Guild Wars 2

So i’m looking for a 5th class to level up, a scholar to be exact… and to be double-exact necro. I like necros in gw1, they were great.. not sure in gw2 since iv never touched one. XD

So why should I roll a necro? What are some Pros and strong play styles. How well do you fair in Pve and Dungeons? (screw pvp so far). Im more interesting on how well necros do dungeons, how well can you support your team… not so interested in a selfish class :x

I like the idea of minion masters but I hear they are crap in dungeons.. your thoughts?
Ill be waiting for responses telling me this is a great class :D

For the shear unmitigated awesome of mastering the dark arts.

Deathshroud is just ridiculously fun. Dive into the middle of 6-8 critters, drops wells on them, detonation AoEs and PBAoEs weapon skills like you bought them on clearance, and then when everything in the visible universe hates you with the passion of 1,000 black suns, you turn into a roiling cloud of death and hide your life bar behind a bubbling, hissing mass of even more PBAoEs. Insert maniacal cackling here.

…Then click once to loot the entire graveyard you just had installed.

Roll Necro.

Because when you can’t find a party, you re-animate one.

You can load your entire right-hand tray with stinking, decaying, fawning, lovely servants who never ever ask for a raise or burst into tears when you tell them to kill 30 rabbits for the daily. No, these guys do what they’re told, and the do it without one word of complaint (the bit of meat sliding off and plopping to the ground was not a complaint). And having 6 NPCs following you around just waiting to do pile that centaur over there at your slightest whim is what being a dark lord is all about some days.

Roll Necro.

I just started a necro. I’m enjoying the class thus far. They seem to be pretty tough and flexible. I’m thinking, with the wells, they’re AOE is pretty good.

I’m pretty sure I level this one up to 80 which will give me 4 level 80’s.

Because when you get the sniffles, entire armies die.

That’s right you’re a plague-carrying machine, a Typhoid Mary, a walking epidemic, and you lover to share. Conditionmancy isn’t just theorycraft when you pull on the black cowl, its some of the most brutal sustained AoE in the game. Epidemic is the one-touch annihilator when you copy the 83 conditions on that world boss over there onto every single NPC in a truly shocking radius… Today’s forecast calls for heavy rain – that is to say sheets and streams of white numbers rolling up of off every NPC in sight until they explode like little red water balloons.

Roll Necro.

Power Necro is responsible for maintaining 25 stacks of vulnerability on the enemy while dealing reasonable DPS.

Condition Necro is as above, except replace vulnerability with Bleed and replace enemy with every enemy.

Necro is also capable of maintaining over 15 stacks of Might solo. This means that you aren’t as dependable on group comp to reach full potential.

The best part of Necro – Death Shroud , a big OHKITTEN button that absorbs damage and allows you to gap close or run away.

Because Necros are master of life and death.
Because we don’t pull our punches when we kill: we tear your souls apart (cookie for reference) and use them to reshape flesh and bones as we see fit.
Because a nuker necro does more spike damage than the average zerker warrior and inflicts conditions + corrupt boons: in dungeons (and PvE), bosses don’t simply melt.
They sublimate.

Because, even with a dagger, necro can stay in melee, (ab)using death shroud to tank, cleaning at the same time a room of mobs.
Because jet black/iron grey armor, with skull and bones everywhere, is pretty kitten.

nolop.8095:

Necros have an attrition playstyle, they slow down and burden every group they’re in.

He’s right – necros don’t typically do amazing burst damage. (snicker)

We’re not designed to kill measly 15k HP Players…

…We’re designed to obliterate 390k HP GODS.

(power Necros do just fine in dungeons, thank you very much, but its true, mindless minions are pretty mindless when working indoors )

zero.5316:

Im more interesting on how well necros do dungeons, how well can you support your team… not so interested in a selfish class :x

You dont want to role a necro then. Necro’s are the most selfish class in the game for dungeons. No unique utility, no buff contributions, poor vuln stacking, high cooldown condi removal. Theres really nothing special about them. And they have to be carried hard with buffs to be good.

Don’t listen to the RP guys… You dont want to roll necro, judging by what you wrote in the OP. Apart from being a scholar class necro is THE opposite of everything you’re looking for in the class.
It’s the most selfish class, it’s unwelcome in dungeons (well, in minmax groups that is), MM sucks for anything but open world, the one place where necros shine is pvp.

Are we talking about the same class? Wells can be traited to give protection to everyone in them. Well of darkness is a bloody fortress for your allies, dropped into melee (pulsing blind). Its probably the best vulnerability stacker in the game with axe 1/focus 4/well of suffering. Well of Blood is an AoE heal. You provide fields like crazy. Staff 2 is an AoE regen, staff 4 is a blast finisher. Focus 4 bounces regen allies and focus 5 strips boons quite nicely.

