Guild Wars 2

if I go crazy with marks and wells and hope they have lost a good deal of brain cells from all that dagger and stealth spamming so they actually stand in them, I can beat a thief.

if I go for power necro I die in 4 or so hits especially since I need a target to do any damage…. if I use wells with power necro it either doesn’t do enough damage before I die or they just wait it out, healing any damage I have done while I cant see them

if I go condi necro again I have the no target problem but if im lucky and land spite and throw their condis back on them before they stealth I can win along with mark spam and guess work but its always 50/50

point of this thread I would like to know what other necro users do to counter this pain in the a… of a class

This is what I usually do:
When you see them flying at you initially, either dodge or use well of darkness, or spectral grasp. Getting a chill and poison in before they stealth will help alot to slow them down and counter their regeneration. (Use hydro + doom sigil, or staff 3).

When they stealth, go into DS and use 4 and 5. If you managed to hit, they will be immobilized. This let’s you hit them easily with a life blast and DS 2. Then CC them once again with DS 3 and hit them with another lifeblast. By this time they are pretty dead or at least on the defensive and you can finish them off out of DS. If they are tanky regen build, its a lot harder but try to spam poison and chill. Currently I’m using dhummfire which seems to help as I can do good passive damage without landing all of my life blasts (which is very hard to do if they are not CC’d).

TL;DR, Don’t try to go head to head with dagger, use aoe and CC.

I do use ds 4 and 5 but it never seems to do anything and usually if I start lb spamming them have moved along watching me from the side also usually when I go into ds they spam like crazy and my lf just dies..normally accompanied with turning to stone…. or they steal my fear

I don’t think you can beast the 30 shadow art one but in spvp you have a fairly chance.

i think build fear spamming would make ur life easier a lot.

step one make a condition based minion master ,
step two use staff as main , scepter and dagger for 2nd
step three make sure your minions have death nova so when they die they hit the thief
step four if you are attacked first ( if stunned make sure you hit ds ) if not stunned lay down 2 and 3 and 4 underneath you
step five when you are feared go into ds till fear goes away
step six when low of health place staff 5 under you and 2
step seven recycle skill 2 ,3 and 4 under you to prevent thief from getting close to you
step eight when staff skills are recharging switch to scepter dagger and use skill 2 and 5 on your character when you see thief near you ,
step nine only use skill 4 with scepter and dagger and staff 4 when you need to transfer conditions
step ten when they stealth make sure you pop ds and use skill 4 it hits them in stealth

they need to be up close to do their damage , if they are a stealth popping pistol user then step 11 is run away

or just use my pu Mesmer and smash my face on the keyboard for a win…

soo much easier.. wish anet played necro then it might get fixed

Why would you use wells in a 1v1 scenario?

In fact fighting thieves is normally a waste of time simply because they will reset the fight as they please and there is nothing you can do unless you get lucky…
However with some LF you also shouldnt lose that easily. This is actually important if you encounter a thief make sure you always have some LF left to enter ds.

Against a pretty good thief you will usually lose…one who knows what to dodge etc.
But as power necro you can kill them , sometimes very easily The trick is to interrupt their heal if they dont do it in stealth, keep staff 5 for their shadow refuge, that wins me most fights, since they feel so safe in their bubble until they get feared off. Also dont let your hp drop under 50%, always heal around 60%….and not if they have basilisk venom on, they will interrupt you and kill you…ah and dont turn your back on them, try to turn around all the time and face them, they do more dmg if they jump your back. Condi thieves are the coolest build, they stack 12 bleeds and suddenly they get them back and die The ones that pain me are these new pve guys in pvp who use pistols, and unload 8k on my face…of course if you put the correct pressure they will panic since they play mostly glass, but yeah, they are a pain.
Golem helps too, sometimes after they have stealthed i do a random golem rush when i’m near it and ive seen thieves fly xD

As a power necro i’ve had more success against thieves rather than condi nec. Could be because you get more lf as power nec…As condi do the usual faceroll; signet of spite+doom and chain fears, ds 5/4, scepter 2 dagger 5 and pray

Just a staff… thieves sucks, if u play good u can easily win against a thief

Muchacho.2390:

Why would you use wells in a 1v1 scenario?

