Guild Wars 2

Running a fractal with two warriors and two guardians then finding out you have the highest dps…..

So earlier I was in a fractal 32 with two warrs and two guards. Last fractal before the boss and we got dredge. At the mining suit portion I was the one pulling the lava.

We went around maybe 2 or 3 times and then his health was at about 1/4.
At this point I get down pop well of suffering and lich form…. I look at his health bar my attacks are the ONLY ones significantly dropping the bosses health…. I drop him in about 20s of lich form.

Ironically at the beginning of the fractals another warrior asked me to bring a warrior because necro dps sucks. I said I don’t have one but I can assure you my dps doesn’t suck…. All in all it was just funny because at the end of the dredge I asked to see gear pings because I was curious… everyone was running soldier zerker mix… >.<

Its not so much that our DPS is terrible (although I’ll wait on spoj or someone else who knows our PvE better than me), its that we don’t tend to bring much else to your standard group. Also Lich + well bombing vs normal DPS is probably not the best comparison.

Bhawb.7408:

Its not so much that our DPS is terrible (although I’ll wait on spoj or someone else who knows our PvE better than me), its that we don’t tend to bring much else to your standard group. Also Lich + well bombing vs normal DPS is probably not the best comparison.

The point I was making was that necro dps actually isn’t terrible… This warrior had the misconception that it was. Either way the amount of time it took them to get the mob to that health was kind of off putting….

Yeah even though necro cant help buff the group. You will still do more dps than other classes if they are using soldier gear (assuming you are using berserker). No class is so different that they would do more dps than other classes with subpar gear. Gear and traits are more important for dps than the class.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Yeah even though necro cant help buff the group. You will still do more dps than other classes if they are using soldier gear (assuming you are using berserker). No class is so different that they would do more dps than other classes with subpar gear. Gear and traits are more important for dps than the class.

Well I wasn’t using the purest DPS spec for necro as far as traits go. (was 6 into soul reaping instead of 5 into curses), but other wise I was using pure berserker gear and one cavalier trinket…. yeah it is just annoying that people base DPS based off class and not gear, traits, etc.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Yeah even though necro cant help buff the group. You will still do more dps than other classes if they are using soldier gear (assuming you are using berserker). No class is so different that they would do more dps than other classes with subpar gear. Gear and traits are more important for dps than the class.

Very much depends on weapon choice, not traits, gear only matters for power difference (as mentioned multiple times before, a full optimized zerker can barely stretch to 40% more dps than a power build if it would never crit, down to just over 20% if they are both on same might, fury and banner uptime).
For example a mesmer with S/P or S/S will do a vastly better base preformance in soldier gear than a ranger in full zerker on a shortbow, since a 1.5+ vs 0.5- power ratios.
Same thing applies to all professions thus necro too, we are kinda both blessed and cursed on that side with low power ratios on life generators (in terms of power scaling pre second) and high total power+high base damage (for example the reason why lich 1 is only slightly stronger than DS1 is just its cast time, it has a 0.5 power scaling compared to 1.4 from life blast, it needs the Lich power boost and high base damage to compete unless you get over the 5.4k power point).

http://sentinelark.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/skill-coefficients-for-the-necromancer/ – just a little list of said scalings, which also shows that either staff needs quite a buff for a two hander now that its team utility got the gravestone smashed on with “tooltip fixes” or that we need a real two hander… like real every other profession has a weapon (not to even mention profession mechanics) with a 1.4+ power ratio on less than a 10s cd.

No no gear and traits have the largest impact on dps. And im not referring to class specific exceptions like minions and phantasms.

The highest dps build do the damage they do because they have high crit chance from gear and traits. And they stack modifiers and buffs/debuffs from traits. If you play without any trait points you notice a huge difference. If you play without gear its not quite as noticeable. But still a difference. Difference between dps of classes when using similar gear and trait philosophies is very similar when the classes are exposed to the same level of buffs.

But yeah its true necro lacks a lot of high coefficient skills. I believe this is down to anet trying to force necros into condi/minion roles. And yeah staff is terribly weak.

Spoj The Second.7680:

No no gear and traits have the largest impact on dps. And im not referring to class specific exceptions like minions and phantasms.

The highest dps build do the damage they do because they have high crit chance from gear and traits. And they stack modifiers and buffs/debuffs from traits. If you play without any trait points you notice a huge difference. If you play without gear its not quite as noticeable. But still a difference. Difference between dps of classes when using similar gear and trait philosophies is very similar when the classes are exposed to the same level of buffs.

