Guild Wars 2

The nerf was real on this skill man. 60 second cd makes this skill pretty much pointless. The minions die incredibly fast and I just don’t see a reason to use it over Spectral Armor which is giving a nice bit of mitigation plus life force. Am i missing something?

It still lasts longer on its damage reduction than Spectral Armor does, generally. It also stacks if you’re getting Protection from elsewhere (and if you have a support, you are). But both Spectral Armor and Rise give the same damage reduction.

The minions also block projectiles and split Rev Sword 3, etc which makes it nice for plenty of other situations where you just need the enemy to burn a skill/projectile/condi on a minion instead of yourself (in pvp anyways)

Usually, at least me, i dont choose between SA and RISE, but instead, should i take RISE even tho i already have SA. Rise is not ment to replace SA but more to supplement it if needed. I would argue between SA/well of power/spectral walk….

I will prefer SA and also pick Corrosive Poison Cloud (in sPvP).
SA grant you a breakstun that is really useful because the necro have poor access to stability, also when traited grant you 9 seconds of protection and every second you can obtain 8%LF, also when in shroud. That will grant you a good defence in different situations.
Rise! is really good but have two problems: Minions can be killed By AoE and to Active the Damage Redutions the minions need to Hit the Traget. That make it totally useless against classes like mesmer or thief (the two classes that hugely counter the necro) and delay they’re effect against full range classes like ranger, rifle warriors and other variations.
Rise! is good because can be used to trigger guardian/ranger traps or reduce the damage of the revenant skill 3, and also have a longer duration than SA. But I prefer to use SA.

They’re two totally different defensive skills that work in different ways and can be used in different situations.
If you can, chose them both.

I use CPC as defensive skill because block projectiles (for 8 sec every 20 if traited) and spam poison+weakness, reducing the enemy (team) damage and heal. When there’s a ranger, a guardian, a mesmer, a p/p thief or a rifle warrior on the enemy team that try to spam skills on your allies CPC is really good to stop they’re skills and reduce they’re damage to 0 (expecially for ranger, guardian and warrior). Also the weakness spam in a Power bades meta is really good to Hugely reduce the enemy team dps.

I think that these 3 skills are the best defensive skills of the necromancer and you can chose them without any problem and make them useful.

At the end, if you use Soul Reaping traitline you’ll obtain a Passive SA by defoult, then you can chose Rise! to obtain a different skill than the one granted by your passive traits.

Stunbreak and life force on lower CD are imho a better tradeoff.

It also looks way better.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It still lasts longer on its damage reduction than Spectral Armor does, generally. It also stacks if you’re getting Protection from elsewhere (and if you have a support, you are). But both Spectral Armor and Rise give the same damage reduction.

I mean, so say you’re right.

Obviously you’re going to take SA then since it has a lower cooldown and a stunbreak?

TheDevice.2751:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It still lasts longer on its damage reduction than Spectral Armor does, generally. It also stacks if you’re getting Protection from elsewhere (and if you have a support, you are). But both Spectral Armor and Rise give the same damage reduction.

I mean, so say you’re right.

Obviously you’re going to take SA then since it has a lower cooldown and a stunbreak?

Rise can’t be boon ripped though, while the protection from SA can be.

rise has been officially over nerfed.

TheDevice.2751:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It still lasts longer on its damage reduction than Spectral Armor does, generally. It also stacks if you’re getting Protection from elsewhere (and if you have a support, you are). But both Spectral Armor and Rise give the same damage reduction.

I mean, so say you’re right.

Obviously you’re going to take SA then since it has a lower cooldown and a stunbreak?

If you already have perma-protection from your support, Spectral Armor doesn’t do much to reduce damage, now does it?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But both Spectral Armor and Rise give the same damage reduction.

No! They have a different mechanic.

Rise!: 5 seconds on cast + additional 5 seconds everytime one of your minions hit sth. until they die through damage or after 25 seconds.

Spectral Armor: 6 seconds of protection + the additional LF gain which makes the skill strong when used in shroud. The protection stacks with the effect.

Example: If you have 20K Shroud then Spectral Armor nullifies 5K direct damage every second for 6 seconds.
(5000 × 0,5 × 0,67 = 1675 damage received + 8% (1600) LF gain = 75 damage received)

As someone already mentioned: Rise! is overnerfed. 60 seconds is way too long for the skills base effect.

