Guild Wars 2

in wvw, as a thief, i can burst people down in 5-10 seconds with ease, but on my conditionmancer, im lucky to stack 5 bleeds in half a minute only to have them remove/heal right back. its been 3 months, no change… im in a guild of 500 with 100+ online 24/7, only 7 active necros… does everyone else have the same problem for wvw? or have you found an actual viable build? Arenanet let me tell you on behalf of my entire guild, conditonmancer is an absolute joke in wvw. at the very least make bleeds stack faster, its extremely fustrating to be burst downed in seconds and see only 3 stacks of bleed on your enemy and they are nearly full health… If you are not changing anything, at least tell us so we can reroll another class… im sorry for the rant but ive waited 3 months, ive had enough.

What weapons and build are you using? I’m focused entirely on w3 with my Necro and Mesmer, and the condition Necro is absolutely strong in large battles.

Personally i still find them weak even in large battles. Conditionmancers rely to much on epidemic which can be easily counterd by a guardian using his shouts and the thingy that turns conditions into buffs. Rarley do i ever kill people by using epidemic. . . it does deal damage but it doesnt kill and more often then not it gets cleansed in a matter of seconds. I mean, i get my whole combo off and use nearly every skill i have and it can be counterd by pressing 2 buttons that both have a 60sec cd untraited.
So yeah, i mostly sit with my necro in yaks overlook and treb SM to take a wall down for the heck of it.

Gluttony.2017:

Personally i still find them weak even in large battles. Conditionmancers rely to much on epidemic which can be easily counterd by a guardian using his shouts and the thingy that turns conditions into buffs. Rarley do i ever kill people by using epidemic. . . it does deal damage but it doesnt kill and more often then not it gets cleansed in a matter of seconds. I mean, i get my whole combo off and use nearly every skill i have and it can be counterd by pressing 2 buttons that both have a 60sec cd untraited.
So yeah, i mostly sit with my necro in yaks overlook and treb SM to take a wall down for the heck of it.

No matter what profession and ability combo you want to propose, Necro’s have the ability to put out more conditions much, much quicker than they can be cleansed.

100+ members, 20 online 24/7, I’m the only active necromancer. One of my guildies rolled a necro alt only to troll the guildmaster who can’t stand the buzzing sound of the locust swarm.

Gluttony.2017:

Personally i still find them weak even in large battles. Conditionmancers rely to much on epidemic which can be easily counterd by a guardian using his shouts and the thingy that turns conditions into buffs. Rarley do i ever kill people by using epidemic. . . it does deal damage but it doesnt kill and more often then not it gets cleansed in a matter of seconds. I mean, i get my whole combo off and use nearly every skill i have and it can be counterd by pressing 2 buttons that both have a 60sec cd untraited.
So yeah, i mostly sit with my necro in yaks overlook and treb SM to take a wall down for the heck of it.

yeah true, also in 1v1 fights more importantly, a thief bursting me down in 5 seconds whilst i stack only 3 bleed on him, and he just heal/cleanse it off… he dodges out of all my aoes cuz scepter/dagger aoes takes years to cast, so im forced to use my staff, and trying kill someone with a staff is a joke. warriors with dual swords can stack up to 18 stacks in seconds, necro probably 12 max and takes 3 times as long to stack. im forced to use power necro build for wvw and if arenanet thinks thats a solution (just wait for people to adapt and ditch the fail builds) then i have no comment. dont get me wrong, i love the damage of bleeds, but the stacks LITERALLY take forever to stack up, when they do, they get cleansed…

alanis.6094:

No matter what profession and ability combo you want to propose, Necro’s have the ability to put out more conditions much, much quicker than they can be cleansed.

+1

I have some tutorials for necromancer WvW alongside an example sustaining my theory. Maybe they will give you a new perspective on WvW and what winning actually is.
They are on this forum in the sticky at the top “Necromancer tutorials”.

alanis.6094:

No matter what profession and ability combo you want to propose, Necro’s have the ability to put out more conditions much, much quicker than they can be cleansed.

overall various conditions yes, but the main condition: bleed. which is required to kill people if you are bleedmancer, is extremely weak in terms of stacking speed compared to say, a warrior using dual swords + quickness. in small fights like 1v1s the main problem with bleedmancers is that scepter/dagger skills cast times are far, far too long, 9/10 times by the time my bleed aoes hit the ground, the enemy is already meters away from that aoe location, plus the lag in wvw, i literally have to predict 2-3 seconds into the future of where the enemy will be standing and that is what i call broken. with those skills being useless, it all comes down to the autoattack bleed, which is so, so weak. blood is power takes like a minute to do its full damage, when a thief can burst me down in under 10 seconds its useless. the damage is great, because in pve when i can actually aoe the mobs, they die pretty quick, so the problem im having is that in wvw the aoes can be dodge without even making the effort to dodge them…… even if i hit the bleed straight on target, it takes a bloody long time to tick away its full damage and in that time it will definitely either be healed or cleansed… whilst the enemy has already dished out 20k+ normal damage and im getting stomped… right now im being forced to play powermancer/shroudmancer with axes and daggers which is alright

Bro, you’re doing it wrong… Check the tutorials.

