Q:
how is Barrier work?
A:
It’s A. Barrier is just temporary HP.
so sad, that is useless for team, cos already have healer and block…
No its not useless at all. All they need to do is delay the decay a little bit, just for few sec.
Its the perfect supplement to a healer.
As a defensive tool, the Barrier grant things that Heal don’t. You obtain temporary extra HP that a healer can’t grant you in any way. For that reason the Barrier is a really appreciable mechanic.
The main problem is that the Barrier follow the Shroud mechanic and have a Decacy that make it bad.
If you active a Barrier of 5k that last 6 seconds, for 2 seconds your barrier will be full but then it will rapidly decrease to 0 in the otehr 4 seconds. That mean that after 4 secodns your barrier is reduced by 50%.
That thing is a Huge Problem because make barrier useless in long time fights.
You can reset the 2sec decacy cooldown by spamming another barrier (I think) but unless you spam barriers all the day long (a thing impossible for scourge atm still if able to spam a lot of them) you’re unable to keep them useful for all the fight.
That mean 3 things:
1) you have to active the Barrier right before an enemy hit (easy to do for PvE but hard to do for PvP)
2) little barriers are barely useless because they protect you for 1.5k hp but last not enough to protect you for not even 750hp unless you active them right before a hit (and they’re effect is still not enough to have any value in PvE or PvP)
3) you will use little barriers Only to reset the Big barriers decacy cooldown and add something barely usefull for your party
Barriers are a good thing but not suefull enough to grant a spot in raids for a scourge.
Maybe in WvW a lot of scourge that active they’re barriers will grant something useful for they’re allies, but nothing more.
We all hope to obtain a high condition DPS with the scourge that will grant us a spot in raids and sPvP, totally ignoring the “support” area of the class.
If your barrier is decaying, you’re not taking much damage. If you’re taking a lot of damage you don’t need to worry about decay. The decay is fine.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
If your barrier is decaying, you’re not taking much damage. If you’re taking a lot of damage you don’t need to worry about decay. The decay is fine.
Yes this is something people wanting lower decay don’t understand. It’s not meant for perma shielding. It’s preemptive healing to help counter spikes. And it is not meant to 100% negate spikes either. It’s meant to soften them. It is meant to be a balanced augmenting mechanic that is not redundant nor a replacement.
If your barrier is decaying, you’re not taking much damage. If you’re taking a lot of damage you don’t need to worry about decay. The decay is fine.
Yes this is something people wanting lower decay don’t understand. It’s not meant for perma shielding. It’s preemptive healing to help counter spikes. And it is not meant to 100% negate spikes either. It’s meant to soften them. It is meant to be a balanced augmenting mechanic that is not redundant nor a replacement.
under what circumstance would i use that as opposed to simply spike healing after the spike? that healed HP is permanent and doenst decay and can simply be held over until the next spike. the barriers arent any bigger than heals either. There are a lot of things that could make barriers a side grade to heals as opposed to the current ghetto heal it is.
Barriers have innate protection.
Barriers take half condi damage
Barriers decay into base HP at 50% efficiency
Barriers temporarily disable slow effects like Slow,chill, and cripple without removing the condition.
Anything like that would enable barriers to be useful in cases where heals would be available.
If your barrier is decaying, you’re not taking much damage. If you’re taking a lot of damage you don’t need to worry about decay. The decay is fine.
Yes this is something people wanting lower decay don’t understand. It’s not meant for perma shielding. It’s preemptive healing to help counter spikes. And it is not meant to 100% negate spikes either. It’s meant to soften them. It is meant to be a balanced augmenting mechanic that is not redundant nor a replacement.
under what circumstance would i use that as opposed to simply spike healing after the spike? that healed HP is permanent and doenst decay and can simply be held over until the next spike. the barriers arent any bigger than heals either. There are a lot of things that could make barriers a side grade to heals as opposed to the current ghetto heal it is.
Barriers have innate protection.
Barriers take half condi damage
Barriers decay into base HP at 50% efficiency
Barriers temporarily disable slow effects like Slow,chill, and cripple without removing the condition.Anything like that would enable barriers to be useful in cases where heals would be available.