But: The problem is that the skill can be buffed significantly through Death Magic traits to an universal damage reducing (base effect + Flesh of the Master), damage mitigating (more targets), condition removing (Necromantic Corruption) and debuffing (Death Nova) skill. Additionally Augury of Death lowered its cooldown up to ~25 seconds pre nerf. That was strong – a bit too strong.

TL;DR: After the nerf Spectral Armor is the better alternative in every non Death Magic build.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you already have perma-protection from your support, Spectral Armor doesn’t do much to reduce damage, now does it?

In such scenario you are regularly in a fight with multiple enemies and AOE damage which means your minions die in 2 seconds giving you a 5 second 33% dmg. reduction on a (now) 60 second cooldown. Pretty unterwhelming. Even with almost perma protection I would prefer the Spectral Armor / Shroud combo and not to forget the general Life Force generation effect.

Yes, Rise! and Protection work differently, but both still reduce the damage that you, the Necromancer, take by the exact same amount. Both are a 33% reduction.

I never once said Rise! was not overnerfed. Hell, I’m in full agreement on that one. What I did say was that if you have perma-Protection anyway from having a support, then Rise ends up doing more good for you, since the damage reduction from Spectral Armor won’t apply in that situation.

what the donkey? ppl use s armor cuz it gives 8% lf on any incoming power dmg. in team fights that = godlike. rise comes no where close, number one reason the minions have to be attacking for the dmg reduction to be active.

8% 1/second. In teamfights, that’s barely anything. In 1v1, that’s godlike.

As far as “minions have to be attacking,” I haven’t seen anyone blowing defenses against shambling horrors. It’s not much of a difficulty for at least one of the rats to hit a target every few seconds.

Should people be running Rise in PvP after the cooldown nerf? Probably not. While it works better with a support or in teamfights, it doesn’t work so much better to justify the slot on your skill bar. You Are All Weaklings is currently much more effective as a defensive skill than PvP Rise.

If you don’t have a support and/or aren’t teamfighting, then Spectral Armor is 100% better, no questions asked.

KrHome.1920:

In such scenario you are regularly in a fight with multiple enemies and AOE damage which means your minions die in 2 seconds giving you a 5 second 33% dmg. reduction on a (now) 60 second cooldown. Pretty unterwhelming. Even with almost perma protection I would prefer the Spectral Armor / Shroud combo and not to forget the general Life Force generation effect.

I’m not sure if that’s how the skill works, but a 5 second 33% damage reduction, while you already have a 33% damage reduction from Protection, is actually fairly appealing if it keeps you from going down under pressure. If it’s the difference between you dying and you not dying, it’s a good investment.

I believe rise to be good in 1vs1 or 2 because they need to be atacking not blind cced or killed. Now if it were damage spread among minions regardless of them hitting or not that would be ok. On a smaller duration ofc.

Sarrs.4831:

I’m not sure if that’s how the skill works, but a 5 second 33% damage reduction, while you already have a 33% damage reduction from Protection, is actually fairly appealing if it keeps you from going down under pressure. If it’s the difference between you dying and you not dying, it’s a good investment.

There are scenarios where the Spectral Armor and Rise! combo is strong.

The question is: Is Rise! worth its 60 second cooldown? I would say no. Spectral Walk in its current state would also be a great skill on a 30 second cooldown and boost a necromancers mobility (=survivability) a lot when used by a smart player. On a 50 second CD its mostly not worth a utility slot. Such long cooldowns should have a strong impact which neither SW nor Rise! (untraited!) have at the moment.

i use rise but not because the minions will last. i use it for putrid explosion bomb fodder.

Rise is good for triggering DH traps and negating a ton of a power Rev’s burst potential. If I am using Rise! though, I’ll usually also go YSIM! to justify taking Augury of Death.

Also, in this current meta—since all the burst/swap signals got nerfed—almost everybody is running revocation or annulment, which reduces the effectiveness of SA. That said, if there’s not a DH or Rev, I still don’t think Rise! is really worth it. Even if you’re planning on trying to mostly force 1v1’s on the point, there’s a lot more impactful skills you could take for that situation.

To me an untraited “Rise!” isn’t so useful as Spectral Armor, wich can solve the stunbreak/life force issue for the builds without soul reaping

“Rise!”
-unique damage reduction mechanic
-summon some minions wich can body block and trigger traps/marks
-long CD but with a good overall CD reduction trait
-synergise with minion’s traits

Spectral Armor
-damage reduction via boon (can be stripped/corrupted)
-life force generation
-stunbreak
-ok CD, CD reduction trait very rarely taken