I’m trying to understand this thread
Necro’s are now terrible because they dislike a new healing skill that was added?
No. The main point is the devs rushed this healing skill out the door before it was ready. This indicates that necros are at the very bottom of their priority list (other classes’ new healing skills are actually useful).
At the same time nerfs to skills like Mark of Blood indicates that the devs have no idea what’s wrong with the necro or how to fix it. (hint: Dhuumfire)
In fact, the Devs has said flat out that “We got some ideas for necros, but we never have the time to test them. We have to work on other professions first. None of us devs here plays necro and none of us here enjoy playing necro.”
In this past interview, the devs spent like 30 seconds on this new necro healing skill. Then in Traherne’s voice “Moving on!”
-Necros are low priority.
-Devs have no idea what to do.
-This is not the first time. Things like this has been going on for over a year.
Hope now you understand why we necro players are very worried.
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I tried out the new healing skill, Signet of Vampirism, in a dungeon and agaist Shatterer and am convinced its only use is as a group heal. It has two things going for it that Well of Blood does not; caster gets some heal no matter what versus potentially getting nothing using Targetable Wells, and other group members also can get heals no matter where they stand so long as they hit the target. WoB, on the other hand, can add a Protect for those inside and siphon. The actual heal amounts I have not finished comparing but I would hope it is stronger for others than WoB is to increase Necro’s attractiveness in team formation.
If it works out right, Necromancers should receive requests from group members to run that sigil instead of any other heal. The sigil, if good enough, ought to skirt the issues caused by condition caps and damage scaling in PvE by giving the profession a party-support tool similar to a Guardian’s. SoV may need tweaking but I think I like it.
If Arenanet can also revisit effectiveness of staff, the trait skills, and a signet, or two, in PvE and give the profession a couple of weapons to fill in the gaps we previously identified, then the Necromancer may be a lot closer to done. That sound like a lot of work, now that I think of it.
Pretty sure yourself get some healing right after casting Well of Blood.
What saddens me the most is that life stealing was always underpowered in Guild Wars 1, and never got fixed. So many years of experience with that unbalance and then they do the same thing for Guilds Wars 2. Boggles my mind.
I think we can confidently say that it will probably never be fixed. Give up on life stealing fellow necromancers.
Back in GW1 I went around the weak damage of Life Stealing by being a Dark Aura bomber. I steal life and then throw those life away for damage. It was super high risk, but my damage was unmatched. With experience and good timing, I was often the deadliest player in my team in dungeons. In fact I often told my monks to put me on low priority of their healing. I rarely got hit. I was that good with it.
High risk, high reward. That’s how I love to play my necro. To me it fitted the necro theme very well. Necros would risk and sacrafice absolutely everything, even their own life, for that extra ounce of power to defeat their foes.
In GW2, they took away that high risk, high reward option. So now blood magic just sucks now.
It was the same thing with other classes and builds. Back in GW1 we can equip whatever skill we want. So a garbage skill can be made useful when we find a good combination. The choices were unlimited. Our character is indeed OUR UNIQUE character.
GW2 took that away.
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Necro will be close friends ranger, they are both bottom tier characters from now on.
I can’t understand why arenanet has such hate towards necros. Necros needed buffs not nerfs, they were already so underpowered with high dependance to conditions. If dhuumfire is the reason of all these nerfs why not remove dhuumfire instead of other great abilities? Also conditions mean nothing in wvw, they can’t even deal damage with instant cleanses. My main character is a necro, but sorry i refuse to play necro from now on. They have to buff necro for pve with same dps amount of a warrior, and useful power based aoes for wvw. I say again, stop making us depend on conditions they mean nothing at pve and wvw. Also new healing skill is a joke, if it really needs an icd, why doesn’t warrior healing doesn’t have such 1s icd? They fully restore their health in a wvw zerg easily. I think they are trying to say us : Play warrior or don’t play our game at all. All hail warrior master race.
Necro will be close friends ranger, they are both bottom tier characters from now on.
I can’t understand why arenanet has such hate towards necros. Necros needed buffs not nerfs, they were already so underpowered with high dependance to conditions. If dhuumfire is the reason of all these nerfs why not remove dhuumfire instead of other great abilities? Also conditions mean nothing in wvw, they can’t even deal damage with instant cleanses. My main character is a necro, but sorry i refuse to play necro from now on. They have to buff necro for pve with same dps amount of a warrior, and useful power based aoes for wvw. I say again, stop making us depend on conditions they mean nothing at pve and wvw. Also new healing skill is a joke, if it really needs an icd, why doesn’t warrior healing doesn’t have such 1s icd? They fully restore their health in a wvw zerg easily. I think they are trying to say us : Play warrior or don’t play our game at all. All hail warrior master race.
