Guild Wars 2

Good or not, that video shows us that a necro is 2 steps under a lot of classes and a lot of classes are silly balanced and ridiculous.
We are good with company just becouse we have less pressure on us (even if we can do a good 1v1)
Sad story but that’s the point.

You can’t use a terrible necro to show any proof for how necromancers are. I could show a video of a d/d ele jumping off cliffs to his death, is his idiocy anything to the class itself? Of course not.

Bhawb.7408:

You can’t use a terrible necro to show any proof for how necromancers are. I could show a video of a d/d ele jumping off cliffs to his death, is his idiocy anything to the class itself? Of course not.

I agree. I’m telling you, once you get a good Necro vs. a thief like that, then you can discuss. It would be the exact same if I go on my Necro, make a video of fighting an up-leveled thief who doesn’t even know how his class works….
And to the poster who posted a few posts back.
If a thief attacks a necro —> Flesh wurm away, spectral walk away, death shroud + fear then Dark Path to scare them away, fear with staff, chill with staff, place a mark on yourself so it triggers when he’s near, warhorn daze, scepter cripple, dagger immobilize, axe cripple, focus chill… There’s a ton you can do. Deathshroud fear is almost like a stun breaker, unless they have stability. Saying a Necro has no escape mechanisms tells me you haven’t played the class enough. Deathshroud is a really powerful thing, you just need to figure out how it works For example, if you have that trait that makes your marks give you 3.3% life force, you can do this: Fight… then if you are running or in a thick situation (for example having a ton of bleeds and poison on you and nothing to remove them), enter deathshroud, let it take all the damage, then when you get out, throw marks, and in 5 secs death shroud should be at least decently filled, all while you lost almost no actual hp….. Last example… use Dark Path on neutral monsters when escaping and look back to throw your marks on those who chase you.

MethaneGas.8357:

Saying a Necro has no escape mechanisms tells me you haven’t played the class enough.

My necromancer is the class with the most hours logged. My thief is the class with the second most hours logged. I’ve played both plenty. I could explain exactly how I deal with necromancers from a thief perspective, but I get the feeling this would turn into nothing but a theorycrafting debate. I’m going by actual in game experience as both a necro and a thief. I never said I couldn’t beat a thief, but the thief has a lot in his favor over a necromancer.

What I can’t show, is my very first necromancer that I made at launch, which I deleted in a fit of rage at one point. It had another 300-400 hours logged on it. So I actually have more hours than shown. Obviously I regretted my decision to delete my necro, but I’ve played this class plenty.

It’s not the terrible necro who shows us something, but the silly OP thief’s mechanic (or mesmer, or ele d/d etc) compared to a good necro.
Also becouse the video isn’t only about thief vs necro.
Take it easy guys.

Of course you can deal with Necros well as a thief when your second most played class is a thief… Which also means that you do well vs. thieves with your Necro (or at least you should)..
Depends on the build, but a Necro vs. a glass cannon thief shouldn’t have too much trouble. A thief does have quite a bit of stealth and other nonsense but to this date, I can recall only one thief that I lost a 1v1 to —> a thief with a mainhand sword that had barely any stealth but instead had a ton of evade. Anyway… I don’t like when people say things that aren’t necessarily true, with too much certainty, when I know from my own experience that it isn’t really true (not referring to anyone specifically, just in general). I always regret posting here cuz people can be too opinionated and it gets bothersome trying to prove them wrong.

MethaneGas.8357:

a thief with a mainhand sword that had barely any stealth but instead had a ton of evade.

This kind of thief is the absolute worst match up for a necromancer. Not only because of condition removal on stealth, but because the sword 2 skill also removes a condition on use (as well as teleports the user). Worst part of it is, the skill has no cool down and they can repeatedly chain that skill as long as they have the initiative, which isn’t a problem because its very cheap on initiative use.

Kravick.4906:

MethaneGas.8357:

a thief with a mainhand sword that had barely any stealth but instead had a ton of evade.

This kind of thief is the absolute worst match up for a necromancer. Not only because of condition removal on stealth, but because the sword 2 skill also removes a condition on use (as well as teleports the user). Worst part of it is, the skill has no cool down and they can repeatedly chain that skill as long as they have the initiative, which isn’t a problem because its very cheap on initiative use.

