Guild Wars 2

I play a carrion/dire necro in wvw.
solo roam.
sometimes I run into thieves that have at least 2 stun breaks and commit into the fight only when their stun breaks are up.
and every few seconds they will blink out of range or out of combat and just shadow you and keep repeating until they drain all my life force.

then they go in for the kill.

I can’t seem to burst them down because they just break stun and blink away. then repeat when their break stun is available again.

and after a while, my lifeforce is gone. and I’m a goner.

A Thief that doesn’t want to be caught won’t be caught, unfortunately. Maybe if you get some well-timed chills in right when they break and run you can catch up with some swiftness.

The WvW roaming arena is a Thief’s playground. Add an objective and you can take it while they go running, but otherwise if you fight in a"boundless" arena against a Thief, they can reset against you all they want, and there won’t be anything you can do that will work reliably. On one hand, they are playing intelligently and slowly wearing you down before killing you, as they are the assassins who can hit and run. That sort of tactic is much less useful in other aspects of the game, but it just happens to shine in WvW. Them’s the breaks.

You can try using vertical differentials combined with Spectral Armor to go about your business. You can run to camps and just port safely somewhere else on the map in an attempt to shake them. You’re fighting on their terms, and I get that you want to kill them in a 1v1 fight, but if they don’t let you, they don’t let you. Turn it around and put it on your terms, or kill a bunch of ambients as they run around behind you. Pull a deer or something and build LF from it as you move so you counteract their strategy.

Just don’t chase them, because that’s what they want.

@Cogbyrn

I hate to say this, but I fully agree with you.

Actually having played 1600+ hours on my necro mostly roaming alone in WvW, I already came to the same conclusion as you did.

I just couldn’t BEAR to admit it.

Unlike other classes that can still fight on equal terms against a thief that resets and reengages many times, a necro can’t because a necro is dependent on lifeforce which drains with each engagement and is not easily replenished if the thief knows what he is doing.

I just couldn’t bear the thought that a necro can never win against a patient thief…

what I do nowadays is as you advised…I teleport away if they blink far enough to go out of combat against me…

They run…I run…nobody gets to kill nobody…

Although as a condi necro you sort of counter them with heavy condis, a smart one wont die to tou. Your passive fear procs should scare him enough and save your other fears to interrupt his black powder+heartseeker combo. As others said chill can be handy and try not to save path of corruption for when they are at range.

Unfortunately a very good thief will still get away. Necro is just slow, especially condi. My suggestion is to change your way of thinking. Just accept that you won if he runs away.

Aslo there more skiledl the Thief are the more skilled you have to be and imho that meens u need to go Power. Power Necro has a wayyyy higher skill-cap then a Condi Necro (specially those that rely on SoS). A Thief will rarely drain a good power Necs Lifeforce but you need to be more on your toes in the fight, cant sit back and watch your Condis tick.. you need to pressure him back. I love that.

If a Necro is specced into Shadow Arts your Condi Build will be vastly less effective and if u dont time your Fear bursts correctly they can dance around you for along time waiting for a perfect opportunity, they cant do that when your LB hits for 6k.

Ravezaar.4951:

If a Necro is specced into Shadow Arts

Ha, 90% of them are specced into this trait line.

Ravezaar.4951:

Aslo there more skiledl the Thief are the more skilled you have to be and imho that meens u need to go Power. Power Necro has a wayyyy higher skill-cap then a Condi Necro (specially those that rely on SoS). A Thief will rarely drain a good power Necs Lifeforce but you need to be more on your toes in the fight, cant sit back and watch your Condis tick.. you need to pressure him back. I love that.

If a Necro is specced into Shadow Arts your Condi Build will be vastly less effective and if u dont time your Fear bursts correctly they can dance around you for along time waiting for a perfect opportunity, they cant do that when your LB hits for 6k.

I don’t know where your getting this idea that power necros are harder to play. I also don’t understand why you think a thief won’t be able to whittle down your life force, or why 6k life blasts change this fight at all. Care to explain your statements, or are you just going to make claims without logic or evidence.

zapv.8051:

Ravezaar.4951:

Aslo there more skiledl the Thief are the more skilled you have to be and imho that meens u need to go Power. Power Necro has a wayyyy higher skill-cap then a Condi Necro (specially those that rely on SoS). A Thief will rarely drain a good power Necs Lifeforce but you need to be more on your toes in the fight, cant sit back and watch your Condis tick.. you need to pressure him back. I love that.

If a Necro is specced into Shadow Arts your Condi Build will be vastly less effective and if u dont time your Fear bursts correctly they can dance around you for along time waiting for a perfect opportunity, they cant do that when your LB hits for 6k.

I don’t know where your getting this idea that power necros are harder to play. I also don’t understand why you think a thief won’t be able to whittle down your life force, or why 6k life blasts change this fight at all. Care to explain your statements, or are you just going to make claims without logic or evidence.

I get this from 5000+ hours on playing Necro, and Condi Necro is easy to play compared to Power Necro, so easy. First u have the fact that Condis once applied do the job for you were as Power requires that u actually hit to do dmg… that alone is a big diffrence.(goes for ALL classes).

And yes a Thief can whittle down even a Power Necros LF but it takes longer since “spectral” skills are much more common used in Power Builds then in Condi builds. Power builds rely much much more on LF and therefor have a clear tendency to actually build LF better, should I go on ?

