Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bas.7406

Bas.7406

Epidemic does only work 60 percent of the time. The level of evades, blocks, and misses is ridiculous at the moment. Corrupt boon misses even more.

90 percent of the time = very good.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Kardiamond.6952

Kardiamond.6952

@Bas

Then it would only work 50% of the time.

I didn’t count the evade blocks misses of the minions.

You know what I mean, I don’t know why you turn this around like that ahah! :P

An ability can only land 50% of the time if it depend of the player skill to land it.

But it can’t depend of a coding mistake to land.

That’s 10%(in your opinion) miss caused by a bug!

Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]

(edited by Kardiamond.6952)

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bas.7406

Bas.7406

Your logic baffles me. Playing more matches as a MM defeats the reality of the situation? I’m sorry, but when was your made up internet ego more relevant to the topic than actual problem at hand? When did this become “I played X amount more than you so the problem isn’t there”?

Minions don’t always attack on 2 auto attacks, or at all in some cases. It isn’t user error, sadly, as much as I wish it was. Minions still have the same old problems as they did months ago, no fix, nothing. This isn’t even a spvp problem, its pve as well. It baffles me how arenanet misses this constantly.

You seem to be an intelligent player, so let me explain this as best I can without sounding condescending.

1). I have never stated Minions were perfect or the best way to do anything. I simply said they work for their intended purpose, and are as functional and effective as every other utility skill we have. Signets are bad, Corruption skills miss and get blocked, wells are easily avoided, and we could go on.

2). 500 tournament games and closing in on 500 hours of MM gameplay = a larger pool of data to collect from. If you notice the players who have spent countless hours as a MM are rarely the ones complaining about it. Hizasul is really the only 100’s of hours of MM that routinely complains about the state of MM, but even he readily admits that it’s the fact that AoE wipes them out that’s the main issue and not the AI.

20 hours of MM experience versus 500 hours of MM Experience is a vast difference in pool of data to judge from. 500 games in Tournament and structured pvp as an MM versus the 10 to 12 out of 1k games you have played as a MM = larger pool of available data.

The larger the pool of available data the better you are able to judge the actual situations that create the issues that MM faces. I have never once stated that their isn’t occassionally a wonky MM issue. I have simply stated that it’s perception over reality. If you play 2 hours, and it bugs out 3 times during those two hours than you will say WHAT A CRAPPY SYSTEM!!! If you continue to play and over a span of 22 hours you see it bug out 4 total times, than you say it need some fixes. When you play 500 hours, and you see a total of 15 total fails, and around 50 Flesh Golem Failures with about 100 Bone Minion bugs. Over 10000 attempts you can see it’s not as bad as the guy who played for 2 hours had 20 attempts and had it but out 5 times.

I have always stated that their are days where the minions don’t react perfectly, and in our Minion AI video we clearly showed that there is anywhere from a 4-6 second delay sometimes on attacks depending on which abilities were used and weapons were used.

If this still baffles you please let me know. I would be glad to explain further how empirical evidence is never arrived at instantly so the more evidence you have the better your view on the subject becomes. I have taken Minions into every single dungeon with success outside of a few bosses, but then every build has situations with certain bosses (conditionmancers with CoF P2, AC p3, and so on)

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bas.7406

Bas.7406

@Bas

Then it would only work 50% of the time.

I didn’t count the evade blocks misses of the minions.

You know what I mean, I don’t know why you turn this around like that ahah! :P

An ability can only land 50% of the time if it depend of the player skill to land it.

But it can’t depend of a coding mistake to land.

That’s 10%(in your opinion) miss caused by a bug!

I am simply pointing out that every single utility has success and failures.

It’s not a bug it’s bad NPC coding. It’s prevalent with every single NPC AI in the game including Mesmer Illusions, guardian spirit weapons, Ranger Spirit Pets, and Ranger pets. I have talked at length with all of these classes, and every single one of them would take something from the Minions.

Ranger spirit pets = horrifyingly bad
Guardian Spirit Weapons = useless
Mesmer Illusions = wonky and the only reason you don’t notice it is because they can get new once to drop the broken one any time.
Ranger Pets = Attack and retreat keys are the only way to get it to work correctly. They still aren’t perfect as when they swap they have to wait two seconds to actually hit a button so their pet can face the fight. Their retreat takes a few seconds to actually call the pet back.

