Guild Wars 2

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Tears.5627:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Tears.5627:

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Pendragon.8735:

loseridoit.2756:

With addition of a new condition called torment and access to burning, some classes do not have enough condition removal to remove other important conditions like poison, bleeds, fear (terror traited). Torment, cripple and other condition are shielding more damaging conditions such as burning or stacking bleeds.

This post is very disturbing. People played so long vs underpowered Necromancers they now feel they have the right to remove every condition a Necro puts on them because they once could.

That is the whole reason Necromancers were underpowerd in the first place! Why they needed a buddy like an Engi always with them to lay cover conditions, it was not a self contained class. (And need a buddy to peel for them being focused – still a problem if they don’t kill the opponent(s) super fast).

A condition Necromancer is getting about 75% of their damage from conditions, you are not supposed to be able to remove every single one.

That would be like if a warrior’s opponent could negate 75% of their direct damage.

Now you have to actually pay attention to what is on you and carefully choose when and what to remove, instead of just spamming a removal whenever you see any condition, which used to get the job done vs Necro sadly.

I don’t quite agree… I agree that it felt a bit clunky to have nearly all your damage depending on bleeds…

But yeah… I got easily a stack of about 10 bleeds up in 5 secs… The best multiple condition cleans have a cooldown of roughly 20 seconds…

I applied poison, chill and cripple to cover my bleeds and when the right moment came, boom, doom and fear mark and my opponent was dead. The only way to counter this was burning stun breakers and all cleanses which left the opponent open for conditions again…

Conditionmancers didn’t need any more damage, they needed survibility to have a chanse of avoiding a focus of 2+ people.

Instead ANet decided to basically give us torment (= 4.5 bleed stacks, about +500dps for 10 sec) and a 50% damage increase to doom (with terror, for me that is about +1.5k damage) when close to your opponent, which is nearly in every case. Not increasing the survivability which we lack but the damage we already had.

As a necromancer player, I do not think it is balance to push all players to have a full condition cleanse build just because of one profession being in the game

Doom never had damage applied unless traited and terror has always been around and has not been buffed. It was moved to the master tier. The duration of fear from doom got an increase in duration based off of how close they are to us. Statements like these make me think people are just jumping on the necro bandwagon. I agree some of our attacks hit really hard but if people want to know how to counter the conditionmancer on their class they can send me a whisper in game or a pm on the forums. I am more than happy to help.

it’s just funny that you tell me that doom doesn’t do any damage without terror ^.^

do you guys read whole posts and follow the threads or just randomly read some highlights?

as a power necro; i can tell you that my doom does damage (not much; but it does)

edit for pic

My bad. I guess it does. That damage is so intense man. ;p
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doom
People should stop the crying over dooms stand alone damage though.

ikr? (i was just being pedantic)
- but it is useful for instantly getting someone in combat from range (meaning they cant wp whilst feared – which would particularily annoying on borderlands, if you managed to drop them)

True but most CC does the trick. I don’t know why people want fear nerfed to the ground as it is one of our only CC other than flesh golem kd and sprectral grasp and those skills are meh.

I’m not to experienced with pvp… I just like to do the daily. I can’t make arguments for or against damage, sustainability, or anything like that… because to me, if they kill me I’m mad and if I win then I feel pretty good. necro’s do kill me the most 1v1, which I thought was because of just being hard countered (although they apparently hard counter all three of my pvp classes… which could be my builds). But, to answer the question of the post, maybe necromancers are OP because they are consistently top scorers on a team? I’m not sure how accurate of a measurement that is… I can score in top 3 regularly by backdooring points… but I have started choosing my team based on how many necros I see, unless I have been playing awhile with this group of players and know who sucks and who doesn’t.

Started playing Necro in pvp 3 days ago: so far my experience is that this class is very very strong…

I main a Thief and occasionally played meditation Guardian in pvp.
R24, very casual, daily/monthly completer. I do have 100+ hours at least on each profession in PvE (and lurked on forums for each profession) so I understand each classes abit. I do mostly hotjoins as I don’t have a team and I don’t like wasting waiting time on pugging.

My necro experience in PvE was 300 hrs+, but I think so far only 5 hours in PvP. Altroll tutored me for 2 hours when I just began playing so I did learn alot, but in heat of battle I do not know the best combos, misplace some of my AOEs, prematurely use utilities, and Deathshroud/Weaponswap horribly, and I am not used to kiting as I am used to Thief/Guard’s melee style.

My result however…Topstat’d (highest score, almost a perfect K/D ratio) most hotjoins which really isn’t anything to brag about as 1. topstat doesn’t matter 2. its hotjoin BUT, I managed to do that while playing poorly…

It’s easier to 1v2 or even 1v3 and still holding my ground on a Node as a necro. Large hp pool, deathshroud, lots of fears, huge healing burst, decent single target pressure from just autoattack with scepter…I’m downing people and I don’t even know how! All I’m doing is spamming aoe condi, transfering stuff to them, converting their boons to condi, and spamming fear!! I feel like the biggest change is Spectral Wall as it is just so powerful. U can trap ppl in corners, shoo away pursuers, stand in it on a node to keep away melee bursts and drive people off nodes…just so many uses! I can imagine why people think they are overpowered in the hands of an actually good Necro!!

