Guild Wars 2

I’m referring to those thief that go invis very often when they fight.

invis in and out in and out I can’t even get a good sustained lock on them for my condi to build =s

and they just burst me down so easily =(

Hey man.

Have you ever played a thief? I’m just curious, since it will help you understand the class mechanics etc, and how to counter them. I beg for thieves to engage me, and since I have played a thief for a long time, it has helped me.

What build etc are you running?

Basically:

When they’re visible, toe to toe them as you’ll generally win the face duel. Stay out of the smoke field when it’s d/p.
When they’re invisible, random golem charge, DS 4,5, dagger swipes, marks, wells, everything you have that is not targeted.

When they are low be ready with staff fear and when you see shadow refuge instantly fear them out of it.

Also when they are visible fear first to keep them under control and DS 2 to tp to them, chill and put yourself behind them for free attacks. Chill on weapon swap can be helpful as well with hydromancy sigil.

As you’re condition it’s tougher, it’s a lot easier in power or minion specs.

Otaking.4675:

When they’re invisible, random golem charge, DS 4,5, dagger swipes, marks, wells, everything you have that is not targeted.

That is actually the worst thing you can do against a thief, even though you can’t see the thief, the thief can still see you. This means that not only do your random attacks have a low probability of hitting the thief, they are almost guaranteed to miss because the thief will simply avoid them. Then the thief comes out of stealth and hurp durp you have no skills because you randomly spammed them all at nothing. …especially spamming wells at invisible enemies, those have pretty long cooldowns, are you new to necro? The most you would want to do is use a low cd mark or two to stand on so you have warning to when the thief is about to hit you.

If they just invised I think ds 5 is still a good idea and staff 2 wait on the mark until it’s triggered then you know he’s next to you.

Also I find theives easier with condi specs than power…

What NeXeD is a good idea. Sitting on marks to know when they’re coming is pretty much a must, in my opinion. When the mark pops, they are MOST likely behind you, trying to land a backstab. It depends on the thief you fight, but there’s a few kinds. If they’re power, they are probably Dagger / Dagger or Dagger / Pistol. D/P is the set that creates lil smoke fields and they go invisible. For that setup, try to somehow fear them as they are trying to leap through the field. The best way is to quickly pop deathshroud and hit 3. The only thing that sucks is the attack that created the smoke field shoots a bullet that blinds so your fear can be blinded.

D/D have no smoke fields and they can stealth mainly when they are near you. They have to hit you (in most cases) to stealth, then they go around and backstab. So try to play dumb and make em come near and watch for their attacks. MOST likely they’ll try to do Cloak and Dagger (attack that stealths them). If you dodge that, they will be in trouble. If you burst them then, they may panic and use Shadow Refuge (the big invisibility field with a house icon thing that stealths). If they use this, try to quickly place your Staff #5 skill. Hopefully they will be feared out of the invisibility field. This will reveal them and they won’t be able to stealth for a few secs so you’ll have a huge advantage.

Thieves are tricky to fight at first, especially if it’s a good thief, and if it’s a 1v1. A good way to know the enemy is to play their class and understand how they work and what they do. Having a thief friend helps

thanks for the tips. problem for me is I guess i have only ever played necro and dont really understand all the other classes.

Also I running with scepter/dagger and axe/warhorn. with no aoe marks or wells or anything like that =/ so I got nothing to stand on XD

Ds 5 and locust swarm

ds 5 = death shroud the binding chain? didnt know it latches on invis too XD

EremiteAngel.9765:

Also I running with scepter/dagger

S/D is very good against D/D thieves. As others have said, a D/D thief must be in melee to stealth (with the exception of their heal and utilities, which they will try not to use). Learn the animation for Cloak and Dagger first. It’s pretty easy to spot and very predictable once you get used to it. Use Grasping Dead to cripple them at range. When they do get close, either be ready to dodge Cloak and Dagger or use Deathly Swarm to blind them (thieves are very vulnerable to blinds). If they miss two Cloak and Daggers in a row, they will be forced to use their heal or a utility or just stay revealed, all of which put the thief in a bad spot. Enfeebling Blood’s weakness will also do wonders. When they stealth, feel free to cast it on yourself when you feel you’re about to be backstabbed and the weakness will prevent the backstab from critting (assuming you’ve properly timed it so they have no time to cleanse).

There are a lot of things you can do. I play D/D thief pretty regularly and a good necro is one of the toughest customers just because of their access to weakness, slows, and super high health.

EremiteAngel.9765:

ds 5 = death shroud the binding chain? didnt know it latches on invis too XD

XD It still hits you just don’t see the green line and the more he moves the more damage is done to him.

Just stand on top of marks when fighting thieves. Especially when they stealth, just stand on reaper’s mark.

Tbh, as a Power Necro (not well one) I find 99% thieves rather easy. Easier than on Condi

Waffler.1257:

Otaking.4675:

When they’re invisible, random golem charge, DS 4,5, dagger swipes, marks, wells, everything you have that is not targeted.

