Guild Wars 2

Hello

I have played elementalist for about one year in wvw. Now i want change classes so i chose necromancer.
A lot of my figth is versus big group like 30vs30 or 50vs50

I Created this build but I don’t know if it’s good (power or condition ? ):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNBmODbkjGapxaaw3G4wxBuQRTj24ZhtZA0CzxusXCA-TVCEQBG4KA0GdDA4BAQgDCATUWlj9HaiSlJp+zGVCCA-w

What do you suggest ?
Thanks

Lich form is pretty bad since there are so many reflects on the field these days, you’ll end up downing yourself with it.

Your blood magic line is all wrong, should be middle, bottom top.

Here is my build: http://asphyxia.tv/wvw-back-line-necromancer-build/

Your mix of gear isn’t necessary either, full zerk on necro is perfectly acceptable and easy to survive with.

your build looks alright to me, if you are in a group and have a lot of fury uptime you could probably drop a little crit chance for some more survivability. as for the traits in blood your probably better off taking ritual of life for hot ressing, and vampiric aura to help combat retal for your party. transfusion depends on how much support you want to bring to the group. otherwise well cooldown would be best

Josh XT.6053:

Your blood magic line is all wrong, should be middle, bottom top.

He definitely should not use Quickening Thirst.
Even is he was using a dagger (which he shouldn’t and neither should you), the trait gives you movement speed that you don’t need because zergs and/or your warhorn give you perma swiftness, and it reduces the cooldowns of skills that you’re never going to use in zergs anyway (#2+3) or shouldn’t use (#4+5) because a warhorn is better.

I have a few suggestions

Drop Spectral Wall. Add Well of Power. Lich, golem, and Plague Form all have different uses so be prepared to swap. Trait horn, or not, depending on extra swiftness needed. Trait wells, Vampiric Rituals and Ritual of Life, if you are planning to run with allies. Rest seems pretty good. Nice job on it.

flow.6043:

Josh XT.6053:

Your blood magic line is all wrong, should be middle, bottom top.

He definitely should not use Quickening Thirst.
Even is he was using a dagger (which he shouldn’t and neither should you), the trait gives you movement speed that you don’t need because zergs and/or your warhorn give you perma swiftness, and it reduces the cooldowns of skills that you’re never going to use in zergs anyway (#2+3) or shouldn’t use (#4+5) because a warhorn is better.

If you’re on top of your zerg at all times, you’re doing it wrong.

Quickening Thirst reduces cooldown on dagger skills as well as gives the movement speed. Axe/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger are both pretty good for roaming and zerging as long as you also run Staff for the range AOE (for zerging that is, I don’t run staff for roaming). I never cared for warhorn, its clunky and really uneffective most of the time. Having an AOE blind and an AOE weakness from offhand dagger is better in my opinion.

If you’re never using 4 or 5 on your offhand, then why do you even run an offhand? lol. I have about 2000 hours on necromancer where I played it with zerg busting groups. If you’re not utilizing every tool as your disposal, you’re doing it wrong.

Josh XT.6053:

Quickening Thirst reduces cooldown on dagger skills as well as gives the movement speed.

Like I said, +25% movement speed is pointless when you have a zerg and a warhorn for perma swiftness.

Josh XT.6053:

If you’re never using 4 or 5 on your offhand, then why do you even run an offhand?

You have the staff and wells for ranged fights and your warhorn and Shroud for crowd surfing, simple as that.

Josh XT.6053:

Having an AOE blind and an AOE weakness from offhand dagger is better in my opinion.

Blindness and weakness on 3 or 5 people isn’t going to do anything in a high frequency cleansing environment like zerg fights.

Josh XT.6053:

I don’t run staff for roaming.

I never cared for warhorn, its clunky and really uneffective most of the time.

What?! Blasphemy! I can’t even…

flow.6043:

Josh XT.6053:

Quickening Thirst reduces cooldown on dagger skills as well as gives the movement speed.