You can ignore their party synergy, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have it when they choose to.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNAndWlQaq0GqRZDg9EgUBsnew94iD9I3adG-jwCBYNERjEEYUEQUCChpPFRjtEMIVRRrOKs6FY6VER1+EFRrGA-e

If you have played other classes you would know exactly why those things arent that great. They can be done better by less selfish classes. Im sorry but lieing to the guy about the class is not the way to go. Yes necro is fun, but its selfish and not what hes looking for.

Also vuln stacking from necro is only good on single target trash mobs. On bosses its awful due to unshakeable.

@OP: play some classes to level 2 and join the pvp lobby and try some of the suggested builds. It’s the fastest way to figure out whose posts on the forum you can skip and which are worth reading. Most of the people in this game are not exactly ‘taking the scientific / fact-based approach’ to put it REALLY REALLY nicely.

I’ve played all the classes, thanks. There is a LOT of flexibility with 70 trait points to spend, and its a spectrum, with each class gravitating to different points in the range. Is selfless your only goal? Guardian kinda dominates the field, but if you want to offer defensive & offensive synergy with a dungeon group while still pushing respectable damage, Necros have something to say. In particular, necro heals are direct heals, NOT Regen. Consider that most other classes do their group healing and self healing via Regen. A direct heal like Well of Blood or a life steals from comboing through a dark field actually works simultaneously with Regen rather than sequentially (the way two regen strategies would). They may not glow or be touchy feely as some of the other classes, but they can absolutely turn the tide when an attack goes off the rails. Decisively. You call it “not that great.” I call it “Drop a well of Darkness into that clusterfrack, and suddenly incoming damage STOPS for 6 seconds while my side picks up their teeth and sorts themselves out.”

Agree with bawi. You are overrating the necros utility way too much. And failing to notice there are far better options on other classes.

With all due respect to Bawi and Spoj, I think the opinion necro=selfish is pretty biased and a little too widespread. I have a necro as second main and I’ve done lotsa dungeons farming with it, so at least hear me out…
1) FACT: The majority of the necros out there are pet masters. Is pet master a selfish build for a necro? Yes and without a doubt. They are so widespread because pet masters builds are dumb proof and, IMO, quite boring: they shine in exploration and farming but don’t give a kitten about team. Why should they? Minion master Necros make their own team, quite literally. In dungeon they are as useful as a spamming autoattack bearpet ranger, and probably deserve the same spite.

2) Are pet masters builds the only option for a necro? NO. Nike pointed to a supportive role for a necro: a necro who heal, and I would like to add my own, a powernecro build without pets (I use only Flesh Golem and only because it has a short CD and synergize very well when stacking: if the mobs, or the bosses are packed against a wall, they receive damage for all the duration of Charge, from 5k to 20k, depending on situation and defenses).
Basically I roll an initiator nuker, with amazing DPS spike: with the build I’m using I do 30k damage every 35 seconds more o less, and only with utility skills. Is it little or is it lot? But wait, I can tank too, thank to death shroud and in doing so, continuing to do damage while tanking. And this is only the beginning: while attacking in DS, I stack might thanks to Reaper’s Might and I can capitalize on it the moment I exit DS to begin the cycle again and again, to dish out unholy level of damage.
So you have a nuker who does a little less damage than an average zerker warrior, but is more durable. And after the first DS, it becomes stronger. A necro who carry its own weight in the fight, who stands in the front line with warriors and guardians, and is more than capable than taking hits for the team.
And this is without the crowd control and the condition damage, the poison, weakness, bleeding and blinding, it comes with the package, which I admit works less well against bosses (blinding, binding and weakness excluded)

3) Where does a powernecro help his team, other than being a tanker and a heavy hitter?
I like to think at my necro as the other side of the coin where the head is memser. Where the mesmer is better suited in buffing and assisting his team, the necro weaken and debuff the enemy, not only with condition but corrupting his boons, opposite of the mesmer who steal or copy them.
Corruption is an amazing ability, one can turn the tide in seconds: every enemy, boss (T-B34RC3 in CoE for instance, Ginva in HotW or the Legendary Searing Effigy in CoF ) who loves to buff himself will crumble to dust while his boons become weakness and such.
One other way to use it is a condition clenear: Well of power+ Plague signet and Consume Condition will keep you and your team alive, fit and powerful against every kitten who dare to use conditions on you and your team. The only thing a powernecro doesn’t have? Cleave. Necros do amazing AoE damage, but don’t have the cleave in melee that others classes have, but it’s hardly a fault.

4) Are powernecros hard to grasp? Harder than most, for sure, and maybe this is the reason why we see so few good necros around. They require timing to use and traning (you’re going to tank with a light armored class and in the beginning, your brain will scream to pull out automatically).
But are necros selfish? Only if you use them with selfish build, as every zerk warr can be, as every guardian and ele and mes. But this isn’t the way necros should be or have to be.
Are there better class out there? It’s like to compare ice cream and chips: necros are necros and what they do is different from other classes, while being more than an asset to the team.