Um, when the damage is of the burst variety? Most classes don’t have spike healing, necromancer included. You use the barrier skill a second before the burst damage.
I’m honestly surprised why the concept is so hard to grasp.
If your barrier is decaying, you’re not taking much damage. If you’re taking a lot of damage you don’t need to worry about decay. The decay is fine.
The decay isn’t fine at all tho lol, the decay is a big reason scourge is squisher than both reaper and core necro, the decay needs to be slowed down a lot for barriers to be good as it goes down almost instantly after the 1 second which also makes barriers inferior to aegis.
If your barrier is decaying, you’re not taking much damage. If you’re taking a lot of damage you don’t need to worry about decay. The decay is fine.
The decay isn’t fine at all tho lol, the decay is a big reason scourge is squisher than both reaper and core necro, the decay needs to be slowed down a lot for barriers to be good as it goes down almost instantly after the 1 second which also makes barriers inferior to aegis.
Well if you’ve let your barrier decay, it means you didn’t need to use the barrier in the first place?
If your barrier is decaying, you’re not taking much damage. If you’re taking a lot of damage you don’t need to worry about decay. The decay is fine.
Yes this is something people wanting lower decay don’t understand. It’s not meant for perma shielding. It’s preemptive healing to help counter spikes. And it is not meant to 100% negate spikes either. It’s meant to soften them. It is meant to be a balanced augmenting mechanic that is not redundant nor a replacement.
under what circumstance would i use that as opposed to simply spike healing after the spike? that healed HP is permanent and doenst decay and can simply be held over until the next spike. the barriers arent any bigger than heals either. There are a lot of things that could make barriers a side grade to heals as opposed to the current ghetto heal it is.
Barriers have innate protection.
Barriers take half condi damage
Barriers decay into base HP at 50% efficiency
Barriers temporarily disable slow effects like Slow,chill, and cripple without removing the condition.Anything like that would enable barriers to be useful in cases where heals would be available.
Um, when the damage is of the burst variety? Most classes don’t have spike healing, necromancer included. You use the barrier skill a second before the burst damage.
I’m honestly surprised why the concept is so hard to grasp.
alright so lets say you have 20k hp and the enemy spike damage is 10k without healing or barrier you would have 10k hp left if you used your 2k barrier before the spike before it decays you would have 12k hp left or you could heal at your leisure after for 2k with significantly less trouble. no decay on your heal potential and honestly the heal would most likely come out to 5k with the same healing power it takes to get 2k barrier. that would leave you with holy kitten 15k hp instead of 12k hp what a deal.
I dont undertand why this concept is so hard to grasp. HEALING > BARRIER in every single possible potential existing and non-existing way. the sole litterally singular purpose for a barrier is as follows
You have 20k hp burst if for 21k hp and no chance to heal at all during the burst. the 2k barrier that you placed perfectly before the burst has allowed you to survive with 1k hp so that an auto attack can finish you off.
Congrats barriers have saved you.
You do realise using barrier and healing are not mutually exclusive situations? If the burst involves poison your healing is diminished. None of what you say has anything to do with decay. You use barrier at the right time, you get more mileage out of it. God forbid stuff in the game requires a bit more skill to use.
And you know what, spike healing isn’t very useful in the current meta anyways, is always been about sustain, barrier just happens to be another variant. I’d much prefer 5 sources of 2k barrier to one source of 10k heal.
So you suggest in pvp/wvw you just spam the barrier, because “using them before the damage” is just a bad suggestion, unless you are psychic. What about the bait move? How far after release do you think people will learn to bait necros to use their barriers?
As proactive defense you need few sec of “breathing” time window or its just bad design.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
This would make sense if WvW was not balanced as a PvE area. The issue is that Scourge is strong, very strong in WvW as it is and any PvE buff can make it totally broken. Well, from what’s been seen it’s already broken op in WvW and nerfs to the “PvE” (read WvW) side are already bound to happen at release.