Interestingly I feel like Warrior is one of the tougher people to fight against (yeah, the weakest pvp class) because they don’t do alot of conditions for you to eat/transfer, they are practically immune to conditions with recent patches, and large health pool. Hammer warriors do alot of CC which Necros are kind of weak against (lack of stability)…iono, tough matchup. The warrior has to be wellplayed though.

That’s all there is to report so far from my newbie experience as OP necro!

Fenrir.5493:

Because there is no stat that reduces condition damage, with a power build you can have toughness/armor and protection, but with conditions you have nothing and they can be spammed having 10 stacks of any condition in an AoE its too much, so pretty much the class is OP for the lack of any stat that mitigates condition damage, dont try the vit argument because its not.

This is a good point.

Vitality is, on paper the counter to condition builds – which, still on paper, is something that would make sense afterall.

Reality is that even with a huge Vit stacking things don’t change much – if you’re lucky it just delay the inevitable.

And it bring up a good question – could be the right way to rebalance the conditions try to mess up with health pools, Vit bonuses numbers or maybe adding some extra mechanics to it?

In order to make the “Vitality is Condition hard counter” true.

Vitality isn’t supposed to be a hard counter its supposed to act as a buffer. Counters to condition aside from having high health is having access to condition clears and regenerative bonuses like regen and certain traits.

conditions weren’t considered op before nor was terror.

the thing is the way conditions work makes the added burning trait very strong.
the access to a spike of burning without needing a skill to add to the rotation is what makes it so powerful. having 10+ stacks of bleed with poison and burning while both being disabled by fear and having it hit hard because of terror is what makes it so strong.

before without burning it was hardly considered op, yet with the sudden addition of burning people have started complaining about terror and even consume conditions when clearly the issue is how fast the damage ramps in the 30/30/10 build

if burning was attached to a skill instead it wouldn’t ramp as fast or simply changing it to torment would allow for a slower ramp while still having the nice easy reapplication of conditions so thakittens not as weak as prepatch

Winter.4608:

Vitality isn’t supposed to be a hard counter its supposed to act as a buffer. Counters to condition aside from having high health is having access to condition clears and regenerative bonuses like regen and certain traits.

conditions weren’t considered op before nor was terror.

the thing is the way conditions work makes the added burning trait very strong.
the access to a spike of burning without needing a skill to add to the rotation is what makes it so powerful. having 10+ stacks of bleed with poison and burning while both being disabled by fear and having it hit hard because of terror is what makes it so strong.

before without burning it was hardly considered op, yet with the sudden addition of burning people have started complaining about terror and even consume conditions when clearly the issue is how fast the damage ramps in the 30/30/10 build

if burning was attached to a skill instead it wouldn’t ramp as fast or simply changing it to torment would allow for a slower ramp while still having the nice easy reapplication of conditions so thakittens not as weak as prepatch

I would not mind losing burning honestly. I like my build like it was before and I kept it where it was with the addition of DS 5. Fear is our only counter to nonstop melee to death. I got k/d by a warrior in pvp 4 times in a row and died as he had a thief partnered with him. We only have access to crap stability so CC is the way to go.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Xenon.4537:

You might as well roll a thief without stealth.

perma evasion thief?

A thief can evade all they want, but I’ve never seen a thief survive on evades alone.

burning was too much with all added other stuff and it was too hasty to put it in. current dhummfire crap is just faceroll.

other changes were pretty much “necessary” not only to condibuilds but power builds too. way too many people think necros are all conditions when very good portion of necros play full berserker glass cannons etc.

at this point i’d like to point out other condispammers are equally very strong in pvp if someone bothers to play them.

it’s just people rather go olol max dmg zerk build fyuu condi removal and then complain about dying on condis.

Xenon.4537:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Xenon.4537:

You might as well roll a thief without stealth.

perma evasion thief?

A thief can evade all they want, but I’ve never seen a thief survive on evades alone.

Watch any tournament with jumper….

Wait so let me get this straight..

A necro who gets access to burning and terror becomes OP…

and engineer with access to burning and confusion is not OP…

…
Ok seems legit..

People need to learn to adapt..

It’s not the fact that necro’s got burning..People were too used to not having to run condition removal..

Just like every class that gets a buff you are going to see more of them until people start learning how to fight them effectively..
It will take a few weeks until someone has a video up to help the people that want to whine..but please be patient..
Until then..

May I suggest that those that cant seem to wrap their head around condition removal re-roll to either

A. Guardian

or

B. Elementalist

Solori.6025:

Wait so let me get this straight..

A necro who gets access to burning and terror becomes OP…

and engineer with access to burning and confusion is not OP…

…
Ok seems legit..

People need to learn to adapt..

It’s not the fact that necro’s got burning..People were too used to not having to run condition removal..

