Guild Wars 2

We all do, but that doesn’t mean that every single necromancer, or rather, every person who has a necromancer in their character slot will agree, nor even listen to me, and I understand.

Nevertheless, I will speak because why not. The only way to truly get the attention necromancers need is to stop playing your necromancer character and play another class. Think about it: you are charged with observing the player base and notice a significant drop of a certain class being used. While solutions won’t come instantaneously, a message is sent, a message far more clear than posting on this forum.

Alternatively, and probably more fun, is to gather up necromancers all over your server and go on strike. Very less likely to work, but it’ll probably be more fun. imagine lions arch filled with necromancers complaining in 6 different servers.

Will you all agree/listen to what i am saying? No, but meh, as someone who loves playing as necromancers, and i mean REAL necromancers like diablo 2’s necromancer and phantom brave, then I can’t help but voice concern. Do not argue against one another.

“We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools.” ~ Martin Luther King Jr.

Should have made this post Monday, would have been perfect.

I actually rolled a warrior due to this… Holy kittenmilk it’s so much easier to play. PVE is 10x easier than it already was, pvp is drastically more simple… That being said, hard to stop playing the only class I really like.

I hear ya bro, but it may prove to have benefits.

I’m playing my mesmer alot more often than my necromancer at the moment and really enjoying it.

must say it is a nice change of pace to own warriors on almost every encounter where their CC chain doent connect too well and also be able to escape with stealth+blink+phase retreat. my only discomfort with it is unlike my necromancer who got guard buffs unlocked plus AC and cata masterys my mesmer is actually rank 25 and cant offer much to the team with no maxed out masterys >.>
the EOTM WvW update should remedy that hopefully

As long as I’m still enjoying the game and my Necromancer, keep playing it. They won’t suddenly see that everyone stopped playing Necros and BOOM realize that we aren’t happy with balance.

They do realize we aren’t happy, and in general they understand what we aren’t happy about. That doesn’t mean they can fix it over coffee break tomorrow, or even that they agree with you, but they do know where the community stands on most large issues.

Bhawb.7408:

As long as I’m still enjoying the game and my Necromancer, keep playing it. They won’t suddenly see that everyone stopped playing Necros and BOOM realize that we aren’t happy with balance.

They do realize we aren’t happy, and in general they understand what we aren’t happy about. That doesn’t mean they can fix it over coffee break tomorrow, or even that they agree with you, but they do know where the community stands on most large issues.

And they think the community is wrong. From what I’ve heard from one of my friends who does testing for the game, they don’t seem to care too much about what we think, and worse then that they seem to think that we are completely wrong on all accounts that don’t agree with their “vision”.

You forgot to define what problem you were addressing in your OP.

Lily.1935:

Bhawb.7408:

As long as I’m still enjoying the game and my Necromancer, keep playing it. They won’t suddenly see that everyone stopped playing Necros and BOOM realize that we aren’t happy with balance.

They do realize we aren’t happy, and in general they understand what we aren’t happy about. That doesn’t mean they can fix it over coffee break tomorrow, or even that they agree with you, but they do know where the community stands on most large issues.

And they think the community is wrong. From what I’ve heard from one of my friends who does testing for the game, they don’t seem to care too much about what we think, and worse then that they seem to think that we are completely wrong on all accounts that don’t agree with their “vision”.

Game developers who are vein? Preposterous!

I’m not so invested in the game that I’m willing to protest with my time. If things don’t improve, I’ll simply leave the game for an extended period of time (much like I have been doing over the months) and play something else.

Lily.1935:

And they think the community is wrong. From what I’ve heard from one of my friends who does testing for the game, they don’t seem to care too much about what we think, and worse then that they seem to think that we are completely wrong on all accounts that don’t agree with their “vision”.

I’ve talked to them in person, as well. It’s not a matter of they think everything we say is wrong (note that they’ve taken a lot of ideas from the community), but this is THEIR game, and they have their own vision for it. For example, how often have you seen people in these forums go:

“omg necro iz so bad, we need BOONS, also, our auto attacks should be blast finishers, and minions should be zombies that convert anything they kill into OTHER ZOMBIES”

and other ridiculous crap that just obviously isn’t in line with the design. At the end of the day, they are the ones that have to make the decisions about what does and does not get added. They can’t always listen to the community, but that doesn’t mean they never have.

Dhuumfire (both versions), terror, torment, new weakening shroud, all siphons, reduced CD on wells, reduced CD on SA, spectrals working in DS, vital persistence, changing the DM minors, reducing our bleed stacking; these are all changes that have happened that the community talked about either directly or indirectly, and this is only Necromancers, and isn’t even a full list. Just because every change isn’t followed by “we made this change because we saw Nemesis’ thread” doesn’t mean it isn’t made because of the community.

