Guild Wars 2

Never have i met a warrior in wvw so superior, hammer + mace build stun/knockdown!!

You would think staff – s/d would be to my benefit as longrange, just couldnt nuke cond on him.

Even with full stunbreak skillbar and elite did i managed to escape from 24/7 stun and knockdown.

How do we necros counter such a warrior build.
Casue god forbid me to run with full skillbar stunbreaks just for the sake of that build!
Or is that our ultimate weakness.

Pretend you commit suicide jumping from cliff, and when warrior follow you – activate spectral walk

Take your armor and weapons off and just accept the fact your life is over.

I was in sPvP and I don’t really die easily to anyone even though I’m only rank 27. I came across a full stun build warrior the other day and I have a stun-break with flesh worm.

After my stun break was gone and my Fears was on CD I couldn’t do ANYTHING. His healing signet was healing him for more than my bleeds, as little as I could put on him, we’re doing. and he wasn’t even a high rank warrior!

Not that this makes me want to rage quit or anything I just think stun should be a condition like fear and immobilize.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Pretend you commit suicide jumping from cliff, and when warrior follow you – activate spectral walk

well there are 2 types of spectral walks.
1. activate from a cliff and wp back up
2. when your about to hit the ground you double tap spectral and get a smooth landing=P

good ide though, but not when your doing fair and square duel=P

youlostthegame.8102:

Take your armor and weapons off and just accept the fact your life is over.

Thats whut i did after i lost a 5/5 duels against him , on my knees hands down admitting defeat!

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Pretend you commit suicide jumping from cliff, and when warrior follow you – activate spectral walk

lol there you have it, the counter to stun warriors is to make them jump off a cliff xD

Seriously though, usually a fight against stun warriors goes like this:
First you lay some conditions on them, when they feel you’ve exhausted a good amount of skills on that: Berserker Stance. Followed up by a huge stun sequence.
So during that time you won’t be able to defend yourself at all. You can’t fear them away, you can’t blind or weaken them… you just have to get through those 8 seconds without taking too much damage and blowing any of your skills in panic.
What you need to do in preperation for that is:
Slot Spectral Armor, have a 50-100% full lf pool, don’t use any skills with 30+sec cd before they enter their op-mode. Then after they land the first stun, activate Spectral Armor and go into Death Shroud… and just stop attacking, even save up your endurance a little for later.
When his Berserker stance is over, you have to land a gigantic burst yourself to turn the pressure back on him, also kite and dodge like a baws.

Overall, you have to accept the fact that stun warriors just are a good counter to necros.

flow.6043:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Pretend you commit suicide jumping from cliff, and when warrior follow you – activate spectral walk

lol there you have it, the counter to stun warriors is to make them jump off a cliff xD

Seriously though, usually a fight against stun warriors goes like this:
First you lay some conditions on them, when they feel you’ve exhausted a good amount of skills on that: Berserker Stance. Followed up by a huge stun sequence.
So during that time you won’t be able to defend yourself at all. You can’t fear them away, you can’t blind or weaken them… you just have to get through those 8 seconds without taking too much damage and blowing any of your skills in panic.
What you need to do in preperation for that is:
Slot Spectral Armor, have a 50-100% full lf pool, don’t use any skills with 30+sec cd before they enter their op-mode. Then after they land the first stun, activate Spectral Armor and go into Death Shroud… and just stop attacking, even save up your endurance a little for later.
When his Berserker stance is over, you have to land a gigantic burst yourself to turn the pressure back on him, also kite and dodge like a baws.

Overall, you have to accept the fact that stun warriors just are a good counter to necros.

its just sick when they go into Op mode, and the warrior i dueled did a good amount of dmg aswell ripped my 25 k hp and 2.7k armor and full ds is no time. tried to plague him a bit but that didnt work.

flow.6043:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Pretend you commit suicide jumping from cliff, and when warrior follow you – activate spectral walk

lol there you have it, the counter to stun warriors is to make them jump off a cliff xD

Seriously though, usually a fight against stun warriors goes like this:
First you lay some conditions on them, when they feel you’ve exhausted a good amount of skills on that: Berserker Stance. Followed up by a huge stun sequence.
So during that time you won’t be able to defend yourself at all. You can’t fear them away, you can’t blind or weaken them… you just have to get through those 8 seconds without taking too much damage and blowing any of your skills in panic.
What you need to do in preperation for that is:
Slot Spectral Armor, have a 50-100% full lf pool, don’t use any skills with 30+sec cd before they enter their op-mode. Then after they land the first stun, activate Spectral Armor and go into Death Shroud… and just stop attacking, even save up your endurance a little for later.
When his Berserker stance is over, you have to land a gigantic burst yourself to turn the pressure back on him, also kite and dodge like a baws.