5) Are Necros fun to use?
A walking death machine, a powerhouse, a dreaded knight in the face of the enemy, a caring supporter and a kitten looking class with skull and bones everywhere… sounds pretty kitten right to me.
Or at least OP, so was for me.

do not buy the lie that necros are the " attrition " class of the game . they are the road block class instead . if you want attrition go guardian or warrior . now as for why necros are worthy of being selected ? they do plenty of damage over time that is aoe based . , they have minions to fight for them , they got a few good snares to use in fights , and movement means everything until someone is spamming stability . but movement is everything ! as for other reasons ? they can remove conditions , they can consume conditions . and they have very interesting support in wells . granted it’s not the best but its okay .

Mander.6924:

4) Are powernecros hard to grasp? Harder than most, for sure, and maybe this is the reason why we see so few good necros around. They require timing to use and traning (you’re going to tank with a light armored class and in the beginning, your brain will scream to pull out automatically).
But are necros selfish? Only if you use them with selfish build, as every zerk warr can be, as every guardian and ele and mes. But this isn’t the way necros should be or have to be.
Are there better class out there? It’s like to compare ice cream and chips: necros are necros and what they do is different from other classes, while being more than an asset to the team.

Necros are selfish in that they provide no group buffs or support other than condition debuffs, some high cooldown condition cleanse and high cooldown dark fields. Of which only dark fields are good and unique to the class. The debuffs are mostly useless in pve. The condition cleansing can be done better with lower cooldowns and less sacrifices from pretty much all classes.

The zerker builds for the classes you mentioned arent selfish at all. They all provide something useful to the group without sacrificing dps. Warrior has the best group buffs in the game with banners, empower allies and boons. Guardian has very good dps along with lots of defensive utility. Mesmer has an incredible range of utility. Ele has the highest damage in the game and can provide might, fury and vuln for the entire group.

You mentioned about corrupting boons on bosses. Thats pointless seeing as most of those bosses cleanse aswell so you may aswell just strip the boons which a mesmer can do more effectively. Not to mention those bosses reapply boons constantly so you need sustained boon removal which necro doesnt have. Mesmer does though.

Like i said the only useful thing necro has is dark fields. But the issue with them is you often dont want them because you dont want to be overwriting fire fields for might stacks. Why use dark fields for blinds when you can use ele LH to blast a fire field for aoe might and blind at the same time.

Necros would have great condition clearing capabilities if Putrid Mark was working properly.

It’s not that necros are bad at support at all (they’re actually very strong support), but what necros are good at (condition and boon play) really isn’t needed in dungeons. Think about it, other than Aetherblades, how many times do you see a dungeon enemy that has more than two boons and/or applies more than one condition (or even applies that boon/condition with any notable frequency)? Not very often at all.

HOWEVER!!! If Aetherblade Retreat, Twilight Arbor, and Scarlet’s Funhouse are anything to go by, necro support will be coming much more in demand in the future.

No it wont. Other classes have better condition and boon support…

spoj.9672:

No it wont. Other classes have better condition and boon support…

Only in the aspect of “applying boons, removing conditions”. Necros dominate in the other end (remove boons, apply conditions), which is what is becoming more important. Removing those 25 stacks of Might (and Fury, and Stability) on an Aetherblade is far more important than applying three stacks your your team. Necros take that a bit further and convert them to conditions instead.

Necros are selfish in that they provide no group buffs or support other than condition debuffs, some high cooldown condition cleanse and high cooldown dark fields. Of which only dark fields are good and unique to the class. The debuffs are mostly useless in pve. The condition cleansing can be done better with lower cooldowns and less sacrifices from pretty much all classes.

No group buff or support with condition removals+ raw damage? Considering the unholy devastation conditions make to teams when bosses inflicts it, I beg to disagree: I’ve seen enough teams wipe by poison or bleeding, to know how useful a condition removal, or better yet, a converting condition well, can be (which I think is a necro unique ability).

The zerker builds for the classes you mentioned arent selfish at all. They all provide something useful to the group without sacrificing dps. Warrior has the best group buffs in the game with banners, empower allies and boons. Guardian has very good dps along with lots of defensive utility. Mesmer has an incredible range of utility. Ele has the highest damage in the game and can provide might, fury and vuln for the entire group.

True at 66%: as every classes, warr provide boons to the team only when they aren’t playing selfish, which is the point I was trying to do. A warrior who doesn’t use banners opting for signet is a selfish warriors. Same for necros.
And as for other classes, necros don’t have to sacrifice DPS to be helpful: well of corruption+ well of suffering+ well of power and you have support, damage and condition control in a solid package.

You mentioned about corrupting boons on bosses. Thats pointless seeing as most of those bosses cleanse aswell so you may aswell just strip the boons which a mesmer can do more effectively. Not to mention those bosses reapply boons constantly so you need sustained boon removal which necro doesnt have. Mesmer does though.