In fact fighting thieves is normally a waste of time simply because they will reset the fight as they please and there is nothing you can do unless you get lucky…
However with some LF you also shouldnt lose that easily. This is actually important if you encounter a thief make sure you always have some LF left to enter ds.

I usually get stalked by one from the start of the match so have low lf

isn’t it counted as an evade if they dodge into my marks? that’s usually what I see happen with staff against decent thieves

Pelopidas.2140:

Against a pretty good thief you will usually lose…one who knows what to dodge etc.
But as power necro you can kill them , sometimes very easily The trick is to interrupt their heal if they dont do it in stealth, keep staff 5 for their shadow refuge, that wins me most fights, since they feel so safe in their bubble until they get feared off. Also dont let your hp drop under 50%, always heal around 60%….and not if they have basilisk venom on, they will interrupt you and kill you…ah and dont turn your back on them, try to turn around all the time and face them, they do more dmg if they jump your back. Condi thieves are the coolest build, they stack 12 bleeds and suddenly they get them back and die The ones that pain me are these new pve guys in pvp who use pistols, and unload 8k on my face…of course if you put the correct pressure they will panic since they play mostly glass, but yeah, they are a pain.
Golem helps too, sometimes after they have stealthed i do a random golem rush when i’m near it and ive seen thieves fly xD

As a power necro i’ve had more success against thieves rather than condi nec. Could be because you get more lf as power nec…As condi do the usual faceroll; signet of spite+doom and chain fears, ds 5/4, scepter 2 dagger 5 and pray

they usually always do it in stealth >.<

Are you talking about spvp or wvw?
I somehow was under the impression that you fight stealth thieves. Those are generally bad in spvp because capping is not possible in stealth.

It would also help to know what kind of powerbuild you use.

If you use the 6/2/0/0/6 two well build with zerker amulet, you should be aware that this build is not a 1v1 build but a teamfighting build and in gerneral not a good 1v1 build.

I’ll try to add more later as I’m a little busy at the moment but if you are a Power Necro I would suggest the following.

Take a Spectral Stun break either Armor or Walk though I have a preference for Spectral walk as most thieves now seem to trait 30 into Trickery for Slight of Hand this effectively gives them a stun every 20s or so and as a Necromancer stuns are very bad for us.

I also like to take Dhuumfire on my Power builds now that it is on Lifeblast as you can time it with your bursts from DS and Burn damage it quite high even without investing into Condition damage and make an excellent distraction.

I like the Weakness on Deathshroud trait over Wells coupled with an offhand dagger personally as AoE Weakness will hit a thief even in stealth going for a Backstab. Finally I would note that while they hide in Stealth or drop a Shadow Refuge your Deathshroud 4 and 5 still hit invisible targets as long as they are in range. If I cannot fear a Thief out of the Shadow Refuge in time with my Staff then that big red circle makes for a nice indication of where they thief is going to be for my Deathshroud 4 to drain their health. (and 5 will immobilize at the end)

Fear, immobilize, chill/cripple spam (when I say spam I mean stack as much of it as possible because they cleanse cripple when they stealth) and anything that might interrupt (Spectral Grasp) or completely negate (Well Of Darkness) their damage. Thieves are extremely vulnerable when they’re unable to move. If you immobilize them (or Fear them, although that’s technically moving it’s still beyond their control) don’t just stand there and let the duration expire, pressure them as much as you possibly can before they restealth.
Also, food for thought. Torment is a powerful condition which we have access to through Tainted Shackles, which is also an immobilize. If you take Sigl Of Torment in your weapon of choice, you can have even more access to Torment. Torment becomes more potent when the recipient is moving, which means first using Tainted Shackles, then using Fear to force them in to moving will cause a lot of pain for them. If you’re a condition build especially, topping this off with Dhuumfire from Life Blast will be extremely lethal to the Thief. Torment first, then Fear, and you’ll get the most out of both conditions.

