Guild Wars 2

Not many upset posts with:

Removing DS being able to used as block. Leaving necro as the only class that doesn’t have Vigor/Endurance Regen/Block/Invul/Reflect. (Totally locking us out of many dungeon boss fights, and some world boss fights.)

Adding a 1sec ICD to max% life force Spectrals can do. Giving us no tools to defend against groups vs us.

Multi-nerfs to fear/bleeds/etc to accommodate dumbfire. Reducing the burning to 2 seconds in sPvP, unlike say 6sec on a auto-attack of other class.

Stopped our ranged res being fastest cast, meaning our only role or thing we did better than others was condi manipulation.

Ninja-Silent Stealth Nerf on Putrid Mark. No longer removes all condi’s, only 3. No longer removes condi’s from allies. Took months to even get a reply, as intended, tooltip will be updated 4-6months after the nerf… Mixed with the cap on our convert boons to condi’s, ment we no longer had a role as condi manipulation.

Then they add a new heal skill, that’s useless. But our other heals skills are actually quite nice, so it’s not game braking in the slightest, just ‘meh’. The forums light up.
Am I missing something?

You apparently missed all of the posts bashing those nerfs. There were a lot of them.

Yup all of those things hurt at the time.

But with this patch, Anet specifically said they are nerfing conditions in PvP (I guess to match how they aren’t viable at all in PvE?) and that we should be an attrition class and use Death Shroud to help survive.

The problem is we are the worst at attrition, and our new heal skill which could have helped light the way for what Anet wants us to be – turned out to be the worst heal in the game. It’s not useful in any situation at all.

Futhermore, DS is just a short period where we are locked out of all our skills, utilities and return to the same low health we were on before. It’s not an invun we can sit in to heal up and use mobility skills.

The whole thing was a giant Necro nerf.

And it was painful to see the devs in the livestream demo spend 10mins+ on the other classes, and then come to the Necro and spend like 30 seconds showing the Necro getting completely owned by the test Golem and then not say anything and rush to the next class.

Nar I was there QQ’ing my little heart out about total loss of attrition. Just find it weird, that there’s been over 1,000 posts in a single day about the new heals skill.

Oh and my personal fav, was the ‘how to play guides’. Warrior with 2 dev’s giggling away, showing off multi-warrior spec’s that own other class’s.
Then the very short necro one, with a necro with no traits sitting in LA, mousing over Runes, then saying that healing power is one of the best things for a necro.

Because the healing skill felt more like a slap in the face. You can always argue that nerfs are justified, whether you like it or not. There will be complaining, but the rest of those changes were debated. Not everyone universally hated those changes, in fact (as usual) I have defended at least the idea behind many of them. But they are debatable.

The difference this time? SoV is essentially useless in an optimized build. It has a few very niche uses that are still questionable (and certainly don’t change the game at all in them), and that’s it. There is actually very, very little debate when it comes to this skill, its just bad. And that isn’t even the worst part. The worst part is that they actually screwed the skill up from what it almost was. The datamined version was in a vastly different direction. Plus, their complete lack of any emotion when they showed it.

The healing skill was like someone promising you a pizza party, and then showing up with a slice of pepperoni.

Part of the reaction also, I would assume, is due to the fact that these things build up over time until the necro players have enough, at which point the forum explodes. Dhuumfire, all the subsequent nerfs to other skills, little in the way of practical (not theoretical) increased survivability all add up…

Until things reach a critical mass which was reached by giving us a crap heal with little/no perceived interest from the devs (SoV), a nerf to necro survivability (weakening shroud) and a hard counter to the condition necro (diamond skin).

The discontent here has been building up over time and this is the result

Don’t take it personal guys it’s all just part of there migration promo. They need us to quit so they can get in more new unaware players to sell gems to. Gotta milk that cash cow cuz it’s getting old and may die soon.

kailin.4905:

Don’t take it personal guys it’s all just part of there migration promo. They need us to quit so they can get in more new unaware players to sell gems to. Gotta milk that cash cow cuz it’s getting old and may die soon.

Wildstar right around the corner…. could be a self inflicted wound intentionally.