Like I said, +25% movement speed is pointless when you have a zerg and a warhorn for perma swiftness.

Using warhorn causes you to lose an AOE blind and AOE weakness, and you run that for what reason?

flow.6043:

Josh XT.6053:

If you’re never using 4 or 5 on your offhand, then why do you even run an offhand?

You have the staff and wells for ranged fights and your warhorn and Shroud for crowd surfing, simple as that.

So doing less things in combat is fine with you then? I personally like to get the most out of the class, you’re not if you’re using warhorn.

flow.6043:

Josh XT.6053:

Having an AOE blind and an AOE weakness from offhand dagger is better in my opinion.

Blindness and weakness on 3 or 5 people isn’t going to do anything in a high frequency cleansing environment like zerg fights.

EVERYTHING helps. That is more conditions that need cleared on the field which is more important than you think.

flow.6043:

Josh XT.6053:

I don’t run staff for roaming.

I never cared for warhorn, its clunky and really uneffective most of the time.

What?! Blasphemy! I can’t even…

Really questioning what your knowledge of necro is lol. I have around 2000 hours of all WvW time on Necro, most of which was either roaming, GvG or zerg busting with groups whos names don’t matter anymore these days since most of them are long gone.

Warhorn isn’t good, like not even a little bit. The Daze seems to fail more often than not and the WH5 is weak, does little damage and is generally not effective.

Josh XT.6053:

Really questioning what your knowledge of necro is lol.

Warhorn isn’t good, like not even a little bit. The Daze seems to fail more often than not and the WH5 is weak, does little damage and is generally not effective.

The irony…

It’s a pity we’re not both EU or NA. I’d just show you how effective it is by beating you with staff and warhorn 10/10 times :P

flow.6043:

Josh XT.6053:

Really questioning what your knowledge of necro is lol.

Warhorn isn’t good, like not even a little bit. The Daze seems to fail more often than not and the WH5 is weak, does little damage and is generally not effective.

The irony…

It’s a pity we’re not both EU or NA. I’d just show you how effective it is by beating you with staff and warhorn 10/10 times :P

Unfortunate indeed, you’d never ever win a 1v1 against me lol.

And feel free to see my twitch stream in my forum signature. You won’t see any recent Necro footage because I’ve been playing my Ele and Guardian a lot more recently. Its a pretty major rarity for me to lose a 1v1.

>Your mix of gear isn’t necessary either, full zerk on
>necro is perfectly acceptable and easy to survive with.

well you never took a 5 hammer from a zerk revenant then, in zerk this is one shot and i meet so many revenant that do more damage than our wells just by spamming 3/5 hammer that i really felt it (and no, in large groups you cannot dodge them each time)

>Warhorn isn’t good, like not even a little bit. The
>Daze seems to fail more often than not and the WH5
>is weak, does little damage and is generally not
>effective.

for the daze i agree most of the time it fails for strange reason but for the 5 it is useless…unless traited with the vampiric line with each hit vampiric heal and dmg ,this is quite a good skill to charge you health and your DS, 5 WH then DS and rampage in the melee is a good combo imho.

@Flow: I’ve no idea whether you or Josh XT is the better necro, BUT … he’s posted a build that noobs like me can at least try (the ones I’ve found on metabattle don’t seem that good). How about showing the build you’d use (if you add they WHYs and HOWs as well, that’d be really helpful!)?

Aliessil.4062:

@Flow: I’ve no idea whether you or Josh XT is the better necro, BUT … he’s posted a build that noobs like me can at least try (the ones I’ve found on metabattle don’t seem that good). How about showing the build you’d use (if you add they WHYs and HOWs as well, that’d be really helpful!)?

If I had to make a build designed for zerging it would probably look like this.
Generally speaking, any combination of Spite/Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper would do fine, but if you consider yourself to be a noob I’d definitely go with Reaper because RS is a lot easier to pull off than DS.

You can also take a look at my personal roaming build, but I really wouldn’t recommend it to new or casual players.

