Guild Wars 2

Okay, I’m getting a little bit ill of the debate over what to do with DOOMfire and Terror. So, since lingering curses and the weakness trait (neither) are really comparable imo or as important, why not just put both under Grand Master Curses, Raise the fire on DOOMFire to like 5 seconds or make the CD lower like 8, and just make them mutually exclusive that way? I’m not really an expert on the matter but it seems like it’d kill a few birds with one stone…

“Doomfire” as in Doom+Dhuumfire?
Heh, nice one!

Anyway, Ara.4569 suggested almost the same thing before you.

I think that it’s an interesting idea.
Not only would it nerf Terror builds it would also buff Hybrids.
I’ve gone 30 Spite, 30 Curses on a Hybrid build before .
Hybrids could use both Close to Death and Dhuumfire on 1 build, which would definitely make them stronger.

At the same time it’d mostly (but not completely) knock Terror builds back at the level they were before the patch.
They’d still be strong, but not as strong as they are now.

LastDay.3524:

At the same time it’d mostly (but not completely) knock Terror builds back at the level they were before the patch.
They’d still be strong, but not as strong as they are now.

We are talking about 20 extra points required in Curses. That’s 20 points removed from elsewhere (Reaper’s Protection and Foot in the Grave?) compared to before patch, how is this “back at level”?

I find moving Dhuumfire to Blood Magic (or any other line) much more reasonable, as it just removes the +30% condi duration gain.

yroeht.5843:

LastDay.3524:

At the same time it’d mostly (but not completely) knock Terror builds back at the level they were before the patch.
They’d still be strong, but not as strong as they are now.

We are talking about 20 extra points required in Curses. That’s 20 points removed from elsewhere (Reaper’s Protection and Foot in the Grave?) compared to before patch, how is this “back at level”?

I find moving Dhuumfire to Blood Magic (or any other line) much more reasonable, as it just removes the +30% condi duration gain.

If you do that we’re back to trait placement not making any sense and random traits just thrown everywhere. If they did this they could even buff Terror a little bit, (it could use it anyways after the sigil of paralization nerf). Terror is a pretty specific thing, I’m not so sure it shouldn’t be a grand master just because of how definitive and powerful it really is. Its design and uniqueness alone screams Grand Master. If its too weak then make it a proper grand master, problem solved. You still have 40 points to put in another tree, and you won’t have to worry about spite as much anymore because of the “required” Dhuumfire. 0/30/20/0/20 would still work. Or 0/30/10/0/30 if you want.

ronpierce.2760:

. 0/30/20/0/20 would still work. Or 0/30/10/0/30 if you want.

And this is exactly my point: they would become mutually exclusive, which imho is a(n unwanted) nerf.

yroeht.5843:

ronpierce.2760:

. 0/30/20/0/20 would still work. Or 0/30/10/0/30 if you want.

And this is exactly my point: they would become mutually exclusive, which imho is a(n unwanted) nerf.

That’s what people want is for them to not be together. Together the condition burst is just too much, especially for a ranged set up.

yroeht.5843:

LastDay.3524:

At the same time it’d mostly (but not completely) knock Terror builds back at the level they were before the patch.
They’d still be strong, but not as strong as they are now.

We are talking about 20 extra points required in Curses. That’s 20 points removed from elsewhere (Reaper’s Protection and Foot in the Grave?) compared to before patch, how is this “back at level”?

Torment, extra Doom duration, and the new Spectral Wall and Signet of Spite are still all there.
Before Dhuumfire Doom had 1second base duration, Spectral Wall applied Vulnerability instead of Fear and Signet of Spite was terribad.

yroeht.5843:

I find moving Dhuumfire to Blood Magic (or any other line) much more reasonable, as it just removes the +30% condi duration gain.

That has been one of my personal suggestions!
I don’t think that it’ll happen, but it’d be interesting to see.

However I really do believe that Anet valued Master of Terror way too high.
If Terror Necro had to go 20 Curses, 10 Death Magic and 20 Soul Reaping they would lack 10 points for Dhuumfire.

I don’t think Dhuumfire was added as a buff to Terror builds.
If it was they would have just made it into a Curses GM trait.