There’s always outrage when people are forced to make changes to the things they’ve become comfortable with.

Rennoko.5731:

Wildstar right around the corner…. could be a self inflicted wound intentionally.

Wildstar looks like a load of crap.

Rennoko.5731:

kailin.4905:

Don’t take it personal guys it’s all just part of there migration promo. They need us to quit so they can get in more new unaware players to sell gems to. Gotta milk that cash cow cuz it’s getting old and may die soon.

Wildstar right around the corner…. could be a self inflicted wound intentionally.

More of a bullet in the head if you ask me. But in all seriousness the box price just keeps dropping and design and balance philosophies are dropping like flies. It implies to me they are trying to just get all they can while they can.

Answer is simple, this was just “another” final drop and a clear confirmation of most necro’s suspicions.

hackks.3687:

There’s always outrage when people are forced to make changes to the things they’ve become comfortable with.

We’ve become too comfortable with not playing a warrior like the devs.

Fair enough. I guess I’d given up playing before this patch was even talked about, putrid mark was the final, we have NOTHING left for me. Then the dev’s saying quite a few things like:

“Any proposal we talk about always ends up with more work than we have time to build, much less test. "

Made me go, well at least they know, and an’t trying to bullcat us. Sota got me playing a little when friends are on. Tho, yeh on my Guard.

As for WildStar. I was initially ‘meh’. The more I see tho, the more ‘fun’ it actually looks.
Combat system that is focused on movement/skill placement, instead of AutoAttack.
Dungeons & PvE focused stuff that’s not a total mess.
I guess the real exciting one for me is a house that’s has useful things in it. (You can even just tele to it out of combat, instead of having to tele across the map then enter it)
Oh and being able to swap role/template’s.
Oh and it’ll also be nice to in a futuristic MMO.

Sorry going on. But there’s just been a heap of little things that made me go, oh actually that sounds fun.

Anyways, let’s hope with the pure volume of not so happy necro’s. They actually take action, fixing up our attrition again. I did really enjoy my necro for a while.

everyone knows about all those things mentioned. This was a brand new skill (supposedly) and was a complete flop. This was a chance for new content and even something that might have made vamp builds more viable and appealing. Not even close.

It was disheartening lol. Was almost a joke imo.

I don’t even get mad anymore lol. Just a game. I mean it is what it is. Who cares. lol I don’t feel it necessary to struggle with such imbalance anymore it’s like trying to build a house out of smoke. Not really gonna happen. Gotta take it for what it is. I play for the luls and stuff. Still fun fun

TheDevice.2751:

everyone knows about all those things mentioned. This was a brand new skill (supposedly) and was a complete flop. This was a chance for new content and even something that might have made vamp builds more viable and appealing. Not even close.

It was disheartening lol. Was almost a joke imo.

I don’t even get mad anymore lol. Just a game. I mean it is what it is. Who cares. lol I don’t feel it necessary to struggle with such imbalance anymore it’s like trying to build a house out of smoke. Not really gonna happen. Gotta take it for what it is. I play for the luls and stuff. Still fun fun

That’s why I can’t wait for ESO.

It’s just latent and not so latent discontent with balance policies and progress that has festered and percolated into a fine brew is all.

The new “heal” was just the timer on the machine letting us know the bitter joe was ready.

They want necros move to other specs. Diamond Skin is the living proof. Not to mention engi’s automated response or warrior’s berserker stance. I would be ok with that if they had buffed a bit our other weapons like axe, warhorn, focus and staff. Why any team would like a power necro when power any other class is better at dd/dps than us?
Necros can’t stay in melee range cause necros don’t have enough protection, stability, sustain. Condis is the only thing necros excel at. And now there are too many counters.

Wait… what? They added a ICD to spectral life generation? seriously?

I haven’t been playing much wvw or pvp since I’ve been mostly crafting if I can get in game but was this even a necessary change? I mostly use spectral abilities for their utilities and the life force generation is a bonus, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind this change.

Monoman.2068:

Wait… what? They added a ICD to spectral life generation? seriously?