Just like every class that gets a buff you are going to see more of them until people start learning how to fight them effectively..
It will take a few weeks until someone has a video up to help the people that want to whine..but please be patient..
Until then..

not quite that. first off engi does not have access to a cc that can hit for 1k per tick.
you have to think about timing in this case. burning is not a bad idea its more the fact that it is automatically added to a skill rotation. your not expending time or space to add a utility or use a specific weapon, its added to whatever your using….which would normally be okay…..except for the necro being able to stun a with fear that not only interrupts but also adds another rather strong tick of damage.

when you apply different damaging conditions your accelerating your damage because they each tick per second. So when you have copious bleeding ,which is very easy for the necro, along with poison, burning and fear. you have a very fast ramp in damage of which every second of fear is garrantying that your conditions take a chunk out of his life. That is not taking torment into account! which is like having a separate stack of bleeding, couple this with the damage we do with our skills and the fact that we aren’t sitting around when the opponent is feared, we are wiping the floor with his/her sorry kitten .

Dhuumfire does bring us something we needed, the ability to quickly reapply conditions that way condi clears don’t wreck us so hard as it did preepatch.

i don’t think its op, just think it needs to be tuned down a bit, but yes people should learn to adapt. I think that loosely translates to learn to play as many a thief would say.

Necros are being viewed as OP because they have FAR too much condition pressure right now. If I run into a good conditionmancer I might as well just /sit because I’m not going to be able to remove all of those conditions (and even if I try lol fear)

Troll.4237:

So what if we get a 4 second burning every ten seconds? The trait to get the burning isn’t even in the condition trait line. So it’s either I go super squishy and give up my toughness and receive 4seconds of burning every 10 seconds ( god kitten that a lot of burning!) or I can stick with the conditions I have and keep my toughness.

If you trait for stats you are a terribad player. Just saying…

Necro is finally viable as a profession.
Time to take that into account while playing your thief/mesmer/guardian/ranger/ele/engie,warrior now..

So.. sorry you probably have to sacrifice an utility slot now to cleanse.
As necros traited that way from the start to try to survive a 1v1.
No more 3-4 keystrokes to kill.
You might actually have to think about your attack (or even your defense) now.

Necro still isn’t the most condition heavy class out there.

Xenon.4537:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Xenon.4537:

You might as well roll a thief without stealth.

perma evasion thief?

A thief can evade all they want, but I’ve never seen a thief survive on evades alone.

enjoy

Winter.4608:

Solori.6025:

Wait so let me get this straight..

A necro who gets access to burning and terror becomes OP…

and engineer with access to burning and confusion is not OP…

…
Ok seems legit..

People need to learn to adapt..

It’s not the fact that necro’s got burning..People were too used to not having to run condition removal..

Just like every class that gets a buff you are going to see more of them until people start learning how to fight them effectively..
It will take a few weeks until someone has a video up to help the people that want to whine..but please be patient..
Until then..

not quite that. first off engi does not have access to a cc that can hit for 1k per tick.
you have to think about timing in this case. burning is not a bad idea its more the fact that it is automatically added to a skill rotation. your not expending time or space to add a utility or use a specific weapon, its added to whatever your using….which would normally be okay…..except for the necro being able to stun a with fear that not only interrupts but also adds another rather strong tick of damage.

when you apply different damaging conditions your accelerating your damage because they each tick per second. So when you have copious bleeding ,which is very easy for the necro, along with poison, burning and fear. you have a very fast ramp in damage of which every second of fear is garrantying that your conditions take a chunk out of his life. That is not taking torment into account! which is like having a separate stack of bleeding, couple this with the damage we do with our skills and the fact that we aren’t sitting around when the opponent is feared, we are wiping the floor with his/her sorry kitten .

Dhuumfire does bring us something we needed, the ability to quickly reapply conditions that way condi clears don’t wreck us so hard as it did preepatch.

i don’t think its op, just think it needs to be tuned down a bit, but yes people should learn to adapt. I think that loosely translates to learn to play as many a thief would say.

Except that the engineer can also get burning on any weapon at any time also..
Minus fear we also get an evade, block, and healing field.
Where the necro has a good initial fear burst, a well timed stability and condition cleanse renders that entire combo moot…then its a who has more cc removal game (hint hint its not the necro)
This fear does damage trait has been THE SAME since launch.. what all of a sudden changed with this trait that makes it a problem?

Solori.6025:

Except that the engineer can also get burning on any weapon at any time also..
Minus fear we also get an evade, block, and healing field.
Where the necro has a good initial fear burst, a well timed stability and condition cleanse renders that entire combo moot…then its a who has more cc removal game (hint hint its not the necro)
This fear does damage trait has been THE SAME since launch.. what all of a sudden changed with this trait that makes it a problem?

Fear isn’t what makes it a problem, and as for what the engineer can do, it cant stack bleeds as high as the necromancer by default, but they do have excellent capability at reapplying conditions. Before patch that was the main reason engineers were powerful with a condition build. Simply removing them didn’t really hurt the engineers damage since he would just apply all of it back up in seconds.

this was something necro lacked before patch since our main condition damage was bleeding poison and occasional fear. We had to really stack the bleeds which unfortunately takes time unlike the engineer applying bleed poison burning and confusion. As for confusion its not quite what it was.

