Guild Wars 2

Okay so I decided necro is my next 80 and so far I’m really liking the d/d play style, but I have no idea about how viable it’ll be at 80 nor any good builds for it. So will it be viable? traits to focus on?

Off hand dagger is somewhat …. err… not all that great offset for mh dagger. Simply because first relies exclusively on power while other is pretty much condition related almost exclusively. First is melee second is far from melee. Etc. Then again oh dagger can be used simply as defensive alternative to focus/warhorn. Tho either focus of wh provide a lot more for melee. Wh being a more of a roaming necessity while focus just being awesome.

In PvE you should be using another OH, in PvP there is good reason to use a dagger offhand.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Off hand dagger is somewhat …. err… not all that great offset for mh dagger. Simply because first relies exclusively on power while other is pretty much condition related almost exclusively. First is melee second is far from melee. Etc. Then again oh dagger can be used simply as defensive alternative to focus/warhorn. Tho either focus of wh provide a lot more for melee. Wh being a more of a roaming necessity while focus just being awesome.

Thanks that does make sense. I don’t feel strongly about any offhands per say so I’ll toy around with ’em. I really love the life siphon reminds me of an affliction warlock to some extent so I really want to build mainly around that. Possible?

fizzypop.6458:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Off hand dagger is somewhat …. err… not all that great offset for mh dagger. Simply because first relies exclusively on power while other is pretty much condition related almost exclusively. First is melee second is far from melee. Etc. Then again oh dagger can be used simply as defensive alternative to focus/warhorn. Tho either focus of wh provide a lot more for melee. Wh being a more of a roaming necessity while focus just being awesome.

Thanks that does make sense. I don’t feel strongly about any offhands per say so I’ll toy around with ’em. I really love the life siphon reminds me of an affliction warlock to some extent so I really want to build mainly around that. Possible?

Absolutely. Dagger/Warhorn is pretty good, imo. The speed from Warhorn goes well with Dagger’s short range. The Blood tree has loads of siphon traits. Fiddle around with them to find the ones you like.

I always used D/D and I loved it. However I made the terrible mistake to reroll and I bought a focus instead (I farmed AC for tears to get the soldier stats) and I hate it.

Reaper’s Touch: Vulnerability is useless in PvE, trash mobs die to fast without it so is a waste if you use it on them and champs have Defiant which make it less effective on the only mobs on which my be useful. The bounces don’t work for me (yes, it work as intended but for me the mechanism is pretty lame).
The regeneration is nice but is not like I need it. Finally it can be easily dogde/missed and the worst, it’s single target and don’t allow you to tank several mobs at one.
Also, the trait related to focus don’t work on this.

Spinal Shivers: Chilled is as useless or more than vulnerability in PvE. Also, it have all the same weakness but at least, ST work on this.
And about the boons, not many mobs have boons so…

Now dagger: Both are multi-target. Dagger means melee so, applying blinding and weakness on several mobs is just the best (unlike vulnerability, these conditions are the best against trash mobs and both allow you to tank several mobs with pretty good AoE dmg). Also, transfer conditions are way more useful than regeneration IMO.
Finally, all trait related to daggers work on both.

In conclusion: You SHOULD use the one you like the most. I have no problems on any PvE aspect of the game (open world, dungeons, FotM) with D/D not with D/F but as I said, focus is not my style and I just love D/D.

daimasei.4091:

I always used D/D and I loved it. However I made the terrible mistake to reroll and I bought a focus instead (I farmed AC for tears to get the soldier stats) and I hate it.

Reaper’s Touch: Vulnerability is useless in PvE, trash mobs die to fast without it so is a waste if you use it on them and champs have Defiant which make it less effective on the only mobs on which my be useful. The bounces don’t work for me (yes, it work as intended but for me the mechanism is pretty lame).
The regeneration is nice but is not like I need it. Finally it can be easily dogde/missed and the worst, it’s single target and don’t allow you to tank several mobs at one.
Also, the trait related to focus don’t work on this.

