Guild Wars 2

…with minions that were temporary summons like Mesmer illusions?

It seems like a majority of the minion issues revolve either around environment path finding or combat/non-combat mode toggling, or dying when the Necromancer uses a form change ability or touches water more than ankle deep.

Temporary summons but short recharges for most summons for minions would side step a lot of these issues at least partially, as you would call them out only when you needed them, on the spot, and you would have a much shorter wait before being useful again if something splattered them or you got Moa’d.

Or simply start the cooldown/recharge the moment they are summoned, not on death.

Due to the really stupid AI and the fact that minions die way to easily, especially if there are some AoEs involved, even that wouldn’t matter much.

TBH I actually wish they made minions work like phantasms. I prefer the playstyle much more, and it would really fit the “temporary” pet theme.

I personally liked the idea of “set it and forget it” pets, but… eh… I honestly don’t care what happens to minions at this point.

digiowl

Due to the really stupid AI and the fact that minions die way to easily, especially if there are some AoEs involved, even that wouldn’t matter much.

Exactly. Part of why I suggested they just be a short recharge temp summons.

It would almost be better. Its really cool to see yourself being surrounded by 6 or so minions, but to start a fight with them ALL under half health is a bad idea. I ALWAYS kill off the ones I can and re-summon them.

If they died at the end of combat, not after a specific enemy died, and had a shorter cooldown it would actually be a lot better

Making Minions temp isn’t the solution to them. They need a revamp of stats, AI, function and abilities, not be neutered further.

I’d like it if there was a weapon that focused around summoning lots of jagged horrors.

Illiji.5318:

I personally liked the idea of “set it and forget it” pets, but… eh… I honestly don’t care what happens to minions at this point.

Minions shouldn’t be that anyway, they have active skills you know.

minion masters are fine just moa needs fixing and the pets need to have a bit better ai.

barti.7685:

minion masters are fine just moa needs fixing and the pets need to have a bit better ai.

You’re kidding, right? Fine except those two issues? Have you ever used the minions? You would know that there are a ton of issues with minions as is. Flesh golems not going under water, pets dieing on changing forms, terrible life expectancy, giving a free rally because of that lack of health, not regening health, and many more. Minion masters are fine, if you like a kittened set up.

@ynot sure i played them even made a movie about my experience with pets a few posts below. about the horrors and rally i tried to rally of one a few days ago and that didnt work nor did i ever saw someone rally of one of my jagged horrors. I don’t say its entirely impossible just that in quite a few games as necromancer never really noticed it myself.

pets dieing on changing form i like my flesh golem tbh wouldnt trade it for lich on a pet build myself. terrible life expectancy can be fixed with flesh of the master. not regening health ok i give you that the flesh golem does regen health out of combat tho… so they can obviously fix that without to much problems. you can also heal your pets with mark of blood and life transfer

i think the main reason why minion masters feel screwed because it takes a lot of micromanaging things and it gets all cluttered up fast a well spec is much easier to play so is a dot build

No, you can’t micro because the pets don’t have the ability. Hit DS(our survivability mechanic) and you lose your minions. Go underwater and our only elites ruin the ability to use our minions. I don’t use lich, I use golem and I run a condition spec. I actually really like the golem even with all the issues. I tried to spec into giving my minions a ton of health but they still die in a heartbeat.
For the record, these are all really WvWvW and t/sPvP issues. In PVE they are alright and I don’t mind going minion build. They have a lot of fixes that need to be done. After those are fixed I might just go back to my minion build for everything, but as of right now they are kittened.

To be honest, I would like to see some of our minions be the ghost or shades of enemies we just dropped, for a short time of course. No management, other than I hit attack, and it automatically goes for my target. No minion management, just a heat seeking missle that either is destroyed, destroys its target, or runs out of energy and turns to dust. Maybe we could have the elite pet (the golem) as the only minion we truly control. and make the others battle dependent.

That would make the necromancer too much like the mesmer and really take away from the class. It’s also an easy cop out solution.

A real solution to fixing the problem is to:
1. fix AI
2. make the minion master trait actually decrease the minion active cooldown
3.undo the “transformations kill all minions” crap (at least for elites and moa form)

Ynot.8397:

No, you can’t micro because the pets don’t have the ability. Hit DS(our survivability mechanic) and you lose your minions. Go underwater and our only elites ruin the ability to use our minions. I don’t use lich, I use golem and I run a condition spec. I actually really like the golem even with all the issues. I tried to spec into giving my minions a ton of health but they still die in a heartbeat.
For the record, these are all really WvWvW and t/sPvP issues. In PVE they are alright and I don’t mind going minion build. They have a lot of fixes that need to be done. After those are fixed I might just go back to my minion build for everything, but as of right now they are kittened.

lose your minions in deathshroud o.O ?! i never ever ever experienced that. you can also heal your minions with mark of blood and life transfer btw.

barti.7685:

Ynot.8397:

No, you can’t micro because the pets don’t have the ability. Hit DS(our survivability mechanic) and you lose your minions. Go underwater and our only elites ruin the ability to use our minions. I don’t use lich, I use golem and I run a condition spec. I actually really like the golem even with all the issues. I tried to spec into giving my minions a ton of health but they still die in a heartbeat.
For the record, these are all really WvWvW and t/sPvP issues. In PVE they are alright and I don’t mind going minion build. They have a lot of fixes that need to be done. After those are fixed I might just go back to my minion build for everything, but as of right now they are kittened.

lose your minions in deathshroud o.O ?! i never ever ever experienced that. you can also heal your minions with mark of blood and life transfer btw.