Yeah, but that’s cool because thieves have low hitpoints so it all evens out…

PinCushion.7390:

Yeah, but that’s cool because thieves have low hitpoints so it all evens out…

In my experience, it doesn’t, because of Shadow’s Rejuvenation.

Kravick.4906:

MethaneGas.8357:

a thief with a mainhand sword that had barely any stealth but instead had a ton of evade.

This kind of thief is the absolute worst match up for a necromancer. Not only because of condition removal on stealth, but because the sword 2 skill also removes a condition on use (as well as teleports the user). Worst part of it is, the skill has no cool down and they can repeatedly chain that skill as long as they have the initiative, which isn’t a problem because its very cheap on initiative use.

not only that, it also has stun break on it.

no-cooldown stunbreak condition removal teleport…………on a single weapon skill.

Yeah he seemed pretty nasty with the sword… I wondered how he could remove so many conditions. He had a bow as well and spammed skill #3 often, dodges a lot of attacks. Probably one of the best thieves I’ve ever seen.
But I’ll have to agree that the Necro lacks in some departments, or in some ways, but it’s just the playstyle. Necro has no skills that lunge you forwards or directly blink you somewhere… But what it does have is things like Spectral walk and Flesh Wurm, and Dark Path. Those things can achieve almost the same result at Blink (if not a better result), just gonna use a bit more brains :P If you invest all, or most utilities in survival (like most D/D eles, for example), you should be able to roam

Kravick.4906:

PinCushion.7390:

Yeah, but that’s cool because thieves have low hitpoints so it all evens out…

In my experience, it doesn’t, because of Shadow’s Rejuvenation.

I keep forgetting sarcasm doesn’t translate well in text.

PinCushion.7390:

Kravick.4906:

PinCushion.7390:

Yeah, but that’s cool because thieves have low hitpoints so it all evens out…

In my experience, it doesn’t, because of Shadow’s Rejuvenation.

I keep forgetting sarcasm doesn’t translate well in text.

Oh, sorry. Yeah, it really doesn’t. :x

MethaneGas.8357:

Bhawb.7408:

You can’t use a terrible necro to show any proof for how necromancers are. I could show a video of a d/d ele jumping off cliffs to his death, is his idiocy anything to the class itself? Of course not.

I agree. I’m telling you, once you get a good Necro vs. a thief like that, then you can discuss. It would be the exact same if I go on my Necro, make a video of fighting an up-leveled thief who doesn’t even know how his class works….
And to the poster who posted a few posts back.
If a thief attacks a necro —> Flesh wurm away, spectral walk away, death shroud + fear then Dark Path to scare them away, fear with staff, chill with staff, place a mark on yourself so it triggers when he’s near, warhorn daze, scepter cripple, dagger immobilize, axe cripple, focus chill… There’s a ton you can do. Deathshroud fear is almost like a stun breaker, unless they have stability. Saying a Necro has no escape mechanisms tells me you haven’t played the class enough. Deathshroud is a really powerful thing, you just need to figure out how it works For example, if you have that trait that makes your marks give you 3.3% life force, you can do this: Fight… then if you are running or in a thick situation (for example having a ton of bleeds and poison on you and nothing to remove them), enter deathshroud, let it take all the damage, then when you get out, throw marks, and in 5 secs death shroud should be at least decently filled, all while you lost almost no actual hp….. Last example… use Dark Path on neutral monsters when escaping and look back to throw your marks on those who chase you.

I have to disagree with you,

Especially when you say :

“Saying a Necro has no escape mechanisms tells me you haven’t played the class enough.”

Necro has the least escape mechanisms in the game. Even Anet said it. They aren’t meant to escape fights.

Flesh Worn : Our best escape move. Sadly, without cliff or level change, It won’t make you escape a thief. Especially if they don’t open with steal.

Flesh Worn as a 1 1/2 second of cast time. That a very long delay when you have a thief pounding on you.

You use it, they just shadow step to you and resume. You try tu chill/spectral walk. With no cliff it’s no use. They just Heart seeker your kitten off.

