standing still in combo fields, and they are pretty common in WvW.

Necromancer could be better at condition dps if the profession had more fear access.

I do not mind building for Terror but Fear was nerfed not long after release (and we can thank Warrior for that), then nerfed again due to Terror being too strong back then.

Here we are in 2016, still nerfed.

Silv.9207:

Other strong PvE condi builds better than necromancer:
Ranger shortbow, Engi pistol, Condi Warrior (sword F1 spam fire projectiles…I mean…), scepter Mesmer, burn Guardian, mallyx Revenant. I don’t know about eles but they’re not really focused on condition damage. Also a thief D/D can inflict more condition damage than a necro in some situations.

• An engi spamming pistol skills only is weaker than a necro.
• A ranger spamming shortbow skills only is weaker than a necro.
• A condi warrior ignoring longbow is weaker than a necro.
• I already addressed the proper mesmer condition build above.
• A condi guardian ignoring the consecration AOE field burns is weaker than a necro… and is probably weaker than a necro even with it.
• A condi revenant both relies on combo fields and is weaker than a necro anyway.
• D/D thief relies on caltrops AOE fields for higher DPS than a necromancer.

All of the classes you mentioned with higher PvE condition DPS than a necromancer rely on enemies standing in fields to achieve that level of DPS. Engineer fire bombs, warrior longbow F1, ranger torch 5, etc. Furthermore, all of these things are without addressing the exponential DPS growth that multiple epidemics offers.

Silv.9207:

About range, ranger, mesmer, warrior (LB, expecially traited), engi, guardian, they all have 900 or more range to hit the enemy with conditions.

The only one of these classes that offers respectable condition DPS numbers beating a Necromancer when camping max range is Engi, and that’s before epidemic. The Necromancer loses minimal DPS overall from missing RS4 when camping range.

Silv.9207:

And… what do you mean for “safe condition dps”…?

If you die on a Necromancer in instanced PvE, you’re either playing it wrong, you screwed up a mechanic, or your whole team is dead and you don’t know how / can’t solo whatever you’re fighting.

Silv.9207:

Anyway that don’t make any sense, a high range is already a safe place for condi dps.

Sure, and Necro does it best in PvE.

Cecilia.5179:

That’s exclusively PvE meta. Thief, Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior, and Engineer have condi builds that do more damage than necro and don’t rely on people standing still in combo fields, and they are pretty common in WvW.

You’re correct, I am strictly speaking about PvE. Epidemic is irrelevant in PvP/WvW, and other classes have better sustain versus CC, better disengage, and an easier time landing their strongest attacks. Furthermore, in PvP/WvW different DPS conditions like torment and confusion are actually vastly superior to how they perform in PvE. So, yes, if you’re talking about other areas of the game you are correct.

P.S. I noted that in my previous post if you care to go back and read it again!

afrocrusade.4253:

The title says it all.

Necromancer is literally “Conditions: The Class” yet every other class does conditions much, much better.

Why is necro being holed into some sort of support role? It sucks. It’s not fun. This is just a bad class right now.

I think it’s important to define what you mean … My condi necro soloes some of the hardest PVE content … none of my other condi classes do that as easy or at all … For me, that makes condi necro way better.

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancer could be better at condition dps if the profession had more fear access.

I do not mind building for Terror but Fear was nerfed not long after release (and we can thank Warrior for that), then nerfed again due to Terror being too strong back then.

Here we are in 2016, still nerfed.

Remove the downed aspect of Fear of Death then merge it with Terror.

I kinda feel like corruptions (and other skills) should play on more condition manipulation and have scaling tricks similar to Epidemic.

Examples:

Blood is Power is based on the number of bleed stacks on you and the target, boosting the might duration by 2% per stack (calculated after the bleeds are put on you and the opponent, so as the skill is now it would gain 12% boosted might duration ).
Corrosive Poison Field poisons you and the target, then places a poison field on the nearest 5 poisoned targets (and you automatically), although the downside would be to make it so only one field can affect enemies (per necro) at a time (so even if 5 overlap, they only take damage from one, it’s more of a zone denial effect)

And so on. Convert condis into other condis, move condis around, spread condis, reflect condis, etc etc.

I’m sure others could think of more tricks.

I wouldn’t say necro has the lowest condi D.P.S application. I would say it has the slowest though.

Being a condi lover, and having played every class in the game at this point, I will heartily disagree that necro is somehow the weakest class in the game for condi. Epidemic is massive, and no one has the ability to just spread conditions like that. Great in fights with one powerful monster and a bunch of adds you don’t want to waste time fighting.

On top of that, the only class that can corrupt boons into conditions, which while not always as useful in pve, does have its uses, and should be kept on hand.

On top of that is condi management. Pull conditions from allies to yourself, and give them to the enemy. Or your minions do it for you. Or Plague Sending/Signet. Or however you want to do it.

3 areas of condi, two unique to the class, that necro is good at. Sure if your enemy stays still, or there is only one enemy, some other classes can hit like a tank with their condi in comparison. But aside from that, we’re doing fine.

MeinUguu.8256:

Axe equipped? You get a hard hitting ranged blast.
Scepter? Give me more Conditions.
Staff? Why not some Condition transfers and maybe healing to help allies?

this is the coolest idea I’ve ever heard. greatsword reaper could get a slow massively hard hitting shroud, dagger could get something with high movespeed+direct dps and lifeleech, etc. maybe it could happen in the next elite spec, but doubtful.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Cecilia.5179:

Other condition builds have better dps without combo fields too. Also, we have to spin rs 4 in an ice field or poison field to maximize our damage.

Only we have to stand in the ice field to maximize RS4 DPS. The enemies can move out of the field, so it alleviates a lot of difficulty. You can easily plan the RS5 field sufficiently to hit any raid boss even while moving without missing a chilling bolt.

Competitive PvE Condition Builds:

• Ranger > Torch Fire Fields
• Warrior > Longbow Fire Fields
• Engineer > Bomb Kit Fire Fields

Less-Competitive PvE Condition Builds:

• Thief > Caltrops Fields
• Guardian > Consecration Fire Fields
• Elementalist > Fire Fields

The only other condition builds out there are…

• Mesmer, which is only good against single targets without adds due to phantasm reliance
• Revenant, which is extremely bad due to undertuning but still relies on Mace fire field for damage

Necromancer is in the unique situation where it has Epidemic, 900 range, safe condition DPS, and no worthwhile enemy-must-stay-in-field reliance. Because of these two things, it will never be tuned to be particularly strong.

Or they just, I don’t know, turn a bunch of our skills into pulsing AoE’s because that’s what would make sense. Scepter 2 and Dagger 5 are absolutely perfect contenders for that, for example.

we have bad self heal skill
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Signet-of-Vampirism-6/first#post6381034

so many fail
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/what-does-anet-wanna-necor-stand-for/first#post6375474