I see why the devs are careful with necro, if you look at out tool set just a few minor changes could make us OP add to that most balancing is done for spvp and right now spvp is being taken over by the bunker/condi meta and we fit in that category pretty well so its hard to get changes to the things we need changed and there are things that we need changed.

besides if class population was the metric of change guard/warrior would be the classes most likely to get nerfed

Well I don’t want to tell them their vision about our class is wrong either, but the fact of the matter is, we are the ones that play this class day in and day out, and if the decisions they are making for it are ruining our experience during play, then they need to rethink their vision for the class. Plain and simple. They keep saying they want a low mobility, tough to kill, attrition class- and yet just about everything they have done over the past year has taken us in the exact opposite direction (aside from the low mobility, that we have been given in heaps and bounds). I know the community doesn’t always have the perfect ideas for the class, and that they do sometimes listen to us (heck I think I’ve even seen a few of my own ideas show up in changes) but we keep running into the same problems over and over. The changes they make might make a certain skill better, might make us flashier, ect but none of it brings us in line with neither their own vision for us, nor rectifies the problems we keep complaining about.

tl;dr
When the same problems keep popping up, some new changes need to be made. Not polishing up old ones to seem like they suck less.

OP is wrong wrong wrong

Warrior never gets meaningful nerfs because the metrics say most players play warrior and anet caters to the metrics.

So, stop playing necromancer and the class turns into engineer or elementalist: constantly nerfed because the only time anet notices these classes exist is when a warrior dies to them.

EDIT: The only reason a lot of our issues got dealt with (hundreds of bugs from release that lasted a year) was because of the large vocal community.

I actually think that anet, and the warrior / thief tpvp community would be happy if there were fewer professions with only enough players of the less played classes to fill the change of pace/relieve boredom function. If this is the case, then only the strong survive.

nekretaal.6485:

OP is wrong wrong wrong

Warrior never gets meaningful nerfs because the metrics say most players play warrior and anet caters to the metrics.

So, stop playing necromancer and the class turns into engineer or elementalist: constantly nerfed because the only time anet notices these classes exist is when a warrior dies to them.

EDIT: The only reason a lot of our issues got dealt with (hundreds of bugs from release that lasted a year) was because of the large vocal community.

I actually think that anet, and the warrior / thief tpvp community would be happy if there were fewer professions with only enough players of the less played classes to fill the change of pace/relieve boredom function. If this is the case, then only the strong survive.

The strong survive eh? Who is the strong? The player? You? Me? No. There is no “strong” in a game. We have no power or strength in this. All is up to the makers of said game. Bug fixes are more vital than balance fixes, so of course they would pay more attention to getting the game completely fixed before actually balancing the classes.

I have nothing against people who play warrior or thief, but if a game of five to six different classes to choose and only two of those classes are chosen, then the game might as well become focused on that rather than wasting our time assuming we could be awesome rangers necros mesmers elementalists and engineers.

Bhawb.7408:

Lily.1935:

And they think the community is wrong. From what I’ve heard from one of my friends who does testing for the game, they don’t seem to care too much about what we think, and worse then that they seem to think that we are completely wrong on all accounts that don’t agree with their “vision”.

I’ve talked to them in person, as well. It’s not a matter of they think everything we say is wrong (note that they’ve taken a lot of ideas from the community), but this is THEIR game, and they have their own vision for it. For example, how often have you seen people in these forums go:

“omg necro iz so bad, we need BOONS, also, our auto attacks should be blast finishers, and minions should be zombies that convert anything they kill into OTHER ZOMBIES”

and other ridiculous crap that just obviously isn’t in line with the design. At the end of the day, they are the ones that have to make the decisions about what does and does not get added. They can’t always listen to the community, but that doesn’t mean they never have.

Dhuumfire (both versions), terror, torment, new weakening shroud, all siphons, reduced CD on wells, reduced CD on SA, spectrals working in DS, vital persistence, changing the DM minors, reducing our bleed stacking; these are all changes that have happened that the community talked about either directly or indirectly, and this is only Necromancers, and isn’t even a full list. Just because every change isn’t followed by “we made this change because we saw Nemesis’ thread” doesn’t mean it isn’t made because of the community.

Its hard not to feel that way when we get responses like “It works as intended” a response about Signet of vampirism. Or Telling me that my poor survivability in PvE had to suffer for PvP as a response to the death shroud nerf. We had someone in our guild who has monthly meetings with the devs and for the most part talks on our behalf. Now I don’t always agree with him and I’m going to keep him anonymous because I don’t have his permission to name him.

Second point. It isn’t THEIR game. Its All of OUR game. We pay for the game and put money into the game. We are invested in the game. It belongs to us just as much as it belongs to them. Its like any other work of art.

I have never seen a post as ridiculous as that example you gave. The most ridiculous request the community has asked for for the necromancer we got. Its called Dhuumfire. And the community was extremely split on giving the necromancer burning.

Arena net also has this denial that the game is grindy. GW2 is extremely grindy! Far far more grindy then GW1 ever was! And they straight up deny that it is, even with a large number of us telling them “GW2 IS GRINDY!” It takes you months or pills and pills of gold to get ascended armor that the average joe can’t possibly do it in under a month’s time. But its not grindy. Living story is mostly a string of repetitive events that are often on a timer or require they be done in 2 weeks so you can’t finish it on your own pace. But its not grindy.