I haven’t been playing much wvw or pvp since I’ve been mostly crafting if I can get in game but was this even a necessary change? I mostly use spectral abilities for their utilities and the life force generation is a bonus, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind this change.

Consider that they buffed Spectral Armor from 3% when hit to 8% when hit as well as let it apply while in death shroud. The ICD there was actually justified (though it was a nerf if you get hit 3 times per second).

Bweaty.9187:

Am I missing something?

Greater marks for 20 was a huge nerf from my pov too… The new mark size does not help…

However I would not say it is the current patch or changes to the necromancer that where made with this patch. Its more the complete package. Changes to other classes making it really hard to play nec and feel good. If the person know what he does many classes are simply a lot on top of the nec. As also it is the main problem that exists since relase – the nec is one of the worst classes in the game. There is nearly no diversity and any good things they implement get nerfed pretty fast and hard without providing new (good) stuff. I feel more and more useless if I compare nec to other classes and if I think about what choises I really have when it comes to traits and so on. That’s the problem and that’s why everyone is upset…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Consider that they buffed Spectral Armor from 3% when hit to 8% when hit as well as let it apply while in death shroud. The ICD there was actually justified (though it was a nerf if you get hit 3 times per second).

This.

Realize that this “bad” patch actually took Spectral Armor from a never used skill to the best defensive option to absorb damage we have.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Monoman.2068:

Wait… what? They added a ICD to spectral life generation? seriously?

I haven’t been playing much wvw or pvp since I’ve been mostly crafting if I can get in game but was this even a necessary change? I mostly use spectral abilities for their utilities and the life force generation is a bonus, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind this change.

Consider that they buffed Spectral Armor from 3% when hit to 8% when hit as well as let it apply while in death shroud. The ICD there was actually justified (though it was a nerf if you get hit 3 times per second).

Ah it’s from that patch, I never saw that point or forgot. Thanks for the response.

borrok.9267:

TheDevice.2751:

everyone knows about all those things mentioned. This was a brand new skill (supposedly) and was a complete flop. This was a chance for new content and even something that might have made vamp builds more viable and appealing. Not even close.

It was disheartening lol. Was almost a joke imo.

I don’t even get mad anymore lol. Just a game. I mean it is what it is. Who cares. lol I don’t feel it necessary to struggle with such imbalance anymore it’s like trying to build a house out of smoke. Not really gonna happen. Gotta take it for what it is. I play for the luls and stuff. Still fun fun

That’s why I can’t wait for ESO.

ESO is not looking good brother, people are jumping that ship. the game wouldnt be ready for release if they worked on it for another year.

mistsim.2748:

borrok.9267:

TheDevice.2751:

everyone knows about all those things mentioned. This was a brand new skill (supposedly) and was a complete flop. This was a chance for new content and even something that might have made vamp builds more viable and appealing. Not even close.

It was disheartening lol. Was almost a joke imo.

I don’t even get mad anymore lol. Just a game. I mean it is what it is. Who cares. lol I don’t feel it necessary to struggle with such imbalance anymore it’s like trying to build a house out of smoke. Not really gonna happen. Gotta take it for what it is. I play for the luls and stuff. Still fun fun

That’s why I can’t wait for ESO.

ESO is not looking good brother, people are jumping that ship. the game wouldnt be ready for release if they worked on it for another year.

Sounds alot like the game we are currently playing

mistsim.2748:

ESO is not looking good brother, people are jumping that ship. the game wouldnt be ready for release if they worked on it for another year.

Thats what happens with a game with a TERRIBLE combat system. It looks AWFUL.

mistsim.2748:

borrok.9267:

TheDevice.2751:

everyone knows about all those things mentioned. This was a brand new skill (supposedly) and was a complete flop. This was a chance for new content and even something that might have made vamp builds more viable and appealing. Not even close.

It was disheartening lol. Was almost a joke imo.

I don’t even get mad anymore lol. Just a game. I mean it is what it is. Who cares. lol I don’t feel it necessary to struggle with such imbalance anymore it’s like trying to build a house out of smoke. Not really gonna happen. Gotta take it for what it is. I play for the luls and stuff. Still fun fun

That’s why I can’t wait for ESO.