I run 4/2/0/4/4, my response to thieves, is Plague Signet for the breakstun, spectral grasp as someone else had mentioned above, and deathly swarm for the blind and condi transfer. I wish a thief would try to melee me, cuz I mainly use the MH dagger anyway. As for their continual stealths, the axe’s aoe attack + dagger aoe 5 is a good response – along with my traited enfeebling blood on DS (followed by appropriate skills, i.e. tainted shackles and 4.. can’t remember name atm :p ). And.. I also run well of suffering for the poor fool who gets caught in my immobilize+knockdown combo. I deal heavy damage, which’ll often force thieves to retreat and try again, and more often than not, well-timed everything will win me the 1v1. (it’ll be close against skilled thieves doe)

how are you getting the extra trait points plz share with me so I can be the most op necro ever.

NeXeD.3042:

how are you getting the extra trait points plz share with me so I can be the most op necro ever.

SHIZZ forgive me, 4/2/0/4/4

ChapDev.7650:

Deathshroud 4 and 5 still hit invisible targets as long as they are in range.

Are you sure? I would love it to be true, but I think that only blast on the end of DS5 hits invisible targets.

Muchacho.2390:

Why would you use wells in a 1v1 scenario?

In fact fighting thieves is normally a waste of time simply because they will reset the fight as they please and there is nothing you can do unless you get lucky…
However with some LF you also shouldnt lose that easily. This is actually important if you encounter a thief make sure you always have some LF left to enter ds.

This. having Life force makes the difference 1 vs 1 against good warriors and especially good thieves imo. I try not to 1 vs 1 at the begining of a match until i at least hav enough LF to enter deathshroud. If u didnt alrdy do this, some maps have objects that u can hit with staff 1 to get LF early. I always it use it on the boxes at kyhlo on home points.

You can summon fiend and shadow at the start of the match and then swap the 2 skills out. The 2 minion deaths will give you 22% lf.

Pakmon.2614:

You can summon fiend and shadow at the start of the match and then swap the 2 skills out. The 2 minion deaths will give you 22% lf.

yes this works for hotjoin, but in tpvp skills get locked and life force reset on the last timer ;/

Honestly I never really have problems with thieves unless its a giant melee and I start getting 2ed from behind…. 1v1 they don’t stand a chance ds 5 and 4 own them hard.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Pakmon.2614:

You can summon fiend and shadow at the start of the match and then swap the 2 skills out. The 2 minion deaths will give you 22% lf.

yes this works for hotjoin, but in tpvp skills get locked and life force reset on the last timer ;/

It does work during the 10 sec countdown before the match starts.

flow.6043:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Pakmon.2614:

You can summon fiend and shadow at the start of the match and then swap the 2 skills out. The 2 minion deaths will give you 22% lf.

yes this works for hotjoin, but in tpvp skills get locked and life force reset on the last timer ;/

It does work during the 10 sec countdown before the match starts.

does it? my mistake then. i swore i had tried it a couple times and i was stuk with minion skills :/ . I will retry it.

You just have to be quick on the summons, and as soon as they’re summoned you swap them for your reals skills. Start with 1-2 to get the hang of it if you’re afraid to be stuck with a minion. Even 1 grants you the 10% needed to enter DS.

Panhauramix.2784:

You just have to be quick on the summons, and as soon as they’re summoned you swap them for your reals skills. Start with 1-2 to get the hang of it if you’re afraid to be stuck with a minion. Even 1 grants you the 10% needed to enter DS.

thnx for the tip. always good to improve on my necro

OMNIBUS.2913:

Panhauramix.2784:

You just have to be quick on the summons, and as soon as they’re summoned you swap them for your reals skills. Start with 1-2 to get the hang of it if you’re afraid to be stuck with a minion. Even 1 grants you the 10% needed to enter DS.

thnx for the tip. always good to improve on my necro

Does anyone else think this is cheap?..