Now you have what? Darkpath?

I don’t see how your chill/cripple can save you vs a thief that can leap to you.

Let’s just say you are tanky enought and you escape their burst. Now how do you kill him?

Marks him to death? Stack condition on him?

This kind of them have condition removal on health and on stealth.

And if you try to burst him, he is just going to stealth away with his smoke field combo.

I will ask you something : How do you finish the thief? I see you have 2 utility used for escape, which I used to run in WvW. But how do you burst him fast enought before he reset the fight with heal/stealth.

P.S : All of this is vs a skilled thief. I do kill plenty of thief with my power/blood build. But that kind of thief I feel is a direct counter to us.

Kardiamond.6952:

How do you finish the thief? ….

that kind of thief I feel is a direct counter to us.

You answered your own question. You don’t. He either makes a huge mistake and dies, or doesn’t and wins. His build is designed to actively counter basically everything. He counters conditions with lots of cleansing, counters burst with lots of blind, counters sustain with lots of mobility. Stealth gives him wiggle room to make mistakes and not instantly die. Relatively high damage lets him put his targets on the defensive to keep the pressure off. It’s a solid build, and Thief is just a solid WvW class. It always has been. But in the hands of bad players it dies very easily, because all of those counters are active. They require player decision-making to work well.

So, in essence, his build is a direct counter to almost every build but only if he doesn’t mess up bad enough to hand his opponent an easy win. That said, those decisions are easy decisions. Spot Burst → Use Blind; Take Too Much Damage → Use Stealth & Heal; etc. etc.

Necro, on the other hand, feels more and more like a class of tradeoffs. Every decision is a tradeoff, which makes it more difficult the more I play it. Do I use Putrid Mark as a Finisher or as a Cleanse? Do I take damage in DS and lose LF or do I take it normally and try to heal? Do I use DS for Fear and not have it for tanking burst? Can I afford the DoT for BiP? It’s all tradeoffs, where we lose a bit to win a bit. It makes the class very complex, but also somewhat weak when compared directly to classes where there aren’t as many tradeoffs to weight and the tradeoffs aren’t as expensive.

Kardiamond.6952:

I will ask you something : How do you finish the thief? I see you have 2 utility used for escape, which I used to run in WvW. But how do you burst him fast enought before he reset the fight with heal/stealth.

Like you said, with a power/blood build it’s not that difficult. If he stealths, spam dagger 1 and run around. 300hp/s from Shadow’s Rejuvenation is no match for our dagger auto and you can heal through a decent chunk of the bleeds.

As for condition build, it takes a lot longer. But I think people are overvaluing Shadow’s Embrace. A thief gets to clear two conditions if he stealths with CnD and is stealth spec’d, and you should have bleeds, weakness, chill, poison, and maybe cripple on him. So the chance of him getting the bleed off is 50/50, meanwhile he’s still taking damage from that and poison, which also reduces his healing.

I won’t go on, but I’ll say that since hitting 80 and properly gearing up I’ve never seen a stealth thief exit from stealth with no conditions on him or full health (unless he gets his heal off). But if he goes to heal, you can simply fear him out of it (you did save your DS fear, right?). If he uses Shadow Refuge you can try to fear him out of it with staff (pretty much guaranteed to in a Terror build, btw) or just run away since he has to stay in it.

In my experience – it’s not an automatically lost fight, there’s lots of room for counterplay.

lettucemode.3789:

Kardiamond.6952:

I will ask you something : How do you finish the thief? I see you have 2 utility used for escape, which I used to run in WvW. But how do you burst him fast enought before he reset the fight with heal/stealth.

Like you said, with a power/blood build it’s not that difficult. If he stealths, spam dagger 1 and run around. 300hp/s from Shadow’s Rejuvenation is no match for our dagger auto and you can heal through a decent chunk of the bleeds.

As for condition build, it takes a lot longer. But I think people are overvaluing Shadow’s Embrace. A thief gets to clear two conditions if he stealths with CnD and is stealth spec’d, and you should have bleeds, weakness, chill, poison, and maybe cripple on him. So the chance of him getting the bleed off is 50/50, meanwhile he’s still taking damage from that and poison, which also reduces his healing.