Except you are forgetting to say that wells pulse, so after casting, they damage and corrupt for 6/10 seconds, not once. More than enough to turn the tide in a battle while stacking, giving room to breath to your team or to inflict and/or help dealing a DPS rush (nuker or endfight, pick one or both).
And necros wells have a 30/35 seconds cooldown, while warriors banners have 120 cd or 240 for battle standard. You could argue banners give a sustained boons for 90 secs and I could rebuttal wells contribute with raw damage more often, in which case we could agree to disagree or accept that they can coexist wonderfully in teamwork…

Like i said the only useful thing necro has is dark fields. But the issue with them is you often dont want them because you dont want to be overwriting fire fields for might stacks. Why use dark fields for blinds when you can use ele LH to blast a fire field for aoe might and blind at the same time.

Blindness, or to be more precise, well of darkness, isn’t the only possible choice: as things go I don’t use it at all, bringing blindness in battle with dagger offhand.
So I can blast an area with AoE and blind at the same time, and again tanking, a wonderful thing that only few eles can do. To make another metaphor: necros are more guardians than warriors, as eles are more warriors than guardians.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

spoj.9672:

No it wont. Other classes have better condition and boon support…

Only in the aspect of “applying boons, removing conditions”. Necros dominate in the other end (remove boons, apply conditions), which is what is becoming more important. Removing those 25 stacks of Might (and Fury, and Stability) on an Aetherblade is far more important than applying three stacks your your team. Necros take that a bit further and convert them to conditions instead.

Mesmer boon strip is spammable. Necro boon corrupt is high cooldown. I think its pretty obvious that if boon removal is needed mesmer will be taken. And necro will be the unwanted class like it always has been. You can argue that they are slightly better off, but its still the bottom tier class and that wont change until some drastic changes are made to the class or game mechanics as a whole.

Mander.6924:

No group buff or support with condition removals+ raw damage? Considering the unholy devastation conditions make to teams when bosses inflicts it, I beg to disagree: I’ve seen enough teams wipe by poison or bleeding, to know how useful a condition removal, or better yet, a converting condition well, can be (which I think is a necro unique ability).

Did you even read what i posted? Other classes do it better and with much lower cooldowns. Converting conditions to boons is nice yes. But its certainly not needed and in most cases makes no difference.

True at 66%: as every classes, warr provide boons to the team only when they aren’t playing selfish, which is the point I was trying to do. A warrior who doesn’t use banners opting for signet is a selfish warriors. Same for necros.
And as for other classes, necros don’t have to sacrifice DPS to be helpful: well of corruption+ well of suffering+ well of power and you have support, damage and condition control in a solid package.

Well true, they dont have to sacrifice much to take those wells. But wasting a utility slot with a stupidly high cooldown ability that is replaceable by someone else in the group with a better utility is kind of meh… My build always has WoS and signet of spite because without them my dps would be much lower. I have one free slot for utility and thats all im willing to sacrifice in most situations.

Except you are forgetting to say that wells pulse, so after casting, they damage and corrupt for 6/10 seconds, not once. More than enough to turn the tide in a battle while stacking, giving room to breath to your team or to inflict and/or help dealing a DPS rush (nuker or endfight, pick one or both).
And necros wells have a 30/35 seconds cooldown, while warriors banners have 120 cd or 240 for battle standard. You could argue banners give a sustained boons for 90 secs and I could rebuttal wells contribute with raw damage more often, in which case we could agree to disagree or accept that they can coexist wonderfully in teamwork…

Comparing wells with banners is a really poor idea. Banners have very little downtime compared to cooldown and the downtime they have is usually while you are running to the next boss/fight. Wells however last 6 seconds at the start of a fight. They can only be used once for trash and for bosses 1-3 times max because of their cooldowns. Pulsing doesnt make it good, its still high cooldown and not sustained. A mesmer can just auto attack with sword, create sword clones which do the same and summon phantasmal disenchanters. That results in permanent sustained boon removal. Necro cant compete with that. Plus mesmers have null field which is kind of like WoP + WoC combined but with a lower cooldown and longer duration.

Blindness, or to be more precise, well of darkness, isn’t the only possible choice: as things go I don’t use it at all, bringing blindness in battle with dagger offhand.
So I can blast an area with AoE and blind at the same time, and again tanking, a wonderful thing that only few eles can do. To make another metaphor: necros are more guardians than warriors, as eles are more warriors than guardians.

Not really sure what your trying to say here. But like ive said. Overwriting fire fields just for aoe blinds is a bad idea when you can get aoe blinds without ruining your aoe might combos. Also thief has black power which is a spammable smoke field that provides blinds for 4 seconds. It pulses twice as fast as wells aswell. Necro blinds are good but they are easily replaced by classes with better ways of applying blind.

nolop.8095:

It’s so funny how there are always people blindly defending their profession against logic and reason as if it was an personal insult if someone states simple facts on the professions shortcomings.

- grabs popcorn -

Please continue.