Barrier will probably be hitten hard especially in the “PvE” area because none should be able to grant 160k extra health to a golem or a lord in WvW.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
So you suggest in pvp/wvw you just spam the barrier, because “using them before the damage” is just a bad suggestion, unless you are psychic. What about the bait move? How far after release do you think people will learn to bait necros to use their barriers?
As proactive defense you need few sec of “breathing” time window or its just bad design.
Once you’ve engaged a fight you are pretty much constantly taking damage in spvp. It’s why sustain is king, at which point, your barrier should not be running out via decay.
You get barrier as a secondary effect most of the time anyways, which means you aren’t spending time healing and not doing damage.
So you suggest in pvp/wvw you just spam the barrier, because “using them before the damage” is just a bad suggestion, unless you are psychic. What about the bait move? How far after release do you think people will learn to bait necros to use their barriers?
As proactive defense you need few sec of “breathing” time window or its just bad design.Once you’ve engaged a fight you are pretty much constantly taking damage in spvp. It’s why sustain is king, at which point, your barrier should not be running out via decay.
You get barrier as a secondary effect most of the time anyways, which means you aren’t spending time healing and not doing damage.
The ways weavers get barrier is a secondary effect on scourge its the main attraction its sacrificing your damage output to put a shade on you for the sake of getting that barrier.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
This would make sense if WvW was not balanced as a PvE area. The issue is that Scourge is strong, very strong in WvW as it is and any PvE buff can make it totally broken. Well, from what’s been seen it’s already broken op in WvW and nerfs to the “PvE” (read WvW) side are already bound to happen at release.
Barrier will probably be hitten hard especially in the “PvE” area because none should be able to grant 160k extra health to a golem or a lord in WvW.
Its strong in WvW, because you have 10 scourges and with communication you can have constant barrier, even if spammed. In PvP its not the same. In PvE you eventually will know the enemies moves and this probably will be less of a problem. But still the whole point of the barrier is to prevent the damage, therefore it need to last longer then 2sec.
Even if its secondary support system my point still stand.
So you suggest in pvp/wvw you just spam the barrier, because “using them before the damage” is just a bad suggestion, unless you are psychic. What about the bait move? How far after release do you think people will learn to bait necros to use their barriers?
As proactive defense you need few sec of “breathing” time window or its just bad design.Once you’ve engaged a fight you are pretty much constantly taking damage in spvp. It’s why sustain is king, at which point, your barrier should not be running out via decay.
You get barrier as a secondary effect most of the time anyways, which means you aren’t spending time healing and not doing damage.
Its really not. You can have your auto attack deal damage constantly, but you are timing your heavy hitters and utilities for maximum effect.
Sadly the game is going in the direction you suggest, brainless button mashing and countless cc.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
This would make sense if WvW was not balanced as a PvE area. The issue is that Scourge is strong, very strong in WvW as it is and any PvE buff can make it totally broken. Well, from what’s been seen it’s already broken op in WvW and nerfs to the “PvE” (read WvW) side are already bound to happen at release.
Barrier will probably be hitten hard especially in the “PvE” area because none should be able to grant 160k extra health to a golem or a lord in WvW.
Wait, PvE and WvW aren’t split like PvE and PvP ?
So you suggest in pvp/wvw you just spam the barrier, because “using them before the damage” is just a bad suggestion, unless you are psychic. What about the bait move? How far after release do you think people will learn to bait necros to use their barriers?
As proactive defense you need few sec of “breathing” time window or its just bad design.Once you’ve engaged a fight you are pretty much constantly taking damage in spvp. It’s why sustain is king, at which point, your barrier should not be running out via decay.
You get barrier as a secondary effect most of the time anyways, which means you aren’t spending time healing and not doing damage.
Its really not. You can have your auto attack deal damage constantly, but you are timing your heavy hitters and utilities for maximum effect.
Sadly the game is going in the direction you suggest, brainless button mashing and countless cc.
It soaks condition damage too. I don’t get you, if you’re saying barrier should require timing, then hone your timing. Otherwise it’s as i said, you’ll be reducing pressure damage, either way, barrier works as advertised.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
This would make sense if WvW was not balanced as a PvE area. The issue is that Scourge is strong, very strong in WvW as it is and any PvE buff can make it totally broken. Well, from what’s been seen it’s already broken op in WvW and nerfs to the “PvE” (read WvW) side are already bound to happen at release.
