Guild Wars 2

If you check out all the other profession forums, I asked if they feared the Reaper.
The most common reply is no, they are going to turn us into bags.

Honestly, for all the oomph of the reaper, I’m afraid that that is exactly what is going to happen.

You know… Just wait a few weeks untill the cries are “The sustain of the Necro/Reaper is too big waah waaah” – because it will catch everyone off guard that sustainable bruisers are gonna become viable

I had doubts first, but I opened up after seeing a lot of possibilities… Of course, most traits are subjected to change, but with the current direction, a lot of builds that were impossible first will be opened up

Hopefully the dullness of Warrior will get fixed as well… I know that complaining about something that is generally good is not as nice, but I really detest the current playstyle in all formats

The way I see it, the more they brag about how they’ll trounce us, the better it’ll be for us when further balancing is done. Their bravado now will, perhaps, work in our favor later and we won’t get nerfed. Or, at the very least, not as badly as if they were shaking in their boots already

Your tones changed pretty quickly :P
I think a chrono spec’d 6/0/6/0/0/6 would 100-0 a reaper 1v1, but how it performs in conquest mode is yet to be seen.

EremiteAngel.9765:

If you check out all the other profession forums, I asked if they feared the Reaper.
The most common reply is no, they are going to turn us into bags.

Honestly, for all the oomph of the reaper, I’m afraid that that is exactly what is going to happen.

Well you go to the profession forums and ask a loaded question. What did you expect?
I quickly read the comments in those threads and many don’t even know what they are talking about and show a limited understanding of the synergies that open up for Reapers.

Plus nothing is final.

edit: I like that the responses in the warrior forum are exactly what I expected them to be. Sitting on their high horses being ignorant, while every other forum gave varied opinions.

I think you ignite too much fire around other forums, hence the response. You shouldn’t really compare with other professions when their specialisations aren’t released yet. Necro have something good now I’m sure, but are you sure they won’t get something better? Many players will think like that before their specialisations are released, so just chill for now.

I enjoy the "it will be easy to blind and interrupt " arguments when we have an additional air field that blinds, 2 new multi hit skills , GS #3 and Rs #4 and locust swarm along with more stab than ever , 11s every 28/25s without boon duration.

Stab and aegis aren’t an issue for condi reapers due to path of corruption. Fear chill and poison on one skill potentially.

Also I can just remove the chill or vulnerability. Sigil of ice will be go to and we have so many ways to apply the two that they will never be a non issue.

Also the sustain will be rediculous so yeah it will be fun to drink peoples tears

Any class and I meen ANY class that lets the Reaper get to close is gonna regret it…. they think just cause we are slow they can keep us at a distance. Iam gonna be the first to say “I told you so” to the ppl who think we are slow walking lootbags cause i see builds where not even a Warrior can stay for long in Melee with us… but just wait and see when they cry as the 4th or 5th Gravedigger hits em…

Iv bin with the Necro all the time since before start and for the first time Iam actually happy, cause I see the builds, I see the pain, I see them crying….

Reaper with GS is AoE spec. It isn’t made for 1v1s, that’s clear.

As for other Reaper variations, we’ll have to wait a see for ourselves.

I think they are focussing to much on shouts and greatsword cast times which is something some necromancers might not use in a pvp setting. We are free too use a dagger/focus spectral setup which might catch them completely by surprise.

1. There are posters in this forum who don’t understand the possibilities that the Reaper spec opened up, so of course that lack of knowledge will exist in other forums. It’s not a negative thing, they just don’t see everything that there is to see.

2. Did you expect them to say that they thought this new class would destroy them or something? If you did, you have a lot to learn about human ego and emotion. Otherwise, of course they didn’t fear the Reaper, I wouldn’t expect any different answer.

Chill is pretty powerful. If Necromancer can permachill, it will be nerfed.

TBH necro has always been susceptible to kiting

especially from LB rangers and long range engineers.
I see that worsening if a necro goes RS which is basically melee with a short hop.
Even worse if one of his weapon is a GS.

I know I’ve been shouting around the forums challenging the mesmers to kite us if they can but honestly, I think they can lol.

I so wish Dark Path was faster and more reliable. That would fix everything.

The Necromancer never was a profession capable of dealing with Kiting indeed… The slow nature of everything (attacks and the speed itself) makes it really easy to deal with…
However, what I think Anet wanted and what they are succeeding more at is that when an enemy is caught, it is like being caught in a spider-web… It is not impossible to escape, but once the Necromancer/Reaper’s got you, you can only fight to survive, while being in their little web

Which is a good thing, it differentiates other professions from this one… Besides, why chase that LB Ranger in an open field? Wait patiently, devour his pet companion and let them come to your web… In the end, they want you gone as well, no?