I won’t go on, but I’ll say that since hitting 80 and properly gearing up I’ve never seen a P/D thief exit from stealth with no conditions on him or full health (unless he gets his heal off). But if he goes to heal, you can simply fear him out of it (you did save your DS fear, right?). If he uses Shadow Refuge you can try to fear him out of it with staff (pretty much guaranteed to in a Terror build, btw) or just run away since he has to stay in it.

In my experience – it’s not an automatically lost fight, there’s lots of room for counterplay.

@Lettuce

Been a long time since I had to arg with ya, I remember the good old them before my engineer when we couldn’t agree if our well healing was worth it.

Good old time! :P

But yeah, about daggering him to death.

I feel it’s pretty random, as any descent thief won’t follow a pattern. Yeah if you hit him, you know because of the chain that you are on him. The issue? They have a many direction they can go.

If you miss the hit, like if you hit in a direction they didn’t go, you just missed them. They will come back with a lot more HP, maybe kite you a bit with short bow. And retry the same thing again.

It’s like a random chance of holding to him each time. Especiall if they have a dodge available.

And if you watch the previous video, once they are stealthed, they can perma stealth over and over if they don’t hit you. And it’s pretty hard to stop them from doing so.

I still feel like that kind of build is directly countering us. Especially with the direct damage they can dish.

I’ve demolished a lot of thieves in 1v1, although I can’t say for certain that they were “good” (I don’t know what makes thieves good). The key for me is that when I see them, I start burning a lot of CC, my full skill chain ends up being Dark Pact→Locust Swarm→Wail of Doom→auto attack (I’m using minions, so at the latest I get aggro here)→Charge→Explode Bone Fiends→Rigor Mortis→swap weapons→Unholy Feast→Ghastly Claws. Now, obviously any thief with half a brain would pop a stun breaker (they are usually pretty dang surprised to see the burst so it will still hit to half health), and if they don’t then at the end of that they are dead. I keep Doom for the obvious burst attempt they are going to try at the end of their stealth to even the odds, and I still have a lot of my important CDs up, and bone minions will be back up pretty soon.

All that to say, you can handle thieves, but like every single other class, it depends on the two builds, the two players skill, and then extra factors (like I always make sure to get the jump on them).

I agree with most of the remaining posts here, but I will continue to come back to the following:

Every build on every class should have some basic counter/counter play from another class. Too many mesmer (shatter), thief, and ele (the only DD one they have that works), really have no viable counters in WvW.

Yes you can beat them, no it is not an automatic loss, but you start the fight at a disadvantage no matter your build with a necro, and that is a problem. This will continue to be the case until they go work on the talent trees of the favored classes, and make them more like the necro. If you want to be amazing at shattering, you should have to make choices in your talent tree, not just know you are fine with 30 points in that tree.

Getting self shatter is a given, since it is at the end of the tree you wanted to be in already. Getting confusion on shatter is a given, since it is already on the way as a minor trait. That is not the way talent trees should work, unless EVERYONE has talent trees that work that way.

If you want wells that explode people great, you can’t just throw 30 points into spite and get power/wells/cooldowns/etc. You have to spread your points out. If you want to blow people up with clones in a sword/X shatter build, that isn’t the case.

They need to nerf the insanely overplayed builds, and buff the less popular ones to compensate, for all the overplayed classes. Lucky for us, the necro community is pretty well spread power/condition. Its growing pains for Anet, but they need to bite that bullet and get to some serious balancing.

Kardiamond.6952:

Been a long time since I had to arg with ya, I remember the good old them before my engineer when we couldn’t agree if our well healing was worth it.

Good old time! :P

But yeah, about daggering him to death.

I feel it’s pretty random, as any descent thief won’t follow a pattern. Yeah if you hit him, you know because of the chain that you are on him. The issue? They have a many direction they can go.

If you miss the hit, like if you hit in a direction they didn’t go, you just missed them. They will come back with a lot more HP, maybe kite you a bit with short bow. And retry the same thing again.