Now post patch we reapply the conditions faster with the trait and have access to more bleeding than the engineer, poison, burning, torment which is like another stack of bleeding and the occasional fear that hits hard.

Fear is not the problem like you said it hasn’t changed, what did change was how quickly we apply conditions and our access to burning and torment.

if we lost burning i wouldn’t really mind but i would love to see us be able to stack torment higher than 3 stacks. It would slow the necro’s ability to damage ramp so high in a condition build without us losing how fast we can apply the conditions that way when someone cleanses our condis, we aren’t back to square one and screwed.

its not a huge imbalance, its just blown out of proportion, but the imbalance is still present. I main a necro and engineer the last thing i want is for fear to get nerfed when its not the problem and hasn’t been for so long before that.

Most of the people I see getting facerolled by the new influx of necros are ones who pop their condi removal at the first sign of 3 bleeds. I rarely see anyone wait until they have a significant amount of condis on them before using removal. Perhaps if people were smarter about skill usage and not “OMGWTFMUSTREMOVEONEBLEED” they’d find more success against necros, eh?

I’ve been playing Necro’s since pre-launch and have seen the ups and downs of our profession, mainly downs. Before last patch Necro’s was far and few in between, because we had NO mobility (which was a lot of peoples complaint), no survivability. And we would constantly just got face rolled. New players would get frustrated and just pick another profession claiming we are broken. People got use to that fact about us and those of us that stuck around with the profession had to adapt with these limited faults. Now we get some love which makes us more viable in the field and people are like WTF!? That’s not suppose to happen, I’m suppose to face roll you!

After patch a buddy of mine would ask me how do I like my new OP Necro. And every time we’d run together he’d say I was OP, OP this OP that. Eventually after a few days he said it best. “I don’t really think that Necro’s are OP. It’s just you would hardly ever see any of them and now there everywhere. And no one really knows how to fight one.”

I’m sorry to those that think that we are OP! But as a Necro form the very start I had to learn to survive stuns, 100b, 1 shot backstab. shatter mesmer, stealth, D/D ele’s, condi ranger, condi engi’s and bunker gaurdians. And believe me, I’ve been faced rolled many times by all of these different builds. I’ve had to learn to adapt and change my build around. And now so does everyone else with the new Necro. Everyone wants to complain about the new Fear/burning combo, but because fear is consider a stun and a condi. You can easily cleanse or stun break out of it. They’ve also recently “fix” Sigil of paralyzation to not work with fear, so everyone out there still has Runes of Melandru and any other that effect stun reduction duration against our fear. Bottom line is, I’m just saying that people need to learn how to face a Necro now. And once they do, they’ll realize hey their still a little squishy in the end.

Are Necros OP…the answer depends on perspective.

If you run up against a Necro now and try the same old tricks….surprise….you might even think they are OP.

If you run up against a Necro now and have thought about their changes and adapted your play….a much more even contest.

All the whiners about Necros being OP are lazy players who don’t want to adapt and want to continue to own Necros like before. Times have changed a little. It is more about their reluctance to change and adapt than the Necro being absolutely OP.

People aren’t accustomed to long fights.

To beat a Necro you have to run us out of 2 health bars while taking substantial condition damage. This is going to involve ducking out of the fight to cleanse several times. The good news is that Necro has pretty awful mobility. The bad news is that our Condi Damage output is incredibly high, and if you get hit by fears at the wrong time you lose.

I play a Necro in WvW a good bit, but I play my staff Ele more. I got schooled by Necros in WvW before I figured out that I was taking loads of damage from Spectral Wall + Fear Damage, because I was a dummy and ran into it multiple times. Also, I was failing to run away from Necros because I would assume I had more time to hold out for cleansing…then get triple feared and drop dead.

Now, I range them. If I can stay close to max range all they can do is attempt to drop marks (which are easily dodged) and throw a bad auto-attack. They run out of LF eventually, and can’t really get away unless they flee to a keep or their group mates. Necros are incredibly vulnerable to ranged damage now. Closing to melee is crazy, since I’ll just be loaded with condis and feared to death.

If I played a Warrior vs a Necro I’d probably just swap to Rifle and kite him. As long as I can dodge the Dark Path and most of the marks there’s not a lot Necros can do about it.

That wasn’t true pre-patch. Pre-patch you could melee a Necro down faster than the conditions could kill you. Now you can’t. That’s not OP at all. It’s just different.

TL-DR: Necros are only a threat inside of Scepter range. The profession has extremely low damage output at long range and bad mobility. Kite to win.

PinCushion.7390:

People aren’t accustomed to long fights.

To beat a Necro you have to run us out of 2 health bars while taking substantial condition damage. This is going to involve ducking out of the fight to cleanse several times. The good news is that Necro has pretty awful mobility. The bad news is that our Condi Damage output is incredibly high, and if you get hit by fears at the wrong time you lose.

I play a Necro in WvW a good bit, but I play my staff Ele more. I got schooled by Necros in WvW before I figured out that I was taking loads of damage from Spectral Wall + Fear Damage, because I was a dummy and ran into it multiple times. Also, I was failing to run away from Necros because I would assume I had more time to hold out for cleansing…then get triple feared and drop dead.

