Guild Wars 2

Anyone? There are only a few traits that give us any perks to crits, and afaik conditions don’t crit at all.

Help me understand.

Cause the first 4 trait lines are the same for each profession which makes it necessary to ensure that, no matter where you put your points, at least one of the stats is helpful.

They are not the same. My Ranger gets crit% coupled with crit dmg (makes sense). I would have expected condition dmg to couple with condition duration. In fact I think the Ranger gets that combo as well…

nachtnebel.9168:

Cause the first 4 trait lines are the same for each profession which makes it necessary to ensure that, no matter where you put your points, at least one of the stats is helpful.

Not true, look at guardian trait stat setup.

Sry, the skill planer is use seems to be bugged. Forget what I said.

Cause the first minor trait in that line is 66% chance to stack a bleed on crit. Simple really.

Meaby because the first minor traits add a 66% chance to bleed on crit? And there’s also a major trait that gain life force at crit?
I think it’s because of these.

I rather think those traits are there cause the traitline grants increased percision, not the other way round.

Even so… they have synergy, we have a few traits that are on crit.

Because when you crit, you proc bleeds.

I think that’s silly. If the line stats were Precision + Crit damage (makes sense) and it had conditions that proc’d on crit that would be synergy. It’d be even better synergy if you had Condition Damage + Condition Duration (MAKES SENSE) in the same line as well because you could just put your points in those two lines and be working toward your goal.

Necro trait lines have terrible stat combinations. There’s really no other way of putting it. Like why would a condition necro want to waste points in power just to get condition duration? How would a power spec necro really benefit from that? True they’d each get minor bonuses: condition spec would have a bit more initial damage and power would get a bit more dot damage, but that’s not what makes sense and not what a lot of people want to do.

Instead of balancing the class skills/mechanics they take away your option to choose the way you want to play. You can’t be fully committed to condition damage because you HAVE to have power and they punish you for that extra bit of power. You can’t be fully committed to power/crit because you HAVE to have extra condition damage and they punish you for it.

Honestly, I’ve been playing Necro for hundreds of hours and I like the class but not truly having the option to build my character the way I want it and having the way they force you to build it be completelykitten is making me want to do something different.

Every class has power + condition duration as it’s first trait line. Then it differs, some have crit + critdam, some toughness + cond etc.

That crit trait is nearly worthless tho. 1 sec of bleed (one tick) and 1% life force for a crit. Woo.

Uh, curses is probably our best line in terms of major traits, and the minor traits – with the exception of Furious Demise – are better than most of our major options.

Majors:

• 20% bleed duration. Flat damage boost for condition necros on anything except zerged world bosses.
• 20% reduced cooldown on Corruptions. Blood is Power and Epidemic are both Corruption skills, and are cornerstones of PvE condition builds. Getting 20% reduced CD on them is huge.
• 33% scepter debuff duration. You could also call this “Bleeds: The Bleedening” and you wouldn’t be far off. Roughly half of the bleed stacks on a target are from scepter attacks, either the scepter itself, the crit proc, or the sigil. Getting a big buff to those is a good thing.

Minors:

• 66% chance to bleed for 1s on crit. Probably the second-most powerful minor trait we have, especially given how long our bleeds last. A typical condition necro will get a two second bleed from this; a duration-heavy necro can get 2.5 or 3.
• Furious Demise. This is basically “Let Life Transfer crit all the time” as a minor trait. Our AoE is already good, this just gives us a fast AoE in the case of surprise adds. When they fix Barbed Precision so it works while in Death Shroud, it’ll be even better.
• Target the Weak. The most powerful trait, minor or major, in the necromancer’s arsenal and probably one of the most powerful across all the classes. Our constant-uptime debuffs alone make this a 6% damage increase, and on a full boss it’ll be at least a 14% increase, with short term spikes as high as 22%. Again, when they fix condition damage to be affected by percentage modifiers, this will be godlike.

Outlaw.4078:

I think that’s silly. If the line stats were Precision + Crit damage (makes sense) and it had conditions that proc’d on crit that would be synergy. It’d be even better synergy if you had Condition Damage + Condition Duration (MAKES SENSE) in the same line as well because you could just put your points in those two lines and be working toward your goal.

Necro trait lines have terrible stat combinations. There’s really no other way of putting it. Like why would a condition necro want to waste points in power just to get condition duration? How would a power spec necro really benefit from that? True they’d each get minor bonuses: condition spec would have a bit more initial damage and power would get a bit more dot damage, but that’s not what makes sense and not what a lot of people want to do.