It’s like a random chance of holding to him each time. Especiall if they have a dodge available.

And if you watch the previous video, once they are stealthed, they can perma stealth over and over if they don’t hit you. And it’s pretty hard to stop them from doing so.

I still feel like that kind of build is directly countering us. Especially with the direct damage they can dish.

Yea, good times. And I did switch from Well of Blood soon after that conversation :-)

I agree, daggering a stealthed thief is not reliable and I made it sound like it was. I think it’s still a valid option against a backstab thief, since you know they are either going to try to backstab or CnD again. Otherwise yea, not worth it, you are correct.

I don’t think it’s difficult to stop a thief from permastealthing in a 1v1 if you know he’s doing it and dodge at the right time, or cripple and run in a straight line. If a thief is terrorizing a group of people then yes, it’s pretty difficult.

I don’t think that any one profession counters another profession or build in this game. I think that certain builds counter certain other builds and that is okay, for example, backstab thieves avoid guardians 1v1 like the plague. I will say that I think this build/counterbuild idea is not as present in the thief/necro matchup, and that a stealth build is the safest, most reliable build against a necromancer, and the safest builds/strats are generally the most popular in any game. But I stop short of calling it a counter to us entirely.

Also I agree with everything in Rennoko’s last post.

this isn’t a necro vs thief post. This is 1vX.

also agree with rennoko

I agree with ya Lettuce.

But I don’t know why we went to talk about thief.

OP was asking if we were viable in 1 vs X.

Last days I ad some fight in sPvP when outnumbered.

with a 30/0/10/30/0 build in knight gear and Wells/locus as utility, I could survive the initiale burst from both class, and dish some damage.

The issue is I couldn’t finish them off. Lacking the mobility, it’s hard to keep up, while someone else is bashing on you. Dark path is useful, but it unreliable when people aren’t escaping in straight line with some distance.

I was also lacking the final burst. Once I used my wells, my DPS mainly come from Dagger/focus. And it’s not a crazy burt, it’s a descent substained damage.

I had good fight, and I learned that Locus activate in group fight is really strong. It’s nearly a second main heal without the condition part.

But it’s really hard to finish someone, especially since we don’t have much safe stomp except a 30 points trait.

Kardiamond.6952:

I agree with ya Lettuce.

But I don’t know why we went to talk about thief.

OP was asking if we were viable in 1 vs X.

Last days I ad some fight in sPvP when outnumbered.

with a 30/0/10/30/0 build in knight gear and Wells/locus as utility, I could survive the initiale burst from both class, and dish some damage.

The issue is I couldn’t finish them off. Lacking the mobility, it’s hard to keep up, while someone else is bashing on you. Dark path is useful, but it unreliable when people aren’t escaping in straight line with some distance.

I was also lacking the final burst. Once I used my wells, my DPS mainly come from Dagger/focus. And it’s not a crazy burt, it’s a descent substained damage.

I had good fight, and I learned that Locus activate in group fight is really strong. It’s nearly a second main heal without the condition part.

But it’s really hard to finish someone, especially since we don’t have much safe stomp except a 30 points trait.

That´s why from my point of view a 1vsX built with a necro is only possible in wvw, in spvp you need to sacrife too much to be able to finish people and combine decent defense with bursting potential.

In WvW it´s easier to balance that out since the greater number of raw stats you can get, as example you can specc very defensively and then use berserker equip to still have a great burst. While in sPvP, if you want to be able to burst, then you have to built your character around that.

In comparison, as a mesmer in sPvP, the only other class that I played enough to call my skill with it decently, you can just go all offensiv with both gear and traits and then balance everything out with utilitys, like blink, portal, stealth and group stealth, with that you´re able to finish downed players with either F4 shatter, stealth stomp or portal stomp (beginn stomping drop portal portal away and then portal back when the cast is about to be finished). You´re able to burst 66% health of enemys down in an instant, then you can just swith to staff, get chaos armor up and port away, while if you want to achieve that kind of burst with a necro, you have to go burst all the way, like in khalifas d/d built, where you don´t have any way to finish downed players except dropping wells on top of them, but you also need them to burst.