Now, I range them. If I can stay close to max range all they can do is attempt to drop marks (which are easily dodged) and throw a bad auto-attack. They run out of LF eventually, and can’t really get away unless they flee to a keep or their group mates. Necros are incredibly vulnerable to ranged damage now. Closing to melee is crazy, since I’ll just be loaded with condis and feared to death.

If I played a Warrior vs a Necro I’d probably just swap to Rifle and kite him. As long as I can dodge the Dark Path and most of the marks there’s not a lot Necros can do about it.

That wasn’t true pre-patch. Pre-patch you could melee a Necro down faster than the conditions could kill you. Now you can’t. That’s not OP at all. It’s just different.

TL-DR: Necros are only a threat inside of Scepter range. The profession has extremely low damage output at long range and bad mobility. Kite to win.

Very good observation!

“Run us out of 2 health bars” is not a very precise way to put it. Life force generation on a condition build is pathetic enough for necros to not have much life force in most encounters.

Burjis.3087:

“Run us out of 2 health bars” is not a very precise way to put it. Life force generation on a condition build is pathetic enough for necros to not have much life force in most encounters.

It’s imprecise on purpose.

When I’m playing my Necro I’m intimately aware of how difficult it is to generate and use Life Force. If I use it for damage or CC, then I don’t have it to absorb burst. If I use it up too fast then it’s gone, and it’s very difficult to get back on a conditions build.

When I’m playing against a Necro all of these details are hidden to me. All I see is that he has 2 health bars and I can’t burst through them both without getting stacked full of bleed/poison/torment/burning/fear.

PinCushion.7390:

People aren’t accustomed to long fights.

To beat a Necro you have to run us out of 2 health bars while taking substantial condition damage. This is going to involve ducking out of the fight to cleanse several times. The good news is that Necro has pretty awful mobility. The bad news is that our Condi Damage output is incredibly high, and if you get hit by fears at the wrong time you lose.

I play a Necro in WvW a good bit, but I play my staff Ele more. I got schooled by Necros in WvW before I figured out that I was taking loads of damage from Spectral Wall + Fear Damage, because I was a dummy and ran into it multiple times. Also, I was failing to run away from Necros because I would assume I had more time to hold out for cleansing…then get triple feared and drop dead.

Now, I range them. If I can stay close to max range all they can do is attempt to drop marks (which are easily dodged) and throw a bad auto-attack. They run out of LF eventually, and can’t really get away unless they flee to a keep or their group mates. Necros are incredibly vulnerable to ranged damage now. Closing to melee is crazy, since I’ll just be loaded with condis and feared to death.

If I played a Warrior vs a Necro I’d probably just swap to Rifle and kite him. As long as I can dodge the Dark Path and most of the marks there’s not a lot Necros can do about it.

That wasn’t true pre-patch. Pre-patch you could melee a Necro down faster than the conditions could kill you. Now you can’t. That’s not OP at all. It’s just different.

TL-DR: Necros are only a threat inside of Scepter range. The profession has extremely low damage output at long range and bad mobility. Kite to win.

Nice to see someone actually get it. Though, depending on build, Necros could be very strong in melee even before the recent changes; all it took was Wells and someone dumb enough to try to stand in them to beat on you fruitlessly (usually the garden variety heartseeker spammer) while they melted.

Overkillengine.6084:

Nice to see someone actually get it. Though, depending on build, Necros could be very strong in melee even before the recent changes; all it took was Wells and someone dumb enough to try to stand in them to beat on you fruitlessly (usually the garden variety heartseeker spammer) while they melted.

Heartseeker Spam + Spectral Wall = Warm Happy Feelings

Dadnir.5038:

loseridoit.2756:

Errr…. condition removal is not evenly distributed among classes. If you want a quick explanation, then here it is.

Just… No.

All classes are equal in this regard. It’s right that some classes have to trait for while Necromancers have to trait for things that are a given for other classes. But that’s the way of this game. You have to adapt your build to cover your weakness. If you only boost your strenght you’ll just ended frustrated.
I play a vampiric power build and yeah, I’m really weak against condition damage. A P/D thief kill me in no time just like he will kill any other classes that don’t build against condition damage.

I’ve seen that you play a warrior. You’ve got tons of traits to prevent conditions. Adapt your build.

I really think condition removal is the problem. I mainly play a bunker condition/regen ranger in wvw and i have to devout most of my traits, two utility skills, and a pet to condition removal to remove conditions effectively while other only have to take a trait or two. Conditions just fall off my engineer even without cleaning formula 409. Like i said earlier my ranger heavily uses conditions and so does my engineer so necro’s really aren’t that overpowered, its just necro’s are more consistent with keeping conditions on people.

everyone should be running engis with immune to conditions trait because conditions are OP AS kitten right now.

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

Inb4 Terror goes to GM trait. xD

Orrr before they slap it with a confusion level (50%) reduction. Tis coming. Be ready for it.

Darek.1836:

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

a necro.

Although in this case it’s not about negating damage, but doing even more damage by transfering later than your opponent.

