Guild Wars 2

Why is invulnerability out of theme for Necros?
Of all the classes out there necros thematically should have invulnerability. Aren’t we the undead monsters, vampires, dark lords that are almost unkillable (LOL Yeah right)? Then maybe we could really be the tank everyone says we are.

Because… DEATH SHROUD!!! Second health bar!! Yay! We are already pretty much invincible because of it right? Right??!

No? :/ Ok…

2-4 seconds of invul would not benefit me in most fights. Stab on DS 4 would be infinitely more useful.

Marthkus.4615:

2-4 seconds of invul would not benefit me in most fights. Stab on DS 4 would be infinitely more useful.

Either or would be fine.. I mean are we tanks? Are we cannons? What are we?
We have about 75% of the tools to make us useful in any particular role(except mobility) but since there is always a class that does the role better we are not in the running for any job. We are called tanks over an over again so give us invuln or better stability and stop nerfing our heals.

Who needs it when you can start every fight with Death Shroud? It syncs well with the rest of our skills and is in no way restrictive.

An invulnerability skill would be very useful for handling focus fire. Death Shroud doesn’t scale for the number of opponents hitting you.

I think there was an idea for a skill in this forum (don’t know where) to allow the user to forcefully enter death shroud with the effect that for a limited amount of time your life force bar couldn’t decrease (both degen and damage). Add stability to this and you got yourself (semi) invulnerability.

Invuln is in theme, we just don’t have one. Not sure why exactly.

Akrasia.5469:

Marthkus.4615:

2-4 seconds of invul would not benefit me in most fights. Stab on DS 4 would be infinitely more useful.

Either or would be fine.. I mean are we tanks? Are we cannons? What are we?
We have about 75% of the tools to make us useful in any particular role(except mobility) but since there is always a class that does the role better we are not in the running for any job. We are called tanks over an over again so give us invuln or better stability and stop nerfing our heals.

In LoL terms we are bruisers. Lots of stats. Tanky, tons of damage, but no where near top damage unless you build glass (but even then still not top damage). And not an infinite tank sponge even if you build that way.

I’m having a blast right now in Pvt gear. Others claim cele works for them.

cele necro is the way to go. 1v2 1v3 people then getting called a baddie is fun.
my cele build i call the wandering condi xfer. soooooo much fun.

also if you run premades (staying in team figts, not wandering around solo) there is a build for perma shroud. IF you dont get focused down :P

Speaking of survivability, why did they change the Spectral effect from 3% LF per hit (no ICD) to 8% per hit (1 sec ICD).

It was scaling! A heavy focus could even regenerate LF! But they removed that. It seems scaling is not a theme for the profession either…

Hahaha, We are not the master of death, we are the master of dying! Invulnerability would only reduce our effectiveness at our core purpose.

I think invulnerability would cause a lot of problems. You can already get incredible tanky. I run a power build wth lots of knights gear and corruptors favor, hell i can already survive a lot.

If you wanna see how strong a necro with invuln is, play a Sylvari necro with the Take Root elite.

mordran.4750:

I think invulnerability would cause a lot of problems. You can already get incredible tanky. I run a power build wth lots of knights gear and corruptors favor, hell i can already survive a lot.

The problem as was said before we’re tanky 1v1 not against focus fire so at best Necros are duelists not tanks (someone else said bruisers) though we don’t excel at anything. We’re ok with a lot of things (except mobility) but not great at anything except condition management and thats reactive not proactive and useless in a lot of situations. As I said on a couple different threads, Necro’s problem is perception. Because of our 2nd lifebar we are perceived to be tanks. But we don’t have the skills to back that up. Just a lifebar that goes down and down.

Khristophoros.7194:

If you wanna see how strong a necro with invuln is, play a Sylvari necro with the Take Root elite.

Doesn’t help in PvP which is the base for balance in the game. My main char is a Sylvari Necro and I would love to bring Take Root into PvP games but can’t.

Well death shroud was originally our downed state so that’s why we are masters of dying lmfao /cryinginside

Ya that take root is pretty amazing in WvW. I remember using it against a thief and then the thief refused to come back and fight because the turrets would destroy him.

Akrasia.5469:

mordran.4750:

I think invulnerability would cause a lot of problems. You can already get incredible tanky. I run a power build wth lots of knights gear and corruptors favor, hell i can already survive a lot.

The problem as was said before we’re tanky 1v1 not against focus fire so at best Necros are duelists not tanks (someone else said bruisers) though we don’t excel at anything. We’re ok with a lot of things (except mobility) but not great at anything except condition management and thats reactive not proactive and useless in a lot of situations. As I said on a couple different threads, Necro’s problem is perception. Because of our 2nd lifebar we are perceived to be tanks. But we don’t have the skills to back that up. Just a lifebar that goes down and down.

Khristophoros.7194:

If you wanna see how strong a necro with invuln is, play a Sylvari necro with the Take Root elite.

Doesn’t help in PvP which is the base for balance in the game. My main char is a Sylvari Necro and I would love to bring Take Root into PvP games but can’t.

Thus why we should have been, or should get changed to the lowest hp pool. Then there would be no reason not to give necros ample active defense, and higher dps.

this is what any developer will tell you. Death Shroud

Brokensunday.4098:

this is what any developer will tell you. Death Shroud

I thought it was because Necros want to get hit.

Swamurabi.7890:

Brokensunday.4098:

this is what any developer will tell you. Death Shroud

I thought it was because Necros want to get hit.

That falls under Death Shroud.

Akrasia.5469:

Khristophoros.7194:

If you wanna see how strong a necro with invuln is, play a Sylvari necro with the Take Root elite.