Focus is a viable alternative to warhorn for zerging and flat out better if your group provides enough swiftness.
Reaper should not be used in a zerging build. The only useful thing in there is RS2 for additional mobility but it comes with a significant loss of ranged damage. Use SR(all middle) instead.
Always use Vampiric Presence over Banshee’s Wail if you are running with any kind of group. Lifesteal on every attack is far too strong to ignore.
Other than that, drop the marauders. You are getting barely any survivability(3k HP is nothing unless you are using a low HP base class) benefit out of it while also losing damage, even with the vit→ferocity oil. Not a tradeoff that’s worth it in my opinion.

CCLegion.5936:

Focus is a viable alternative to warhorn for zerging and flat out better if your group provides enough swiftness.
Reaper should not be used in a zerging build. The only useful thing in there is RS2 for additional mobility but it comes with a significant loss of ranged damage.

If your approach is to be as far away from the action as possible, then yes, I agree.
However, warhorn isn’t just about swiftness, just like RS isn’t about the occasional low range mobility skill.
Just don’t be a chicken and jump straight into the meat grinder when the opportunity presents itself. RS’s stability, Locust Swarm, the protection from wells and all the vamp procs will sustain you for quite a while. And in that case focus and/or DS just can’t keep up.

CCLegion.5936:

Use SR(all middle) instead.

Like I said, any combo of Spite – BM – SR – Reaper is ok. Personally, I think the only incentive in SR for zerging are unblockable marks. The rest are either negligable damage buffs or improved life force regen that is less valuable than the sustain you’d get from Blighter’s Boon.

CCLegion.5936:

Always use Vampiric Presence over Banshee’s Wail if you are running with any kind of group. Lifesteal on every attack is far too strong to ignore.

I would agree if you were the only source of Vampiric Aura in your group or zerg. However, usually there are a million other necros with VP anyway. I do switch sometimes when I notice a lack of it, but mostly I’d just be overstacking with an already redundant amount of Vamp Auras. So that’s why I usually have Banshee’s Wail.

CCLegion.5936:

Other than that, drop the marauders. You are getting barely any survivability(3k HP is nothing unless you are using a low HP base class) benefit out of it while also losing damage, even with the vit->ferocity oil. Not a tradeoff that’s worth it in my opinion.

Well… any extra vitality is still better than no vitality, it is still the best defensive stat for necros afterall. But you’re misunderstanding the point of adding Marauder. There’s only a loss of damage compared to full zerker when you’re not overstacking crit chance, like it would be the case for a core necro build with Deathly Perception. In this case you could even mix in a lot of Valkyrie gear. However, without DP or Decimate Defenses you have to rely on a high base crit chance so you’re pushed close to 100% with Spotter and fury. Of course, you could substitute Assassine stats as well, but then you’d lose even more power without the extra hp and life force.

Alright, lets go through this.
I’m not saying that you cannot use Reaper in zergs. I’m saying that people shouldn’t because the roles it can fill are better filled by other classes or its own base form.
The entire point of bringing necros along is to play the role of magical artillery and generate downs to exploit, something which Reaper is worse at compared to necro, due to its lack of Life Blast.
So why should I go Reaper and jump into the meat grinder when I can fulfill my own role more efficiently by staying out of both melee and the Reaper traitline?

The lifesteal part, I’ll give you that one. Heavily depends on group though so I’d recommend to check first. In any case, VP takes priority if it’s not already provided by others.

I disagree about it being the best defensive stat for necro. For solo/duo roaming or sPvP, alright. But once you go into havoc or above, any point in vitality could be a point better spent in toughness unless you are playing a low HP base class. It does not amplify heals the same way toughness does, making it weaker past engagement. It’s also weaker against power damage in general, even with the extra life force generation it offers.
Basically, you are working with less EHP and lower recovery vs power. In exchange, you get increased EHP vs conditions. But why take it for that when a single guardian or mesmer can basically make a 5 man group immune to conditions in the first place?
It does have the advantage of being available in more offensive stat sets(marauder, valk) compared to toughness(cavalier, knight) but that’s about it.