Anchoku.8142:

I so wish Dark Path was faster and more reliable. That would fix everything.

me too. i mean losing a range fear and a 900 range gap closer is massive against a kiter.

fortunately we got a 600 range gap closer on 4 seconds CD…but that would mean staying in RS and potentially losing it just to get closer. you can’t flash in and out of RS.

In fact I think anet wants us to STAY in RS to fight rather than flash in and out.

but honestly, I rather have the range fear than stability/short range ‘melee’ fear

Range fear chance for interrupt is so much better than the new short range fear

Anchoku.8142:

Chill is pretty powerful. If Necromancer can permachill, it will be nerfed.

There are already builds that do this on a few classes. Namely necro and ranger.

Rym.1469:

Reaper with GS is AoE spec. It isn’t made for 1v1s, that’s clear.

As for other Reaper variations, we’ll have to wait a see for ourselves.

Guardian GS, d/d ele etc. are mainly aoe too and yet they can 1v1 just fine. I am pretty confident that for Reapers it will be the same. Though i think staff will be mandatory as a second weapon set to deal with enemies, who like to kite.

Sigmoid.7082:

Anchoku.8142:

Chill is pretty powerful. If Necromancer can permachill, it will be nerfed.

There are already builds that do this on a few classes. Namely necro and ranger.

Eles also can do it though those builds are terrible…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

You know… Just wait a few weeks untill the cries are “The sustain of the Necro/Reaper is too big waah waaah” – because it will catch everyone off guard that sustainable bruisers are gonna become viable

I had doubts first, but I opened up after seeing a lot of possibilities… Of course, most traits are subjected to change, but with the current direction, a lot of builds that were impossible first will be opened up

Hopefully the dullness of Warrior will get fixed as well… I know that complaining about something that is generally good is not as nice, but I really detest the current playstyle in all formats

Its funny and sad at the same time that if necro has sustain (plus some damage) it will get insta nerfed, whereas warriors, eles, engis and thieves have had sustain and damage for about 2 years. One rule for them, one for us.

Muchacho.2390:

Rym.1469:

Reaper with GS is AoE spec. It isn’t made for 1v1s, that’s clear.

As for other Reaper variations, we’ll have to wait a see for ourselves.

Guardian GS, d/d ele etc. are mainly aoe too and yet they can 1v1 just fine. I am pretty confident that for Reapers it will be the same. Though i think staff will be mandatory as a second weapon set to deal with enemies, who like to kite.

the thing is guardian got teleports/leap instant gap closers and their alternate, a scepter is way stronger than a staff. a staff is more utility.

we do not have fast gap closers. we got a slow plodding 600 range dash that requires reaper shroud to use meaning we have to stay in it and end up draining it.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Muchacho.2390:

Rym.1469:

Reaper with GS is AoE spec. It isn’t made for 1v1s, that’s clear.

As for other Reaper variations, we’ll have to wait a see for ourselves.

Guardian GS, d/d ele etc. are mainly aoe too and yet they can 1v1 just fine. I am pretty confident that for Reapers it will be the same. Though i think staff will be mandatory as a second weapon set to deal with enemies, who like to kite.

the thing is guardian got teleports/leap instant gap closers and their alternate, a scepter is way stronger than a staff. a staff is more utility.

we do not have fast gap closers. we got a slow plodding 600 range dash that requires reaper shroud to use meaning we have to stay in it and end up draining it.

True but the staff will give you 2 chills (one with fear) a reliable way the generate LF at 1200 range, and a condition transfer that will help alot against chills, cripples, immobilizes. This will help alot to close the gap.

I agree with them. What is it that makes melee effective in this game? They have tools to adapt to the role they’re looking to fill.

Most have ways to improve their mobility for roaming, or ways to improve their longevity if they’re in the train, and so on. The Necro didn’t get these tools. Just like now, the Necro is dependent on its team to provide the amount of stability that’s needed to function in a front line capacity. It’s reliant on its team to do the pealing. It’s reliant on the team to escape a melee train.

The class sounds fun, but I’m really worried it won’t be competetive. Certainly not in a WvW setting.

Atherakhia.4086:

The class sounds fun, but I’m really worried it won’t be competetive. Certainly not in a WvW setting.