That is actually the worst thing you can do against a thief, even though you can’t see the thief, the thief can still see you. This means that not only do your random attacks have a low probability of hitting the thief, they are almost guaranteed to miss because the thief will simply avoid them. Then the thief comes out of stealth and hurp durp you have no skills because you randomly spammed them all at nothing. …especially spamming wells at invisible enemies, those have pretty long cooldowns, are you new to necro? The most you would want to do is use a low cd mark or two to stand on so you have warning to when the thief is about to hit you.

Hurp durp against a good thief you’re not going to have time to throw them when visible and those of us that have been playing necro a long time know where a thief can get to and usually are in 4 seconds of invis. It’s general advice for a new player that didn’t even know #5 could hit a thief in stealth.

It’s not like you can give a laundry list of how to kill a thief and follow it step by step. Yes wells are better used when the thief is in your face as long as he’s not any good and fearing you out of them in the 5 seconds you have of him bursting your feared backside before your hp and shroud run out hurp durp.

So take your condescending attitude and ego and shove it, thanks. Nerds like you are a dime a dozen that can’t converse with other people without being insulting so I suggest you learn some tact out in the real world before coming at random strangers on the internet as well. If you have a real need to gratify yourself by feeling superior to others, I suggest you give your local kindergarten a shot.

Just because a new player is asking for help doesn’t mean you should give bad advice. And I don’t think Waffler’s post is condescending at all. You have to save up your skills for when a thief reveals himself, wasting them on potentially nothing when the thief is stealthed leaves you defenseless when he is actually attacking you.

Otaking.4675:

against a good thief you’re not going to have time to throw them when visible

Actually that’s the only chance you have to beat a good thief, downing them in stealth is pure luck.

flow.6043:

Just because a new player is asking for help doesn’t mean you should give bad advice. And I don’t think Waffler’s post is condescending at all. You have to save up your skills for when a thief reveals himself, wasting them on potentially nothing when the thief is stealthed leaves you defenseless when he is actually attacking you.

Otaking.4675:

against a good thief you’re not going to have time to throw them when visible

Actually that’s the only chance you have to beat a good thief, downing them in stealth is pure luck.

You can predict where thieves will be in 4 seconds and hit them while invisible quite often. Especially if you lead with dagger chain.

Otaking.4675:

You can predict where thieves will be in 4 seconds and hit them while invisible quite often. Especially if you lead with dagger chain.

I believe you are confusing the 4 sec revealed debuff (3 sec in WvW) with actual stealth uptime. Thieves can be in stealth for much longer than 4 seconds.
And what kind of thief lets you land an auto attack chain? He’d have to stand still within 130 range right in front of you for at least 2 seconds. That’s just not going to happen.

flow.6043:

Otaking.4675:

You can predict where thieves will be in 4 seconds and hit them while invisible quite often. Especially if you lead with dagger chain.

I believe you are confusing the 4 sec revealed debuff (3 sec in WvW) with actual stealth uptime. Thieves can be in stealth for much longer than 4 seconds.
And what kind of thief lets you land an auto attack chain? He’d have to stand still within 130 range right in front of you for at least 2 seconds. That’s just not going to happen.

I believe you are not reading basic tooltips about thief. Standard stealth is 4 seconds. Even SR is 4 seconds you just stack more due to standing it in and stacking pulse.

Good thieves aren’t going to do several things listed in this thread.

Cloak and Dagger first. It’s pretty easy to spot and very predictable once you get used to it. Use Grasping Dead to cripple them at range. When they do get close, either be ready to dodge Cloak and Dagger or use Deathly Swarm to blind them (thieves are very vulnerable to blinds). If they miss two Cloak and Daggers in a row, they will be forced to use their heal or a utility or just stay revealed, all of which put the thief in a bad spot.

You are not going to see a good thief coming at range in SPVP. They will wait till they can stealth util and los you on approach or you are engaged otherwise.

You will not dodge cloak and dagger as they’ll get it off a pet or turret while waiting on your 2 evade. Their blinds will go off before your slow dagger cast if they’re built right.

We can semantically argue what good thieves do all day.

But you’re all expert necros and never die to those easy thieves. Just stand in a mark!

lol

You can hit invisible thieves with a dagger chain. 1,2 in front of you and 3 chain behind you works well as many of them think they’re the only ones who knows how circle strafe works.

They either have to attack near the end of that four seconds or combo stealth off something else in combat, you can swipe near the something elses like turrets, pets as well and catch them out. Thief sense is kind of like spiderman’s spider sense just something you have to develop.

NeXeD.3042:

Also I find theives easier with condi specs than power…

This is the nr1 solution to Counterring Thieves imho

Otaking.4675:

Good thieves aren’t going to do several things listed in this thread. You are not going to see a good thief coming at range in SPVP. They will wait till they can stealth util and los you on approach or you are engaged otherwise.