what he means, is that a lot of the minions outright stop attacking when you enter DS. You also can’t use the minion actives when in DS.

strange i never noticed pets stopping attacking in ds what i do notice is that pets are very erratic vs thiefs and classes that go invis in general so mesmers and thiefs mostly sometimes engineers but thats more of an ai thing imo..

striker.3704:

barti.7685:

Ynot.8397:

No, you can’t micro because the pets don’t have the ability. Hit DS(our survivability mechanic) and you lose your minions. Go underwater and our only elites ruin the ability to use our minions. I don’t use lich, I use golem and I run a condition spec. I actually really like the golem even with all the issues. I tried to spec into giving my minions a ton of health but they still die in a heartbeat.
For the record, these are all really WvWvW and t/sPvP issues. In PVE they are alright and I don’t mind going minion build. They have a lot of fixes that need to be done. After those are fixed I might just go back to my minion build for everything, but as of right now they are kittened.

lose your minions in deathshroud o.O ?! i never ever ever experienced that. you can also heal your minions with mark of blood and life transfer btw.

what he means, is that a lot of the minions outright stop attacking when you enter DS. You also can’t use the minion actives when in DS.

Can you use any actives? Is this uniquely a minion master concern?

Dispari.3980:

striker.3704:

barti.7685:

Ynot.8397:

No, you can’t micro because the pets don’t have the ability. Hit DS(our survivability mechanic) and you lose your minions. Go underwater and our only elites ruin the ability to use our minions. I don’t use lich, I use golem and I run a condition spec. I actually really like the golem even with all the issues. I tried to spec into giving my minions a ton of health but they still die in a heartbeat.
For the record, these are all really WvWvW and t/sPvP issues. In PVE they are alright and I don’t mind going minion build. They have a lot of fixes that need to be done. After those are fixed I might just go back to my minion build for everything, but as of right now they are kittened.

lose your minions in deathshroud o.O ?! i never ever ever experienced that. you can also heal your minions with mark of blood and life transfer btw.

what he means, is that a lot of the minions outright stop attacking when you enter DS. You also can’t use the minion actives when in DS.

Can you use any actives? Is this uniquely a minion master concern?

You can’t activate abilities when in DS if that is what you mean. Thanks for clearing that up Striker.

Dispari.3980:

Illiji.5318:

I personally liked the idea of “set it and forget it” pets, but… eh… I honestly don’t care what happens to minions at this point.

Minions shouldn’t be that anyway, they have active skills you know.

I should clarify by stating that “set it and forget it” meant I didn’t have to resummon them every 40 seconds or whatever a timed minion spawn would mean. I totally believe minions should have unique skills for each type, but I also believe they should work.

I have a hard time relying on buttons with inconsistant results. Click charge on flesh golem, and he could knock down your target (as intended), run through them and aggro a group a football field away, or stand there and pick his nose. All equally possible with the current minion AI. Bone Minions could be neat living grenades, but they’re equally likely to be behind you as they are to be next to your current target – clicking their skill isn’t a “target my target, then blow up” command, it’s just “blow up.” All of our minions have targeting and attacking bugs like this which makes running with minions feel like I’m running an after school club for bratty teenage girls.

Then again…. the ability to explode on command the next kitten to pop her gum in my ear while twittering on about 1Direction does have it’s appeal. :P

striker.3704

That would make the necromancer too much like the mesmer and really take away from the class. It’s also an easy cop out solution.

A real solution to fixing the problem is to:
1. fix AI
2. make the minion master trait actually decrease the minion active cooldown
3. undo the “transformations kill all minions” crap (at least for elites and moa form)

I’d like Necromancer minions to work properly myself, but honestly given how long it will likely take to make the right fixes……..I’ll take “working reliably” over “unique and distinct”.

They could still have an activated ability that could be fired after summons which would still distinguish them from mesmer illusions.

I honestly don’t know how they are going to fix minions dying instantly upon mode/form change…as I can see why they should die in order to prevent someone from effectively having 15 skills active instead of the 10 we are supposed to be limited to along with everyone else.

Edit: Which means that any other mode or form change will cause this as a consequence….

So either we get stuck with long recharge permanent minions that croak the moment we get Moa’d or otherwise have our skillbar replaced, and then have to wait out a long recharge.

Or we ask for a shorter recharge to bypass the random uselessness periods and give up something to compensate.

Overkillengine.6084:

striker.3704

That would make the necromancer too much like the mesmer and really take away from the class. It’s also an easy cop out solution.

A real solution to fixing the problem is to:
1. fix AI
2. make the minion master trait actually decrease the minion active cooldown
3. undo the “transformations kill all minions” crap (at least for elites and moa form)

I’d like Necromancer minions to work properly myself, but honestly given how long it will likely take to make the right fixes……..I’ll take “working reliably” over “unique and distinct”.

They could still have an activated ability that could be fired after summons which would still distinguish them from mesmer illusions.

I honestly don’t know how they are going to fix minions dying instantly upon mode/form change…as I can see why they should die in order to prevent someone from effectively having 15 skills active instead of the 10 we are supposed to be limited to along with everyone else.

Edit: Which means that any other mode or form change will cause this as a consequence….

So either we get stuck with long recharge permanent minions that croak the moment we get Moa’d or otherwise have our skillbar replaced, and then have to wait out a long recharge.

Or we ask for a shorter recharge to bypass the random uselessness periods and give up something to compensate.

other classes who have pets and a transformation (elementalists and engineers) don’t lose their pets/turrets when they transform. For some odd reason it’s a necromancer only burden.

I’m fine not being able to use minion actives when transformed, but it really seems unfair to the necromancer that he’s the only one to lose everything when transformed.