Spinal Shivers: Chilled is as useless or more than vulnerability in PvE. Also, it have all the same weakness but at least, ST work on this.
And about the boons, not many mobs have boons so…

Now dagger: Both are multi-target. Dagger means melee so, applying blinding and weakness on several mobs is just the best (unlike vulnerability, these conditions are the best against trash mobs and both allow you to tank several mobs with pretty good AoE dmg). Also, transfer conditions are way more useful than regeneration IMO.
Finally, all trait related to daggers work on both.

In conclusion: You SHOULD use the one you like the most. I have no problems on any PvE aspect of the game (open world, dungeons, FotM) with D/D not with D/F but as I said, focus is not my style and I just love D/D.

I’m not sure you know what vulnerability is. Defiant stacks have absolutely no effect on it and it is ALWAYS useful in PvE due to the fact that every stack increases the damage of everyone hitting your target by %s related to the number of stacks. Also, it bounces to multiple targets – therefore it is AoE.

Now if you’re talking about solo’ing, you should draw a distinction between that and PvE.

Sannhet.8745:

I’m not sure you know what vulnerability is. Defiant stacks have absolutely no effect on it and it is ALWAYS useful in PvE due to the fact that every stack increases the damage of everyone hitting your target by %s related to the number of stacks. Also, it bounces to multiple targets – therefore it is AoE.

Now if you’re talking about solo’ing, you should draw a distinction between that and PvE.

Sorry, my bad. I mean unshakable (they are related hence the confusion :P) which make vulnerability last 50% less time.

And as I said, they way Reaper’s Touch bounce is not optimal (now if it worked like Deathly Swarm then I will not complain).

And why will I need 12% extra dmg when teaming with others? I alone can bring down vets and champs quiet fast and the big bosses have so many ppl killing them with their own sources of vulnerability than my Reaper’s Touch is useless.

In my opinion all weapons are viable. But some are better than others at some cases.

As for D/D i love it.
Main hand does great dmg, builds LF fast, could give u back some health and has an immobilize which in my opinion is invaluable both offensively and defensively. Off hand is even greater. Getting rid of conditions, causing weakness and blind is where this weapons shines.

Not that other off hands are not good, but i like the added defence when playing melee.

Just to state the obvious, dont go full berserker with D/D on a dungeon or fractal u ve never done before. But since u have other lvl 80s this wont be an issue…

Finally, about traits to focus on… as always u ll have to try for yourself and see…

Personally I like to use wells on my D/D spec so i d take the reduced cd on wells. I also like Last Grasp for the protection and lf building at 50% hp for some added defence.
This will leave u with another 35 points to spend anywhere u like.
Getting Close to Death for 30 points in spite or Furious Demise (15 points in curses) is also great if u want more offence.

I dont think any of the 2 dagger realted traits is mandatory in any spec. But thats just my opinion…. Although i take the speed buff (quickening thirst) when i m soloing and thus running around a lot.

D/D can work together quite well.

While /D is mainly Condition based, it can still work in a power build:

The #4 can remove conditions from yourself, increasing survivability.

The #5 does AoE weakness which is great for personal and team survivability.

If picking up the Dagger cooldown trait it has the benefit of enhancing both weapons.

Other off-hands also work well with dagger main hand:

Focus provides Vulnerability and Regeneration on #4 and can remove boons (Helpful against various things) with #5

Warhorn has a cone 2s daze on #4 and PBAoE pulsing damage aura that provides Swiftness, Cripple and 1% Life Force per target hit. Although for this weapon I feel the cooldown trait is nigh mandatory with both skills having 30 second base cooldown.

As for builds, there are many that can work. My current build is:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAoYWjEaJ7laua07JCpCRb6B38G4ge4ep5MA;TYAKnMOJcy6kzJpTA

I use Berserker gear (Also I run with Dagger/Focus and Sceptre/Dagger) but the build can easily be converted into a Wells build, can also focus more on Soldier gear for survivability and such.

Other builds can work well to.