Btw, I know that locus signet and swiftness doesn´t stack, but is it like that for all of our traits that enhance movement speed, too, and is movement speed trough that capped at 133%?

Acaro.4067:

Btw, I know that locus signet and swiftness doesn´t stack, but is it like that for all of our traits that enhance movement speed, too, and is movement speed trough that capped at 133%?

Yes. It’s capped for everyone except for Engineers under very special circumstances at 133%.

PinCushion.7390:

Acaro.4067:

Btw, I know that locus signet and swiftness doesn´t stack, but is it like that for all of our traits that enhance movement speed, too, and is movement speed trough that capped at 133%?

Yes. It’s capped for everyone except for Engineers under very special circumstances at 133%.

I could have sworn there was something with thieves that allowed them to break the 133% rule as well with movement, but it has been some time since I looked into it.

A quick trip to the wiki revealed: Fleet Shadow – Move 50% faster while in stealth.

I believe that at one point (possibly not anymore), this allowed 150% while in stealth.

Rennoko.5731:

PinCushion.7390:

Acaro.4067:

Btw, I know that locus signet and swiftness doesn´t stack, but is it like that for all of our traits that enhance movement speed, too, and is movement speed trough that capped at 133%?

Yes. It’s capped for everyone except for Engineers under very special circumstances at 133%.

I could have sworn there was something with thieves that allowed them to break the 133% rule as well with movement, but it has been some time since I looked into it.

A quick trip to the wiki revealed: Fleet Shadow – Move 50% faster while in stealth.

I believe that at one point (possibly not anymore), this allowed 150% while in stealth.

Might be. I know next to nothing about Thieves, which is why I don’t get mad when they kill me.

1vX necro video has been up for some time. I roam solo or in partial/single groups almost exclusively and never have issues. I dont waste time recording though, so the signature video is from a single night, not just a collection of “best hits”.

Talentless.5708:

1vX necro video has been up for some time. I roam solo or in partial/single groups almost exclusively and never have issues. I dont waste time recording though, so the signature video is from a single night, not just a collection of “best hits”.

I don’t know how you could say you never have issues. Since the patch changes to WvW, both tier 3 and tier 4 have become massive zerg fests where people want to rank up, and have basically given up on roaming around. Yes I can get an occasional fight that is entertaining, but normally it is a group of no less than 15-20.

When I am on my mesmer w/ my ele friends its fine, but not when I am on my necro.

Here is hoping for changes to WvW to discourage that massive zerg ball mentality. To bad all indications are they plan to keep pushing that to the top.

WvW’s meta is just in change right now. When you get intelligent groups that realize sending 20 people to cap a supply camp is far too many resources for something 4 people could easily do (while essentially stealthed due to not showing up as fighting on the map, unless they changed that), then it will stabilize out with small groups showing up again. But I don’t think solo roaming was ever intended in WvW, it doesn’t really do anything for the “greater good”, its just fun.

@Talentless

Are would be curious to see those 1vsX. If you happen to record them I would love to watch them!

I would love to be proven wrong. Due to my necro pause, I’m slowly learning back it’s play style. So I’m looking to learn how to 1vsX with necro.

Kardiamond.6952:

I have to disagree with you,

Especially when you say :

“Saying a Necro has no escape mechanisms tells me you haven’t played the class enough.”

Necro has the least escape mechanisms in the game. Even Anet said it. They aren’t meant to escape fights.

Flesh Worn : Our best escape move. Sadly, without cliff or level change, It won’t make you escape a thief. Especially if they don’t open with steal.

Flesh Worn as a 1 1/2 second of cast time. That a very long delay when you have a thief pounding on you.

You use it, they just shadow step to you and resume. You try tu chill/spectral walk. With no cliff it’s no use. They just Heart seeker your kitten off.

Now you have what? Darkpath?

I don’t see how your chill/cripple can save you vs a thief that can leap to you.

Let’s just say you are tanky enought and you escape their burst. Now how do you kill him?

Marks him to death? Stack condition on him?

This kind of them have condition removal on health and on stealth.

And if you try to burst him, he is just going to stealth away with his smoke field combo.