It was meant to increase build variety.
Unfortunately it did the opposite.

ronpierce.2760:

yroeht.5843:

ronpierce.2760:

. 0/30/20/0/20 would still work. Or 0/30/10/0/30 if you want.

And this is exactly my point: they would become mutually exclusive, which imho is a(n unwanted) nerf.

That’s what people want is for them to not be together. Together the condition burst is just too much, especially for a ranged set up.

You are of course aware I was talking about Reaper’s Protection and Foot in the Grave, right?

yroeht.5843:

ronpierce.2760:

yroeht.5843:

ronpierce.2760:

. 0/30/20/0/20 would still work. Or 0/30/10/0/30 if you want.

And this is exactly my point: they would become mutually exclusive, which imho is a(n unwanted) nerf.

That’s what people want is for them to not be together. Together the condition burst is just too much, especially for a ranged set up.

You are of course aware I was talking about Reaper’s Protection and Foot in the Grave, right?

Personally, I feel like that’s a choice… That’s what they want. I don’t think losing reapers protection (with the 90s CD) is too big of a hit over having near 50% stability uptime, but that’s just me. They do want us to have to think not have every trait we want at our disposal, that’s the fun in finding a good build.

Condi builds need the Terror damage to work. They shouldn’t have to go into the Power line just to be viable. It also doesn’t make sense to have two Grandmaster traits in the same line that do much the same thing.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Condi builds need the Terror damage to work. They shouldn’t have to go into the Power line just to be viable. It also doesn’t make sense to have two Grandmaster traits in the same line that do much the same thing.

They’re not the same. A huge dot on a CC-focused build versus more (and more direct) damage on a crit based build that also covers an additional condi spot making condies harder to sweep off. They both have very different uses.

I don’t know if this is the specific fix needed, but it could work. This doesn’t hit Conditionmancers at all, and makes Burning and Terror mutually exclusive. The 30/30/10 hybrids could go back to CtD and have Terror or Burning, and still remain similar but less ridiculous in damage, and we can finally get back to buffing our dang defense.

ronpierce.2760:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Condi builds need the Terror damage to work. They shouldn’t have to go into the Power line just to be viable. It also doesn’t make sense to have two Grandmaster traits in the same line that do much the same thing.

They’re not the same. A huge dot on a CC-focused build versus more (and more direct) damage on a crit based build that also covers an additional condi spot making condies harder to sweep off. They both have very different uses.

Regardkitten th traits give comparable condi damage as part of a condi burst. If they were competing for the same Grandmaster slot in someone’s traits, whichever one happened to be tuned higher would be the one everyone would take virtually all the time. It would be like if Close to Death had to compete with a trait that could give you a damage buff on crit for 5 seconds with a 10 second ICD. The precise mechanics are different but you’d effectively be using them for the same thing.

Blaine Tog.8304:

ronpierce.2760:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Condi builds need the Terror damage to work. They shouldn’t have to go into the Power line just to be viable. It also doesn’t make sense to have two Grandmaster traits in the same line that do much the same thing.

They’re not the same. A huge dot on a CC-focused build versus more (and more direct) damage on a crit based build that also covers an additional condi spot making condies harder to sweep off. They both have very different uses.

Regardkitten th traits give comparable condi damage as part of a condi burst. If they were competing for the same Grandmaster slot in someone’s traits, whichever one happened to be tuned higher would be the one everyone would take virtually all the time. It would be like if Close to Death had to compete with a trait that could give you a damage buff on crit for 5 seconds with a 10 second ICD. The precise mechanics are different but you’d effectively be using them for the same thing.

And again, the bigger issue is that it would destroy Terrormancer condi builds, which don’t have the 30 points to spare on Spite.

I’m not sure what you mean by having 30 points to spare for spite considering I said Terror and Dhuum would be 30 points in curses, maybe I’m just not following you?

My mistake, it’s late and I need to go to sleep. My point is, if Spite-users are picking between adding one of two high-damage, low duration conditions to their burst rotation for their grandmaster trait, it’s going to be a false choice. One option will be clearly better at any given time and the other will be a noob trap.

(Editing my previous post now to remove the sleep deprivation. Again, sorry for the confusion!)