I run a power necro in sPVP and also have power gear in PVE, and for the power necro I usually go with the following setup:

D/W, A/F

The locust swarm with the dagger is pretty nice. It compliments the Lifeforce regaining abilities quite well with it’s AoE nature, as well as disabling anything that tries to run away while giving a speed boost. Wail of Doom gets the spotlight, though. I find it to be more effective defensively than weakness or blind. The daze is a hard control, which lets you stop enemy attacks for anywhere from 2 to 6 seconds, and you can combine this with dagger #3 + 2 then locust swarm to have an enemy under quite a bit of control. All of that aggro → control → aggro playstyle also lets minions rack up extra damage. It’s what I use in sPVP, actually. Locust swarm + auto attack + well of suffering + putrid explosion + flesh golem means that any player that enters into melee range will find themselves kissing dirt quicker than they can type “What the kitten?” However I digress.

If the weakness and bleed are important, there is a far better way to get it. The curses line has an adept trait called Weakening Shroud, which casts Enfeebling Blood at the necro’s location whenever they enter into Death Shroud. It’s on a 15 second recharge, which is faster than the off-hand dagger, and it is really easy to get as far as traits go. It also doesn’t have an activation or cast time, so the skill is used immediately without delay. IMO it’s nearly a staple for any necro build. You’ll lose out on the anti-condition power of Deathly Swarm, but I have always found Deathly Swarm unreliable as far as condition transferring goes, and as condition curing goes even less so due to it needing to bounce multiple times to cure conditions.

If you don’t have other skills to stack vulnerability, the focus is also a good choice. It also has nice boon removal and the chill, but I’ve never found the focus to get me out of a bad situation as well as the warhorn does.

Dagger offhand is not just for condition builds. It’s a great supplement to a main hand dagger even for a power build. If you’re using a well build and you take Well of Blood, the condi transfer from dagger off hand is wonderful.

@OP – Dagger offhand is fantastic in pvp and wvwvw with another dagger in a power build. It really loses it’s luster in dungeons because condition removal is meh.

Dagger/Focus and Dagger/Warhorn have great synergy and provide you with the maximum amount of damage in a power build. The poster who said vulnerability is bad is ignorant of how valuable it is in dungeons. Focus is our single best teams support offhand. Chill is fantastic when you need to kite and if you are building for a damage per condition build.

So to wrap it up. D/D is great in pvp and wvwvw, but lacks the oomph of D/F and D/W in dungeons.

d/d works fine for hybrid builds, but if you’re focusing on power then focus for pve and focus or horn for pvp would be much better

I run d/d all day in wvw.
I love the traited 25% movement speed when i have it up, immobilized by a stinky ranger? Dagger 4 will change that real quick not only that but you can hit em with dagger 5 first and their dps will drop real quick, fighting a stupid thief? DS 3 to Dagger 3 and bam he’s yours for the taking.

People really like to comment w/o reading someones response. Like I said its fine for defense… but lacks synergy with full power build. If you want you can run scepter with power gear nobody stops you nor is it any less usable then next thing to it. Synergy however is a different topic.
If you plan on mh dagger then warhorn outstrips everything else for pvp bar nothing. Focus only in case of hybrid/support builds and even then there are very specific requirements to make good use of it. There are plenty of ways to remove conditions w/o using up oh slot for it.
Vulnerability being useless in pve is the most bizzare thing I heard here in a while. I think I’ll take killing something 16% faster over dagger which does little to speed things up with power build or warhorn which also won’t speed up the fight.

Well if my understanding of traits is accurate the Target the Weak can take advantage of dagger5 giving you 10s of 4% damage increase in a power build. Which would mesh well with d/d. If this is not the case then I have failed nemesis classes.

HiSaZuL.2843:

If you plan on mh dagger then warhorn outstrips everything else for pvp bar nothing. Focus only in case of hybrid/support builds and even then there are very specific requirements to make good use of it.

I agree with everything else in your post minus these two items. Focus works very well in a power build that isn’t using staff as the swap weapon, and there are quite a few tpvp power Necros much higher ranked than you or I that swear by OH dagger (Khalifa being the most visible of these).