Well if they let necro start with 30% right off the start, we would not need to use such “cheap” tricks to be able to survive the first push. Right now a good team will focus necro right off the bat in a team fight and we’ll always be one step behind in the defense departement, still needing someone to peel for us or wasting time in Khylo sucking lifeforce out of crates before engaging.

I’d say its all about tactics, yeah they’ll focus the necro if they’re smart. BUT, what is a necro doing on the front lines anyway? Unless the Necro is specced for being tanky (which most are not), it’s kitten-brained to head out in front of teammates. Need stability? Doesn’t guardian provide that? As for “the first push”, pretty much every necro has the advantage of using staff for the marks as an initial defense/ tactical layout (I don’t use staff). Also, other classes love running into fights with their boons up – corrupt boon/well of corruption – now your hambow/glass guardian/stun ur face off teammate whatever can go ham.

There are ways for a necro to stay on the edge of a fight and provide excellent ranged support/dps – just as there are ways for an ele or a mes. Ya know how that firestorm does massive damage? Necro has fears to interrupt the healing enemy – yeah it’s not the same burst damage as firestorm or mesmer S/P + GS combos, but this is when the team play comes in. If a necro isn’t specced for 1v1 battles, chances are, getting the stomp is somewhat difficult – but supporting a stomp, now that’s easy!

Life force is easily attainable (for me) so I gotta change my perspective to imagine the difficulty for other builds to get it… imagining … Yes.. this 0 life force at the start of any battle is a tedious start. I could stand behind 15%, but I think 30% may be a little hopeful. (spectral grasp?? <- i love it, but i know its not for everyone..) Lastly, a lot of necro builds lack defensive utilities because they’re spec’d for damage – that’s when i’d suggest finding a hybrid that suits you. I’m on the quest of perfecting my own hybrid – will share if I get any significant results.

In the end, team synergy is a big part of the win/loss – putting class/proficiency shortcomings aside.

Ah the fresh bloods, with all their refreshing and utopic ideas We need optimist people like you, we really do!

But after playing that class since day 1 for almost 1500 hours, mostly wvw/tpvp, and then switching and now playing a mix match of all the other classes, I can assure you that necro lacks the exact thing you’re saying in the end of your post: Synergy with the rest of the team.

I can’t get heals while I’m focused (and trust me, they will come and get you, they won’t let you cast freely from the sideline) because my Defensive mechanic prevents other peoples from healing me.

I’ve tried a LOT of builds, lots of them my own, even with Signet of Vampirism (even beat some peoples with it, doesn’t mean it’s good or even close to been viable) but I always feel like a sitting duck when focused and even worse, a liability for my team. That is the killer reason I don’t play Tpvp with my necro anymore.

Others classes have more self-substain and less need of a babysitter to be effective, and they open a lot more combos (not just fields, actual combos) between teammates.

I can’t tell you to stop playing necro, because it’s really a fun class to play and I loved my ride, but I can say it was more of a stepping stone to bigger fishes now.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

if I go crazy with marks and wells and hope they have lost a good deal of brain cells from all that dagger and stealth spamming so they actually stand in them, I can beat a thief.

if I go for power necro I die in 4 or so hits especially since I need a target to do any damage…. if I use wells with power necro it either doesn’t do enough damage before I die or they just wait it out, healing any damage I have done while I cant see them

if I go condi necro again I have the no target problem but if im lucky and land spite and throw their condis back on them before they stealth I can win along with mark spam and guess work but its always 50/50

point of this thread I would like to know what other necro users do to counter this pain in the a… of a class

u running wrong power build if ur losing to thieves

Go glass cannon and burst them down. You’ll have a hard time winning a sustain battle against a thief, so the safest bet is to apply a large dose of overkill.

“if I go crazy with marks and wells”

I can’t even imagine trying to fight a thief with a slow long-range stand-off weapon like staff. What’s in your other weapon slots?

And while I usually run wells on my not-a-condimancer necro, understand that “going crazy” with them is the LAST thing you want to do – you want to drop them one at a time in tempo with the thief disappearing so that they are looking at those big red circles and maybe hesitating to close with you inside them.