And to everyone who said people just have to use more cleanses and need a few weeks to adept:
There’s just so much you can do, which for some classes just isn’t enough.
People won’t get an epiphany next week and go like “oh, look at that! there are some cleanses that I never noticed before… better use them now to deal with necros”.

PinCushion.7390:

TL-DR: Necros are only a threat inside of Scepter range. The profession has extremely low damage output at long range and bad mobility. Kite to win.

Easier said than done.
With a chill on marks you can close in on your opponent rather easily. Then there’s the golem’s cripple and knockdown, and of course Dark Path.
And let’s not forget that most other classes are more effective at close range as well.

“Kite to win” really applies more to necro than to any other class, and considering that you’ll also proc burning with marks, your ranged damage isn’t that bad at all.

flow.6043:

Darek.1836:

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

a necro.

Although in this case it’s not about negating damage, but doing even more damage by transfering later than your opponent.

And to everyone who said people just have to use more cleanses and need a few weeks to adept:
There’s just so much you can do, which for some classes just isn’t enough.
People won’t get an epiphany next week and go like “oh, look at that! there are some cleanses that I never noticed before… better use them now to deal with necros”.

PinCushion.7390:

TL-DR: Necros are only a threat inside of Scepter range. The profession has extremely low damage output at long range and bad mobility. Kite to win.

Easier said than done.
With a chill on marks you can close in on your opponent rather easily. Then there’s the golem’s cripple and knockdown, and of course Dark Path.
And let’s not forget that most other classes are more effective at close range as well.

“Kite to win” really applies more to necro than to any other class, and considering that you’ll also proc burning with marks, your ranged damage isn’t that bad at all.

If I hadn’t played the class myself, reading what you wrote, I would think that Necromancers never ever ever ever die. Like they can 1 on 1 anyone anytime anywhere with a flick of a button. Terror have always been there, enfeebling blood have always been there, two source of fear have always been there (Spectral wall is your own fault). The only thing that changed, weakness and fire. If by your logic those two are game breaking then condition warrior must be fearsome -_-. They got access to bleeds, fear, weakness, and fire.

Moreover, 30/30/x… is a squishy build, if you get focused first you are dead meat. You don’t even regenerate LF as fast as power builds. Most of the nagging is 1 on 1, where mesmers and thieves are still kings of the hill.

People aren’t used to seeing necromancers at this level of strength.
Before: oh see! a necromancer! easy kill. Ctrl+T
Now: oh kitten! a necromancer… cast condition removal!
But the fact is, necromancers can be focus fired down almost as easy as before, and that is easier than almost all other classes. Before the update, necromancers weren’t viewed as that much of a threat. Now they are, hence the mentality that they are OP.

I kinda agree that some tweaks might be needed. Like for example, sigil of paralyzation no longer affecting fear is, in my opinion, a right move.

Oh and before I forget, an AR engineer is a hard counter to condition necromancers 1v1.

The best clue that necro is in fact a bit OP is a first forum page dedicated to a necromancer. There isn’t a single post where people cry and rage how the class is underpowered, kittenty or rubbish (which was in fact, for those who were present at time, the case when the game came out). Just go to ranger forum to see what I’m talking about.
Secondly, necromancers are fairly easy to play – so it is not that hard to utilize their strengths. That’s not to say that skill won’t improve your play even further, just like good build choices would make even better – I’m simply pointing out that playing some other classes is fairly harder and this is the fact which no one should deny.
Personally, I haven’t had that much trouble versus necros although it can be a bit ridiculous to see a single guy in the middle of the opponents zerg for like half a minute. You instantly can assume it’s a necro

Before you people cry about imbalance please post a video of you playing and your build so the community can determine whether you have a right to your claims. I’m 99% sure most of the “gamers” either have sub par gear, builds, and movement (Back peddle, Clicking, Key turning, not dodge rolling). I strongly believe if these things apply to you then you have no right to come to the forums and whine. You are not playing the best you can be playing so of course good people are going to make short work of you.

HatasGunnaHate.3627:

Before you people cry about imbalance please post a video of you playing and your build so the community can determine whether you have a right to your claims. I’m 99% sure most of the “gamers” either have sub par gear, builds, and movement (Back peddle, Clicking, Key turning, not dodge rolling). I strongly believe if these things apply to you then you have no right to come to the forums and whine. You are not playing the best you can be playing so of course good people are going to make short work of you.

necros are OP and Im probably one of the best guardians in those terms in the game (I truly believe that, call me selfish and I may be wrong)
of course Im not completely specced into condition negation but that ofcourse would probably make no difference.

Darek.1836:

everyone should be running engis with immune to conditions trait because conditions are OP AS kitten right now.

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

“I mean like a full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.”

One of the most stupid things i have ever heard… You actually scream out that you can’t completely shut down necromancers anymore ? You are trying to find the class / build that can make necromancers just go AFK like it was before with bunker elementalists with -50% chill duration or close to fear immunity ?

Oh i’m sorry… the times necromancer was a free kill are gone… cry that your free kill is gone all you want, it was inevitable…

Complete counter to necromancer conditions he said… need to find a "complete counter to almost perma-stealth thief, or a way to stop bunker elementalists from always disengaging a fight when ever they feel like it.