I hate to agree with you on most of that but I have to. I have mained a necro since I started this game and I have loved it. I keep playing him but I just do not know anymore. I can still do amazing dmg and take on 2 maybe 3 players but it is getting harder and harder to master how to do it. And so made a warrior first day I went into the mist and did a hotjoin he could take on like 4 no problem and kill them so fast as a condi build. Which seemed to do more dmg then what my necro could do. Then I switched him to a support build and he still does crazy dmg to everything…… so all hail warriors?
Exactly. I recently came to the Necro from Ranger, and I just can’t understand what the problem is. In large scale WvW, at least, the Necro is light years ahead of the Ranger. I mean, fun and actually useful at the same time.
So it’s just a matter of perspective. It would probably be different coming to Necro from say a Warrior or Guardian. Or, to long time Necros experiencing nerfs.
/shrug
Yeh, face value necro’s are awesome. Vs 1v1 or Trash mobs, we can seem over powered. We get some good ‘aoe tagging’ for WvW Zergs & such getting lots of loots.
But there’s soo many little things. As a ranger, you ever tried ‘rooting’ a necro in WvW. As our spells are ‘projectiles’ we can’t shoot our feet/roots.
How awesome is a ranger under water? Our elite pet die’s and get’s 1min CD for getting wet…
Dare I say, I’d much rather a blind & your insane pet res on downed state. (I think pet getting auto-re summoned if dead, is just…)
Anyway, I do also think that the Ranger has some of the major flaws of a necro. Condi & Pet focused. Which don’t work very nicely in this game, particularly PvE.
I’m trying to understand this thread
Necro’s are now terrible because they dislike a new healing skill that was added?
Tis why I started the thread, all the horrible things they done since the ‘balance patch’s’ adding something that was no good, that we didn’t need anyway. Huge outrage.
It seems, to be the ‘straw that broke the camels back’.
That, nerf’s to current stuff, at least they trying. That tho we may not agree, there had to be some reason behind it. The major huge ‘role of your class’, was taken from us, and wasn’t even added into patch notes.
So yeh, it’s easier to voice stuff, when your 100% sure it’s crap from the start.
Signet of Vampirism was supposed to be our saving grace to support in teams. Well its more of a sick joke of how low can this heal go…
I thought Necros being monsters was your saving grace on teams.
Reading this thread, it seems like a lot of you were wanting basically the Warrior Healing Signet, which to be honest I don’t blame you, who wouldn’t want that overpowered Heal..
You not getting that overpowered heal doesn’t mean your class “sucks” all of a sudden
The class has many many many more underlying issues and the slap in the face they call a heal was the straw on the camels back for a lot of people. No one is saying necro sucks because the new heal sucks, they are saying the class is fundamentally flawed and they gave it a kittenty heal with a nerf meanwhile buffing other classes to be anti-condition monsters. If you nerf one class and buff another you get this nice balance gap. That’s what’s happening here. They made an unbalance more unbalanced and failed to correct the issues that are present. It’s pretty obvious arenanet favors Mesmer warrior and guardian. . . .
Back in GW1 I went around the weak damage of Life Stealing by being a Dark Aura bomber. I steal life and then throw those life away for damage. It was super high risk, but my damage was unmatched. With experience and good timing, I was often the deadliest player in my team in dungeons. In fact I often told my monks to put me on low priority of their healing. I rarely got hit. I was that good with it.
High risk, high reward. That’s how I love to play my necro. To me it fitted the necro theme very well. Necros would risk and sacrafice absolutely everything, even their own life, for that extra ounce of power to defeat their foes.
You are spot on. That high risk, high reward is missing from our class. I played a life stealing necromancer in GW1 as well, by stacking life siphon and life transfer, along with a mana shield. I had finely balanced out my class so that I could just about regenerate any loss of energy that my shield blocked, while my low amount of health would instantly refill to max due to the life stealing. I rarely needed a monk to heal me.
(BTW, for this encounter I also brought Remove Hex to get rid of Wurm Bile on myself, and I equipped an offhand focus that greatly boosted my max energy, but at the expense of less energy regeneration. Basically I relied on my Superior Soul Reaping for energy, rather than natural regeneration. Because I figured this would be a fight of attrition.)
But make no mistake, life stealing was very weak in GW1. It was always the red headed stepchild, and only with very niche builds could you make it work.
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The silence from A-net has been deafening for months.
I really don’t care anymore…
The silence from A-net has been deafening for months.
I really don’t care anymore…
Go back a few pages of threads and read the justifications some of the devs gave for class changes and you’ll see just how clueless and out of touch they are with their own game.
I switched back and forth last night between SoV and WoB confirming for myself that WoB heals the caster even when targeted somewhere else, something I never intentionally did preferring to face-tank while dropping the heal on allies. WoB heals a lot more than SoV even with Bloodthirst.