Overall, you have to accept the fact that stun warriors just are a good counter to necros.

Exactly what flow said… but there is a problem with that as well.
Most medium-skill warriors would kill a medium skill necromancer with that combo… you have to be high skill to survive… but once you are high skilled you can take out that warrior because you have outskilled him.

Here comes the problem though… really skilled warriors that don’t automatically assume the necromancer is a free kill (the warriors in top 500 on the leaderboards), they do that combo as well… but they save either immunity, or their dodges or their block all attacks + some cleanses for once they are done…
They know that if they don’t win with OP mode on, they are vulnerable… and the skilled necromancer might counter… so what they do they put block up… run away, dodge twice and get into loss if possible or find a team member. By that time their OP-mode is almost off of CD… and here we go again, you have done nothing…

The everlasting problem… If i am good, i get a chance to not die now… so i can not die later…
I wish they would have given us what i suggested for DS 5, instead of torment… my suggestion was better.

Well you obviously have to stay out of melee range; to achieve this I usually just need the locust signet and Flesh Wurm. Also bring Corrupt boon to counter their Stability.

When they pop berserker stance, just run. They may use Bulls Charge to catch up with you, but luckily it’s the easiest skill to dodge in the game and they just wasted a utility slot, congrats. Quickly place your wurm on a ledge somewhere or just at max range, and then you kite them. If they manage to land a stun while still in Zerk stance, just wurm teleport out of there. If they catch up with you again after you teleport, their Zerker stance is over. Use your chills and cripples. Load them up with conditions. They barely have any condition removal skills so you should be able to kite them easily. Save corrupt boon for when they use stability, and if they do you can chain fear them and most likely kill them. Don’t forget that you can use your Deathly Swarm just for the blind; it can save you from an Earthshaker if you’re out of endurance.

An effective combo if you happen to be in melee range is to blind them (avoiding the stun), scepter 2, go into DS and use DS 2 & 3, wait a couple of seconds and then use DS 5. If you know you have weapon swap on cooldown you can also use DS 4 and wait a couple of seconds. When you exit DS, switch weapons for Geomancy proc, and then staff 2 followed by staff 3 and/or staff 5. This can easily load them up with ~15 stacks of bleeding, burning, 3-5s of fear, 3 stacks of torment, weakness, cripple, chill and immobilize.

No Necro is going to counter stun warriors. Not without Greater Marks. And having a bugged staff that put marks on full CD when interrupted instead of the usual 4 seconds only adds insult to injury. At best, you can only survive the encounter. If you do kill a stun warrior, its because they let you by not resetting the fight or they lack the experience to properly abuse the build. At any rate, as long as Berserker Stance is on CD, you should never be a feel kill.

Or we could just say Berserker Stance is a broken skill that auto-counters necro until they fix it.

As for the stuns, kiting and dodging has always been the big counter against warriors due to their move predictability. Unfortunately as a class with the least access to vigor and no traits that help how often you can dodge, that makes it tougher for necros to do. However you do have a skill combo that works pretty well – Well of Power (pun intended). It’s a 5 second counter to stun warrior builds as you can’t be knocked down or stunned in it on top of also being a stun break. Use Blood is Power to give yourself that troublesome buff of vigor so you can now dodge more often once that Well wears out. If you can’t bring the fight in your favor with the well and vigor against a warrior, then he’s the better player.

And if you’re a power necro: Lich Form. Heck, it’s not bad on a condition necro either as it’ll still put him on the defensive with damage that’s still respectable and 5 jagged horrors that can lay on bleeds… I just wouldn’t normally slot this on a condition necro unless you’re having serious issues with a CC enemy.

Plague Form is ok – but it’s only an OS defensive button as you’re not going to be killing anything in it. Beautiful for getting past a zerg into a keep. Could also be used as a respite for cooldowns (toughness + vit + blinds makes it a tanky form), but your DS is better for that.

So are you SOL against stun warriors? Hardly. It’s just that you have to build against them, or they WILL roflstomp you. Berserker Stance is the real breaker, and once they fix that, I’d consider stun warriors fair fight.