Instead of balancing the class skills/mechanics they take away your option to choose the way you want to play. You can’t be fully committed to condition damage because you HAVE to have power and they punish you for that extra bit of power. You can’t be fully committed to power/crit because you HAVE to have extra condition damage and they punish you for it.

Honestly, I’ve been playing Necro for hundreds of hours and I like the class but not truly having the option to build my character the way I want it and having the way they force you to build it be completelykitten is making me want to do something different.

THIS

I am forced to hybrid Power/Crit% with Condition damage in order to be effective at conditions.

Our class defining mechanic only benefits directly from Power.

Phydeaux.8534:

Minors:

• 66% chance to bleed for 1s on crit. Probably the second-most powerful minor trait we have, especially given how long our bleeds last. A typical condition necro will get a two second bleed from this; a duration-heavy necro can get 2.5 or 3.

I suggest you test this, it’s not possible to get more then a 1 second bleed.

Because the bleed on crit trait used to be good. Now it’s trash along with the ranger’s.

It’s basically forcing you to be a hybrid. Hell initially I think this tree along with Sceptre was meant to be hybrid. You have the trait that does more direct dmg per condition then Feast on Corruption or w/e on sceptre that does more direct dmg per condition.

Phydeaux.8534:

Uh, curses is probably our best line in terms of major traits, and the minor traits – with the exception of Furious Demise – are better than most of our major options.

Majors:

• 20% bleed duration. Flat damage boost for condition necros on anything except zerged world bosses.
• 20% reduced cooldown on Corruptions. Blood is Power and Epidemic are both Corruption skills, and are cornerstones of PvE condition builds. Getting 20% reduced CD on them is huge.
• 33% scepter debuff duration. You could also call this “Bleeds: The Bleedening” and you wouldn’t be far off. Roughly half of the bleed stacks on a target are from scepter attacks, either the scepter itself, the crit proc, or the sigil. Getting a big buff to those is a good thing.

Minors:

• 66% chance to bleed for 1s on crit. Probably the second-most powerful minor trait we have, especially given how long our bleeds last. A typical condition necro will get a two second bleed from this; a duration-heavy necro can get 2.5 or 3.
• Furious Demise. This is basically “Let Life Transfer crit all the time” as a minor trait. Our AoE is already good, this just gives us a fast AoE in the case of surprise adds. When they fix Barbed Precision so it works while in Death Shroud, it’ll be even better.
• Target the Weak. The most powerful trait, minor or major, in the necromancer’s arsenal and probably one of the most powerful across all the classes. Our constant-uptime debuffs alone make this a 6% damage increase, and on a full boss it’ll be at least a 14% increase, with short term spikes as high as 22%. Again, when they fix condition damage to be affected by percentage modifiers, this will be godlike.

Some of this is very wrong lol.

66% chance for 1s bleed is terrible. With 50% crit chance that’s a 33% Chance per hit to do about 100-117 dmg depending on your condition dmg, that’s awful. Certainly better than nothing sure, but still awful, only will add a decent amount of dmg on Life Transfer. Also you need 100% bleed/condition duration to even get 2s bleed from this that’s not super realistic with a good build, you could get up to 70% between power tree 20% bleed trait and 20% cond duration rune set up (which still won’t give you a 2nd tic), but I wouldn’t bother with the bleed duration runes/sigils, that’s just a huge waste of your runes/sigils.

Fury trait is nice for a power build, there’s not much we have that’s good as far as crit procs.

Target the weak isn’t that great either. Most of the time you won’t even get past 10% increase, where as most minor traits that far up in trees at always 10% for nearly every class. And that 22% increase will rarely happen even on bosses, Blind/Fear/Immobilize will not last long at all so realistically the most you will get is 16% which is nice, but this is only on bosses with alot of people attacking, and then you’re being f***ed in thekittenby condition caps anyway.

Also it’s not a bug that % dmg increases don’t affect condition dmg, they’re not supposed to, conditions aren’t affected by dmg reduction, nor dmg increases, only condition dmg.

Dibrom.6408:

I suggest you test this, it’s not possible to get more then a 1 second bleed.

Are you talking about bleeds applied from crit, or from the scepter directly? Because my scepter tooltips are telling me they apply bleed for 4.75 sec (after 20% added condition duration from trait points).