We clearly have different opinions about what roles necros can or should have.

Also, I don’t want to start another toughness vs vitality debate, but everything you said about EHP was wrong. Vitality is always better.

you could try reaper frontline. its pretty fun.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWRnMbCN3gVbC20A0biliBjaIMFKCx7wh4SMKA8tKAA-TVCDAB6r+DAPAgJuEASp8AMlgqrLoKlY0v/ABHBASBIoWL-w
something along those lines. dont listen to people telling you to go full zerk with death shroud. thats from a 2 year old meta and is no longer applicable. it still works, but the whole point of that style was to pin people down with immob, and resistance negates that completely, so.

Reaper Shroud gives you so much better mobility, personal stab, much harder melee cleaves, more combo finishers, and heck even a nice hard cc. The real question is why wouldn’t you use Reaper in WvW. This is the build I run for WvW ZvZ, it’s a mid-line hard trucking, highly mobile build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWRnc0Albi10Au0Ac4gFcBDqNFAaBxVxvYZkKN0GeWA-TVSBAB6pLIiLAwiKBtU9HAOEA/v/wCPAAsU+dxRAgUADMGA-w

I do make a few changes according to situations. So if I’m not in a guild group or I see our comp’s lacking perma swiftness & might, I’ll swap to an armor set with strength runes, and I’ll swap out Greatsword with Dagger/Warhorn.

If I need better sustain for those 3-way smc omni blob battles where your skills are often lagged, I swap to an armor set with strength runes and change traits to use Blighter’s Boon & Chilling Victory for added sustain.

I do chuckle whenever I see OG necros trying to blast me with lifeblast. Lifeblast tickles, it’s slow, it’s outdated, and you are an immobile slow crawling class that’s just asking to get rolled over in this new post-HoT meta where mobility is king. OG necros are my fav targets to single out, you just RS 2 leap in, pop personal stab (RS 3), soul spiral cleave it up while spreading poison and whirl blasting, pop fear, then finish the poor necro off with RS 5. It’s almost not fair. The whole death shroud 5 -> 4 rotation is so outdated, and single target fear is outmatched by Reaper Shroud’s aoe fear and hard stun.

Your mileage will vary. Just know that it doesn’t matter the builds people link to you. You have to be able to play that build. So this build I linked, if you aren’t good at knowing when to leap in, cleave it up, and leap out before things get too hot, then you’ll have a difficult time running this build. If you don’t know when to drop shroud to Gravedigger cleave for 12-15k, then you’ll have a hard time and likely get caught out of shroud often and bombed down. If you follow a pin that never pushes and always pirateships, then you’ll probably find this build lackluster.

This build excels when run with a commander or guild raid that will push and make hits. You should be in a group with a rev that’ll give you perma might, protection, fury, swiftness, and resistance during combat.

Happy necroing, good luck.

Edit: Wanting to add this real quick. Necros were never a ranged bomb class. We’ve always been an under 900 range class because that’s the range of our well bombs. When it comes to shroud, all shroud attacks work best at under 600 range, this includes death shroud. So in this post-HoT meta, anything 900 range and beyond belongs to Revs. Revs have much harder ranged bombs than we do. Their Hammer 1, 2, and 5 are formidable at 1200 range. Their hammer 3 can pop our marks without ever being in danger, so our marks are for the most part useless. So when it comes to truly ranged bombs, ranged pressure, and finishing ranged downies, revs often do a much better job at range than necros can ever dream of.

Why be a sub optimal class and play OG Necro? When you could play Reaper and be one of the hardest melee cleaving class that excels at sub-600 range. Just saying

Oh and before anybody asks, since OP is talking about ZvZ, I’m also only responding about ZvZ. WvW ZvZ and roaming/havoc grouping are two completely different beasts.