Say mate… you wouldn’t know a “complete counter” to elementalist mist form into blink into ride the lighting into fire would you ?… ELEMENTALIST OP !… and nerf thief too… perma-stealth wth is that crap… let me see now, yeah… guardians can become invulnerable, what the f… is that NERF !…

Moa anyone ?

Nemesis.8593:

Darek.1836:

everyone should be running engis with immune to conditions trait because conditions are OP AS kitten right now.

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

“I mean like a full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.”

One of the most stupid things i have ever heard… You actually scream out that you can’t completely shut down necromancers anymore ? You are trying to find the class / build that can make necromancers just go AFK like it was before with bunker elementalists with -50% chill duration or close to fear immunity ?

Oh i’m sorry… the times necromancer was a free kill are gone… cry that your free kill is gone all you want, it was inevitable…

Complete counter to necromancer conditions he said… need to find a "complete counter to almost perma-stealth thief, or a way to stop bunker elementalists from always disengaging a fight when ever they feel like it.

Say mate… you wouldn’t know a “complete counter” to elementalist mist form into blink into ride the lighting into fire would you ?… ELEMENTALIST OP !… and nerf thief too… perma-stealth wth is that crap… let me see now, yeah… guardians can become invulnerable, what the f… is that NERF !…

Moa anyone ?

yeah its called immobolize for the elemtnalist lel
CC perma stealth thieves when they throw down their fields.. wow
Im literally just trying to find out if its even possible to mitigate necromancers by a fraction if you fully spec for it on any class, but you obviously can’t comprehend that and think the necromancer is completely fine as having no counter.

Darek.1836:

yeah its called immobolize for the elemtnalist lel
CC perma stealth thieves when they throw down their fields.. wow
Im literally just trying to find out if its even possible to mitigate necromancers by a fraction if you fully spec for it on any class, but you obviously can’t comprehend that and think the necromancer is completely fine as having no counter.

move on folks this one just isn’t a learner, yet he claims he is trying to be one…

just give him time and not attention.

Darek.1836:

Nemesis.8593:

Darek.1836:

everyone should be running engis with immune to conditions trait because conditions are OP AS kitten right now.

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

“I mean like a full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.”

One of the most stupid things i have ever heard… You actually scream out that you can’t completely shut down necromancers anymore ? You are trying to find the class / build that can make necromancers just go AFK like it was before with bunker elementalists with -50% chill duration or close to fear immunity ?

Oh i’m sorry… the times necromancer was a free kill are gone… cry that your free kill is gone all you want, it was inevitable…

Complete counter to necromancer conditions he said… need to find a "complete counter to almost perma-stealth thief, or a way to stop bunker elementalists from always disengaging a fight when ever they feel like it.

Say mate… you wouldn’t know a “complete counter” to elementalist mist form into blink into ride the lighting into fire would you ?… ELEMENTALIST OP !… and nerf thief too… perma-stealth wth is that crap… let me see now, yeah… guardians can become invulnerable, what the f… is that NERF !…

Moa anyone ?

yeah its called immobolize for the elemtnalist lel
CC perma stealth thieves when they throw down their fields.. wow
Im literally just trying to find out if its even possible to mitigate necromancers by a fraction if you fully spec for it on any class, but you obviously can’t comprehend that and think the necromancer is completely fine as having no counter.

How did you get from “full on complete counter” to “having no counter”… are you being sneaky ?

Oh… and i will so try to immobolize the mist form elementalist, i will be the one that immobolizez the elementalist’s mist form, for i am Nemesis…

ugh I figured no one on the forums are actually good players.
but anyway what I really meant about “full on complete counter” was not the effectiveness, but the effort by the person trying to counter. As in I spec completely and fully in an effort to counter conditions or necromancers.
also never said it was suppose to be easy lel, just possible.

Man, talk about histrionics. 6 months ago, people would actually ignore my necro because it wasn’t worth the time to kill him unless he was actively blocking a cap. Now that it’s possible to contribute to the fight, its suddenly OP? Unbelievable.

@Nemesis – I really don’t like you saying elementalists are OP… if class with the lowest health pool and weakest armor in the game is tough to bring down, it is mostly because of the very good play. We all saw tons of elementalists trying to reproduce what they saw in videos once and failed miserably.
Elementalists are by far tougher to master then necros – and truth to be told some class features were easily exploitable in the hand of a skillful player. On the other hand to play necro effectively you need IF half as much skill. (please don’t try to convince me otherwise because you will not succeed)

And to conclude, necros are not op. they may have need some tweaks and polishing but they are decent as they are. To beat them you need some skill, which a lot of common gamers don’t simply posses.

gunnerCRO.5017:

@Nemesis – I really don’t like you saying elementalists are OP… if class with the lowest health pool and weakest armor in the game is tough to bring down, it is mostly because of the very good play. We all saw tons of elementalists trying to reproduce what they saw in videos once and failed miserably.
Elementalists are by far tougher to master then necros – and truth to be told some class features were easily exploitable in the hand of a skillful player. On the other hand to play necro effectively you need IF half as much skill. (please don’t try to convince me otherwise because you will not succeed)

And to conclude, necros are not op. they may have need some tweaks and polishing but they are decent as they are. To beat them you need some skill, which a lot of common gamers don’t simply posses.