---

I will ask you something : How do you finish the thief? I see you have 2 utility used for escape, which I used to run in WvW. But how do you burst him fast enought before he reset the fight with heal/stealth.

P.S : All of this is vs a skilled thief. I do kill plenty of thief with my power/blood build. But that kind of thief I feel is a direct counter to us.

You don’t use flesh wurm to cast it somewhere THEN teleport, you place it well behind the battle (once you get to know the good places), then all you need to do is use it again and you will instantly teleport backwards. Same with spectral walk, you don’t need a cliff for it to work, you can use it, run in a straight path and fight along the way, when you see the thief jumping on you (or any other trouble that’s coming along your way), quickly use it again to teleport back while you pop your marks from a safe distance. Also, using mark #5 on yourself is really powerful against a backstab thief, as he would be feared when he tried to use Heartseeker. While feared, you drop a few more marks, chills or whatever else you can. Also really powerful to throw all your things while they are feared, followed by deathshour fear + Dark path, followed by warhorn daze, for example. If you can quickly pull it off, a glass cannon would most likely be so near death they would run. (Although it does kitten me off when they get away and come back with a lot of health back. To prevent this, drop random marks in the path that the thief is most likely to go in. If the mark triggers, the thief is there and you just did some dmg)

In WvW, often times it does feel like enemies somehow just manage to catch up to me, but that’s because they have skills that leap them forwards, etc. This is not a problem if there’s only a few enemies stacked together, or only one enemy because you can use your weapon skills to slow em down. It only gets to be a problem when there’s several enemies because attacking them puts you in fight mode, and you run slower while the enemies that you didn’t hit still run faster. Last night I played Isle of Janthir Borderlands and while roaming, died 0 times. I got attacked by a guild mates who were all thieves with guns, and what did I do? Well first… I panicked. Then I went into plague to buy me some time to figure out what I’ll do… then I went out of plague, used Spectral walk, jumped in water as I entered death shroud (had only about 5k HP left), swam for a bit, then used Spectral Walk again and was safe from harm. You can escape well enough with certain builds. While I do see some things that the Necro lacks, I disagree with my whole heart (hee hee) that the class is underpowered, it’s just that a lot of people can’t play it too well because it’s …. a little different. (I do hope that we get some kind of leap at some point though, maybe with a future expansion or something)

@MethaneGas.8357

If you compare those escape mecanism to any other class, It seems like they are weaker. Only the Flesh Worm is really good, but it still need to be precasted, or be lucky enought to cast it on a cliff. 1 1/2 second is so long. I personally feel like summon have a too long casting time.

The issue I have in my roaming in T5, is it got a lot zergy since last patch, and because we used to be a T8 server.

In T8 it was a lot less zergy, I could roam with my necro without being zerged.

Now I can’t roam for 5 minute before running into a zerg. And zerg hunting with a necromancer is nearly impossible.

With my DD Elem, my engineer and even my Ranger, I can outrun most Zerg. Not witha necro. Spectral walk and Worm don’t out run people. They only misplace you. Useful if there is cliff, not so if there is a zerg behind you.

Leaping skills are one of the issue I have yeah. Seems like premade group like to focus hard on the necro behind the group. They know we can be annoying if left alone, so they pressure us hard. And leaper are a pain if you don’t have plague elite Up.

You would cast Flesh Wurm instantly, and it would break a stun… It’s not a good idea to use it to get faster to a place (only when it’s an emergency). A good way to use it, is, like i said earlier, cast it BEFORE combat. Then if something goes bad, you can INSTANTLY teleport back, break a stun, and get 10% life force. You can also combine flesh wurm and spectral walk… use spectral walk, then flesh wurm, run for a bit, then use spectral walk again, which will teleport you ALL the way back. You can also combine these with Dark Path… Cast flesh wurm while behind the enemy that chases you, turn to them, use Dark Path, then flesh worm… You will teleport behind the target and they will probably wonder wth happened. There’s a ton you can do…
And the game is not supposed to be balanced around 1vs1s anyway. A thief may excel at that, but in the grand scheme of things, a glass cannon can die in a heart beat if focused well. Everything has its trade offs

Kardiamond.6952:

@MethaneGas.8357

If you compare those escape mecanism to any other class, It seems like they are weaker. Only the Flesh Worm is really good, but it still need to be precasted, or be lucky enought to cast it on a cliff. 1 1/2 second is so long. I personally feel like summon have a too long casting time.