They contradict themselves all the time. “We want necromancers to be an attrition class.” Okay, lets have it. Dhuumfire and tainted shackles added “The necromancer is a burst profession.” Several nerfs later “The necromancer needs to be an attrition profession.” Or just with SoV “It works as intended.” which contradicts “We want a low number of high quality skills not a high quantity of skills with low quality.” and I know you have noticed, SoV isn’t a quality skill. And this is just the contradiction with our profession, this isn’t even getting into the gear treadmill.

Well it´s true it´s their game, they are the developers and they have the responsibility. On the other hand they say that they need feedback and that they in fact want to keep in touch with the community. But their understanding of communication is really weird. It´s only one way com -> dev but you do not get any response, explainings, thoughts with real substance besides marketing bla bla. Constructive feedback with criticism get´s ignored or when the moderators feel like they are in a bad mood the poster get banned or threads get removed. Giving Feedback regarding classes or balance be it constructive or not is pointless. Look at how many posts are in the classes or balance subforum from devs and then compare it with let´s say the CDI threads where they talk about progression. It´s ridiculous, they simply refuse to talk but do not have the guts to say it, this is simple ignorance.

draugris.9872:

Well it´s true it´s their game, they are the developers and they have the responsibility. On the other hand they say that they need feedback and that they in fact want to keep in touch with the community. But their understanding of communication is really weird. It´s only one way com -> dev but you do not get any response, explainings, thoughts with real substance besides marketing bla bla. Constructive feedback with criticism get´s ignored or when the moderators feel like they are in a bad mood the poster get banned or threads get removed. Giving Feedback regarding classes or balance be it constructive or not is pointless. Look at how many posts are in the classes or balance subforum from devs and then compare it with let´s say the CDI threads where they talk about progression. It´s ridiculous, they simply refuse to talk but do not have the guts to say it, this is simple ignorance.

We do own the game and to an extent we do contribute to how the game will change and be shaped. We have quite literally invested into this game and we have certain expectations when it comes to the game. As consumers we have full right to complain about dysfunctional products. And considering that this game is a MMO, its an ongoing investment from both us and them. We do have rights pertaining to this. And they should take us seriously when we present them with concerns. Even the most hate filled, toxic post has the right at least to be heard, because even though they are presenting it in a rather unruly manor, their concerns may need to be addressed. I will agree completely that inappropriate language isn’t the way to go about expressing an issue. However they shouldn’t be ignored just because its unsavory.

You have no rights when it comes to this game except the right to play the game as it currently is and the right to come on these forums and voice your opinion. They have reserved the right to make any change to the game they want, regardless of how you feel. They have the right to completely and totally ignore everything you say, and in fact could choose to spite you and do the exact opposite of everything you say.

It may be good policy for them to try to make us happy, but when it comes down to it, you really don’t have any rights, you signed them away before starting up the game the first time.

I love my necromancer. It’s far more fun for me than any other class. I love my powermancer build, and I even love going condimancer from time to time still. I love the amount of variation and tools I have access to via utilities. I love the DS mechanic, even if it could use some qol improvements in my opinion.

No, I’m not going to stop playing because someone else is unhappy. They can find a new game or a new class to be happy.

I’m always amazed at the level of discontent with necros on these forums, as I think it is a ridiculously fun class to play.

I don’t want to gear and open waypoints for another alt… Even if i already have 4 80’s (warrior even ascended geared, except armor) i want to play necro. And not just necro, but CONDITION necro. And MINION necro in tpvp.

I put insane time in my necro, not just gearing, but finding perfect armor skin, piece by piece not for abandoning him because “hard time”

Bhawb.7408:

You have no rights when it comes to this game except the right to play the game as it currently is and the right to come on these forums and voice your opinion. They have reserved the right to make any change to the game they want, regardless of how you feel. They have the right to completely and totally ignore everything you say, and in fact could choose to spite you and do the exact opposite of everything you say.

It may be good policy for them to try to make us happy, but when it comes down to it, you really don’t have any rights, you signed them away before starting up the game the first time.

YES WE DO! And saying otherwise is a statement of pure ignorance of the law! What we have going on is false advertisement. Ignoring the clear problems with promises and execution of our profession there still is the issue of the promise that the game as a whole is a grind. Although they paragon this idea that it isn’t. This is false advertisement, and their failure to address this is a problem. This is one example. We have seen other examples of this in other games where the game didn’t meet the promises the company has made. Mass Effect is a perfect example of this. If it was just something I didn’t like about the profession, like dhuumfire, this wouldn’t be quite the problem it is. But it isn’t just that, its arena net actively deceiving us and breaking promises.

If you tried to take ANet to court over your “rights”, you’d get absolutely shut down. Why? Because you don’t actually have any rights. You are given a few specific rights, generally allowing you access to the game and its various services as they are at the moment you sign the agreement. NCSOFT, however, has the right to change the service at any point, which means you must then agree again to the same thing again, and they also reserve the right to take away your few limited rights for nearly any reason they deem deserving.