Deep in my heart, I hunger for vision of 30 reapers walking into zergs, spamming Rise! with Death Nova, freezing servers and internet connections, covering whole garrisons with pulsing poison fields, over and over and over, as long as there’s 5 enemy players.

150 jagged horrors every 20 seconds sounds laggy and intimidating.

lets reserve our judgement for later

Rym.1469:

Atherakhia.4086:

The class sounds fun, but I’m really worried it won’t be competetive. Certainly not in a WvW setting.

Deep in my heart, I hunger for vision of 30 reapers walking into zergs, spamming Rise! with Death Nova, freezing servers and internet connections, covering whole garrisons with pulsing poison fields, over and over and over, as long as there’s 5 enemy players.

150 jagged horrors every 20 seconds sounds laggy and intimidating.

Literally walking. Putting the keybind for it in Settings and all.

This must happen.

Not “Fearing” isn’t exactly the same as thinking you are a loot bag. Actually, I don’t think you could’ve gotten any other answer. I mean, who would fear a class reveal anyways?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Rym.1469:

Atherakhia.4086:

The class sounds fun, but I’m really worried it won’t be competetive. Certainly not in a WvW setting.

Deep in my heart, I hunger for vision of 30 reapers walking into zergs, spamming Rise! with Death Nova, freezing servers and internet connections, covering whole garrisons with pulsing poison fields, over and over and over, as long as there’s 5 enemy players.

150 jagged horrors every 20 seconds sounds laggy and intimidating.

Literally walking. Putting the keybind for it in Settings and all.

This must happen.

I will join the glorious Reaper onslaught.

The GS skills look better suited for PvE.
But the new shroud knight skills are monstrous.

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Rym.1469:

Atherakhia.4086:

The class sounds fun, but I’m really worried it won’t be competetive. Certainly not in a WvW setting.

Deep in my heart, I hunger for vision of 30 reapers walking into zergs, spamming Rise! with Death Nova, freezing servers and internet connections, covering whole garrisons with pulsing poison fields, over and over and over, as long as there’s 5 enemy players.

150 jagged horrors every 20 seconds sounds laggy and intimidating.

Literally walking. Putting the keybind for it in Settings and all.

This must happen.

I will join the glorious Reaper onslaught.

First on Tyria. Then, the Universe…

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Rym.1469:

Atherakhia.4086:

The class sounds fun, but I’m really worried it won’t be competetive. Certainly not in a WvW setting.

Deep in my heart, I hunger for vision of 30 reapers walking into zergs, spamming Rise! with Death Nova, freezing servers and internet connections, covering whole garrisons with pulsing poison fields, over and over and over, as long as there’s 5 enemy players.

150 jagged horrors every 20 seconds sounds laggy and intimidating.

Literally walking. Putting the keybind for it in Settings and all.

This must happen.

I will join the glorious Reaper onslaught.

Modems and routers will scream in agony that day!

People will call us easy kills until someone does an MLG kill-montage using Reaper with those hit noises and “oh baby a triple” by one shotting underlevels in WvW, and then all of a sudden we’ll be OP.

Bhawb.7408:

People will call us easy kills until someone does an MLG kill-montage using Reaper with those hit noises and “oh baby a triple” by one shotting underlevels in WvW, and then all of a sudden we’ll be OP.

I will take this great and honorable duty upon myself.

As stoked as I am about necromancer with GS the cast times are a bit outlandish, 2.5 secs to finish an auto attack chain? I mean dagger 5 is 3/4 a sec and people walk out of that. No wonder we have so much chill on reaper it’s the only way we will ever land anything

spectral grasp will now see a lot of use. Chill and pull.

Yeah I have no idea why people are even theorycrafting at this point. Makes no sense and even less sense to try to compare or ultimately claim the reaper is one way or another… None of the balancing has been done. No numbers we’ve seen are a sure thing. Its impossible to tell how strong or weak any of these specializations are. The preview was just to display what it looks like so far lol.

I don’t understand why anyone would go so far to speculate or even think they know for certain how any of this is going to function in real play.

TheDevice.2751:

Yeah I have no idea why people are even theorycrafting at this point. Makes no sense and even less sense to try to compare or ultimately claim the reaper is one way or another… None of the balancing has been done. No numbers we’ve seen are a sure thing. Its impossible to tell how strong or weak any of these specializations are. The preview was just to display what it looks like so far lol.

I don’t understand why anyone would go so far to speculate or even think they know for certain how any of this is going to function in real play.