It’s not a Minion issue, it’s Arenanet’s coding for NPC AI. I would have to ask them as to why it’s that way.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Empiren.6401

Empiren.6401

Yeah bas, problem is that I played 30 minutes and in that span half my minions stopped attacking in at least 6 different occasions(fights)>

Be it large or small, the pool size of testing really doesn’t matter. If it doesn’t work consistently all the time, its broken. Its the same for any skill or any attack, if it does not act the same way every time, it cannot be relied upon.
—————————————————-

Also lol @ “It’s not a Minion issue, it’s Arenanet’s coding for NPC AI.” Yeah, well minions fall under that category so it is a minion issue.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Kardiamond.6952

Kardiamond.6952

@Bas

Then it would only work 50% of the time.

I didn’t count the evade blocks misses of the minions.

You know what I mean, I don’t know why you turn this around like that ahah! :P

An ability can only land 50% of the time if it depend of the player skill to land it.

But it can’t depend of a coding mistake to land.

That’s 10%(in your opinion) miss caused by a bug!

I am simply pointing out that every single utility has success and failures.

It’s not a bug it’s bad NPC coding. It’s prevalent with every single NPC AI in the game including Mesmer Illusions, guardian spirit weapons, Ranger Spirit Pets, and Ranger pets. I have talked at length with all of these classes, and every single one of them would take something from the Minions.

Ranger spirit pets = horrifyingly bad
Guardian Spirit Weapons = useless
Mesmer Illusions = wonky and the only reason you don’t notice it is because they can get new once to drop the broken one any time.
Ranger Pets = Attack and retreat keys are the only way to get it to work correctly. They still aren’t perfect as when they swap they have to wait two seconds to actually hit a button so their pet can face the fight. Their retreat takes a few seconds to actually call the pet back.

It’s not a Minion issue, it’s Arenanet’s coding for NPC AI. I would have to ask them as to why it’s that way.

So you agree it’s an issue?

How does it matter what kind of issue is this?

The guy asked if is minion AI would still be bugged next patch. Bhawb said they aren’t, and you backed him.

They are bugged. Be it 10% like you think, or sometime 50% like I think.

This is a coding issue and I really wonder how you can be “again” resolving that.

I’m really not following you right now Bas.

Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bas.7406

Bas.7406

So you agree it’s an issue?

How does it matter what kind of issue is this?

The guy asked if is minion AI would still be bugged next patch. Bhawb said they aren’t, and you backed him.

They are bugged. Be it 10% like you think, or sometime 50% like I think.

This is a coding issue and I really wonder how you can be “again” resolving that.

I’m really not following you right now Bas.

Let me try and break it down a bit more for you.

Spectral Walk misses with no reason or explanation. Death Shroud you can get knocked out of if you hit it at the same time as a knockback happens. Corrupt Boon will sometimes do nothing at all, but sit on CD.

Epidemic will do a los miss if your feet don’t see the feet of the opponent you are casting it at. Wells have a cast time (small, but still long enough for people to dodge out of it).

We have exaggerated cast times that create huge disadvantages in gameplay where a majority of ranged have instant casts.

Minions die to an AOE storm instantly which means my entire survival is skunked for at least 30 seconds.

These are issues.

Minions have a 10 percent malfunction is not an issue. It’s an annoyance, that is remedied and minimalized over time played as an MM.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bas.7406

Bas.7406

Yeah bas, problem is that I played 30 minutes and in that span half my minions stopped attacking in at least 6 different occasions(fights)>

Be it large or small, the pool size of testing really doesn’t matter. If it doesn’t work consistently all the time, its broken. Its the same for any skill or any attack, if it does not act the same way every time, it cannot be relied upon.
—————————————————-

Also lol @ “It’s not a Minion issue, it’s Arenanet’s coding for NPC AI.” Yeah, well minions fall under that category so it is a minion issue.

I apologize I didn’t realize empirical evidence can be caluclated within 30 minutes. Heck, I spent 30 minutes reading about video editing. I now know everything about video editing so when i do it it’s absolutely positively correct right. Anything I say about those 30 minutes is true across the board with all video editing. See the problem with that method of collection?