I know. Baffles me how people can be so defensive. There is nothing wrong with admitting your favourite class is bad. My main is a necro but im not so blindly in love with the class that i will ignore its faults. I love playing my necro but I know its selfish and if I want to be helpful to a group I will take another class.

Sorry If I have to cut some quotes, but the debate is getting so interesting that the allowed lenght isn’t enough anymore…

“Converting conditions to boons is nice yes. But its certainly not needed and in most cases makes no difference.”
Debatable: are boons in general needed to win a fight? No. We could win a battle by attrition. Why we abuse them? Because it makes a battle 100 times faster and enjoyable. With necros wells, the timing is crucial: banners can be deployed anytime, while converting condition or corrupting boons wells not. And that’s one of the reasons why I think a good necro is a little harder to master: you need to learn enemy patterns.
“Makes no difference”? Again I disagree, based on experience, because wells do save teammates after bosses spam conditions on them, especially poison and bleeding.

Well true, they dont have to sacrifice much to take those wells. But wasting a utility slot with a stupidly high cooldown ability that is replaceable by someone else in the group with a better utility is kind of meh… My build always has WoS and signet of spite because without them my dps would be much lower. I have one free slot for utility and thats all im willing to sacrifice in most situations.

Different build maybe or different playstyle: I roll usually with WoS, WoC, signet of locust/ WoP. I can’t say I tried every combination and build with necro, but what I found with some luck and experimentation give me the same satisfaction of my GS zerk warr: and from experience, I can say there are some dungeons and bosses, where my Necro outperform my Warr (CoE for instance, but finding a PuG team welcoming a powernecro is hard and leave a bitter taste, but this is another story).

Comparing wells with banners is a really poor idea. Banners have very little downtime compared to cooldown and the downtime they have is usually while you are running to the next boss/fight. Wells however last 6 seconds at the start of a fight. They can only be used once for trash and for bosses 1-3 times max because of their cooldowns. Pulsing doesnt make it good, its still high cooldown and not sustained. A mesmer can just auto attack with sword, create sword clones which do the same and summon phantasmal disenchanters. That results in permanent sustained boon removal. Necro cant compete with that. Plus mesmers have null field which is kind of like WoP + WoC combined but with a lower cooldown and longer duration.

I could say the same about comparing necro and mes: can a mes tank as much as a necro? Or do the same AoE damage?
Am I trying to say necro>mesmer? No, of course not. But, I would like to point out how different they are, enough that saying mesmer> necro is really a poor idea too.
Necros have their own strenght, as all the classes, but I don’t think, from experience, that they are the inefficent class or the worst one around.
Are they perfect? No. They don’t have cleave, for instance. But surely they aren’t weak, selfish or inefficent. And surely as hell they aren’t per se less efficent for teamplay than other classes.
It’s mostly the player that makes the difference with builds and game. Not the class.

@Mander.6924

How is a power necro better for coe than a warrior? i mean cleave is great to have in there for crystals or the console thingy etc.

Any tips is welcome but i always swap to my warrior for well everything now :< same with other necro in guild that swap to mesmer / warrior or guardian.

They are inefficent and if you think tanking is an important part of pve then you really need to learn more about the game your playing. They arent taken in any speed records or fast groups because they have nothing worth taking. An underwater dungeon might change that but thats about the only place necro excels.

Mander.6924 > I’ve met 2 players in about 500 dungeons that play MM. (That weren’t using MM to level)

zero.5316 > You should play a necro, because it’s fun. The manskirts are pretty ;-)

The necro sadly is a extremely selfish class:
Buff Wise- Short bursts of protection, regen that overwrites stronger vers from others, vuln slower than other class’s.
CC Wise- Chill & Fear that is nullified by most the scary mobs being immune.

We are nice with condi cleanse that throws them back to the mob, but, Putrid Mark is broken, and our other spells got nurfed.

The big thing I find is, not being able to res others while in DS or Litch/Plauge. (Unless you exploit pressing it at exactly the same time as you press the res) Meaning, if someone downs near you, lots of the time, you have to give up your defense to stand somewhere dangerous (Huge change your going to die doing it) or just leave them to bleed out.

The other huge issue I find, is attrition. Were the only class not to have Vigor or any endurance regen, or any block/invul or a way to avoid ‘1 shot kill’ mechanics after around 30seconds into a boss fight. We also suffer hugely from getting CC’ed. Because any defense we have is ‘aggressive’, meaning you have to be attacking to get any defense.

Minions are terrible at high level. The boost to minion life in the patch might help somewhat, but still not going to stop them standing in fire/getting 1shot before they do any damage. Were also hoping the patch fix’s our blood magic line, tho it’s looking to still be 0.01% to 0.1% our max life per second, only healing our self, on easy fights. (With a boost to burst healing everyone but yourself)

We do have a ‘interesting’ support. Which is ‘bursts’. But not very useful in the way the challenges are set up in PvE.

Oh the other thing, what we excel at now, is condi, or condi/power hybrid. With the objects don’t take condi, and the condi cap issues. It’s not so good for PvE.