You’re not likely to see a D/D thief at all in sPvP, which is the type of thief I was referring to. Other sets with offhand dagger have more range and/or mobility which would call for a different approach. However, whether the thief is good or not, it’s still not hard to see them coming if you have any kind of spatial awareness and you’re not fighting in a huge mess. No good thief is going to stealth with a utility pre-engagement, especially with a necro there. And no good thief is going to need to wait until you are engaged in another fight to kill you. So… turn your camera. Thieves aren’t walking around in stealth 24/7, especially if they’re in sPvP where Shadow Arts builds are largely nonexistent.

Otaking.4675:

You will not dodge cloak and dagger as they’ll get it off a pet or turret while waiting on your 2 evade. Their blinds will go off before your slow dagger cast if they’re built right.

You’re assuming that pets and turrets are present. It doesn’t even matter, really. In WvW it might as well be a deer, but if they’re using Cloak and Dagger on anything but you it’s just fine. That’s 2-5k less damage you’re taking there, depending on your set up and theirs, and a dodge you don’t have to waste. You can still easily AoE on top of yourself with Grasping Dead or Enfeebling Blood or staff marks or whatever you like. If they’re stealthing off of an NPC and they’re in melee range, you’ve already messed up because you clearly could’ve seen them walking up to the NPC, in which case, you would have had time to throw something on them. If they’re stealthing off an NPC and out of melee range, that’s bonus points for you because Cloaked in Shadow has a 240 radius whereas scepter has a range of 900 so the blind isn’t an issue.

Otaking.4675:

We can semantically argue what good thieves do all day.

Well, really, you’re the only one prefacing everything you say with “a good thief will X” which is nothing but a band-aid on a dead argument. The advice given here is generally good, constructive, and helpful. OP has a sincere desire to get better so it’s a shame that you have to come here to try to ruin positive discussion for everyone.

Otaking.4675:

But you’re all expert necros and never die to those easy thieves. Just stand in a mark!

lol

Otaking.4675:

I believe you are not reading basic tooltips about thief. Standard stealth is 4 seconds. Even SR is 4 seconds you just stack more due to standing it in and stacking pulse.

Cloak and Dagger
Blinding Powder
Shadow Refuge
Hide in Shadows

TakeCare, I couldn’t have said it any better, very well argued.

Otaking, you start out with “Good thieves aren’t going to do several things listed in this thread.” and then follow it up with stuff like:

Otaking.4675:

1,2 in front of you and 3 chain behind you works well as many of them think they’re the only ones who knows how circle strafe works.

…among other things.
Perhaps you should play a thief once in a while. You’re assuming that a cloaked thief has nothing better to do than standing right next to you at all times, and that they will reappear every time after you’ve counted to 4 either right in front or behind you just to eat some of your dagger auto attacks.
Again, stealth can be stacked, and CnD and SR aren’t the only sources. And thieves have enough mobility and gap closers to afford not being anywhere near you when you’re busting out every aoe skill at your disposal. They’ll just wait until your entire skillbar is on cooldown and attack after that.

you know a game is well balanced and nothing is op when swishing blindly at the air is considered a counter. and an invisible class gets high damage abilities that automatically teleport you to your enemy so they can stick to you like they have been playing with super glue and positioning isn’t even an issue…….

that being said so far I have no trouble with thieves in pvp in fact I welcome it, they are a great source of ds regen from my daggers after taking vampiric and heal on crits lol

not sure what it would be like in wvw tho even with the stat increases from food, runes and armour =|

I find roaming thieves easy to deal with in any of my builds. The best thing you can do against on is understand how he moves. Usually when you fight a bad to okay thief they will stick to the same attack patterns. If you have a staff use you marks offensively and let them know you know exactly where they are. If you can’t find them then use your marks as a warning that a backstab will not be coming today.

With a condi build I find it easy to combo a thief and load them up as much as I can before invisi hits. You can do this with fear and spectral grasp. If you cripple them before an invisi you have a good idea where to hit too. Plague form can also be fun because it will take away their backstabs and heart seekers with ease. Spectral wall is also great, as man stupid thieves will spam 2 into it all day. Add terror to your build and that wall does half the work for you.

My favorite WvW build is the power build which tears through most thieves in 2-3 hits. Using axe/warhorn and a staff((Always use before DS)) You have some great AoE abilities and trails to protect you. When you see him run after you, Hop into DS and crit him hard with your auto attack. Fear is always you friend too. When he gets low enough pop you life transfer to finish him off, although I like to save it for when the house on their dead bodies to stop a channeled heal.

Play smart and aware and there isn’t a whole lot that your average thief can do to you.

PS, try marking their shadow step locations for some extra fun =)

There’s really no reason a necro lose to a thief…
A nec has SO MANY PBAOE that can totally negate stealth.
Also thief has least access to stability and stun breaker, so you can just fear CC chain and burst him down with condition.
Thief also is quite bad in removing condition as well, so even if he kites you it means nothing. The only thing you have to worry about is he getting away from you.
(Well, most thieves will run away from necro in solo anyway :/)

eh.. I find they just dodge into my marks negating their effects =\…..