The concept for SoV is still good, I think, but the heal needs a serious boost. A wells build just heals more and can add Protect and syphon.
I tried SoV for MM and a full slot of signets. It works better for MM. Signets do not synergise with each other enough to have its own build. If Arenanet wanted to, they could add a trait that shortens CD slightly depending on how many signets are slotted as utilities. I would stick the trait in Death Magic after combining the four (?) minion skills into two.
The concept for SoV is still good, I think, but the heal needs a serious boost.
SOV will never get a better heal, at least on the active side because of the damage that’s tied to it. It’s basically one of the few skills that could be called a hex.
There is no reason Arenanet cannot adjust the formula converting damage to health independently for caster, target, and allies in WvW, PvP, and PvE. The heal cannot punish the caster too much and must be enticing enough for other professions to request it. At the same time, it should also count on similar heals from other group members but, overall, it must increase the Necromancer’s attractiveness so I expect it to offer more group value than a full wells build.
I’ve done it plenty of times. All of that assumes they are paying attention, which I have found to very often not be the case, especially when you’re talking about big ZvZs in closed areas. People just do not pay that close of attention, they press WASD in random sequences while rolling their faces over their keyboard until either they die or the enemy dies.
I’m sure it is sometimes different in the very high tier (although I have played at that level long ago, and it wasn’t any different, there were just more idiots to fill the BGs than at low tiers, and a few organized guilds to do 95% of the real work), but in general I find your run-of-the-mill WvW player in a zerg to behave as intelligently as a normal PvE mob.
Bhawb, a question. The fact that a necromancer is potentially capable of damaging and healing for 22k by a trait when the stars align is wildly overpowered and thuss should not be buffed but staying rather underpowered in “normal” situations is acceptable right? At least according to Anet. YET there are skills/spells in this game that grant immunity like renewed focus/endure pain/vigor (as in extra evade) that have the POTENTIAL to “absorb” an unlimited (when the stars align much more then 22k+) amount of damage which can be seen as “healed/prevented damage” is perfectly balanced around maximum potential?
I dont know what is more gamebreaking, an elementalist who mistsforms through a zerg “potentially” absorbing 200k damage entering a gate and is able to defend a structure or this necro who tries the same thing and got his stars aligned and healed for 22k and lived for 0.75 seconds longer then he was suppoost to.
If this game was truly balanced around maximum potential there would be no immunities of ANY kind wherever in this game.
Back in GW1 I went around the weak damage of Life Stealing by being a Dark Aura bomber. I steal life and then throw those life away for damage. It was super high risk, but my damage was unmatched. With experience and good timing, I was often the deadliest player in my team in dungeons. In fact I often told my monks to put me on low priority of their healing. I rarely got hit. I was that good with it.
High risk, high reward. That’s how I love to play my necro. To me it fitted the necro theme very well. Necros would risk and sacrafice absolutely everything, even their own life, for that extra ounce of power to defeat their foes.
You are spot on. That high risk, high reward is missing from our class. I played a life stealing necromancer in GW1 as well, by stacking life siphon and life transfer, along with a mana shield. I had finely balanced out my class so that I could just about regenerate any loss of energy that my shield blocked, while my low amount of health would instantly refill to max due to the life stealing. I rarely needed a monk to heal me.
(BTW, for this encounter I also brought Remove Hex to get rid of Wurm Bile on myself, and I equipped an offhand focus that greatly boosted my max energy, but at the expense of less energy regeneration. Basically I relied on my Superior Soul Reaping for energy, rather than natural regeneration. Because I figured this would be a fight of attrition.)
But make no mistake, life stealing was very weak in GW1. It was always the red headed stepchild, and only with very niche builds could you make it work.
I am kind of confused by the video. You are playing a necro but your skill bar are ranger skills. Either way nice work haha.
I did so many crazy tests back in GW1. For example remember how everyone laughed at the Meteor Shower warrior? Well I got it working (sort of). :P
Other experiments are flat out insane, and only necro guru’s would understand WTF I was trying to do. ^^
And finally, here was my ultimate necro build that I made to kill overpowered Winds of Change hardmode mobs. To all you GW2 necro kids that think we got attrition, think again! My necro 300 years ago was totally immune to conditions and hexes, and also made my whole party immune to conditions. Too crazy to be true? Watch how a GW1 S-Rank Category-5 necromancer destroy her foes. Witness our true power, that was lost from 300 years ago! XD
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Server lag double post. :P
I am kind of confused by the video. You are playing a necro but your skill bar are ranger skills. Either way nice work haha.
That’s one of my dead team mates recording it. You can see his ranger skillbar, but not mine, since I’m not the one recording it.