ESO is not looking good brother, people are jumping that ship. the game wouldnt be ready for release if they worked on it for another year.

IDK what I’m going to do then lol

cubed.2853:

There is nearly no diversity

Master of conditions was never a great hat to hang a class on. There is too much cleansing in the game making those conditions totally unreliable and random as to which ones can actually stick or make a difference in a fight. And they’ve only added more and more cleansing, and now outright immunity, to condis as its went along.

Compare condis to boons say, that are much harder to remove, and are dependable when granted by teammates, its just night and day.

The only actual way for condis to pack a threat is by sheer overwhelming number of them, the very thing that Anet’s balancing is suggesting they don’t want.

It seems to me they are very lost about what this class is supposed to contribute.

Total honesty here: This is coming from a Thief main whose Necro is only level 20. I cannot understand your class at the moment or the depths to which it was nerfed. But I can say that my class has been getting significantly nerfed since launch, and I think it’s for the same reason:

There are just some poor design elements in certain classes in this game.

GW2 combat seems built for Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers. Those classes are obviously well designed and, because of that, they’re fun. At the moment, half the game’s classes aren’t functioning well and the other half are absolutely facerolling. Luckily, the game’s PVE content is so easy that almost any party can succeed. Unfortunately, the “You can run 5 Thieves in endgame content if you want!” promise from launch is just not true due to the design challenges of making a Trinity-less game.

However…

I don’t think these are game-crippling challenges.

These are mostly numbers adjustments that need to happen. This is buffing some things, nerfing others. Toning down Warriors’ scaling with might in PVE, scaling up Healing Power, etc. They can be done with comparatively little development time.

I know. The rub seems to be that the devs are pushing all the wrong buttons.

And indeed, in some ways, they might be running for the fire extinguisher during a flood. I, along with everyone who plays this game —- and the devs themselves —- want better balancing and design to be done. There’s been a lot of bad so far, but a lot more good, IMHO. As funny as it was, being able to 100-0 any class in SPVP as a Thief was not good for the game, and I’m glad it’s gone. All I’m saying is that there are a lot of good things happening in this game, and that we should just keep giving feedback and make balance better.

These conspiracy theories are just silly. There is no major game company in the world that buffs and nerfs in order to make money… because that’s a horrible way to make money. It wouldn’t work.

I don’t know.

If there’s anything I learned from being a 6-year Feral Druid in WoW, it’s that you don’t base your entire outlook on a game or perspective of “fun” on the dev’s ability to balance classes properly. MMO’s have hundreds of stats, spells, passive effects, and etc. That is just too many variables to create a really balanced experience, since inasmuch as classes differ, they are imbalanced. There is a reason MOBA’s only give each champion 4-5 abilities. IMHO, no MMO will ever be MLG-ready on a balance level. But I’ve come to accept it. I still play my Thief sometimes, but I’ve also got an Elementalist and a Mesmer up-and-coming.

I tried gluing myself to one class/spec and saying “No, I’m going to MAKE this as good as the other classes!” It ended up being a huge waste, because the devs just couldn’t get Feral right. I’m not gonna do that again. I guess I don’t know why I typed all this. I hope that we can learn to find fun in the game anyway. Otherwise, we should leave. Right?

I gave up weeks ago when Anet decided to push though with the Mark of Blood nerf. When they push though such a nerf that’s flat out a mistake for all to see, there is nothing left to talk about.

Hasn’t really played at all for the past few weeks. Didn’t even bother with that new FoTM or Winter’s Day. Been playing other games. >_>

Collaborative development doesn’t apply to necros.

I am mostly outrages because Signet of Vampirism had such great potential, and they turned it into a boring and useless skill. Its not just that the skill sucks, its that they had a skill that was high risk high reward, and would have been useful if used correctly, and then decided to gut it completely.

Also kind of kitten ed at the nerf to weakening shroud(2 sec weakness, really?), and A-Nets general lack of logic when making changes for the game.