But yeah its true necro lacks a lot of high coefficient skills. I believe this is down to anet trying to force necros into condi/minion roles. And yeah staff is terribly weak.

Except that… even with min-maxed traits and gear, the only profession which has truly notable increase of dps pre max multipliers and buffs are warrior and ele… and thats for a limited amount of time because (Rampage on dual axe 6/6/0/2/0; a build too rare and kitten y for warriors to use as theorycrafted already; and 0/6/0/5/3 lingering elements duration, having a 4/10s uptime in that boost).
That again does not mean that you shouldnt have a zerker set, especially now with free build adaptation, but having power primary (so valkyre, soldier and zealot/crit variables trough of the knight, assassins and rampagers) typically gives just over double base dps.

TLDR: A team with ok gear and keeping their damage buffs reliable will in 99/100 situations be just as efficient than a full setup optimized group, since such setups rely in perfect situations and not… human; yes you get insane things like 50k burst skills/10-20k dps videos, but they arent a accurate representation of how said runs go… (as anyone who was doing arah solos for selling, tis either skip, cheeze or slowly slaughter thrash)

Lingering elements doesnt effect damage modifiers.

Anyway my original point was that a class using dps gear will almost always out dps a class using sub optimal gear. So its not surprising that the op did more damage than the warriors and guardians in his group.

as anyone who was doing arah solos for selling, tis either skip, cheeze or slowly slaughter thrash

Not really true. But its true that the chance of screw ups in solos is much greater. A lot of solo’ers do exploit the hell out of instances. But I really wish you wouldnt make assumptions that all of them do. I know a number of players who can consistantly solo arah p2 in under 30minutes. And others who can solo other dungeons in other impressive times and do so daily (this was before the patch, now its even easier due to higher crit damage in downscaled dungeons).

As an example, in the past when my guild actively sold arah we often complained about the number of sellers who sold for cheaper and undercut us while skipping lupicus or going underwater to completely exploit the entire path while afk. Our guilds requirement back then was to be able to solo lupi so it was an unwritten rule that if you skipped lupi you would be removed from the guild (happened to one new guy since ive been in the guild). Those of us who still sell, tend to do it fully legit. Pugs exploit more than most sellers these days anyway.

Spoj The Second.7680:

As an example, in the past when my guild actively sold arah we often complained about the number of sellers who sold for cheaper and undercut us while skipping lupicus or going underwater to completely exploit the entire path while afk.

I have no idea what “selling arah” means…

Spoj The Second.7680:

Lingering elements doesnt effect damage modifiers.

Anyway my original point was that a class using dps gear will almost always out dps a class using sub optimal gear. So its not surprising that the op did more damage than the warriors and guardians in his group.

as anyone who was doing arah solos for selling, tis either skip, cheeze or slowly slaughter thrash

Not really true. But its true that the chance of screw ups in solos is much greater. A lot of solo’ers do exploit the hell out of instances. But I really wish you wouldnt make assumptions that all of them do. I know a number of players who can consistantly solo arah p2 in under 30minutes. And others who can solo other dungeons in other impressive times and do so daily (this was before the patch, now its even easier due to higher crit damage in downscaled dungeons).

As an example, in the past when my guild actively sold arah we often complained about the number of sellers who sold for cheaper and undercut us while skipping lupicus or going underwater to completely exploit the entire path while afk. Our guilds requirement back then was to be able to solo lupi so it was an unwritten rule that if you skipped lupi you would be removed from the guild (happened to one new guy since ive been in the guild). Those of us who still sell, tend to do it fully legit. Pugs exploit more than most sellers these days anyway.

No but ele damage bonuses are mostly attunement specific… so swapping attunements which is core to get over a 50% bonus is cruical… stuff like piercing shard, air training, etc.

Also yes, i know that people do a fair solo P2… but i also know that they then skip 90% of the trash, which isnt a clear. Hell back in the days pre AC rebalance i was doing P3 daily and no you couldnt do a full clear of it solo you had to skip trash mobs, nothing against that, but that just helps prove my point of gear and specific traits arent as influential as the person playing properly (aka not using condi weapons while equipped with power gear, not throwing out cc and immobs for the sake of using abilities and thus screwing over the group if its a knockback or refreshing 5+ defiant stacks, etc). And yes i do hate the fact that pugs try to do the exploit tricks (like the doorstruck lupi, crusher split corpse pull or the high priestess of dwayna reset to 0) without actually knowing how to either do them properly or knowing how to do the fight normally…

Flow – its doing a run to the final boss, keeping him cc/stuck or in combat while on ledge/telescope/behind wall while on low hp and selling spots of the party for around 15g before finishing him off so that the people get the tokens.