Barrier will probably be hitten hard especially in the “PvE” area because none should be able to grant 160k extra health to a golem or a lord in WvW.
Wait, PvE and WvW aren’t split like PvE and PvP ?
PvP balance only affect sPvP, that’s nothing new. WvW is and has always been looked at like a PvE area. That’s why there are player that still say that reaper’s deathly chill is too strong.
Scourge that have effects that can affect 20 targets is designed with WvW in mind where you usually have those 20 target to support or those 20 foes to reckt, where you have plenty of boons to corrupt or plenty of condition to cleanse.
And the PvE balance will be done accordingly because this is in this PvE area that the maximum potential of the scourge tools will be reached. WvW being a PvE area is illogical yet this is a thing and I don’t think anet is ready to change this anytime soon.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
So you suggest in pvp/wvw you just spam the barrier, because “using them before the damage” is just a bad suggestion, unless you are psychic. What about the bait move? How far after release do you think people will learn to bait necros to use their barriers?
As proactive defense you need few sec of “breathing” time window or its just bad design.Once you’ve engaged a fight you are pretty much constantly taking damage in spvp. It’s why sustain is king, at which point, your barrier should not be running out via decay.
You get barrier as a secondary effect most of the time anyways, which means you aren’t spending time healing and not doing damage.
The ways weavers get barrier is a secondary effect on scourge its the main attraction its sacrificing your damage output to put a shade on you for the sake of getting that barrier.
… How are you sacrificing damage? F3 will cause F1 to strike, at your shade and barrier you. God forbid people actually have to use class mechanics. I had no issue tanking melee during the beta weekend, or pressure.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
This would make sense if WvW was not balanced as a PvE area. The issue is that Scourge is strong, very strong in WvW as it is and any PvE buff can make it totally broken. Well, from what’s been seen it’s already broken op in WvW and nerfs to the “PvE” (read WvW) side are already bound to happen at release.
Barrier will probably be hitten hard especially in the “PvE” area because none should be able to grant 160k extra health to a golem or a lord in WvW.
Wait, PvE and WvW aren’t split like PvE and PvP ?
PvP balance only affect sPvP, that’s nothing new. WvW is and has always been looked at like a PvE area. That’s why there are player that still say that reaper’s deathly chill is too strong.
Scourge that have effects that can affect 20 targets is designed with WvW in mind where you usually have those 20 target to support or those 20 foes to reckt, where you have plenty of boons to corrupt or plenty of condition to cleanse.
And the PvE balance will be done accordingly because this is in this PvE area that the maximum potential of the scourge tools will be reached. WvW being a PvE area is illogical yet this is a thing and I don’t think anet is ready to change this anytime soon.
Ok, thanks for the information. I didn’t really pay attention to WvW since I do mostly PvE and a bit of sPvP from time to time.
And I fully agree with the bolded part, that choice of design makes no sense to me.
The issue with Barrier is not that it decays rapidly (although there is a case that Drain Life or siphon mechanics could refresh it as that requires active combat and then would buff that other neglected Necro mechanic).
The problem I see is that barrier needs to be a split second decision in order to use for a counter to incoming damage for you or your team (higher skill ceiling, which is a good thing) so it needs to be instant or near instant (1/4s) cast. All of the current Scourge barrier abilities do so except for two abilities, the main heal Sand Flare and the one utility Serpent Siphon. These two abilities need to be adjusted even if the boon corrupt and ally targets are removed from them. Note, Weaver’s abilities and traits are perfect even with Lava Skin since it is a mere 1/4s cast time.
If anything gets added to Barrier, it should be a Retaliation boon (or a similar mechanic) to slightly disincentivize players from hitting you during it’s uptime. This then doesn’t screw with balance of incoming conditions, stacking protection boon mechanics, etc. that has been suggested here and it is universally useful in all game modes.
(edited by Artaz.3819)