Diamond Skin is such a terrible trait to add to the game. It is either OP, or useless. And it is also passive, so there is no risk vs reward, skill, counter play, anything. Just a terribly balanced and lazy trait. PvP balancing in this game keeps getting worse and worse(nerfing sword thief back to back patches even though they were in the lower tier already).

It’s just a terrible shame that they added more classes to the game than they can realistically keep balanced. I’m sure it all looks nice when people make a character for the first time, but then you decide to pick the necromancer, and it seems the development team just wasn’t as interested as fleshing out this class, as they were with the guardian. And that’s a shame, because there was a lot of potential. A lot of traits for the necromancer just seemed rushed in at the last minute, and there are a lot that never see any use.

And now we get this patch, and this feeling of disinterest in our class is further reinforced. They must have known that this healing signet was rubbish, which is why they skipped over the necromancer so fast in the stream. Why would you add a rubbish skill if you know it is rubbish? Then don’t add the skill.

I would have been fine with it if they had stated: “We need more time to find a proper healing skill for the necromancer, so for now he’ll be the only class that doesn’t get one yet.”

That would have been better than giving us a useless skill, and then pretending it is A-okay, when they know it’s not. No necro would use this skill, ever.

Guardian and warrior are easy to envision. One is the brawler, the other a battle cleric. The necromancer on the other hand was all over the place.

DS started as the necro down state, then turned into the triggered class ability. End result was that someone turn him into a uber-bunker during the last beta weekend, with the result that DS was nerfed without feedback right before launch.

After seeing the DS+retaliation build that surfaced the other day, i wonder if that is what ANet is balancing around. A necro that builds up a bit of LF, pops into DS, does damage, runs out of LF and drops out of DS, rinse repeat.

Another thing i hate – everything is balanced around the worst/best case scenario for this class

They refuse to buff something (or they nerf something) because it has the potential to affect 5 different people in several different ways – everyone knows that their Necro has a better chance of shooting Hayley’s comet out of their own corn holes than these theoretical scenarios occurring, but that’s what we get stuck with on this class.

Lets not forget power Necros suffering nerfs because A-net wants to tone down conditions – that was completely awesome.. more nerfs for desert.

Just another rant…. played my Mesmer tonight.. killed heaps of people without issue.. died once from a fat finger error – and you wonder why Necros complain about defensive issues. Mesmers are untouchable in WvW and Necros are a big damage sponge like Barney the purple dinosaur.

Avigrus.2871:

Another thing i hate – everything is balanced around the worst/best case scenario for this class

They refuse to buff something (or they nerf something) because it has the potential to affect 5 different people in several different ways – everyone knows that their Necro has a better chance of shooting Hayley’s comet out of their own corn holes than these theoretical scenarios occurring, but that’s what we get stuck with on this class.

Lets not forget power Necros suffering nerfs because A-net wants to tone down conditions – that was completely awesome.. more nerfs for desert.

Just another rant…. played my Mesmer tonight.. killed heaps of people without issue.. died once from a fat finger error – and you wonder why Necros complain about defensive issues. Mesmers are untouchable in WvW and Necros are a big damage sponge like Barney the purple dinosaur.

So much truth in every part of this post… So much…

I play GW because I like playing Necromancers. How they have been treated in this game has made me begin looking at other games to play after only 4 months.

GW1 is what got me hooked on this. I thought it was one of the greatest games I ever played. I am beginning to feel seriously dissatisfied with my purchase.

Simple.

This patch is much much more noticeable than all those previous nerfs.
If people don’t use DS to block OHKO, they ain’t affected by the falling damage nerf.
And some people don’t notice the condition transfer number
Then some people never use signet to rez, etc, etc

This patch, everyone in the game is getting a new skill. I repeat, a new skill, that people dream about for months. And when the patch come, everyone will discuss it, the warrior guildy, or the thief in LA. So obviously people pay more attention to it. And then when they test it, even an 8 yo can know it’s absolutely garbage. Start the active, dropping everything on target, and you see nothing changes on your health bar. Ofc people rage.

Pendragon.8735:

It seems to me they are very lost about what this class is supposed to contribute.

Sad but true. This is my feeling since the beta. At that time I still had hope, but now more than a year has passed … I have more and more the feeling to be a holdover from the previous game.