I don’t think berserker stance is broken, although it feels like too forced as a counter to conditions. And stun is ok too as it can be snared, CC, kite. I believe the problem is healing signet. It pretty much ignores small conditions. When you unload the strong ones, they just pop berserker stance. So both “small” and “big” conditions won’t do much.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Isn’t this why the dev’s were giggling about war vs necro? Why they said they are out nemesis.
War’s are the most played class. They were upset they weren’t as powerful at PvP as PvE.

I thought the class vid’s highlighted this awesomely,
war, 2 giggling dev’s showing of a few builds in PvP.
Necro, no traits in LA, pointing at some runes in a bag & saying go heal power…

Bweaty.9187:

Isn’t this why the dev’s were giggling about war vs necro? Why they said they are out nemesis.
War’s are the most played class. They were upset they weren’t as powerful at PvP as PvE.

I thought the class vid’s highlighted this awesomely,
war, 2 giggling dev’s showing of a few builds in PvP.
Necro, no traits in LA, pointing at some runes in a bag & saying go heal power…

lol really? I need to see that video.

War:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOmvsuZlJGo

Necro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIXkonwEi-s

Bweaty.9187:

War:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOmvsuZlJGo

Necro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIXkonwEi-s

What? PvP warrior video vs PvE necro?

Minion necro running the 30 in death with the poison aoe on minion death is a perfect counter to warriors running the signet heal. Haven’t lost a 1v1 or even a 1v2 to warriors when I run minions with the trait.

Fyi, I hate minions but it works.

Hydro sigils, Well of Darkness, 30 in Spite, 10 in Curses, 30 in SR, Plague.

Drawing Guy.3701:

Or we could just say Berserker Stance is a broken skill that auto-counters necro until they fix it.

As for the stuns, kiting and dodging has always been the big counter against warriors due to their move predictability. Unfortunately as a class with the least access to vigor and no traits that help how often you can dodge, that makes it tougher for necros to do. However you do have a skill combo that works pretty well – Well of Power (pun intended). It’s a 5 second counter to stun warrior builds as you can’t be knocked down or stunned in it on top of also being a stun break. Use Blood is Power to give yourself that troublesome buff of vigor so you can now dodge more often once that Well wears out. If you can’t bring the fight in your favor with the well and vigor against a warrior, then he’s the better player.

And if you’re a power necro: Lich Form. Heck, it’s not bad on a condition necro either as it’ll still put him on the defensive with damage that’s still respectable and 5 jagged horrors that can lay on bleeds… I just wouldn’t normally slot this on a condition necro unless you’re having serious issues with a CC enemy.

Plague Form is ok – but it’s only an OS defensive button as you’re not going to be killing anything in it. Beautiful for getting past a zerg into a keep. Could also be used as a respite for cooldowns (toughness + vit + blinds makes it a tanky form), but your DS is better for that.

So are you SOL against stun warriors? Hardly. It’s just that you have to build against them, or they WILL roflstomp you. Berserker Stance is the real breaker, and once they fix that, I’d consider stun warriors fair fight.

Hahahahaha, have you even played a warrior?

Any decently played/specced warrior will never lose to a necro.

Well of power/blood is power combo? It just prolongs the battle for the warrior for 5 seconds. They just GS out of combat with their mobility for 5 seconds. You cant get away, you cant catch them, necros are just sloths at speed. Same goes for lich form and plague, they will just wait it out with their insane mobility.

Most stun warriors also spec 20 into defense for cleansing ire and dogged march. A combination of this and the greatsword removes any chance of you even trying to kite them, regardless of the two lackluster teleports necro have (spec walk and wurm). When the warrior stuns you, and they will, they remove 1-3 conditions and stuns you for 3.5 seconds with mace. The burst comes after with the GS which will do anywhere from 10k-16k hp depending on the warriors skill.

As for utilities, warriors can typically run zerker stance, signet of stamina, balanced stance, or another stun utility.

Most warriors also use a mace/shield combo. If you manage to remove their stability, they will just bunker with defense mode. shield 5 and in case of emergencies, swap to GS and create space until their CD is up again.

You will never kill a decent warrior, you may beat (or maybe kill) low skilled warriors, but most will just run away with GS and come back at you again.

Btw, I have a warrior too and necros are just free kills.

Edit: oh i forgot to mention runes, if they run melandru or lyssa you are even more out of luck.

Kite a knockdown/stun warrior is easier said than done ! the cd on those knockdowns and stuns are just sick!
if you ever meet such a warrior, they will probably be tanky aswell.

all they need to do is dodge dodge stun/knockdown, wich you gonna counter with stunbreakers or ds. and on top of that once we get out of that they just go into block mode and then knockdown you once again.