I’ve found there’s no way to beat them with guard but yeah besides the point

Darek.1836:

I’ve found there’s no way to beat them with guard but yeah besides the point

you should keep looking and you will find a unusual guard.

Because we went from being free kills to one of the greatest threats.

While there are legitimately broken builds around ( 30/30/10 comes to mind ) the necromancer as a whole is definitely not overpowered. We’re still a tier below the ever dominant mesmers.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Because we went from being free kills to one of the greatest threats.

While there are legitimately broken builds around ( 30/30/10 comes to mind ) the necromancer as a whole is definitely not overpowered. We’re still a tier below the ever dominant mesmers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List-Updated-6-30

actuallu, necros are above mesmer right now

the last patch sort of gave a minor nerf to mesmer

gunnerCRO.5017:

@Nemesis – I really don’t like you saying elementalists are OP… if class with the lowest health pool and weakest armor in the game is tough to bring down, it is mostly because of the very good play. We all saw tons of elementalists trying to reproduce what they saw in videos once and failed miserably.
Elementalists are by far tougher to master then necros – and truth to be told some class features were easily exploitable in the hand of a skillful player. On the other hand to play necro effectively you need IF half as much skill. (please don’t try to convince me otherwise because you will not succeed)

And to conclude, necros are not op. they may have need some tweaks and polishing but they are decent as they are. To beat them you need some skill, which a lot of common gamers don’t simply posses.

So the fact that before patch if i were to join hot join in on my over 1500 ours of play necromancer, and 2-3 players came up to me… i would die 95% of the time no matter what i do… and if i switch to my 5 hour played elementalist, join hot join… i NEVER died no matter how many tried to focus fire me.

This proves that elementalist are so much harder to play then necromancers, and so much easier to kill right ?…

I can prove what i said at any day of the week, but that won’t convince you right ?…

ps: there was a lot of sarcasm in what i said ?… i don’t know if my english is that bad for people not to get it.

I don’t know you but it wouldn’t matter. even if i did know you I would tell you exactly the same thing: Do not put words in other people’s mouth, especially if they are my mouth. Nothing you write is even remotely what i said. (no sarcasm in my sentences)

What i said was not in any way a cheap shot that had any intention of undermining necro players, and if you interpreted this is such a way (which i have a feeling you did) than you sir have a problem with comprehending other peoples thoughts (although it may be the forum mentality where everybody’s full of prejudices).

Furthermore, you did one thing I asked you not to – you tried to convince me that necros are harder to play than eles (which is completely ridiculous). I notice that you are some kind of big shot here (there was a bit of sarcasm here to be honest), but that does not make you right in everything you do or write.

And by now you people should have realized that necromancer is not very mobile. So, do not wonder why you died if your positioning is wrong. That’s purely on you, not class or Anet.

gunnerCRO.5017:

I don’t know you but it wouldn’t matter. even if i did know you I would tell you exactly the same thing: Do not put words in other people’s mouth, especially if they are my mouth. Nothing you write is even remotely what i said. (no sarcasm in my sentences)

What i said was not in any way a cheap shot that had any intention of undermining necro players, and if you interpreted this is such a way (which i have a feeling you did) than you sir have a problem with comprehending other peoples thoughts (although it may be the forum mentality where everybody’s full of prejudices).

Furthermore, you did one thing I asked you not to – you tried to convince me that necros are harder to play than eles (which is completely ridiculous). I notice that you are some kind of big shot here (there was a bit of sarcasm here to be honest), but that does not make you right in everything you do or write.

And by now you people should have realized that necromancer is not very mobile. So, do not wonder why you died if your positioning is wrong. That’s purely on you, not class or Anet.

Until you show me how to position on a wooden beam that is so thin… that more then 2 people can’t be on it, therefor forces a 1v1, positioning will never ensure you won’t get 1v2/3ed…

Hmm… got to find a wooden beam and carry it in my backpack, then convince people to fight me on it.

It’s not about being a big shot or not, and i was unusually mean in what i wrote, i don’t normally get involved, but people took it to the next level…

Necromancers are now not only OP, but so easier to play… it’s like warrior 100B or thief heartseeker spam.
Trust me… it’s annoying…

Anyway, back to my work… been working for like 4 days on a new video for you guys…

What nemesis actually meant was a sarcasm, pointing out that if necros are to be nerfed because of x and y, then one might also cry to nerf eles and mesmers and etc.
And also I didn’t really see anything in gunnerCRO’s post that would suggest him believing necros to be that OP.
I don’t understand what are you two arguing about (other than how hard it is to play necro or ele).

I for one have an easier time playing necro conditionmancer than anything else BUT it’s mainly because of the fact that I’ve spent 98% of my GW2 play time on a necro and because of how DoT kiter builds match my play style. I’ll have as much trouble playing a bunker necro as I would playing a bunker guardian (ironically, I can play a bunker guardian better than a bunker necro)