TLDR: Skipping trash or taking their time isnt a problem, its that the little dps difference doesnt matter in such cases and in general knowledge+proper playstyle>difference made by gear; as for OPs point, lemme guess, those wars probably did stuff like sitting on GS1, not using A/M burst combo and noone might stacked.

Andele.1306:

No but ele damage bonuses are mostly attunement specific… so swapping attunements which is core to get over a 50% bonus is cruical… stuff like piercing shard, air training, etc.

Those arent affected by lingering elements. Its a common complaint about the trait.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Elements

Spoj The Second.7680:

Andele.1306:

No but ele damage bonuses are mostly attunement specific… so swapping attunements which is core to get over a 50% bonus is cruical… stuff like piercing shard, air training, etc.

Those arent affected by lingering elements. Its a common complaint about the trait.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Elements

You sure this was tested recently? Since you can easily see getting 1.6 vs 1.9k hits in pvp from shatterstones based on if the streamer didnt/did swap air/water or not. Either way Ele still have stupidly high amount of basic multipliers (40-50 depending on setup without going shards or 60 while in water with 5/0/5/4/0) not even counting scholar runes.

Yeah eles have a ton of modifiers and i think thats one of the reasons they dont want to fix lingering elements otherwise it would create unholy amounts of burst. I havent tested it myself. But i know a number of ele mains who have and have been asking for this to be fixed since release. Ele is a good example why not having traits will tank your dps seeing kitten much comes from those flat modifiers.

Its probably some other factor that is triggering the damage increase (its probably bolt to the heart causing the difference or maybe vital striking?). Im curious though so i think ill test it later myself.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Yeah eles have a ton of modifiers and i think thats one of the reasons they dont want to fix lingering elements otherwise it would create unholy amounts of burst. I havent tested it myself. But i know a number of ele mains who have and have been asking for this to be fixed since release. Ele is a good example why not having traits will tank your dps seeing kitten much comes from those flat modifiers.

Its probably some other factor that is triggering the damage increase (its probably bolt to the heart causing the difference or maybe vital striking?). Im curious though so i think ill test it later myself.

The problem is, golems dont start at 40% for bolt to apply… maybe its vital but doesnt that work no matter the attunement? Whatever, yes thats why i mentioned Ele and Warrior, since they have truly big modifiers or boosts trough traits, Thief and mesmer could count, but thats more specific specs and/or using unusual skills for a higher effect than their chun lee kick (aka spam simple but kitten powerful kitten).
Necro has a modifier in each line which balance uptime and power (20 from close to death for half the fight, 5+ condis, but with variation from target the weak to flat 5% for pretty much the entire fight from undeath; yes it can be down for a bit, but seriously, with real power weapon setup thats not gonna be that way for even close to long enough in comparison to getting either a full life transfer off or another life blast).

If the ele was below 90% hp then vital wont apply. So thats most likely what you witnessed. I couldnt get damage modifiers to carry over when testing lingering elements. So it seems the testing others have done is accurate.

jportell.2197:

Running a fractal with two warriors and two guardians then finding out you have the highest dps…..

So earlier I was in a fractal 32 with two warrs and two guards. Last fractal before the boss and we got dredge. At the mining suit portion I was the one pulling the lava.

We went around maybe 2 or 3 times and then his health was at about 1/4.
At this point I get down pop well of suffering and lich form…. I look at his health bar my attacks are the ONLY ones significantly dropping the bosses health…. I drop him in about 20s of lich form.

Ironically at the beginning of the fractals another warrior asked me to bring a warrior because necro dps sucks. I said I don’t have one but I can assure you my dps doesn’t suck…. All in all it was just funny because at the end of the dredge I asked to see gear pings because I was curious… everyone was running soldier zerker mix… >.<

Our guild found out too. At first we were running guardians and warriors now we’re 3 necros a thief and engineer. Necromancer can do sooo much damage in lich form. Every single time I go into lich form in 2v4’s for example I can down every single one of ‘m in 10 seconds before going out of lich form to try and stomp. I’m not that good at stomping yet sadly