But as others have said, the big issue is a thief can leave any time they want to and as a necromancer you are NOT going to chase them down. If you’re in sPvP that may work out for you because there’s fixed locations to fight over, but in an open field encounter understand that you’re not going to kill them unless they are full-on inept.

I kill thief’s all the time and my main way to get them blinded and negate that first stealth strike Well of darkness really helps when they go melee,spectral grasp when they are ranging you,and the Elite skill Plague Form put it on auto attack blinding plague so they are being poisoned and blinded really messes them up and usually doing that and when they stealth popping Death Shroud will take care of them usually

As a D/D powermancer (using Leeto’s build), when I go against a thief I first make sure I have a wurm somewhere nearby for an escape if needed. I try to lead off with FG charge then Dark Pact and DS2. After that, I’ll DS5 then DS3 and Enfeebling Blood on wherever the target will be. By this time, the thief is usually trying to bubble away, that’s where/whenn I’ll unload staff marks and replant them at my feet on CD.

For the loads of condis they’ll try to put on me, I’ll transfer the initial load via Deathly Swarm before hitting Well of Power.

Also, figure with the build I’m running, each dodge places a Mark of Blood that’s on a separate CD from the staff, so they’re smacking into bleeds just trying to stay on me while I’m gaining regen at the same time.

Usually for me, the name of the game is to punish and force CDs until they try to escape/reset. Then I can DS2 right on them (or wurm port if they run in that direction) and burn them down with dagger autos or DS1. After the down, its just a matter of melting them down. As a necro, I’ve given up on stomping anything that’s not another necromancer :P

As another player has pointed out, there’s a psychological aspect to PVP that a lot of people overlook. Your conditions may not deal a lot of damage in of themselves, but players still see them and will waste resources on cleanses. An early fear or knockdown may trigger a stability CD, which can be corrupted.

TL;DR— draw first blood, AoE the bubble, CC/pressure, and don’t make stupid mistakes. If you’re not in DS, you better have regen up.

Muchacho.2390:

Why would you use wells in a 1v1 scenario?

I always use well of darkness when fighting a thief, it is essentially a 5 second invul since they either stand in the well to attack you and miss everything, or they don’t stand in the well in which case they aren’t attacking you (referring to any type of dagger/sword main-hand thief since that’s about 90% of them).

Anyway, a few tips for the OP:
- Always save your fear mark for when they refuge (every single thief in the game will use refuge, I guarantee it)
- Open with a chill mark is always good since it makes it much easier to kite them around
- Well of darkness is very good for keeping a thief off of you as I explained above
- Spectral wall is also very good for the same reason as well of darkness, you just strafe around the wall and the thief can’t touch you.
- Always be standing on a mark when the thief is invis so you have some warning to when they are near and can dodge their backstab.
- Use DS #3 to interrupt the popular 5-2 combo (d/p thief) and then you can burst/immob with DS# 5 and 4
- Reaper’s protection trait is also very good vs thieves (4 into death magic) as it is essentially an auto 4 second fear (with 100% duration) on the thief when they hit you with basilisk venom
- Plague is prob the best elite because you can pop it and use the #2 for blind pulse to buy you time for some skills to come off cooldown and the thief can’t touch you

The only thief build I can’t beat with any kind of consistency is a p/d condi thief, and after actually making and playing a p/d condi thief quite a bit I’m convinced they are the god mode dueling build in this game if played correctly.

As a power necro, I have no issues with fighting thieves.

For condi spamming thieves: simply don’t move for the duration of torment. I know this is counter-intuitive but that is where a ton of their damage comes from. their pistol bleeds from the stealth pistol attack can’t really stack past 10 unless they somehow have 100% condi duration so that is not that bad. You might also equip a plague signet to transfer it back to them, or well of power.

For d/d backstab thieves: The only thing you need to do here is fight back. There is absolutely no way you can beat a thief if you are using axe. It is a terrible weapon. My weaponset is dagger/warhorn + dagger/focus and I have never had any issues killing thieves.