Guild Wars 2

how does dungeon ppl like condi necros in there ?

Insta kick or it’s a random pug which doesn’t care about the composition and runs everything much slower.

Dungeon people don’t like necros regardless of build, much less a condi necro. That said, it’s not like every single group will kick you for your class. Just whatever you do, don’t say you’re running conditions. People usually don’t notice.

Meh people on these forums are very unlucky, i ran a condi build and never got kicked, the only time i had a problem was another condi necro was in the group and was force to switch to my other char, but condi necros are freaking awesome with epidemic.

No ur group was just bad and u don´t reckongnize how bad conditionbuilds in dungeons usually are.

Trash can die in 2-5seconds, which dungeon doesn´t matter. U can´t tell me that epidemic is “usefull” there.
Most PuGs don´t care what u play, they are slow and play bad most times. A conditionecro is “ok” in such groups if u´re the only condition based class/build.
If u enjoy to play a conditionmancer, just join “play what u want” groups and everything is fine.

“Speedrunners” don´t want conditionnecromancers. Some are kicking all necros, others are OK with Zerkdaggernecs.

Conditionmancers depend on the “tier” that you are playing in.

Low organization pugs and randoms: not a problem.
Med organization pugs: only an issue when there aren’t too many condition users, which usually isn’t a problem.
High DPS groups: condi’s don’t work well here, since enemies usually die in a few seconds anyway.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Conditionmancers depend on the “tier” that you are playing in.

Low organization pugs and randoms: not a problem.
Med organization pugs: only an issue when there aren’t too many condition users, which usually isn’t a problem.
High DPS groups: condi’s don’t work well here, since enemies usually die in a few seconds anyway.

^ This, also note that High DPS groups only exist within organized groups. You are never going to find pugs that are a High DPS group or at most one in around a 1000. Running a condition build is fine because no one in pug groups will care. If they do they are probably a bad warrior who thinks they are doing the highest damage in the game when they aren’t. Run condition builds if that is what you want to do, but realize it isn’t optimal.

Switching to anything else from necro is still a boost to any group, since other classes can provide meaningful buffs to the party, while the necro is just a big bag of dps.
Even engi is better, they can keep up vulnerability and give aoe might. :/

tl;dr
Everything is fine OP unless you want to do some more serious dungeon / fractal running. If you do, avoid these kind of groups with necro.

Dalanor.5387:

Switching to anything else from necro is still a boost to any group, since other classes can provide meaningful buffs to the party, while the necro is just a big bag of dps.
Even engi is better, they can keep up vulnerability and give aoe might. :/

tl;dr
Everything is fine OP unless you want to do some more serious dungeon / fractal running. If you do, avoid these kind of groups with necro.

I would go even farther to say that it isn’t fine, but if you run dungeons often enough as a condition necro, you start to notice trends, like when the other 4 people in the team are reasonably good and zerker, things die almost instantly, while the random pug may take 2-3 times as long (or longer) to kill the same trash.

You feel really impactful when your team comp is weak, out-damaging the PVT and bad power players while staying alive, oddly this is a horribly inefficient group, but it is reasonably enjoyable if you are not going for a speed run.

When your team comp is strong, you are more or less a drain on the DPS, you feel pointless, and really are pointless.

But like I always say, PVE in the game is by and large casual anyhow, so there is no reason to get too bent out of shape. Most teams won’t kick you, or just use LFG and join friendly sounding groups. Stuff takes way longer to die most likely, but at least you don’t have to listen to elitist pricks.

I leveled a condimancer just for the new Wurm event. A party of 5 are heavily relied on at each wurm to keep the champ husks under control. The event cannot succeed without 15 condimancers, so there is an important PvE niche role for condition necros.

However, I would never consider bringing my condimancer into a dungeon …

1. every conditionclass can do this job.
2. u can just kite the husks away, killing them is only one viable tactic, not the only one.

Epidemic isn’t excluded to conditionmancers you know, so are the conditions. A Zerker Necro can use Epidemic to spread on crit bleeds and burning of himself and friends for sustained damage he lacks, spread Weakness to lower the pressure of trashes and most importantly spread Vulnurability to improve group AoE. The Zerker Necro can also choose to swap targets and spam Epidemic for a maximum sustainence of those conditions. I am talking about doubling the stacks of bleeds, maintaining 25 vulnurability, perma weakness and perma burning on AoE fights; all possible with some target swapping and a push of a button. Dont forget that with 25 in Curses most of us Zerker Necros slot to take Target the Weak also gives good chunk of condition damage, so when Zerker Necro spreads Confusion and Burning of other players, they will add up to Zerker Necro’s damage quite a bit.