I do highly love my necro, I’ve tried to have it as my main since beta. I can highly recommend it for the fun to play value. But for a dungeon, I’d take my guard unless I know we have a good support & a sexy group of friends who could do it without a wipe without me even being there.

wiazabi.2549:

@Mander.6924

How is a power necro better for coe than a warrior? i mean cleave is great to have in there for crystals or the console thingy etc.

Any tips is welcome but i always swap to my warrior for well everything now :< same with other necro in guild that swap to mesmer / warrior or guardian.

I don’t know what build you’re using, so your experience may be different than mine.
Anyway I’m more than happy to share: the build I’m using? It works best when the entire team stacks and gangs up, which is practically how you fight all CoE, from mobs to bosses.
After the first wp, which I hope doesn’t need an explanation, you will face the first fight with Alpha: fear and or charge with flesh golem will put him in the corner, if aimed correctly (a safeguard if you don’t have any other measure to put him there).
After that, Well of Power will change for 6 seconds every burning Alpha gives in Aegis and every bleeding in Vigor, which are good for dodging Alpha and maul him in the next age. One cast of Well of Suffering+ Well of Corruption (for the raw damage) is all you need to win the fight with a good team. If DPS is lacking, you can use dodge twice and switch to DS the third time to stay in the fight, and keep hitting him to death.
Debatable, but I think that a supply of vigor + raw damage (30k combo) here works a little better than a banner. I’ve experienced that with a competent team you can melt Alpha faster with 3 warr+1 powernecro, than with 4 warr. Add a mes to the team (for time warp) and Alpha sublimate in thin air.
The team doesn’t stack or Alpha moves? Use dark pact (dagger 3) to chain him to the ground and give time to your team to stack on him again, or chain him beforhand to be sure, your choice.
A similar scheme apply almost for every next fight with Alpha, but with an advantage: messing the stack is harder in the 2nd and 3rd fight, so you can employ staff marks to nuke him and Flesh Golems to its full potential, inflicting all the damage Charge can give on a single target (the point is Charge inflict damage until Flesh Golem is on the target, but if Alpha is with its back on the wall, Flesh Golem can’t run past him and will inflict damage for all charge duration, keeping him knocked down).
In 2nd and 3rd fight, prepare marks with staff (not 5, that gives fear), switch to your main weapons (I use twin daggers, but dagger+focus is viable too) and deploy wells. DS, stack as much might you can with Reaper’s Might, switch back to normal and you should have Wells ready to be deployed again.
Raw damage, control condition, transmute condition, weakness, blind and stun in one single package. It does give boon with well of power, and you can stay in fight… enough?

Against T-B34RC3 well of corruption is very nice, because the boss strenght becomes its worst weakness: leave the turrets on, and while they pump him full of boons, you can laugh at him while conditions spawn on him like mushrooms (and because the turrets give boons on timed intervals, you can intercept them with timing).
If you have to hack, the situation is a little worse, but a very careful use of wells, dagger and golem charge can give you the room to defend console, while the team hack (done only once with 1-4. Not easy, but it can be done).

After that, you will have Bjarl in p1: well of power will rid of that pesky bleeding on you and your squad, while the team pummel him, and Golem charge will keep him pinned a little more.

In P2 you’ve the Evolved Husk: well of suffering will prune the bushes away, while you divert bots on him. Meaning you’re the owner of your corner, and you don’t need help that can be spared on your squad. Send Golem to charge the Husk to keep him occupied. Granted, it’s a short time measure, but it’s a good way to start and finish the fight.

In P3 you’ve the champion destroyer, which is very similar to Alpha, with the advantage that he doesn’t move: deploy wells and you can sustain damage even while dodging.

In the end, the little DPS shortage of swapping one necro for one warr, in CoE at least, and based on my experience, is more than paid back by the sheer control of status effect and stun you can grant to your team, helping them to win faster and dishing out pain at the same time.
All of this has been done always with PUGs, not a single organized team, with many setup… how many runs? Enough to buy almost all the weapons of my 5 characters with CoE tokens + 1 completed armor. Let’s just say enough.
Hope to be of help.

spoj.9672:

They are inefficent and if you think tanking is an important part of pve then you really need to learn more about the game your playing. They arent taken in any speed records or fast groups because they have nothing worth taking. An underwater dungeon might change that but thats about the only place necro excels.

“The L2P” arguments doesn’t offer a thing to this discussion: I’m trying to explain my reasons, not to attack your preferences.
Your first thesis was that necros are selfish, because they don’t contribute to teamplay. Nike first, me second, described 2 ways where necros contribute in a positive way to teamplay.
Your rebuttal was other classes can do better: I’m trying to explain why and where I don’t think this and to describe a situation where I experienced that necros do better for teamplay. Still not convinced? Meh, no problem… I think we can still enjoy necros without chopping our hands off.