I hardly ever post on the forums but after a few days of play following the new patch, I would also like to voice my concerns.

Running a wvw condition necro with full vit and toughness armor I fail to see this ‘survivability’ element that the devs refer to. I’ve also run power and zerker builds with the same issue. This new heal skill (with nothing put in healing) was terrible and ticking 100 hp a second roughly. On my warrior I get 400 a second heal, now I understand that with the necro you regen 300 hp on each hit but in WVW that’s pretty useless when a standard hit can see me loosing 1000hp+ .

We have a serious mobility and stun break issue that seems to come passively for the likes of the warrior class. Saying that the Necro isn’t as kittenome people make out but we are in the weaker tier. Some have made some great suggestions to buff the weaker skills and I would really like Anet to sit up and take notice.

For me most of the outrage comes from the fact that ANet pretended they were interested in communicating and then proceeded to ignore every single concern raised and kitten out another patch which just screws the balance even harder. They couldn’t even properly justify any of the nerfs.

im a fresh necro and play only wvw. what i think: necro is awesome in large fights. aoe, prots, fears, boon removal, chill, blind with excelent sustain. sometimes i just wach, press buttons, laugh and collect bags. sorry guys but i cant understand your problem. if u want to cry try ranger

Just one problem with your assessment, McWolfy: necros do not have excellent sustain. They have the worst. You also tried a neco in literally its strongest environment, which is ZvZ in WvW.

Actually, in zergs many Necromancer builds have amazing sustain. WvW is where you can actually see the insane Necro sustain that we should be able to achieve elsewhere.

PvE we can also have really good sustain, but the situations where we do are pretty easy anyway.

digiowl.9620:

Guardian and warrior are easy to envision. One is the brawler, the other a battle cleric. The necromancer on the other hand was all over the place.

DS started as the necro down state, then turned into the triggered class ability. End result was that someone turn him into a uber-bunker during the last beta weekend, with the result that DS was nerfed without feedback right before launch.

After seeing the DS+retaliation build that surfaced the other day, i wonder if that is what ANet is balancing around. A necro that builds up a bit of LF, pops into DS, does damage, runs out of LF and drops out of DS, rinse repeat.

I disagree, totally, that necromancers lacks themes available to the devs. There are tons of them to pick from. The devs just chose to ignore them.

I have said this many times. The devs should just reduce necro health by 50%. Yes go ahead nerf our useless health. But give us somethings cool in return. Somethings that defines a necromancer. We are not just balls of tanky meat ok? Devs you may want us to be just balls of tanky meat, but we find it very boring and un-necromancer.

Start off, there was the GW1 necro which every necro player loved. If not we won’t be here. I am not going to spent too much time explaining what these themes are. But how about giving us something related to:

-Hexing enemies to disable them (GW1 curses)
-Life sacrificing for power (GW1 high risk high reward system)
-Summon TONS of weaker minions as the body count increases (GW1 minion master) (Right now necro minions are exactly the same thing as elementalist summons. Necro’s should be related to death.)
-DS skill recharge time decrease by 3 seconds each time someone dies (GW1’s theme of getting stronger as people dies.)

Outer of GW1, there are still tons of necro themes:

-Vampires (nuff said)

-Darkness (the video game): I just do not understand how the devs can turn something as cool as The Darkness into the junk that’s Death Shroud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6WKYAZXlCA

-Demon summoning

-Bats, insects, etc

I wish they would just make Necro’s Fears work on PvE bosses, again. The profession is the least effective of all when it comes to end-game pve; lackluster dps, no signature skills that are effective on anything with Defiant, and no stand-out party support skills, either.

Tringsh.2380 : " I understand that with the necro you regen 300 hp on each hit "

Actually it’s not “each hit” It’s “On hit and once per second”. So you can be hitten 100 time during this second, you will only heal yourself by 300. Same goe for the active part, the idea is awesome but the final result is terribly bad. We could manage something with 25 charge or the 1 second ICD but with both… Absolutely not.