For example:

“10. SERVICE AND AVAILABILITY
You acknowledge that NCSOFT may in its sole and absolute discretion provide subsequent versions, enhancements, modifications, upgrades or patches related to any part of the Service.
You acknowledge that Service may be interrupted for reasons within or beyond the control of NCSOFT, that NCSOFT cannot and does not guarantee You will be able to use the Game or any Account whenever You wish to do so, that NCSOFT will interrupt the Service on a regular basis for purposes of maintenance or updates and may do so without providing You with notice before such interruption, and that NCSOFT may provide subsequent versions, enhancements, modifications, upgrades or patches related to the Software that You must accept and/or install before You will be able to use the Game.”

Basically: they reserve the right to do whatever they want with the game, whenever they want, and if you don’t accept it, you can’t play. User agreements are about as close to signing away your soul as you can get.

Edit: Oh, I probably forgot that you actually more than likely gave away your right to even take this to court as part of the user agreement. Too lazy to look into it to see if that is true in this case, but most user agreements by now include a clause stating that you can’t sue them. By and large, every time you click “Agree” to something online, you can assume that you have given up all your rights, when it comes to whatever you are signing about, except the right to use (for as long as they allow) the product as-is.

Bhawb.7408:

Edit: Oh, I probably forgot that you actually more than likely gave away your right to even take this to court as part of the user agreement.

I don’t want to take them to court, and I have no intention of doing such a thing. I just want them to be honest and maintain their promises.

False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising. As advertising has the potential to persuade people into commercial transactions that they might otherwise avoid, many governments around the world use regulations to control false, deceptive or misleading advertising. “Truth” refers to essentially the same concept, that customers have the right to know what they are buying, and that all necessary information should be on the label.

Then watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk717LQnpVE Go to about 2:30 into the video. They state “You never feel like you are grinding”. Although most of the video is true, that statement is clearly misleading and is in fact false. She makes a claim about the game that isn’t true. I will submit to the fact that grind is going to be in the game, but their original stance on it was it wasn’t required to be competitive in the game or to reach and participate in the end content. Both these statements are false and they where not false at the beginning of the game. From the addition of ascended gear creating a grind in PvE to the addition of skill points in PvP and now the unlocking of new stat combos that we are going to get in PvP later.

If this was the intention from the beginning of the game, they shouldn’t have advertised and promoted the contrary. This is dishonest, and I cannot blindly agree with it. I’m sorry that we both have such a different view on this.

I am done with this conversation though. I’m glad we had this talk, however I have exhausted my point and there is nothing more to say on the issue and nothing new either of us can bring to the other. So, thank you very much Bhawb, its been a pleasure. Perhaps we can have a chat online sometime on less touchy issues. I look forward to it in the future.

Lily.1935:

Then watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk717LQnpVE Go to about 2:30 into the video. They state “You never feel like you are grinding”. Although most of the video is true, that statement is clearly misleading and is in fact false. She makes a claim about the game that isn’t true. I will submit to the fact that grind is going to be in the game, but their original stance on it was it wasn’t required to be competitive in the game or to reach and participate in the end content. Both these statements are false and they where not false at the beginning of the game. From the addition of ascended gear creating a grind in PvE to the addition of skill points in PvP and now the unlocking of new stat combos that we are going to get in PvP later.

Try not to apply objective labels to your subjective opinions. I never feel like I’m grinding in GW2, and I feel like I stay extremely competitive as a solo roamer with only a couple Ascended pieces that I’ve gotten through Laurels. The rest are Exotics. I’ve only ever had exotics, and I’ll probably only ever use exotics.

Throughout my entire experience, nothing has ever felt like a grind, and I’ve enjoyed basically all of the content. I haven’t hit the top-end fractals, I’m not looking to get Ascended gear/a Legendary, and I don’t have map completion. Everything I’ve done in the game has been for the enjoyment of the game, and I’ve never felt behind. Not even once.

I understand your point that a grind exists when they said it wouldn’t. They said that a long time ago. Blizzard said WoW would never allow faction transfers. Sometimes things change, and the power creep they added was done in such a way that it doesn’t bother me for one second that I’m a long way away from being fully ascended.

I’d tell someone that GW2 doesn’t feel like a grind, and I’d tell them none of the grind is necessary. I’d do that in a heartbeat, after ~800 hours of gameplay.

The only right we have is the most important one; and that is whether or not we choose to continue to fork over money.

If you are not satisfied; then don’t. They are not going to care what you have to say after they already have your cash, so don’t bother. This is Corporate Behavior 101 folks.