No utility works perfectly all the time. Minions function more often than Corrupt boon, epidemic, signets, Spectral Grasp and Dark Path. The issue is more with the fact that any aoe can essentially kill them in tournament play. It’s baffling because in Dungeons, my minions will survive most aoe that is not boss aoe, but they go into pvp and one single shatter will kill them all.

I agree that it’s not a perfect system. I am not sure where you seem to get me explaining there are bigger issues is me saying all minions are perfect? They aren’t and a few simple fixes is all that’s needed, but the current AI is not game breaking. Corrupt Boon and Epidemic screwing up with no reason is game breaking. Having Spectral Grasp and Dark Path miss is game breaking. Watching LB completely miss someone because it doesn’t follow is game breaking.

I can guarantee you, that if you and I spent a few hours using Minions together, you would notice that your claim of BROKEN AI is overblown.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Kravick.4906

Kravick.4906

I can guarantee you, that if you and I spent a few hours using Minions together, you would notice that your claim of BROKEN AI is overblown.

No, its not overblown. They’re pretty freakin broken. Something that cannot be relied to function as intended 100% of the time is broken. This isn’t a player dodged your ability so it missed problem. Its a series of skills that simply don’t work as they’re supposed to problem. You can try to make any justification you like, but those are the facts.

Stuff goes here.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Empiren.6401

Empiren.6401

@Bas do you even realize how silly you sound? Empirical evidence? Oh that’s a laugh. I find it hard for me to even take your stuff seriously when you go on and on without providing a lick of proof. Hell, even in your minion ai video it even shows you mutiple times where your minions just stand there.

Fact remains that you can play any small or large amount of time, the minions are still broken.

They aren’t horrifying broken no, but they don’t work enough times to be useful. So please, get over yourself and your “empirical evidence”(when you posted none), and realize that this is a problem still.

Your constant ego-boosting isn’t helping btw.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Xom.9264

Xom.9264

Have not played in months and am still seeing the issue, its only game breaking against Thiefs and Mesmers(with stealth builds) or in situations that you need to change targets alot.

I have zero issues with my rangers pets however they have attack commands. The issue could be put to rest if Anet would just put a attack command on pets (not timer based)

Bas no one here has anything to gain by making false claims about Necro pet AI, however you seem to have taken peoples complaint as a personal insult or just found a change to stroke your ego.

Anyway I dont see anything changing its just not high on Anets to do lists there are things worst off then necro pet AI.

Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: TheAgedGnome.7520

TheAgedGnome.7520

I used minions last night again for my dailies and Orr events and had one of the Bone Minions not attack 2 or 3 times. Its possible there were more occurrences I didn’t notice, because they are so small. But, overall, that is quite a small percentage of failures (maybe 1-3%?). When dealing with fast-dying swarms of mobs, the minions are often useless since they spend more time target-switching than actually attacking, but I am not counting those as failures, since they do appear to be actively retargeting as mobs die.

1) Buggy AI is a bug, whether it occurs frequently or not.

2) Whether its 1 person with 500 battles or 10 people with 50 battles each, it adds up to the same cumulative statistical amount of battle data, and so it seems the latter circumstances cannot be discounted out of hand.

3) I still come back to wondering if there is some other factor, such as race (I’m Asura), sigil/rune procs, traits or something else which is causing these disparate experiences with minions.

4) It makes no sense why the bone minions are the primary culprit. The AI packages should be same for all the minions, with only some parameter changes to give the appearance of different behavior. Hopefully, they did not hand-code AI packages for each minion type separately.

Stealth nerfs are the perfect fertilizer for mistrust.
PVE Power and Support Build

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Panhauramix.2784

Panhauramix.2784

They’re smaller, LoS is feet to feet, they can’t see the feet of their target so they panic. Guess sometimes they can’t see their own feet too, so they double panic.

A small bandaid that I would take, if not for the laugh: When they enter Panic mode, they jump to see if there’s a feet near, if they see one, they charge it and explode. We could all have small bouncing undead kangourous instead of squirrels!!