And finally, here was my ultimate necro build that I made to kill overpowered Winds of Change hardmode mobs. To all you GW2 necro kids that think we got attrition, think again! My necro 300 years ago was totally immune to conditions and hexes, and also made my whole party immune to conditions. Too crazy to be true? Watch how a GW1 S-Rank Category-5 necromancer destroy her foes. Witness our true power, that was lost from 300 years ago! XD
That’s sort of what I did with my build against Frost Maw, but just focused on myself, not the team. I could remove any hexes at will, heal myself (did not need a monk), provided my own damage reduction, and heavy sustained single target damage.
In GW1 you normally always needed a healer in your party, but there were ways around that. You could create a necromancer that could keep herself alive, without outside help.
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These conspiracy theories are just silly. There is no major game company in the world that buffs and nerfs in order to make money… because that’s a horrible way to make money. It wouldn’t work.
I played Nexon’s Maplestory. I dare you, i double dare you, say that one more time!
I am kind of confused by the video. You are playing a necro but your skill bar are ranger skills. Either way nice work haha.
That’s one of my dead team mates recording it. You can see his ranger skillbar, but not mine, since I’m not the one recording it.
And finally, here was my ultimate necro build that I made to kill overpowered Winds of Change hardmode mobs. To all you GW2 necro kids that think we got attrition, think again! My necro 300 years ago was totally immune to conditions and hexes, and also made my whole party immune to conditions. Too crazy to be true? Watch how a GW1 S-Rank Category-5 necromancer destroy her foes. Witness our true power, that was lost from 300 years ago! XD
That’s sort of what I did with my build against Frost Maw, but just focused on myself, not the team. I could remove any hexes at will, heal myself (did not need a monk), provided my own damage reduction, and heavy sustained single target damage.
In GW1 you normally always needed a healer in your party, but there were ways around that. You could create a necromancer that could keep herself alive, without outside help.
Yeah, we were all unique back in GW1. We could really create some crazy builds. Good times. ^^
I wasn’t kidding when I said, by lore, one GW1 character can take on five or more GW2 characters at the same time. GW2 characters who learn skills from schools can never match the power of GW1 characters who learn skills from monsters and other ancient sources. GW2 characters are part of an army, while GW1 characters are elite heroes.
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Yeah, we were all unique back in GW1. We could really create some crazy builds. Good times. ^^
I wasn’t kidding when I said, by lore, one GW1 character can take on five or more GW2 characters at the same time. GW2 characters who learn skills from schools can never match the power of GW1 characters who learn skills from monsters and other ancient sources. GW2 characters are part of an army, while GW1 characters are elite heroes.
It’s true. The GW1 necromancer made you feel like a hero. A single power house.
The GW2 necromancer kind of makes me feel like someone who inspects the floor a lot.
Yeah, we were all unique back in GW1. We could really create some crazy builds. Good times. ^^
I wasn’t kidding when I said, by lore, one GW1 character can take on five or more GW2 characters at the same time. GW2 characters who learn skills from schools can never match the power of GW1 characters who learn skills from monsters and other ancient sources. GW2 characters are part of an army, while GW1 characters are elite heroes.
It’s true. The GW1 necromancer made you feel like a hero. A single power house.
The GW2 necromancer kind of makes me feel like someone who inspects the floor a lot.
I think main problems are, condition system is broken in many ways and necro depends on conditions a lot.
Minions have so little hp even after hp buff in order to be effective against dungeon mobs or high level pve open world areas.
If you want to try power builds, you have to use melee power weapons but necro’s role is definitely staying ranged. As we can see, no invulnerability or so little stability access requires us to stay ranged to a cc/melee train in wvw. This is a huge contradiction.
These problems need to be fixed asap.
By the way, I also recommend my fellow necromancers to post in this thread, regarding our Death Shroud:
Please comment on the problems with our main class mechanic, and what you’d like to see improved. Lets try and get the attention of the balance team for this.
I think main problems are, condition system is broken in many ways and necro depends on conditions a lot.
Yes, this is a huge problem with our class.
Minions have so little hp even after hp buff in order to be effective against dungeon mobs or high level pve open world areas.
To be fair, minions are in a good place in some of the other parts of the game, but they need to scale better against dungeon mobs and bosses. And for the love of Grenth, can they please make the Jade Maw stop targeting our reanimator minions?
If you want to try power builds, you have to use melee power weapons but necro’s role is definitely staying ranged. As we can see, no invulnerability or so little stability access requires us to stay ranged to a cc/melee train in wvw. This is a huge contradiction.
These problems need to be fixed asap.
I’ve switched to a well-o-mancer for that reason, but I await the nerfs to that, and then I’ll once again have to find another viable build.
(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)
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