Sannhet.8745:

HiSaZuL.2843:

If you plan on mh dagger then warhorn outstrips everything else for pvp bar nothing. Focus only in case of hybrid/support builds and even then there are very specific requirements to make good use of it.

I agree with everything else in your post minus these two items. Focus works very well in a power build that isn’t using staff as the swap weapon, and there are quite a few tpvp power Necros much higher ranked than you or I that swear by OH dagger (Khalifa being the most visible of these).

Someone else and me already said it can be used just fine for specific purposes. Extra condition removal and weakness and all that. Just like focus can still be best offhand for specific builds in pvp while utterly useless for anything else. But id still prefer warhorn for melee especially if wells are involved. Not to mention you can significantly beef up duration of daze making it far superior to fears for cc purposes.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Sannhet.8745:

HiSaZuL.2843:

If you plan on mh dagger then warhorn outstrips everything else for pvp bar nothing. Focus only in case of hybrid/support builds and even then there are very specific requirements to make good use of it.

I agree with everything else in your post minus these two items. Focus works very well in a power build that isn’t using staff as the swap weapon, and there are quite a few tpvp power Necros much higher ranked than you or I that swear by OH dagger (Khalifa being the most visible of these).

Someone else and me already said it can be used just fine for specific purposes. Extra condition removal and weakness and all that. Just like focus can still be best offhand for specific builds in pvp while utterly useless for anything else. But id still prefer warhorn for melee especially if wells are involved. Not to mention you can significantly beef up duration of daze making it far superior to fears for cc purposes.

Daze to Doom to Staff 5 = incredible control

Bas.7406:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Sannhet.8745:

HiSaZuL.2843:

If you plan on mh dagger then warhorn outstrips everything else for pvp bar nothing. Focus only in case of hybrid/support builds and even then there are very specific requirements to make good use of it.

I agree with everything else in your post minus these two items. Focus works very well in a power build that isn’t using staff as the swap weapon, and there are quite a few tpvp power Necros much higher ranked than you or I that swear by OH dagger (Khalifa being the most visible of these).

Someone else and me already said it can be used just fine for specific purposes. Extra condition removal and weakness and all that. Just like focus can still be best offhand for specific builds in pvp while utterly useless for anything else. But id still prefer warhorn for melee especially if wells are involved. Not to mention you can significantly beef up duration of daze making it far superior to fears for cc purposes.

Daze to Doom to Staff 5 = incredible control

No daze + daze runes to fear + fear spec = “get that tear jar ready”.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Daze to Doom to Staff 5 = incredible control

No daze + daze runes to fear + fear spec = “get that tear jar ready”.
[/quote]

I am going to have to try this out. Do you run Terror power build or terror condition damage? dagger with a terror build sounds interesting.

Bas.7406:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Daze to Doom to Staff 5 = incredible control

No daze + daze runes to fear + fear spec = “get that tear jar ready”.

I am going to have to try this out. Do you run Terror power build or terror condition damage? dagger with a terror build sounds interesting.[/quote]

Long ago I ran something akin to not fear damage spec but more of a condition support. Ran increased daze + fear duration + full condition durations on everything else. Result was mixed feelings. Daze is amazing… only thing fear has on with cc is that DS fear is usable while you are cced but thats it. But the problem arise in the fact that its a bit repetitive and it lacks consistency. If you could incorporate chill stacking in it would be spectacular but alas you need staff for support that leaves focus out of the window and I really like having focus if I try running chill build. It lacks damage severely however.
You could technically go with:
30/20/0/0/20
Having both dmg on fear and 50% fear duration + chilling darkness. 30 points in spite lets you get all the hammering traits you need for dagger auto. But you will not have greater marks or ground based well targeting.
If you go 0/30/10/0/30
You can can the fear duration/fear damage/greater marks/ds recharge and chilling darkness all in 1 package. Problem is making full use of all that. Anyway I remeber I was too torn between things and ended up just going to what I’ve been running since a regular standard condition spec granted it changes from time to time but it stays true to a corruption condition spec through and through.