The issue I have in my roaming in T5, is it got a lot zergy since last patch, and because we used to be a T8 server.

In T8 it was a lot less zergy, I could roam with my necro without being zerged.

Now I can’t roam for 5 minute before running into a zerg. And zerg hunting with a necromancer is nearly impossible.

With my DD Elem, my engineer and even my Ranger, I can outrun most Zerg. Not witha necro. Spectral walk and Worm don’t out run people. They only misplace you. Useful if there is cliff, not so if there is a zerg behind you.

Leaping skills are one of the issue I have yeah. Seems like premade group like to focus hard on the necro behind the group. They know we can be annoying if left alone, so they pressure us hard. And leaper are a pain if you don’t have plague elite Up.

Please watch one of my two videos. Back to back days, where you can learn how to stay alive in WvW.

Talentless.5708:

Kardiamond.6952:

@MethaneGas.8357

If you compare those escape mecanism to any other class, It seems like they are weaker. Only the Flesh Worm is really good, but it still need to be precasted, or be lucky enought to cast it on a cliff. 1 1/2 second is so long. I personally feel like summon have a too long casting time.

The issue I have in my roaming in T5, is it got a lot zergy since last patch, and because we used to be a T8 server.

In T8 it was a lot less zergy, I could roam with my necro without being zerged.

Now I can’t roam for 5 minute before running into a zerg. And zerg hunting with a necromancer is nearly impossible.

With my DD Elem, my engineer and even my Ranger, I can outrun most Zerg. Not witha necro. Spectral walk and Worm don’t out run people. They only misplace you. Useful if there is cliff, not so if there is a zerg behind you.

Leaping skills are one of the issue I have yeah. Seems like premade group like to focus hard on the necro behind the group. They know we can be annoying if left alone, so they pressure us hard. And leaper are a pain if you don’t have plague elite Up.

Please watch one of my two videos. Back to back days, where you can learn how to stay alive in WvW.

One cool thing I noticed from your video that I never knew. Casting Locust Swarm, then immediately using Lich Form, makes the swarm hit hard. I never knew you could do that, and just assumed that Locust would drop if you went into Lich.

PinCushion.7390:

Talentless.5708:

Kardiamond.6952:

@MethaneGas.8357

If you compare those escape mecanism to any other class, It seems like they are weaker. Only the Flesh Worm is really good, but it still need to be precasted, or be lucky enought to cast it on a cliff. 1 1/2 second is so long. I personally feel like summon have a too long casting time.

The issue I have in my roaming in T5, is it got a lot zergy since last patch, and because we used to be a T8 server.

In T8 it was a lot less zergy, I could roam with my necro without being zerged.

Now I can’t roam for 5 minute before running into a zerg. And zerg hunting with a necromancer is nearly impossible.

With my DD Elem, my engineer and even my Ranger, I can outrun most Zerg. Not witha necro. Spectral walk and Worm don’t out run people. They only misplace you. Useful if there is cliff, not so if there is a zerg behind you.

Leaping skills are one of the issue I have yeah. Seems like premade group like to focus hard on the necro behind the group. They know we can be annoying if left alone, so they pressure us hard. And leaper are a pain if you don’t have plague elite Up.

Please watch one of my two videos. Back to back days, where you can learn how to stay alive in WvW.

One cool thing I noticed from your video that I never knew. Casting Locust Swarm, then immediately using Lich Form, makes the swarm hit hard. I never knew you could do that, and just assumed that Locust would drop if you went into Lich.

Yeah, admittedly the opponents that night werent very good, so I have been trying to get some more entertaining fights… just always forget to hit record. Also be sure you either use your warhorn or spectral walk so you retain speed during lich.

Locust is also quite important for damage reduction/life siphon, since you gain the same amount per hit regardless of whether the damage is the swarm or your dagger auto attack. 5 enemies in swarm = decent hp recovery/survivability boost.