Why am I saying all this? Its because not being a conditionmancer doesn’t mean dropping some niches adore about its gamestyle. So OP, I would suggest you to try Power atleast once, you will see its not such a different animal than conditionmancer. Have fun.

Then again, the first group to hit scale 50 fractals after the patch was running with a condi necro, so yeah…

Unfortunately, more than 99% of the players (these are real numbers ) don’t have a clue of what conditions are and aren’t capable off. So whenever you ask this stuff, pretty much all you’ll get is a rehash of popular opinion instead of an objective answer.

That race was just about who had the most free time.

i think condis spread with epidemic, tick based on the necro’s condi dmg. so if a zerker spreads 150 tick bleeds they will tick 25 on the new target.

Vuln spread is very good

spoj.9672:

That race was just about who had the most free time.

The amount of time you can dedicate has always been a big factor in any world first, nothing new here. Also, I’m sure there were more than 5 people playing GW2 that had the same amount of free time at that point.

The real point is: if you read this thread (and any related) you’d think they wouldn’t have had a shot even if they had 30 hours in a day, per definition… cause, you know, conditions are terribad!… Obviously, that’s not entirely correct.

No they arent terrible. My guilds old fractal 80 team ran with a condi necro because it was needed for dredge. And when my group was going through the instabilities I ended up using condi necro for 43 and 44 because it made things easier. The point is skilled players with an average build are going to be more effective than unskilled players. Condi builds arent min max but they do enough damage to be useful in some fractals and arent a complete hindrance in the rest.

But at the time of fractured release. The only top pve guild with players who went for the world first was DnT. Everyone in rT and other guilds had jobs and so on so it was pointless trying to compete. I guarantee if any of the top guilds teams had the same play time as those guys who got it first it would have been a different story.

In pve you either play the 30/0/10/0/30 or some variation moving that 10 around where you see fit or your really not using an optimized pve build. Now with that said play whatever you want and enjoy screw everyone else.

Pelopidas.2140:

i think condis spread with epidemic, tick based on the necro’s condi dmg. so if a zerker spreads 150 tick bleeds they will tick 25 on the new target.

Vuln spread is very good

The conditions spread benefit from the caster’s condition damage, but even without any condition damage Zerker Necro can have Bleed that ticks for 42 damage, Torment that ticks for 32 or 64 damage, Burning that ticks for 328 damage and Poison that ticks for 84 damage per second. With multiple stacks of Bleed and some Confusion these damages can quite add up.

yeah i agree that helps with sustained dps on adds. Maybe that’s the reason we dont get cleave on dagger, we would be too op spreading condis and cleaving kitten

For the Wurm event I run a 30/30/0/0/10 with carrion/scav armour and rabid trinkets .
Weapons are rampager scepter (sigil of bursting) / dagger (sigil of corruption).
I buff with toxic focusing crystals and super veggie pizza

I use corruption utilities and plague elite.

they are actually quite powerful as long as you don’t stay within condition skills only, i use blood fiend and flesh golem while having 3 wells.
the problem is that ppl focus way to much on speed cleans, as if they rather rush trough it instead of enjoying the game.
are they in a hurry, are the rewards lessened after a period of time?

sorudo.9054:

they are actually quite powerful as long as you don’t stay within condition skills only, i use blood fiend and flesh golem while having 3 wells.
the problem is that ppl focus way to much on speed cleans, as if they rather rush trough it instead of enjoying the game.
are they in a hurry, are the rewards lessened after a period of time?

Time is a valuable thing.

But not the only valuable thing. If not, pro-tip: the shortest way to finish a dungeon is to never start.

Everyone wants the run shorter and smoother. No one wants a 3 hours dungeon run.

Afya.5842:

Everyone wants the run shorter and smoother. No one wants a 3 hours dungeon run.

Yeah, like those times in my dungeons runs that berserker warriors tried to skip content or got obliterated by a boss and I had to waste valuable time saving them when almost the entire party wiped.

Wait…

amiavamp.9785:

Afya.5842:

Everyone wants the run shorter and smoother. No one wants a 3 hours dungeon run.