If you’re talking about the on-crit bleeds – yes, they can last more than a second. Without any bonuses, the bleeds always show up lasting for “0 seconds” which means “counting down and currently under 1 second.” With full cond. duration line, you see “1 second” briefly before going back to 0 seconds and then disappearing. 30% of a second isn’t a long time. With the 20% bleed trait and sigil of agony, the 1-second overlap is a bit easier to notice. Just tested in the mists with an axe.

If you had said “on-hit bleeds don’t benefit from extension unless you can get them to 2 seconds, because bleed only tics once per second” then you would have been accurate.

The class was designed to cause conditions on crit even if they dont crit themselves, however this makes us not perform so well with power builds because we need to dispere our pts in soul reaping, curses and spite trait lines.

Are you talking about bleeds applied from crit, or from the scepter directly? Because my scepter tooltips are telling me they apply bleed for 4.75 sec (after 20% added condition duration from trait points).
If you’re talking about the on-crit bleeds – yes, they can last more than a second. Without any bonuses, the bleeds always show up lasting for “0 seconds” which means “counting down and currently under 1 second.” With full cond. duration line, you see “1 second” briefly before going back to 0 seconds and then disappearing. 30% of a second isn’t a long time. With the 20% bleed trait and sigil of agony, the 1-second overlap is a bit easier to notice. Just tested in the mists with an axe.
If you had said “on-hit bleeds don’t benefit from extension unless you can get them to 2 seconds, because bleed only tics once per second” then you would have been accurate.

Ugh, wrong so you pretend to be intelligent about it. I’ll break it down for you:

A) It’s pretty clear I was talking about crits since I mentioned crits and didn’t mention the scepter.

B)It lasts for 1 second, just because you aren’t fast enough to mouse over something doesn’t mean anything.

C) 1 second + 30% + 20% is still 1 second as far as the game is concerned.

D) You can’t get this trait to go over one second. Therefore you can’t do more then one tick of bleed damage. A far cry from your claim of “A typical condition necro will get a two second bleed from this; a duration-heavy necro can get 2.5 or 3.”

Dibrom.6408:

Ugh, wrong so you pretend to be intelligent about it. I’ll break it down for you:

A) It’s pretty clear I was talking about crits since I mentioned crits and didn’t mention the scepter.

B)It lasts for 1 second, just because you aren’t fast enough to mouse over something doesn’t mean anything.

C) 1 second + 30% + 20% is still 1 second as far as the game is concerned.

D) You can’t get this trait to go over one second. Therefore you can’t do more then one tick of bleed damage. A far cry from your claim of “A typical condition necro will get a two second bleed from this; a duration-heavy necro can get 2.5 or 3.”

You should learn to read. I never said a duration-heavy necro could get 2.5 or 3. That was somebody else.

I also specifically talked about on-crit bleeds, which you would have noticed if you’d made it past the first paragraph. You didn’t specify though, so i covered both. The poster above did specify, but i was in the mists looking at bleeds while making my post, so i didn’t see his post until after i issued mine.

You’re wrong about duration increase though, it does matter and it does add up. Having a 1.5 second bleed isn’t “the same thing” because you’re closer to another tic. It may deal the same damage because you didn’t get the extra tic, but the game recognizes the extra duration and displays it properly. If at some point you’re able to extend condition duration beyond 100% then you get two tics and see an increase in damage.

Also, speed of mouseover doesn’t matter if you leave the mouse where the status icon pops up. It would only matter if you had to click all of your skills to activate them.

Jackal.7432:

Dibrom.6408:

I suggest you test this, it’s not possible to get more then a 1 second bleed.

Are you talking about bleeds applied from crit, or from the scepter directly? Because my scepter tooltips are telling me they apply bleed for 4.75 sec (after 20% added condition duration from trait points).

If you’re talking about the on-crit bleeds – yes, they can last more than a second. Without any bonuses, the bleeds always show up lasting for “0 seconds” which means “counting down and currently under 1 second.” With full cond. duration line, you see “1 second” briefly before going back to 0 seconds and then disappearing. 30% of a second isn’t a long time. With the 20% bleed trait and sigil of agony, the 1-second overlap is a bit easier to notice. Just tested in the mists with an axe.

If you had said “on-hit bleeds don’t benefit from extension unless you can get them to 2 seconds, because bleed only tics once per second” then you would have been accurate.

Oh I forgot to mention this.

Sceptre Auto Attack actually applies 5 second base bleeds.

And the trait for 33% longer sceptre conditions is actually 45% for the autoattack and 33% for Grasping Hands.