But i sure like the ide of cripple and freezing the hell out of them!

^

It may be true that I may never beat a high skilled warrior, but for every warrior I’ve met in wvw, I must have never met a high skilled warrior.

The way you describe Necros it’s as if they don’t dodge, slow or use fear on you. These hypothetical fights people describe are usually absurdly one sided and this one is no different. Also not sure how it helps the OP, or serves any function but to fluff your ego.

hyman.7526:

Any decently played/specced warrior will never lose to a necro.
…

You will never kill a decent warrior, you may beat (or maybe kill) low skilled warriors, but most will just run away with GS and come back at you again.

Btw, I have a warrior too and necros are just free kills.

Edit: oh i forgot to mention runes, if they run melandru or lyssa you are even more out of luck.

Not true.

You’re assuming that every necro runs a condition build. I grant you that there’s some type of rock-paper-scissor sutuation going on against condimancers here.
But I play hybrid, and I know some seriously good power necros as well, they have even less problems with having their condis cleansed.
I duel warriors on a regular basis and in my experience the fight is about even if I start with ~70% life force. If I don’t bother getting more than just 20% by desummoning two minions I usually lose.

hyman.7526:

Drawing Guy.3701:

Or we could just say Berserker Stance is a broken skill that auto-counters necro until they fix it.

As for the stuns, kiting and dodging has always been the big counter against warriors due to their move predictability. Unfortunately as a class with the least access to vigor and no traits that help how often you can dodge, that makes it tougher for necros to do. However you do have a skill combo that works pretty well – Well of Power (pun intended). It’s a 5 second counter to stun warrior builds as you can’t be knocked down or stunned in it on top of also being a stun break. Use Blood is Power to give yourself that troublesome buff of vigor so you can now dodge more often once that Well wears out. If you can’t bring the fight in your favor with the well and vigor against a warrior, then he’s the better player.

And if you’re a power necro: Lich Form. Heck, it’s not bad on a condition necro either as it’ll still put him on the defensive with damage that’s still respectable and 5 jagged horrors that can lay on bleeds… I just wouldn’t normally slot this on a condition necro unless you’re having serious issues with a CC enemy.

Plague Form is ok – but it’s only an OS defensive button as you’re not going to be killing anything in it. Beautiful for getting past a zerg into a keep. Could also be used as a respite for cooldowns (toughness + vit + blinds makes it a tanky form), but your DS is better for that.

So are you SOL against stun warriors? Hardly. It’s just that you have to build against them, or they WILL roflstomp you. Berserker Stance is the real breaker, and once they fix that, I’d consider stun warriors fair fight.

Hahahahaha, have you even played a warrior?

Any decently played/specced warrior will never lose to a necro.

Well of power/blood is power combo? It just prolongs the battle for the warrior for 5 seconds. They just GS out of combat with their mobility for 5 seconds. You cant get away, you cant catch them, necros are just sloths at speed. Same goes for lich form and plague, they will just wait it out with their insane mobility.

Most stun warriors also spec 20 into defense for cleansing ire and dogged march. A combination of this and the greatsword removes any chance of you even trying to kite them, regardless of the two lackluster teleports necro have (spec walk and wurm). When the warrior stuns you, and they will, they remove 1-3 conditions and stuns you for 3.5 seconds with mace. The burst comes after with the GS which will do anywhere from 10k-16k hp depending on the warriors skill.

As for utilities, warriors can typically run zerker stance, signet of stamina, balanced stance, or another stun utility.

Most warriors also use a mace/shield combo. If you manage to remove their stability, they will just bunker with defense mode. shield 5 and in case of emergencies, swap to GS and create space until their CD is up again.

You will never kill a decent warrior, you may beat (or maybe kill) low skilled warriors, but most will just run away with GS and come back at you again.

Btw, I have a warrior too and necros are just free kills.

Edit: oh i forgot to mention runes, if they run melandru or lyssa you are even more out of luck.

Exactly what i said…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/How-to-counter-stun-locking-warriors/first#post2494724

You people need to learn to play, really. Necromancer is one of the best professions in the game and I am tired of seeing these threads.

I play a Necromancer in SPVP and I don’t think i’ve ever lost to a Warrior, I lose to thieves, but not Warriors. Sure they can run away, but there is No way a stun locking warrior can do enough damage to me to kill me. Not 1v1 anyways.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doom

Every necromancer should have this.