Siphon wise, I still can’t understand why they divide damage part and healing part in the scaling. Would we really be awesome with a full healing power stuff/build? I don’t think. When you play healing power you loose a lot of damage and with our siphon value (out of perfectly optimal situation), that’s just a waste.

But, still, there have been some good things in the laters patch. MM are in a pretty good spot now. I had been able to solo all the tower with a simple MM build. This make us pretty rubbish while Minion were total garbage for a long time.

Power spec are probably our weak point and i still wait for a buff here. Maybe one day…

If you want to know what we are up against, look at the quote below from JP early in the discussion about the patch.

“JonPeters

Game Design Lead

Next

Rennoko.5731:

JonPeters.5630:

We talked about a condition like that, but it blows out because we would want to balance it when you only had 1 target to apply it to, but if you epidemic it it now is hitting 6 targets and is wildly OP.

So just lock that skill out from working with epidemic? Like a stun or a daze.

How about 2 necros using this…"
************************************

What about 5 necros…or 10….or 20? You can see how silly that statement is by JP.

Our skills balance is even predicated on the possibility of more than one necro even being there and using the same skill simultaneously. This is just plain bizzare. Do they balance say 100 blades for a warrior on the basis that there might be more than one…NO……what a joke? Looking for excuses to bury the necro skills again. Just bizzare.

Except two 100b is literally just 2 100bs damage together. Epidemic though, gets a lot scarier.

For example:
One target has 7 conditions, 4 allies nearby with no conditions.
First epidemic spreads conditions, now all people have 7 conditions – effect of the conditions increased by 4x over the team
Second epidemic spreads conditions, now 1 person has 7 conditions, 4 people have “14” conditions (obviously stacked) – effect of the original 7 conditions is now 8x increased

The problem in his example was that they wanted to introduce a condition that needed to be balanced for 1 target application only. Being able to quadruple that condition would have forced them to balance it to that situation. That is how game design works, niche scenarios are very important to balance to, because while they might be rare, they still need to be considered.

This is actually an issue. The problem with many Necromancer traits/skills that remain unbalanced is due to semi-infinite scaling because they have no built-in limiters. This is why Vampiric and Vampiric precision will forever remain bad so long as they don’t have an ICD to limit them.

And yet, Defiant Stance was put out where the potential truly is infinite.

I can understand why it was a unique debuff, and not a condition. On top of Epidemic considerations, there is also condition cleansing and duration that would factor in, not to mention traits like Target the Weak.

Oldbugga.7029:

If you want to know what we are up against, look at the quote below from JP early in the discussion about the patch.

“JonPeters

Game Design Lead

Next

Rennoko.5731:

JonPeters.5630:

We talked about a condition like that, but it blows out because we would want to balance it when you only had 1 target to apply it to, but if you epidemic it it now is hitting 6 targets and is wildly OP.

So just lock that skill out from working with epidemic? Like a stun or a daze.

How about 2 necros using this…"
************************************

What about 5 necros…or 10….or 20? You can see how silly that statement is by JP.

Our skills balance is even predicated on the possibility of more than one necro even being there and using the same skill simultaneously. This is just plain bizzare. Do they balance say 100 blades for a warrior on the basis that there might be more than one…NO……what a joke? Looking for excuses to bury the necro skills again. Just bizzare.

I don’t know if you followed this quote right… the issue here was more a problem of ownership of that particular “special” debuff if multiple people cast it.

If you stun someone, and your stun lasts 2 seconds, and someone else casts a 1 second stun right aftedr you , it replaces you 2 second stun with his 1 second stuff. It just takes the most recent application. This prevents stacking of stuns for long durations, and helps prevent stun-lock.

But for instance the DS5 debuff. If I cast it, and then 10 other nearby necros cast it on the same target, he doesn’t get 10 applications of the “tainted shackles” debuff… he gets one… MINE, the first cast one…

In reference to the quote, if I cast a special debuff that allowed me to steal life, what happened if someone else cast their version over it? Would mine still work? Would it get overridden giving me no healing?

So look at the signet. They made it so ANYONE can steal off the marked target, not just the necro, and made the effect so weak as to not overpower anything. Too weak…