With 5 seconds, every 20% is 1 extra second, so you would get 7.5 seconds after using the 33% trait, then after putting 10 into the power tree (55% duration) it goes to 7.75 seconds, then 5 more points into power (60% duration) is 8 seconds.

And that is w/o any other condition modifier, so I’m 99% sure after testing that’s how it works.

I have +143% bleed duration but I’m not sure how much i actually get… Also I agree that pre/crd and condm/condu should be in the same line. I see what they’re trying to do with the crits combined with conditions but the build is just so much less viable than a pure condition or pure crit build so in the end they are just making necros weaker.

Knote.2904:

Sceptre Auto Attack actually applies 5 second base bleeds.

And the trait for 33% longer sceptre conditions is actually 45% for the autoattack and 33% for Grasping Hands.

With 5 seconds, every 20% is 1 extra second, so you would get 7.5 seconds after using the 33% trait, then after putting 10 into the power tree (55% duration) it goes to 7.75 seconds, then 5 more points into power (60% duration) is 8 seconds.

And that is w/o any other condition modifier, so I’m 99% sure after testing that’s how it works.

Oh yeah, i forgot about the tooltips being wrong on some skills. I know Blood Curse is like that, but there are probably others.

I wonder if the 33% condition duration for scepter affects crits inflicted by scepter. Probably not, since it isn’t a skill applying the bleed, but that would be interesting, because then we’d be able to get close to 3 second bleeds with scepter crits

You should learn to read. I never said a duration-heavy necro could get 2.5 or 3. That was somebody else.

I also specifically talked about on-crit bleeds, which you would have noticed if you’d made it past the first paragraph. You didn’t specify though, so i covered both. The poster above did specify, but i was in the mists looking at bleeds while making my post, so i didn’t see his post until after i issued mine.

You’re wrong about duration increase though, it does matter and it does add up. Having a 1.5 second bleed isn’t “the same thing” because you’re closer to another tic. It may deal the same damage because you didn’t get the extra tic, but the game recognizes the extra duration and displays it properly. If at some point you’re able to extend condition duration beyond 100% then you get two tics and see an increase in damage.

Also, speed of mouseover doesn’t matter if you leave the mouse where the status icon pops up. It would only matter if you had to click all of your skills to activate them.

You’re right, you are a different poster. That’s about all you’re right about.
“You didn’t specify though, so i covered both. The poster above did specify, but i was in the mists looking at bleeds while making my post, so i didn’t see his post until after i issued mine.”
I actually did specify as I quoted the post you didn’t read.

“If at some point you’re able to extend condition duration beyond 100% then you get two tics and see an increase in damage.”
If at some point is countered you can’t extend the duration beyond 100%. Hence you can’t get more then one tick. ever.

“Also, speed of mouseover doesn’t matter if you leave the mouse where the status icon pops up. It would only matter if you had to click all of your skills to activate them.”
It’s a 1 second bleed. If it weren’t 1 second it would do 0 damage.

It’s really not a hard thing to grasp. The minor trait bleed will do 1 tick of damage reguardless of your build/theorycrafting.

Dibrom.6408:

If at some point is countered you can’t extend the duration beyond 100%. Hence you can’t get more then one tick. ever.

Incorrect. It’s impractical to do so, but if you take the bleed duration sigil along with two each of superior afflicted, centaur, and krait runes, you can break 100% bleed duration. Test it.

I didn’t have any food with me at the time (can you even use food in pvp? i haven’t done enough pvp to worry about it) but there’s food that can extend condition duration by quite a bit, rendering the silly rune configuration unnecessary.

With all duration mods available, it may theoretically be possible to approach 3 tics per crit-applied bleed, but it would be impractical, since at that point you wouldn’t be gearing for enough precision to actually give a decent crit rate.

My comment about the “0 seconds” and “1 second” display has to do with how the game displays timers. If you set your skills to show cooldown times, you’ll see that the skill isn’t ready to use once you get below 1 second but makes you wait through a full second of 0-point-whatever. Similarly, condition durations don’t show decimals; they show floored values. A one second bleed will display as “0” for a second, and then the tic happens. A 1.5 second bleed will show “1” for half a second, then “0” for half a second, then tic, then show “0” for another half a second.

You really should learn these basic mechanics before you start making assumptions about big things like the concept of “ever”

How to approach 3 tics? Best I could get is 15 + 15 + 15 (2x krait, centaur and afflicted) + 20 (bleeding trait) + 30 (condition duration trait line) + 20 (2x bleed sigils) = 115%. What else is there?