Doesn’t help in PvP which is the base for balance in the game. My main char is a Sylvari Necro and I would love to bring Take Root into PvP games but can’t.

Well it sounds like sPvP sucks.

But I mean, you could try it in WvW and see how it is. Then you’d know how a necro with invuln is.

because anet have this delusional vision of necro as an unstoppable tank and for some reason think necro is op and have proven over and over that they know less then nothing about the class and how it stands at all.

for a class with 0 invuln and 0 mobility and almost 0 leaps (we have one easy to dodge/outrun one) they think stability is not required lol!! should be the class with the most acess to it even more then warrior who can run away

I think you should look at Death Shroud as an invulnerability of sorts. The difference is it has a damage cap with a maintenance cost (more like a damage shield I guess) instead of a fixed duration. on the plus side, it is much more flexible than a 3 second invuln with a 50 second cooldown.

Don’t see how invulnerables will fix DS. Currently DS has a serious problem in focus fire situations. Soulution? Reaper, but it’s a while off and problem now is still a problem.

As it stands, I don´t think you can truly compare DS to invulns and the like.

Shroud just doesn´t offer the same protection against burst damage like actual invulnerability (Warrior, Ele, Ranger, Guardian, Mesmer, Engineer), blocks (Warrior, Ele, Ranger, Guardian, Mesmer, Engineer) and evades (Thief, Warrior, Ele, Ranger, Mesmer) do.

Combine that with little to no combat mobility and BOOM, you got yourself a Necromancer.

Skoigoth.9238:

As it stands, I don´t think you can truly compare DS to invulns and the like.

Shroud just doesn´t offer the same protection against burst damage like actual invulnerability (Warrior, Ele, Ranger, Guardian, Mesmer, Engineer), blocks (Warrior, Ele, Ranger, Guardian, Mesmer, Engineer) and evades (Thief, Warrior, Ele, Ranger, Mesmer) do.

Combine that with little to no combat mobility and BOOM, you got yourself a Necromancer.

Just to play devil’s advocate (because I don’t actually disagree with you), DS may not offer the same type of invuln, but the low CD and relative ease of increasing your LF pool means it offers much more flexibility. You can’t eat 1 big burst as well, but you can constantly eat little ones. E.g., I literally cannot remember the last time I let a thief’s
backstab or a Guardian’s WW hit my actual health pool. So, while a necro perhaps isn’t on par as a teamfighter, it really shines in solo point defense/offense (1v1, 1v2) situations where you can easily watch for telegraphed skills and manage your health bar. Just my 2c, and perhaps what the dev’s were going for.

Whoever said that FitG should be 2 stacks of stability for 4 secs in another thread had it right.

Well it’s been said before, but…deathshroud. That is the excuse behind everything necros don’t have…

Fair enough, but I think it’s the role it is intended to play. If it isn’t filling that role, then that should be addressed, but trying to band-aid that issue by adding invulnerability is ignoring whatever the underlying concern is.

Salamander.2504:

Skoigoth.9238:

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Just to play devil’s advocate (because I don’t actually disagree with you), DS may not offer the same type of invuln, but the low CD and relative ease of increasing your LF pool means it offers much more flexibility. You can’t eat 1 big burst as well, but you can constantly eat little ones. E.g., I literally cannot remember the last time I let a thief’s backstab or a Guardian’s WW hit my actual health pool. So, while a necro perhaps isn’t on par as a teamfighter, it really shines in solo point defense/offense (1v1, 1v2) situations where you can easily watch for telegraphed skills and manage your health bar. Just my 2c, and perhaps what the dev’s were going for.

Well, if it isn´t a big burst but a small one, it isn´t really a burst, right?

But yes, I see what you mean. It´s not like I think the Shroud mechanic is totally dysfunctional. I just don´t think it works well enough to replace actual invulns/blocks/evades altogether.
Moreover, to deny one single class (!), out of eight classes available, access to a wide range of mechanics that to a large degree define GW2´s combat system AND not giving that class something truly awesome in exchange, to make up for this deficit, is a weird and totally inexplicable design choice to me.

It makes me sad panda.

Plague form is our invulnerability. Spam #2 and win.

The only way we could possible get a pseudo invuln out of DS without actually giving us an invuln on DS entry trait. Would be to give us a condi immunity on DS entry trait. Combine that with foot in the grave. That way whenever we enter DS to absorb damage we avoid the conditions and the stability counters any CC. Then hopefully we have enough life force to negate the damage. And we can generate it back and repeat.

Or we could just have a simple solution and give us active defence through traits just like every other class. Can even be tied directly into DS traits so we are forced to use our class mechanic to survive. Jesus kitten its so simple and yet its so frustrating that nothing has been done.

spoj.9672:

The only way we could possible get a pseudo invuln out of DS without actually giving us an invuln on DS entry trait. Would be to give us a condi immunity on DS entry trait. Combine that with foot in the grave. That way whenever we enter DS to absorb damage we avoid the conditions and the stability counters any CC. Then hopefully we have enough life force to negate the damage. And we can generate it back and repeat.

they should put foot in the grave like old shade.

spoj.9672:

Or we could just have a simple solution and give us active defence through traits just like every other class. Can even be tied directly into DS traits so we are forced to use our class mechanic to survive. Jesus kitten its so simple and yet its so frustrating that nothing has been done.

they should give us new skill on ds from heal to elite that would help in a big way and not being op

because our form of invulnerability is more health, so if anything the best way to gain invulnerability is a skill that gives a ton of life force quickly.

striker.3704:

because our form of invulnerability is more health, so if anything the best way to gain invulnerability is a skill that gives a ton of life force quickly.

then why not make a skill that turn all damage recived lets say in 4 secs turn to life force and life