If you’re not reading the tutorials/spend all you’re time complaining you’re going to have a bad time

Odd that people are forever moaning the necros suck. I’ve always found him to be just fine (ok not wow) at pretty much everything. My mainly condition-built necro is fine at wvw. He can take on most players 1v1 even 2v1 with his two health bars and some actual skill and quick reflexes. I hardly ever die in wvw and with spec walk you can change that to never. Necro bleed is strong but for goodness sake it’s not his staple skill or anything like that. He’s never going to one shot another player, barring the odd unsuspecting ele, but your thief will never dish out the AOE condition madness he does. And, better yet, he will never be a necromancer ;-D

Necro is fine if you're a casual.

Savan.8495:

If you’re not reading the tutorials/spend all you’re time complaining you’re going to have a bad time

ive seen the tutorials and ive personally played necro for nearly 3 months, i know the class inside out, ive tried everything. In large zergs necros are pretty good support but when it comes to 1v1s with burst classes like thief, bleedmancer is a joke. you guys telling me to l2p clearly dont get my point, im NOT saying necro sucks overall, the power or hybrid builds are not bad however i am NOT willing to be forced to run those builds just to be viable… if i wanted some burst power build, why would i play necro when i can play warrior? bleed builds should be extremely viable, if you take a look at warriors with dual swords, they can stack up 18 stacks in seconds, but necro cant even dream of doing that… then theres all the cleansing and heals, completely eliminates all damage from a bleedmancer. im only complaining because i do not want to give up on a build which i think has a lot of potential, i dont want to switch to power build like all my guildies did… and like i said before, the bleed damage is good, but the problem is getting the bleed aoes to hit (casting time is sooooo kitten long, the enemy can literally walk out of the area before the aoe completes) and stacking bleed needs to be much faster like the warriors dual swords at the very very least

Why are you using 1v1s to complain about wvw?

alanis.6094:

Why are you using 1v1s to complain about wvw?

have you played wvw? its not all zergs 24/7 you know? im not complaining about wvw? im specifically addressing the bleed build of the necromancer class for wvw situations…

SpedalFlux.1520:

alanis.6094:

Why are you using 1v1s to complain about wvw?

have you played wvw? its not all zergs 24/7 you know? im not complaining about wvw? im specifically addressing the bleed build of the necromancer class for wvw situations…

W3 is pretty much all zerg, or chaotic rush fests marred by technical limitations of the rendering engine, and five target limitations on AoEs, which further lends itself to just throwing mass numbers at people. The 1v1, 1v2 or whatever fights quoted further up are largely irrelevant when talking W3 because it’s really not what it is about.

Time To Live in W3 engagements is so short that anything outside of burst damage is largely irrelevant. By the time you get around to stacking a few bleed stacks on a target, it will have been dropped to the floor by all the AoE flying around.

Aexrael.5918

Time To Live in W3 engagements is so short that anything outside of burst damage is largely irrelevant. By the time you get around to stacking a few bleed stacks on a target, it will have been dropped to the floor by all the AoE flying around.

This. A conditionmancer has a ramp up time (stacking bleeds). By the time you begin doing damage that other classes do from time zero, your target is either already dead or performing a stomp on you.

Weather this happens in 1v1 or zerg vs zerg is irrelevant.

I think we’ve identified the real issue here.

> Thieves taking people out in 5-10 seconds.

SpedalFlux.1520:

Savan.8495:

If you’re not reading the tutorials/spend all you’re time complaining you’re going to have a bad time

ive seen the tutorials and ive personally played necro for nearly 3 months, i know the class inside out, ive tried everything. In large zergs necros are pretty good support but when it comes to 1v1s with burst classes like thief, bleedmancer is a joke. you guys telling me to l2p clearly dont get my point, im NOT saying necro sucks overall, the power or hybrid builds are not bad however i am NOT willing to be forced to run those builds just to be viable… if i wanted some burst power build, why would i play necro when i can play warrior? bleed builds should be extremely viable, if you take a look at warriors with dual swords, they can stack up 18 stacks in seconds, but necro cant even dream of doing that… then theres all the cleansing and heals, completely eliminates all damage from a bleedmancer. im only complaining because i do not want to give up on a build which i think has a lot of potential, i dont want to switch to power build like all my guildies did… and like i said before, the bleed damage is good, but the problem is getting the bleed aoes to hit (casting time is sooooo kitten long, the enemy can literally walk out of the area before the aoe completes) and stacking bleed needs to be much faster like the warriors dual swords at the very very least

Wow I wrote that as a joke, but since you plan on taking things seriously here’s a couple of things wrong with your post

Congrats youve played a necro for 3 months (so has most of the community)

Yes Warriors/Rangers can stack bleeds fast but they don’t offer the same condition control we have (consume conditions, plague signet, dagger 4, epidemic to name a few)

Certain specs furfil roles better than others do, power builds are aimed at single target dps, condition builds are generally thought of as more aoe orientated and it is here where they excel

What is this cast time you mention? Marks? nope thats pretty quick – oh wait you’re talking about epidemic? yeh the cast time really long (2 secs? lol). Do you realise how short the cooldown is (traited), I would rather have the latter – ether way its devastating in an aoe situation – i.e. where we excel

Walking out of aoe before it hits? Try being an elementalist with dragon tooth

You can lock down a enemy in wells with slows/stuns

Getting 2 shotted by a thief – role a tank spec

The possibilities are truly endless

As a final note, since you know the class ‘inside n out’ you should try spending some time on other class forums, you will see the same complaints just from a different perspective

Every class is OP but mine….. yes it really is……

SpedalFlux.1520:

alanis.6094:

Why are you using 1v1s to complain about wvw?

have you played wvw?