All that’s needed to theorycraft is an understanding of what a trait or ability is supposed to do and from there you can guess, with reasonable accuracy, how well a given combination will work. Besides, if we have some good educated guesses about trait and skill interactions ahead of time, it will make it easier to come up with solid builds when the elite spec does go live. Personally, as you may be able to tell, I see nothing wrong with trying to theorize new builds at this point

Vydahr.4285:

TheDevice.2751:

Yeah I have no idea why people are even theorycrafting at this point. Makes no sense and even less sense to try to compare or ultimately claim the reaper is one way or another… None of the balancing has been done. No numbers we’ve seen are a sure thing. Its impossible to tell how strong or weak any of these specializations are. The preview was just to display what it looks like so far lol.

I don’t understand why anyone would go so far to speculate or even think they know for certain how any of this is going to function in real play.

All that’s needed to theorycraft is an understanding of what a trait or ability is supposed to do and from there you can guess, with reasonable accuracy, how well a given combination will work. Besides, if we have some good educated guesses about trait and skill interactions ahead of time, it will make it easier to come up with solid builds when the elite spec does go live. Personally, as you may be able to tell, I see nothing wrong with trying to theorize new builds at this point

My point is say the signet of vampirism preview did not yet implement the 1 second internal cooldown. how many people might have theorycrafted builds based on it not having a cooldown… now think about how many people even bother running the thing since it does have a 1 second icd.

That’s what beta is for. Right now it’s all theorycraft on paper, but nobody really knows how it’ll play out in action. I expect to see a lot of reaper bags initially simply due to how it’s new and a lot of people who aren’t even used to playing a necro will be playing one. This won’t automatically mean that reapers are bad, simply it’s a cool new thing that a lot of people will be trying out.

Give it time.

I think they designed the reaper for wvw front line and pve.
They give the professions what they miss. Mesmer support, gua range, necro dps

McWolfy.5924:

I think they designed the reaper for wvw front line and pve.
They give the professions what they miss. Mesmer support, gua range, necro dps

There is absolutely no way the Reaper will hold up to WvW front line. It also doesn’t provide anything valuable to the front line. It may do well in sPvP but WvW it’s a backline or gank profession with no mobility or range and ineffective pulls.

Ive played a ranger perma-chill build quite a bit and while at times if someone has not traited against it, its pretty great but otherwise isnt as great as you might think. Thieves ignore it by default (this annoys me the most) and guards and warriors can trait to ignore… actually warriors get nice regen counterbuff off it.

Elementalists with diamond skin can ignore and can cleanse with cantrips, rangers get pretty good autocleansing with empathic bond but ideally would stay out of range anyway.

That leaves mesmers and engineers as the only real ones that are hurt by a perma chill build and even then engineer turrets are not chillable and mesmers are very adept at getting away should they need to.

So its not all that.

Also sometimes the graphic doesnt work right or just isnt noticable and you cant tell whos under the effect. At least with other conditions you get a “tick” to show but chill has nothing so poor feedback feels like its not doing anything.

Atherakhia.4086:

McWolfy.5924:

I think they designed the reaper for wvw front line and pve.
They give the professions what they miss. Mesmer support, gua range, necro dps

There is absolutely no way the Reaper will hold up to WvW front line. It also doesn’t provide anything valuable to the front line. It may do well in sPvP but WvW it’s a backline or gank profession with no mobility or range and ineffective pulls.

Yea I agree so far.. shroud isnt a good wvw defense as its only limited damage blocking unlike evade,block etc, will melt fast on front line “like ranger pet”.

Atherakhia.4086:

McWolfy.5924:

I think they designed the reaper for wvw front line and pve.
They give the professions what they miss. Mesmer support, gua range, necro dps

There is absolutely no way the Reaper will hold up to WvW front line. It also doesn’t provide anything valuable to the front line. It may do well in sPvP but WvW it’s a backline or gank profession with no mobility or range and ineffective pulls.

I dont think so.

Base Necro will be far better in the backline than a reaper ever could be. Mainly because DS is ranged unlike RS and the the combination bloodmagic, spite and soulreaping should give you the best well builds.

So reapers are ether in the frontline or not in the zerg at all.
And since i think reapers have the tools to be valuable in the frontline, i am not worried at all.

Muchacho.2390:

Atherakhia.4086:

McWolfy.5924:

I think they designed the reaper for wvw front line and pve.
They give the professions what they miss. Mesmer support, gua range, necro dps

There is absolutely no way the Reaper will hold up to WvW front line. It also doesn’t provide anything valuable to the front line. It may do well in sPvP but WvW it’s a backline or gank profession with no mobility or range and ineffective pulls.