How about you just quit the game instead?
#problem-solved

Cogbyrn.7283:

Lily.1935:

Then watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk717LQnpVE Go to about 2:30 into the video. They state “You never feel like you are grinding”. Although most of the video is true, that statement is clearly misleading and is in fact false. She makes a claim about the game that isn’t true. I will submit to the fact that grind is going to be in the game, but their original stance on it was it wasn’t required to be competitive in the game or to reach and participate in the end content. Both these statements are false and they where not false at the beginning of the game. From the addition of ascended gear creating a grind in PvE to the addition of skill points in PvP and now the unlocking of new stat combos that we are going to get in PvP later.

Try not to apply objective labels to your subjective opinions. I never feel like I’m grinding in GW2, and I feel like I stay extremely competitive as a solo roamer with only a couple Ascended pieces that I’ve gotten through Laurels. The rest are Exotics. I’ve only ever had exotics, and I’ll probably only ever use exotics.

Throughout my entire experience, nothing has ever felt like a grind, and I’ve enjoyed basically all of the content. I haven’t hit the top-end fractals, I’m not looking to get Ascended gear/a Legendary, and I don’t have map completion. Everything I’ve done in the game has been for the enjoyment of the game, and I’ve never felt behind. Not even once.

I understand your point that a grind exists when they said it wouldn’t. They said that a long time ago. Blizzard said WoW would never allow faction transfers. Sometimes things change, and the power creep they added was done in such a way that it doesn’t bother me for one second that I’m a long way away from being fully ascended.

I’d tell someone that GW2 doesn’t feel like a grind, and I’d tell them none of the grind is necessary. I’d do that in a heartbeat, after ~800 hours of gameplay.

If it is subjective then arena net shouldn’t make claims to the contrary of any point of subjective view. It is irresponsible to do this. However, it is grindy. The living story has felt like a grind to me, I’ve ignored probably the last 5 living story events almost entirely because of how grindy it felt. This one feels less so, however I’ve only scratched the surface. Getting Dungeon armor is a grind. Doing fractals over and over again is a grind, and I’m at 24 and it is starting to feel grindy. Doing dailies is like a tone of little grinds.

Either way you spin it, Arena net was dishonest in the situation, and they should either A. Address the misconception and try and make it absolutely clear what their intentions are or B. Correct the mistake and be sure to not do it in the future. My point is this, Honesty. Keep the conversation transparent and with little to no error.

Also, I’ve been playing this game for 1,700 hours.

You look like you have yourself convinced that you’re right, and that no one else can be right because your perception of the game is the One True Perception.

If that’s so, then we’re done here, and I can only hope that at some point you can step back and realize your opinion isn’t the only one out there. You put yourself into the grind mentality, then you call the game a grind. You can grind, but you don’t have to spend a single minute grinding anything at all, and you can still be competitive on the cheap. In sPvP, you’re competitive in the time it takes to reach level 2. How many other MMOs can make that claim?

Then again, it depends on your definition of “grind”, another subjective aspect to this that you seem to have locked down in order to claim they are dishonest. I could call Mario a coin grind because I have to collect all of the coins to get the most possible lives. That doesn’t mean everyone else is dishonest if they tell people the game doesn’t feel like a grind.

So.. Are we arguing whether or not necromancers have legal precedence to take anet to court over crappy balance? I wonder if this reflects badly on our community or our balance devs?

“It is true that balance is precious – so precious that it must be rationed” – Vladimir Lenin
;)

This is the most unimaginative way to effect change, Think of Anet as the government and we the people need to rise up lol.

Im joking but in all seriousness a necro community I say KEEP PLAYING necro, but think about realistic changes (most ideas are just flat out unbalanced) then we as a comunity pull together and bomb anet with Videos, Forum Post, Social Media, Websites, In Game Protest rally (lol) you name it… all in one day so we are heard.

just a taught… might be fun, and i think necros have the kind of die hard community that could do it.

HMMM… tell you what if you would be interested in doing this send me a private msg. Ill create a separate post and if I get enough interest by the end of the month ill create a website where we can plan it out. Next month we will act, yall can help decide how.

The necro destroying things didn’t happen till ANet did the big numbers about how many played war, etc. (No block form DS and no replacement with endurance regen/block/invul/reflect – total nerf to our condi manipulation the only role we had – etc)

So not playing isn’t the soultion. (Tho I haven’t even bothered do dailys for months as I only load GW2 now to see friends, not get frustrated with a PvP balanced PvE only content game)

As for stuff like:

“omg necro iz so bad, we need BOONS, also, our auto attacks should be blast finishers, and minions should be zombies that convert anything they kill into OTHER ZOMBIES”

Necro’s access to combo finishers are kitten. We’d put up with vigor even tho it’s a boon to get some endurance regen. GW1 necros were known for a fun swam & GW2 minions are worse I played in a game in many many many years. As for the ‘minions aren’t risen dead’ lore argument, why the truck dose bone fiend look exactly like a risen mob?!!

As for the ‘there vision’… That’s what I was sold on. And now what exactly IS there vision?

Attrition – worse in game. (No block/endurange regen/vigor/reflect/invul – only class that can’t sustain a avoid 1shot after 22seconds)

Master Condi Manipulator – Boon to Condi nerfed to let players keep stability or choice of buff in stack. Putrid Mark got super ninja nerf to not remove condi from others and only 3 from us.