Yeah, like those times in my dungeons runs that berserker warriors tried to skip content or got obliterated by a boss and I had to waste valuable time saving them when almost the entire party wiped.

Wait…

Or those times where those pugs cant even tank with all that defensive gear so I let them wipe and just go solo the boss.

Conditions deal less damage than power build, they simply make you tankier. However since the necro relies on bleeding it’s terrible because of the cap and overwriting of others.

New bleeding stacks overwrite old bleeding stacks, wich means your stack that lasts 10 sec with 2k condi dmg will get deleted by 1 crit of a zerker mesmer phantasm.

Also there will allways be bleeding on the enemy, even if you overwrite the others and you tic for 150 damage, you actually just do 105 tics since you just delete anothers 45 dmg tic. Not useful for the group, just for personal dps.

spoj.9672:

No they arent terrible. My guilds old fractal 80 team ran with a condi necro because it was needed for dredge.

And what was he for? Engi heals more, grants might, has higher AoE, same goes for Ele. The mesmer could grant +50% damage with nullfield cleanse the protection, a thief for skipping, and all the other classes simply deal more damage and got utility.

In the end I stopped playing my necro because of two things:

• condi necro deals almost 0 damage and is decreasing others dps slightly with overwriting bleedings
• power necro just deals damage but does nothing else. no buffs, no utility and nothing special another class couldn’t do better

I think the necro would be awesome with the following changes:

• remove the godkitten bleeding cap already in PvE! It’s useless, bleeding is ONLY DAMAGE!!
• give the necro a trait that grants an unique aura wich shares a % of your own toughness.

Xyonon.3987:

spoj.9672:

No they arent terrible. My guilds old fractal 80 team ran with a condi necro because it was needed for dredge.

And what was he for?

Weakness. But currently Skale venom consumable is a better option.

Condition in GW2 really reminds me of end game GW1. In GW1 hard mode, mobs have so much armor that normal damage do crap dps. The only way to do reliable dps is to spike with armor-ignoring damage.

It’s the complete opposite in GW2, mobs have low armor, high hp that favors direct damage. Condition’s armor-ignoring property is useless.

I wouldn’t say it’s 0 dps. In fact it’s still quite good if you compare to 1-2 offensive stats build. But of course it won’t match 3stats build like zerker, assassin, rampager.

However more to come is the ramp up time, damage multiplier, utilities on condition not boon, defiant, cleanse, immune, and last, 25 stack cap.

But in general, listen to this guy:

Conditionmancers depend on the “tier” that you are playing in.

Low organization pugs and randoms: not a problem.
Med organization pugs: only an issue when there aren’t too many condition users, which usually isn’t a problem.
High DPS groups: condi’s don’t work well here, since enemies usually die in a few seconds anyway.

So the necro is like a car with 3 wheels and is fine if you have it on the “3 wheeled car championship”, but on a serious race, it just … bad.

edit: If the mobs EHP will change (higher armor, lower hp), condi players dps will be improved actually.

edit2: Rampager should be on par with dps with Berserker (after a tweak, main precision stat is just stupid), because its the other set full of offensive stats, but that lacks the oomph.

He wasnt used for weakness because at scale 80 im fairly sure you got 1 shot even with weakness and prot up. CC is incredibly underated atm. But the top players know exactly how valuable it is, especially in fractals (even now).

At scale 80 dredge fractal, direct damage is incredibly weak due to how much armour and prot the dredge have. So condition damage + epidemic becomes incredibly powerful at cutting the time down on that fractal. I dont remember the exact difference but they said clown car took about 40mins without the necro and 20 mins when they had the necro.

Bare in mind this is an extreme situation where condi damage is good and its no longer accessible so yeah.

Anyway despite my guild being a speedrun guild we dont discriminate classes, we value skill over class. So in casual runs and fractals we dont care what class you bring. The only time we specify classes is if we are doing records or trying something specific.

Spoj, are you still using the build from the guide in your signature? Just a noob looking for answers

Yep still using that build but ill be honest I rarely have a reason to play necro when i have more fun and can be more useful with my other 6 classes.

spoj.9672:

Yep still using that build but ill be honest I rarely have a reason to play necro when i have more fun and can be more useful with my other 6 classes.

So you still don’t have a ranger? FILTHY ELITIST! -wink wink-

It will happen eventually but leveling just drives me insane and i only just finished leveling engi the other week. xD