Of course, that’s why I’m not the one saying that the part of the game we shine is a problem.

its not all zergs 24/7 you know?

Its not, but it is very, very rarely 1v1.

im not complaining about wvw? im specifically addressing the bleed build of the necromancer class for wvw situations…

Please refer to your thread title.

pmargeti.7680:

Aexrael.5918

Time To Live in W3 engagements is so short that anything outside of burst damage is largely irrelevant. By the time you get around to stacking a few bleed stacks on a target, it will have been dropped to the floor by all the AoE flying around.

This. A conditionmancer has a ramp up time (stacking bleeds). By the time you begin doing damage that other classes do from time zero, your target is either already dead or performing a stomp on you.

Weather this happens in 1v1 or zerg vs zerg is irrelevant.

They should give us the option of doing our bleed damage from a farther distance that it would take for those other classes burst damage. Oh wait…

Conditionmancers do well in 1 v 1’s or small scale but when it comes to stuff like attacking garrisons or such, theres so much passive condition removal floating around the chances of conditions sticking to your target arnt good.

Conditionmancers do excel at supply camp raiding with a bunker though, maybe that would be a better role when playing your necro?

alanis.6094

They should give us the option of doing our bleed damage from a farther distance that it would take for those other classes burst damage. Oh wait…

>>implying other classes only do burst damage at point blank
>>implying 900 range keeps necromancers safe
>>implying thieves are fine

OP, you have to understand that every build has it’s strengths and weaknesses. I’m citing typical examples: 1. Bunker – Strong support/survivability, poor DPS. 2. Glass Cannon – Amazing DPS, poor survivability, and et cetera et cetera.

You have to know the strengths and weaknesses of your own build. After you realize that, pick your fights wisely.

Now about your build, we still havent seen your build so we cant point out what could be improved. However, I can cite two typical conditionomancer builds and what you have to look out for.

1. Rabid build – Precision, Toughness, Condition Damage: Your damage against structures and burst damage is going to be pathetic. DS does not synergise well with this build, IMO, as power is weak. Toughness is good, but survivability comes in two flavours, toughness and vitality, and one without the other is not effective. I used to roll with this build but lost interest because I couldnt use DS to its full potential.

2. Carrion build – Power, Vitality, Condition Damage: Now I roll with the “hybrid” build, and the results have been very interesting. There are certain tweaks you can make to this cookie cutter build, but if you do it right, your DS will be pretty decent (1k base damage for autoattacks, lifeblast criting for 3-4k), and my conditions can tick for 145 in my complete gear. Base HP is 23k. I do decently with structures, I hardly die now in W3 (’cause I also pick my fights wisely), and I shine particularly in sieges or siege defences.

I’ve played for 2 months now, and I’ve finally found a build I love, but more importantly, I know my role in W3 – I support my bursty friends, I’m a crowd thinner, I pick on the weak, I am that filter course everyone hated in University. Anyone that goes down is instantly hit with BiP, anyone who tries to save him gets Epidemic; I do the same to ranger pets. If I cant get the ranger himself, his pet will bring home a nasty surprise for him. Being hybrid, I can survive well against thiefs and mesmers, though I still find them a challenge. One thing I realized about the scepter (same for axe) is that you need a target to attack. It’s unlike the dagger (less staff due to attack speed) that can hit even without a target. Most thiefs are melee, so daggers can hit them if they’re close. Make use of your marks wisely, especially to protect your back in such cases. Use DS properly – a thief’s bane is chill.

Necros feel underpowered now because of all the bugs and mismatched traits (I’ve made the best out of my situation and I am happy), but it has a lot of potential, and I am sure that with minor balances and fixed bugs, Necros will be a hard hard profession to kill.

(Edited base HP)

I’ve found the only thing that really works is a full power/crit build. I did the condition thing and tried hybrid for a while (rabid/carrion), but a 30/0/10/0/30 with berserkers and ruby orbs just rocks (invader dagger/warhorn). I run dagger/warhorn and staff with full spectral skills (armor, walk, grasp). Life force builds up incredibly quick, life blast crits 5-8k, and dagger chains with crits can do almost 7k. I usually do fine in 2v1s and have a pretty good win rate in 3v1s against 80s. With exotic/fotm gear and food, I end up with about 20k hp, 2400 power, 50% crit chance, and 120% crit damage