I dont think so.

Base Necro will be far better in the backline than a reaper ever could be. Mainly because DS is ranged unlike RS and the the combination bloodmagic, spite and soulreaping should give you the best well builds.

So reapers are ether in the frontline or not in the zerg at all.
And since i think reapers have the tools to be valuable in the frontline, i am not worried at all.

The difference in shrouds isn’t that significant. You’ll get 15% less damage from chilled targets if you trait for it (I don’t remember if this was a minor or not).

So you’ll have to go full PVT gear just to hit the 3k armor mark, but even guardians and warriors need to spam blocks, invulnerabilities, reflects, evades, mobility skills, and splash heals just to survive with 3-3.4k armor. Plus guardians and warriors also spam all these party wide so they actually help the front line too.

As a Necro you have none of that and you can’t get healed through shroud except by your own life steals which are insignificant when compared to things like blast heals and the random heal effects that trigger in the hammer train. Worse still, since the Necro doesn’t provide any party support, he’s leaching all the above from his party and can’t function at all without his party. So he’ll do low damage (PVT gear), provide nothing of real value (AE chill on a hammer train with near nonstop condi cleanse), and he’s not helping to maintain any group utility.

This is why they won’t fit in the frontline leaving them no where else but the backline. But like you said, they aren’t effective there.

Atherakhia.4086:

The difference in shrouds isn’t that significant. You’ll get 15% less damage from chilled targets if you trait for it (I don’t remember if this was a minor or not).

If you are in the backline a ranged shoud is far more useful then a melee one, so i dont understand why you would say this (well unless of course you mean for the frontline…)

Atherakhia.4086:

So you’ll have to go full PVT gear just to hit the 3k armor mark, but even guardians and warriors need to spam blocks, invulnerabilities, reflects, evades, mobility skills, and splash heals just to survive with 3-3.4k armor.
Plus guardians and warriors also spam all these party wide so they actually help the front line too.

As a Necro you have none of that and you can’t get healed through shroud except by your own life steals which are insignificant when compared to things like blast heals and the random heal effects that trigger in the hammer train. Worse still, since the Necro doesn’t provide any party support, he’s leaching all the above from his party and can’t function at all without his party. So he’ll do low damage (PVT gear), provide nothing of real value (AE chill on a hammer train with near nonstop condi cleanse), and he’s not helping to maintain any group utility.

With the changes in bloodmagic chances are, that reaper could get enough team support to be useful and if you run something like bloodmagic, soulreaping and reaper chances are that with all the life siphon and blighter boon you will always leave RS with a full health bar, so not getting the heals while in RS would not a big deal.

But i agree the lack of full damage avoidance skills could become a problem for frontline reapers.

In the end i think to answer the question if reaper will work in the frontline or not, will need actually testing, so for now it is all speculation…

I thibk they will have a place. Having a few with the right skills would give you the boon advantage. Also if spin to win can be trained to heal then again soften the initial blow.

Boon removal and corruption is useful. And kitten rs have a lot of it as well as easily restacking vulnerability in an aoe.

I can see their potential value.

Right I can think of valuable things too. The question is can you survive to provide them? I don’t think the Reaper was given the tools a melee class needs to actually function in a WvW environment unless it’s as a backline melee. But as a backline melee you need mobility and engagement tools that simply aren’t there (spectral grasp is unreliable at range and the GS pull is too short).

But that’s the point I was trying to make above… Reaper doesn’t work as a backline because it wasn’t given the tools to succeed at that role. I am questioning if it will work as a front line. What other role is there? Camp flipper and yak slapper?

Atherakhia.4086:

But that’s the point I was trying to make above… Reaper doesn’t work as a backline because it wasn’t given the tools to succeed at that role.

I agree with you here.

Mhh maybe i am too optimistic about frontline reapers but until it was tested in game, i would like to keep my hopes up…

Atherakhia.4086:

Right I can think of valuable things too. The question is can you survive to provide them? I don’t think the Reaper was given the tools a melee class needs to actually function in a WvW environment unless it’s as a backline melee. But as a backline melee you need mobility and engagement tools that simply aren’t there (spectral grasp is unreliable at range and the GS pull is too short).

But that’s the point I was trying to make above… Reaper doesn’t work as a backline because it wasn’t given the tools to succeed at that role. I am questioning if it will work as a front line. What other role is there? Camp flipper and yak slapper?

Too slow.. :P I agree on waiting to see final verdict. But would like arenanet to read this and consider issues. And maybe throw us a block on GS.