Correction. You tried to explain why you thought it wasnt the case. Doesnt mean you are right. If necros were better in certain situations they would be picked by the best guilds for records and such.

Power necro is ok in coe but its not better than a warrior unless all buffs are already accounted for. Also i facepalmed when you said use golem charge to push alpha into the wall. Charge is a knockdown and wont do that. Fear does work but if alpha has chill from the risen it wont go far enough. Better to let the mesmer/guard do the pull.

You didnt provide anything special in your example of how to run necro in coe. All things could of been done by another class or not done at all. And you could of done the important things you mentioned with dps utilities and weapons. The one thing that you pointed out that I agree with is good is well of corruption on the golem. But again its not needed. A mesmer more than covers the boons permanently and WoC only provides 6 seconds of boon clear combat. With that uptime in a pug it will barely scratch his hp. Best way to do husk is to get a mesmer to solo it, its much faster, no need to aoe the bushes when you can hit them about 3 times with dagger and they are gone.

The only place having a necro is really good is on jade maw. Using dark fields + projectile finishers to kill maw faster.

Bawi.9541:

MM sucks for anything but open world,

Dead wrong.

I played MM in sPvP and I did fine.

I know that it sounds so cliche, but I seriously believe that everyone should play the profession that enjoys to play. Each profession has one or two area that it really shines, but it always come down to personal preference, play style and taste, I guess.

I love necros since I made my very first character in GW1 as a necro, and I’m loving the hell out of them in GW2. I would even say that its among the classes that has the most versatility in this game so you can go for many directions once you reached level 80, and its easy to level up solo with the help of minions.

Personally I’m running a condimancer now on my main, but looking forward to the upcoming update to experiment a bit more, but it still comes down to sheer enjoyment. Play it, if you like it, but if you still want a reason, I would simply say: Epidemic. It’s just a very fun skill to play with, possibly my favourite utility skill in the game, and I cannot stop loving it. :P

Necros definately deserve more love, they are awesome!

spoj.9672:

Correction. You tried to explain why you thought it wasnt the case. Doesnt mean you are right. If necros were better in certain situations they would be picked by the best guilds for records and such.

Power necro is ok in coe but its not better than a warrior unless all buffs are already accounted for. Also i facepalmed when you said use golem charge to push alpha into the wall. Charge is a knockdown and wont do that. Fear does work but if alpha has chill from the risen it wont go far enough. Better to let the mesmer/guard do the pull.

You didnt provide anything special in your example of how to run necro in coe. All things could of been done by another class or not done at all. And you could of done the important things you mentioned with dps utilities and weapons. The one thing that you pointed out that I agree with is good is well of corruption on the golem. But again its not needed. A mesmer more than covers the boons permanently and WoC only provides 6 seconds of boon clear combat. With that uptime in a pug it will barely scratch his hp. Best way to do husk is to get a mesmer to solo it, its much faster, no need to aoe the bushes when you can hit them about 3 times with dagger and they are gone.

Well… the reality of one persone is always chained to the experience he or she underwent. This is semantics to say: I can only speak about what I’ve experienced, just like you do.
With PuG, in CoE, I know that my powernecro outperform my zerkwarrior, and this isn’t a thesis, or a thought, but a fact, based on all the runs I’ve done in CoE.
Can this apply to every dungeon, or every teams, or even every runs of CoE with necros? Certanly not and I’m not saying this. What I’m saying is: I can contribute in a more positive way in CoE as a necro than a warr, and because I’m not cheating this can be done by others necros too.
Which is somewhere in the middle ground between “Necros Rulez” and “Necro are selfish”.

Before continuing anyway, ty for reading all my post on my necro in CoE.

The fact you facepalmed at the fist Alpha made my smile, because I remebered every PuGs with a ranger or a mesmer incable to wrap their heads around the simple fact of pushing Alpha in the kitten corner. Is fear and charge (it stuns Alpha back a little) the best way to do it? No, but it can be done and it’s a safety for every missed push at Alpha.
After enough time, It has become almost natural and from time to time, if the team slacks a little too much, I do it in autopilot.
For the AoE on bushes, using wells you can clear them without dropping the weapon to hack the bots, saving time and forces, something that can not be done by a warr, for instance.
Sure, you can solo it, but a full team can surely do it faster…

And again, mesmer and necros are different: they complete each other, so much in fact that while forming a party for CoE, I would pick 3 warr, 1 mes and a powernecro over 4 warr and a mes. The team can only benefit from it, or so I’ve experienced.

Hmmm.. thanks for the feedback everyone… I decided to make one and play around with some of the builds(power/conditons) in the Mist to see if Its really for me. You guys had strong points on yay or nay, left for me to see who I side with :P

cheers!

Welcome to the ebon folds of necromancy!

Nike.2631:

Welcome to the ebon folds of necromancy!