80’s: Razdhül Necro/Desire Mesmer/ Ykarys War/ Yphrit Ele/
Panhauramix Guardian/Pistoleros Engineer/ Orbite Thief
Gates of Madness – Leader of Homicide Volontaire [HV]

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Kravick.4906

Kravick.4906

They’re smaller, LoS is feet to feet, they can’t see the feet of their target so they panic. Guess sometimes they can’t see their own feet too, so they double panic.

A small bandaid that I would take, if not for the laugh: When they enter Panic mode, they jump to see if there’s a feet near, if they see one, they charge it and explode. We could all have small bouncing undead kangourous instead of squirrels!!

I support this idea.

Stuff goes here.

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Zogyark.4597

Zogyark.4597

I find it amazing that people are actually defending minions not attacking.

However, I think we can all agree that even if minions did function properly 100% of the time, they still wouldn’t be worth using. Everyone thats started a necro to be a minion master has been majorly disappointed.
But hey, this is a game where the warrior class has better gun skills than the engineer class.

Disagree with your second statement. I have found that a bunker Minion build can pretty much make you immortal with permanent regeneration on you and your minions, healing well, over 2.5k toughness and 31k health while minions siphon health and still do great damage. I guarantee you nothing else will give you as much survival.

Though I did like the GW1 Minions better, but still they can be useful in situations.

Necromancer Lupicus Solo – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWkSkhmWiDU

Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.

(edited by Zogyark.4597)

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Palmski.6419

Palmski.6419

It’s a weapon and pathing issue. It’s not a Minion AI issue as it’s not prevalent with every single minion. Flesh Golem and Bone Minions seem to run into the NPC wonky AI more than others.

In my 500 plus pvp games as a MM. I can guarantee you their rate is closer to 90 percent. The problems in pvp is Engineer and burst ele train wreck a full minion build so quickly it’s a joke. Let’s not even get started with talking about how badly they perform against Shatter Mesmers.

Kravick, you fought me, and my minions were on you the whole time except when you disappeared.

We released a video about this, and did basic tests.

We also confirmed several well known issues.

1) Weapons have a huge effect on Minions performance. Staff and Scepter are awful with their Minion responsiveness. Axe Auto and Dagger Auto have the greatest success.

2) Weapon skills with piercing or AOE cause a delayed response on minion action. (Our unproven theory is that this is to help with pulls).

3) Marks seem to have their own world in terms of Minion AI, while Scepter causes the most noticeable issues and we are unsure why since it’s random.

4) Any AoE attack not followed immediately by a single target Auto Attack has a real high probability of bugging out your melee minions.

5) The only way to get constant minion attacks is to use only Single target attacks on an enemy.

6) Another easy way to get a minion to attack is to use a single target attack and then hide behind your minion until they are attacked (there will be delays as they have to identify your target).

7. We also noticed that server response time can create an issue with noticing the responsiveness. Bhawb and I are both west coast and so closer to the main server. I have noticed while playing with an EU player, that while his seems to take longer to respond it has more to do with server communication as they still respond he just doesn’t see it or the server communication is slower.

I like running around with minions out in open world PvE purely because it looks kinda cool, but I do struggle to get them to behave on a regular basis as I’ve posted before.

Your point above about weapon choice is very interesting as I exclusively use sceptre/dagger/staff and find my minions bugging out much more frequently than you suggest in your testing. If nothing else it confirms I’m not going mad, at least not this time.

My main rotation is to pull with sceptre 2 before going into autos to stack bleeds which again seems to go against the optimum way to play with minions.

7) is also an interesting point given the problems everyone is having with skill lag in WvW right now.

As I only PvE to do my dailies these days it’s kind of moot I guess, but it is an unintentional forcing of a certain playstyle and certain weapons on those who would use minions which can’t be a good thing.

[TaG] – GH

Will my minions start attacking on the 30th?

in Necromancer

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Claiming minions are no worse than our other utilities is a joke. Yea sure some corruption skills miss alot but thats because they can be easily dodged and blocked atm. Nothing wrong with the spectral skills except spectral grasp getting caught on terrain and cooldowns. And theres is absolutely nothing wrong with wells, completely reliable and do exactly what they are supposed to.

Minions are just the classes pointless and broken set. If they had ranger pet AI then maybe they would work a little better. If it isnt reliable then it needs fixing. I dont know any other class that has a complete set of utilities which fail to work how they are supposed to consistantly.