LifeForce Master – cannot be spent to give heals/life to others or any control at all. Cannot be gained while in DS.

Minion Master – Cannot tell minions to get out of fire or any master control. They stacked life so they OP vs trash, still die to anything real. Hell they STILL get full 1min CD on elite if wet…

Wells – Ok we have sexy circles.

Anyway, I got no idea what there vision has been for over a year. Cept a ‘burst damage over time that suits a rare situation’

Lily.1935:

Bhawb.7408:

You have no rights when it comes to this game except the right to play the game as it currently is and the right to come on these forums and voice your opinion. They have reserved the right to make any change to the game they want, regardless of how you feel. They have the right to completely and totally ignore everything you say, and in fact could choose to spite you and do the exact opposite of everything you say.

It may be good policy for them to try to make us happy, but when it comes down to it, you really don’t have any rights, you signed them away before starting up the game the first time.

YES WE DO! And saying otherwise is a statement of pure ignorance of the law! What we have going on is false advertisement. Ignoring the clear problems with promises and execution of our profession there still is the issue of the promise that the game as a whole is a grind. Although they paragon this idea that it isn’t. This is false advertisement, and their failure to address this is a problem. This is one example. We have seen other examples of this in other games where the game didn’t meet the promises the company has made. Mass Effect is a perfect example of this. If it was just something I didn’t like about the profession, like dhuumfire, this wouldn’t be quite the problem it is. But it isn’t just that, its arena net actively deceiving us and breaking promises.

It’s funny you keep mentioning grind as something, i have grinded for 1 item only (legendary axe for my necro), rest of the time i’ve just enjoyed the game how i like and i have ascended weapons, full ascended trinkets and 1 piece of ascended armor, only the ascended focus is something i crafted and i already had the mats for it when hitting 500 artificer, you can grind if you want to sure but you do not HAVE to, before ascended i did fine in rares until i crafted exotics i wanted no grind just playing how i wanted to play.

So stop saying they are forcing grind or that they “promised” NO GRIND, it’s wrong, they said if you wanted something quicker you would have to grind for it, the rest comes naturally as you play.

Azzer.8137:

So stop saying they are forcing grind or that they “promised” NO GRIND, it’s wrong, they said if you wanted something quicker you would have to grind for it, the rest comes naturally as you play.

Actually there is no grind in GW2… there has been noone in WoW either for quite a few years… Grind by definition is killing the same mobs over and over because of a gap in quest based xp gain or turning something into a fine pate. People tend to forget that.

Bhawb.7408:

If you tried to take ANet to court over your “rights”, you’d get absolutely shut down. Why? Because you don’t actually have any rights. You are given a few specific rights, generally allowing you access to the game and its various services as they are at the moment you sign the agreement. NCSOFT, however, has the right to change the service at any point, which means you must then agree again to the same thing again, and they also reserve the right to take away your few limited rights for nearly any reason they deem deserving.
Bla bala bla other stuff more law bla bla bla

BTW if we actually go by the digital sale of goods act, a-net is doing something illegal by not allowing client side modding (like riot, the guys with the most played game on the world, went so far to hide their client side data that people no longer use custom skins and didnt ban anyone for using them despite knowing what happens since the client does send data to the server of the opened files, *even if you can still use em if you open the directory, because they knew they would get their kitten whooped if anyone bothered to go to court with it), because in all rights we have a transaction of valuables and stuff like permabanning for anything that aint disrupting the server side data flow is called information fraud, you know the stuff that exists since virtual money so that noone may prevent you from using data you own except if you are like a prisoner or in a police investigation.

Also being forced to accept to patch terms is also a violation of the funny enough named unfair contract terms act which prevents companies to create illusions of choice but chosing the status quo option actually prevents you from doing anything with what is on your side of the contact anymore: e.g. If you say accept we take 50% of your earnings from shop x, if you decline all previous contracts are nulllified and you owe us everything you earned.

BIG BUT – some of all that quite clearly illegal stuff by all physical laws people accept in virtual terms (despite them applying to them by international digital industry laws) because of convenience and them being broken for positive improvements like no hackers or nice new content patches… So no we have the rights (no matter what a contract says because you know a contract between 2 parties has no influence on the law), we chose not to opt on them for the benefit of a bigger social group, but in cases where they kitten on it they should be used by all rights if all communication is denied… to which i must point out a-net should really get a dedicated profession red/forum admin to work with the communities (for stuff like necro shade and putrid mark or on rangers to explain why Alpha training (pet gains your opening strikes) doesnt work with Remorseless (you gain opening strike when stealth or on kill).

^ This dude makes a very interesting point.

borrok.9267:

^ This dude makes a very interesting point.

He makes a good point, but I would be highly surprised if they could get in trouble for it. Every single game that is based on online servers (and so you can’t run old versions of the game, like you could with an offline game) does the exact same thing. This isn’t restricted to gaming, either. A lot of online features that don’t/can’t use old versions do the same thing (iTunes anyone?).