Since you know what your sayin bout necro`s… :P

How are they in WvW Roaming and Zerging… And most of all 1<1 fights?
I already know you can create graveyards in 1 minute… But id like to know if you can create a Player Graveyard to? Well maybe not a graveyard but 2 or more will be fine for me! Sooo how are they in WvW… Are they real Killers???

Mander.6924:

For the AoE on bushes, using wells you can clear them without dropping the weapon to hack the bots, saving time and forces, something that can not be done by a warr, for instance.
Sure, you can solo it, but a full team can surely do it faster…

And again, mesmer and necros are different: they complete each other, so much in fact that while forming a party for CoE, I would pick 3 warr, 1 mes and a powernecro over 4 warr and a mes. The team can only benefit from it, or so I’ve experienced.

It is faster on mesmer to solo. The amount of golems that aggro and get stuck on bushes when everyone is in the room makes it go so slow. Mesmer can just run circles clearing bushes with phantasms and focus pull 4 golems into the husk at the same time. Its why I always switch to mesmer for p2. Heck if im not on my mesmer for p2 I still solo it because even with a gun its faster to run circles and chain channel them into the husk than it is when people screw up the channels and aggro golems.

Your experience with necro might be better than you playing warrior but that doesnt mean necro is better than warrior for coe. Id say thats an issue of you not being a very good warrior. But the truth is that if all buffs/banners are maxed by the group then replacing one of the warriors with a necro is a better choice if you use my necro build (does more single target dps than warrior when fully buffed). An even better replacement would be an ele, engi, thief, guard or ranger though (assuming the group is consisting of your warrior stacking + 1 mesmer). If I ever want boon control I will take a mesmer because its simply better. Necro boon removal is good in pvp/wvw, not in pve due to its bursty nature.

Necro is useless in dungeons, and doing good in pvp atm. If your focus is PvE, then the only reason to play one would be for fun, but if it is harder PvE content, your group would be better of with you as another class.

spoj.9672:

Mander.6924:

For the AoE on bushes, using wells you can clear them without dropping the weapon to hack the bots, saving time and forces, something that can not be done by a warr, for instance.
Sure, you can solo it, but a full team can surely do it faster…

And again, mesmer and necros are different: they complete each other, so much in fact that while forming a party for CoE, I would pick 3 warr, 1 mes and a powernecro over 4 warr and a mes. The team can only benefit from it, or so I’ve experienced.

It is faster on mesmer to solo. The amount of golems that aggro and get stuck on bushes when everyone is in the room makes it go so slow. Mesmer can just run circles clearing bushes with phantasms and focus pull 4 golems into the husk at the same time. Its why I always switch to mesmer for p2. Heck if im not on my mesmer for p2 I still solo it because even with a gun its faster to run circles and chain channel them into the husk than it is when people screw up the channels and aggro golems.

Your experience with necro might be better than you playing warrior but that doesnt mean necro is better than warrior for coe. Id say thats an issue of you not being a very good warrior. But the truth is that if all buffs/banners are maxed by the group then replacing one of the warriors with a necro is a better choice if you use my necro build (does more single target dps than warrior when fully buffed). An even better replacement would be an ele, engi, thief, guard or ranger though (assuming the group is consisting of your warrior stacking + 1 mesmer). If I ever want boon control I will take a mesmer because its simply better. Necro boon removal is good in pvp/wvw, not in pve due to its bursty nature.

I think you’re sitting a little to close to your achievements points to concede anything other your own dogmas…
I could have said the same about you being a poor necro, but I haven’t done it: because I’ve never played with you. If this discussion has to become a badmouthing contest or a 8====D race about how better we’re, I think it’s time to stop here and to agree to disagree.

The difference is im not biased towards any class. And I play 5/8 classes in optimized groups with high levels of coordination.

But yeah it has turned into a badmouthing contest so I will stop because its pointless with how stubburn we forum posters are despite being shown logic. Ive been the same in the past.

spoj.9672:

The difference is im not biased towards any class. And I play 5/8 classes in optimized groups with high levels of coordination.

But yeah it has turned into a badmouthing contest so I will stop because its pointless with how stubburn we forum posters are despite being shown logic. Ive been the same in the past.

Your post have show nothing but a biased looking down upon the class you haven’t said a single positive thing about the class in any post you have only said what other classes do better with out actually contributing anything meaningful to say about the class at all. All you have ben doing is putting down others and insulting them and the class imho

Thats because in optimized settings there is nothing special necro provides. Is that so hard to believe? Necro is the class i have the most fun playing, doesnt mean its balanced for pve. Im not insulting the class im pointing out its faults and why its selfish. Being biased towards the class is blinding you people to try and find slight positive things about it and say its good. Ive pointed out all the “good things” the class provides can be done better with other classes so therefore necro isnt anything special.

Edit: Seeing as you want one positive thing about necro. Necros are the best class for condition pressure which unfortunately is bad in most pve content. However it is good for trash dredge in fractals due to the boons they stack.

Already mentioned this but if you know a certain trick the fastest way to kill jade maw is with a necro.