You are overestimating things.

mace/shield+GS have 100b burst but there isn’t that many stun. 100b’s channel time is around 3,4s. I didn’t stop watch but it’s around that. To successfully pull that off, they need full skull crack. And it is not that fast to gain that amount of adrenaline especially in kiting situation. So in 1v1 situation, the CD of our stunbreaker should be enough to deal with that amount of stuns.

mace/shield+hammer has more stuns, but at the same time doesn’t have that 100b burst. It’s trickier in group fight. But in 1v1, it might not have the dps to penetrate necro’s rabid armor.

edited.

Skaelman.9526:

Never have i met a warrior in wvw so superior, hammer + mace build stun/knockdown!!

You would think staff – s/d would be to my benefit as longrange, just couldnt nuke cond on him.

Even with full stunbreak skillbar and elite did i managed to escape from 24/7 stun and knockdown.

How do we necros counter such a warrior build.
Casue god forbid me to run with full skillbar stunbreaks just for the sake of that build!
Or is that our ultimate weakness.

I made this picture that may help you.

Daecollo.9578:

Skaelman.9526:

Never have i met a warrior in wvw so superior, hammer + mace build stun/knockdown!!

You would think staff – s/d would be to my benefit as longrange, just couldnt nuke cond on him.

Even with full stunbreak skillbar and elite did i managed to escape from 24/7 stun and knockdown.

How do we necros counter such a warrior build.
Casue god forbid me to run with full skillbar stunbreaks just for the sake of that build!
Or is that our ultimate weakness.

I made this picture that may help you.

What!? the aoe ring has puzzle pieces in it?

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

What? PvP warrior video vs PvE necro?

They were released around the same time. I think even there PvE war guide, from the guy who did our necro one, was more in depth. Tips for getting extra condi dam out of a power build that did bleeds while not losing out on power stats.

I think it’s awesome that they take the time out, to show there vision/ideas. I think the war video particularly was awesome.

Anyway, I was just trying to say, I think war’s are suppose to destroy us in PvP by design. Think the dev’s said something about given the tools to train us.

I personally felt that the PvP Intern finals summed it up for us nicely. Every time they said ‘oh the necro’s going to do something very powerful here’ they didn’t finish the sentence before saying ‘oh no, he’s dead’

That was my take on it anyway. Also good and funny vid. Was awesome to see Chaplin awake and alive! The dev that got mugged by a baby goat, is the guy dealing with necro bug list.

I’m not trying to cat about war vs necro. I’m simply saying I think it just is.

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/How-to-counter-stun-locking-warriors/first#post2494724

You people need to learn to play, really. Necromancer is one of the best professions in the game and I am tired of seeing these threads.

I play a Necromancer in SPVP and I don’t think i’ve ever lost to a Warrior, I lose to thieves, but not Warriors. Sure they can run away, but there is No way a stun locking warrior can do enough damage to me to kill me. Not 1v1 anyways.

It’s different in wvw, the stats cap is MUCH higher, and it’s easier to gain offensive than defensive stats.

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/How-to-counter-stun-locking-warriors/first#post2494724

You people need to learn to play, really. Necromancer is one of the best professions in the game and I am tired of seeing these threads.

I play a Necromancer in SPVP and I don’t think i’ve ever lost to a Warrior, I lose to thieves, but not Warriors. Sure they can run away, but there is No way a stun locking warrior can do enough damage to me to kill me. Not 1v1 anyways.

You shouldn’t say that… especially since you are not even in top 1000 in TPvP. There are better PvP necromancers out there then the both of us and there are much better warriors out there then you have seen yet…

Daecollo.9578:

Skaelman.9526:

Never have i met a warrior in wvw so superior, hammer + mace build stun/knockdown!!

You would think staff – s/d would be to my benefit as longrange, just couldnt nuke cond on him.

Even with full stunbreak skillbar and elite did i managed to escape from 24/7 stun and knockdown.

How do we necros counter such a warrior build.
Casue god forbid me to run with full skillbar stunbreaks just for the sake of that build!
Or is that our ultimate weakness.

I made this picture that may help you.

Not to disrupt the picture, but MM are kinda the same as trying to say the old duel mesmers werent op in 1v1. Especially vs a warrior, ranger and the old dd ele.
Still it is true that Necro build adaptability could be a massive help (if only we could swap utilites in combat but with the trade in that it starts on a 20~ sec cooldown).
Better compare a warrior to power necro 1v1, with 15 in SR and Sarmor, then both professions rely on cheezy bad skill design making you invul for half the fight instead of actual positioning or skill X3