Even if things are “technically” illegal, if they aren’t enforced its the same (coughweedcough). It only matters if you can actually use the rights that you technically have, and in this case I highly doubt the “rights” that we might have could actually be used.

Edit: I do agree that they need an open communication though with certain things. They are far too secretive about certain issues that are just obviously broken. The four months BS about Putrid Mark comes to mind.

Oh yeah for sure, there are hundreds of “laws” and regulations that are not enforced or cared about. You are right though, what we have is basically a right to play. Although a point Andele made that contracts between two parties doesn’t over ride the law, the laws this game(and like every other game) breaks is lesser than jay walking. Anet doesn’t steal from anyone that I know of, and they do make an effort to improve the game although in my opinion wrongly, so legally I think it’s a dead end. If they wanted a wiser approach to balance they could easily employ lets say 10 man teams per class to play out PvP/WvW/PvE and give very direct guidelines to what kind of input they want for each class. Explain very directly and thoroughly what image and direction they have for the classes and take input criticisms/done rights from each person. If they want an attrition class, what kind of traits would you modify to reach that goal. What kind of skills or added effects/traited skills needed to make that image viable.

LezardValeth.9453:

The only way to truly get the attention necromancers need is to stop playing your necromancer character and play another class.

This is possibly the WORST approach to getting the attention the class needs. If no one plays the class, then Anet truly has a reason to not listen to the people who aren’t playing it. As well, as things change, what you think might have been wrong with the class 6 months ago may not be the new ‘wrong’ thing to complain about.

No, the best way to get attention is to be on top of how the class is integrated into the game.

You just need to keep being vocal, but intelligently vocal (something I suffer from not doing sometimes), and also realistic in your expectations.

Bhawb.7408:

You just need to keep being vocal, but intelligently vocal (something I suffer from not doing sometimes), and also realistic in your expectations.

You dont have to be realistic in a fantasy game, you just have to be reasonable/have a fair playing field, two very very different things in game even if they are synonyms irl.
There plain needs to be a dev (or even group of devs) which play 3+ professions regularly (hell players used to be paid for that more than most people that work for blizz in case of wow) to have insight in those points and point out the stuff which can be reasonably be fixed and be a massive improvement in quality of life/balance (like a thief being able to make a ally healing build with stuff like shadow protector or a ranger a stealth build via remorseless/opening strikes that actually works with their pets), but also to point out things that dont need to be fixed (like for example there being a 1s punishment for getting kicked out of DS would be very reasonable and increase necro skillcap if the cooldown wouldnt get reset on using the exit ds button/ability, it could also allow a increased cooldown on ds thus indirectly nerfing the currently still kinda mostly meta defining terrormancer OR plain pointing out that dhuumfire shouldnt have been implemented in the first place).

Also yep in most countries jaywalking will be the worse of the 2 crimes… http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking

Obtena.7952:

LezardValeth.9453:

The only way to truly get the attention necromancers need is to stop playing your necromancer character and play another class.

This is possibly the WORST approach to getting the attention the class needs. If no one plays the class, then Anet truly has a reason to not listen to the people who aren’t playing it. As well, as things change, what you think might have been wrong with the class 6 months ago may not be the new ‘wrong’ thing to complain about.

No, the best way to get attention is to be on top of how the class is integrated into the game.

The game has been out for over a year now. It does not take long for the average hardcore gamer to get accustomed to a favorite class and learn every possible playstyle, and since GW2 is PVP friendly that shortens the length of required time even further.
Yet you say that continuing to do what we HAVE been doing which has given us more negative than positive, rather than opposing the status quo? I understand if you don’t agree with me, but being bound by a status quo means no progress. My suggestion may sound like we are running away from the problem, (well the public server riot one doesn’t…) But in every RPG sometimes you run into a random encounter that you find you can’t win, so you have no choice to run and do something else.

Do not submit to false consciousness, there are other ways.

So ummm… yeah.

MethaneGas.8357:

So ummm… yeah.

Yeah, some people can get so worked up. All I want to is spread an opinion, then people come and bully me.

LezardValeth.9453:

Yeah, some people can get so worked up. All I want to is spread an opinion, then people come and bully me.

Welcome to the internet.

Edit: And life.

MethaneGas.8357:

So ummm… yeah.

Money and time.

Its honestly as simple as that. Do you get annoyed when your time is wasted? Do you get annoyed when your money is wasted? Well, This explains both. Since a video game, especially a MMO is a Huge time sink its very understandable that people would get upset over something that they have invested both time and money into and haven’t gotten an appropriate return. You may not value your time and money that much, but I do. Especially considering have so little of both.

Look at professional sports and you’ll see how “just a game” doesn’t always translate.

Lily.1935:

Money and time.

Its honestly as simple as that. Do you get annoyed when your time is wasted? Do you get annoyed when your money is wasted? Well, This explains both. Since a video game, especially a MMO is a Huge time sink its very understandable that people would get upset over something that they have invested both time and money into and haven’t gotten an appropriate return. You may not value your time and money that much, but I do. Especially considering have so little of both.

You bought the game for what, $50? You have at least 1k hours into the game, no? If you ask me, that’s more than worth it for -yes, you guessed it – $50.

Necros are in a pretty good shape right now. The game has 3 modes. PvE, WvW and sPvP. Walk into sPvP – Necros. Walk into WvW – Necros. That says something. So on the one hand, you have a huge amount of people playing the class and on the other, you have people demanding a strike. What the?

And the gif was for the gibberish about rights, status quo, seeing Anet as an authoritarian government, and laws…. really? …. Really? What the? Chill out.

MethaneGas.8357:

Lily.1935:

Money and time.

Its honestly as simple as that. Do you get annoyed when your time is wasted? Do you get annoyed when your money is wasted? Well, This explains both. Since a video game, especially a MMO is a Huge time sink its very understandable that people would get upset over something that they have invested both time and money into and haven’t gotten an appropriate return. You may not value your time and money that much, but I do. Especially considering have so little of both.

You bought the game for what, $50? You have at least 1k hours into the game, no? If you ask me, that’s more than worth it for -yes, you guessed it – $50.

Necros are in a pretty good shape right now. The game has 3 modes. PvE, WvW and sPvP. Walk into sPvP – Necros. Walk into WvW – Necros. That says something. So on the one hand, you have a huge amount of people playing the class and on the other, you have people demanding a strike. What the?

And the gif was for the gibberish about rights, status quo, seeing Anet as an authoritarian government, and laws…. really? …. Really? What the? Chill out.

I’ve actually seen very few necros in pvp/wvw/pve lately lol

Oh you haven’t? Cuz I could’ve sworn I saw at least 4-5 Necros in that 15-20 man zerg just 2 hours ago. That’s easily 30% of the players in that group playing one profession… and there are 8 professions. Why they would play a class that “requires a strike” is beyond me.

We both know Necros are quite common.

Bhawb.7408:

If you tried to take ANet to court over your “rights”, you’d get absolutely shut down. Why? Because you don’t actually have any rights. You are given a few specific rights, generally allowing you access to the game and its various services as they are at the moment you sign the agreement. NCSOFT, however, has the right to change the service at any point, which means you must then agree again to the same thing again, and they also reserve the right to take away your few limited rights for nearly any reason they deem deserving.
Bla bala bla other stuff more law bla bla bla

BTW if we actually go by the digital sale of goods act, a-net is doing something illegal by not allowing client side modding (like riot, the guys with the most played game on the world, went so far to hide their client side data that people no longer use custom skins and didnt ban anyone for using them despite knowing what happens since the client does send data to the server of the opened files, *even if you can still use em if you open the directory, because they knew they would get their kitten whooped if anyone bothered to go to court with it), because in all rights we have a transaction of valuables and stuff like permabanning for anything that aint disrupting the server side data flow is called information fraud, you know the stuff that exists since virtual money so that noone may prevent you from using data you own except if you are like a prisoner or in a police investigation.

Also being forced to accept to patch terms is also a violation of the funny enough named unfair contract terms act which prevents companies to create illusions of choice but chosing the status quo option actually prevents you from doing anything with what is on your side of the contact anymore: e.g. If you say accept we take 50% of your earnings from shop x, if you decline all previous contracts are nulllified and you owe us everything you earned.

BIG BUT – some of all that quite clearly illegal stuff by all physical laws people accept in virtual terms (despite them applying to them by international digital industry laws) because of convenience and them being broken for positive improvements like no hackers or nice new content patches… So no we have the rights (no matter what a contract says because you know a contract between 2 parties has no influence on the law), we chose not to opt on them for the benefit of a bigger social group, but in cases where they kitten on it they should be used by all rights if all communication is denied… to which i must point out a-net should really get a dedicated profession red/forum admin to work with the communities (for stuff like necro shade and putrid mark or on rangers to explain why Alpha training (pet gains your opening strikes) doesnt work with Remorseless (you gain opening strike when stealth or on kill).[/quote]

This is all true but they have a nifty TOS “Terms of Service” that no one bothers to read, in there it states that anyone breaking the outlined TOS foregoes the right to any digital property purchased. Riot didn’t think to add this in the beginning but Anet has it all there, they can ban you for whatever reason they deem fit and it’s 100% ok. Your not even entitled to a refund.

MethaneGas.8357:

Oh you haven’t? Cuz I could’ve sworn I saw at least 4-5 Necros in that 15-20 man zerg just 2 hours ago. That’s easily 30% of the players in that group playing one profession… and there are 8 professions. Why they would play a class that “requires a strike” is beyond me.

We both know Necros are quite common.

And yet I haven’t seen them. One or two here and there, not a striking amount and no where near what you are saying. Then again, that is MY experience and you are talking about YOUR experience(as if it is the only truth). By all means, base an entire population off one zerg you saw 2 hours prior to your post.