As for the Life Blast well that dmg in was u get vs Thieves, add to that the much higher dmg u get from skills such as Life Transfer, end tick of Sh.Tentacles and ofc the passive Chill of Death trait that a Condi Necro just cant even come close to, these things kill Thieves even in stealth. Were u as Condi Necro say vs a Thief specced heavily into Shadow Arts when he under condi-pressure just goes into stealth and cleanse…

Condi is the easy choice for Necro and requires far less effort, not really hard to admit.

You dont. No class can kill an highly skilled and properly geared/specced thief that doesnt want to get caught. You’ll find it hard even for 3 people to kill them. Another thief can give chase but usually that’s just ends in a stalemate or entering a keep of course. After 2.5 years and almost daily threads about in-combat near perma stealth, Anet has done nothing. They obviously like it.

With the way WvW works, you dont have to kill them anyway. If they dont kill you and you dont kill them while you stilll keep them from acheiveing their goal (if you for example covered a camp), they get nothing. Mission accomplished.

Whenever I engage a thief like this (no matter the class I’m currently on) that keep running away and back again and I dont really have to go that way… I just turn around and go somewhere else. Its pointless.

On the upside, at least the necro is fairly equipped to deal with thieves, unlike many other classes. Well necros laugh at the stealth hut or stealth stomping. Fears means you can keep them visible for longer periods. Having easy access to chill is a good way to slow them down. With shroud you have a rapid response damage absorber. Being able to spec good for conditions can really ruin someones day if they are unprepared but power necros also have very strong attacks.

Same issue here from time to time… it’s the constant resetting until Lifeforce is empty that kills you – they need to remove the combo field on pistol 5 that allows stealth every few seconds

Avigrus.2871:

Same issue here from time to time… it’s the constant resetting until Lifeforce is empty that kills you – they need to remove the combo field on pistol 5 that allows stealth every few seconds

i think that would be a good thing to do. or just change smoke-leap-combo to something else, since smoke-field is just too fitting for a skill called ‘blackpowder’.
If a thief wants stealth, theres dagger offhand for it; and if (s)he wants a kitten ton of utility, thats offhand pistol.

Save staff #5 and throw it into their shadow refugee.

cursE.1794:

Save staff #5 and throw it into their shadow refugee.

so? then theres still shadowstep and bow#5. and you can dodge the mark.

If d/p, interrupt bp+hs combo every time you can. Bait breakstuns with cc’s and a few weak condis, and save a fear to finish them off. If the thief is good/ specced into SA, you can’t do much sadly.

Saying that condis “do the work for you” when they’re applied is like some Life Blast does the work for you when it hits. You can dodge condi application just like you can dodge direct damage application, and the fact that people still don’t recognize that literally blows my mind. It’s like the thought still hasn’t occurred to try dodging the appropriate application abilities, just like you’d dodge direct damage abilities. Some don’t have clear animations, but not all of the direct damage ones do either (burst ele/backstab).

Anyway, just keep an eye out for those ambients/extra mobs. Having a wolf on you isn’t going to be the difference-maker, and if you can generate enough LF from it, it will help counteract their whittle-down strategy. The kicker here is that if they end up talking trash about you cheesing LF gains, you can literally laugh right in their face. Or just go somewhere else, and if they say anything about running, you can laugh even harder.

It’s frustrating, but it’s what the class excels at over almost everything else. They should be good at something, and honestly, I wouldn’t expect a “Thief” to fight “fairly”.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Saying that condis “do the work for you” when they’re applied is like some Life Blast does the work for you when it hits. You can dodge condi application just like you can dodge direct damage application, and the fact that people still don’t recognize that literally blows my mind.

Disagree with everything there except the dodge but ppl that dont see the diffrence in effort u put in towards dmg between Condi & Power just “blows my mind”

Ravezaar.4951:

first paragraph

This is a common argument on the forum, but an illogical one. Condition builds at base level are in fact harder to play then power builds. As you said, conditions once applied deal their damage. That means a condition build has to first apply their conditions and then prevent them from getting removed to deal all their damage. This as opposed to power builds which deal all their damage up front meaning you have to heal to make up that lost health. In effect that means between a condition build and a power build that have equally telegraphed skills, the condition build will be harder to play because you have to reliably apply your damage and then keep it from getting removed.
In the case of power necro vs condition necro, both will probably take staff, so that’s a wash. Power necro is dependent on life transfer, tainted shackles, life blast, and dagger auto for damage. All either autos or aoe, so very very easy to hit and hard to consistently dodge. Condition necros rely on Grasping dead, enfeebling blood, deathly swarm, doom, tainted shackles, and dark path. Enfeebling blood, deathly swarm, and dark path are really easy to dodge at range. Doom is impossible to skill dodge, tainted shackles is the same, and grasping dead can be dodged if you know the animation. Arguably condition necros skills are harder to dodge, along with having to worry about condition removal. To me that makes condition necros harder.

second paragraph

I agree with most of what you said here, condition necros generally only bring last gasp, and spectral walk, but they are far less reliant on LF than power necros. Also, power necros do generally build life force better than condition necros with the dagger auto chain, and soul marks. Despite this, against a thief all of this is useless. A smart thief won’t even hit you when you use spectral armor, they will just wait it out. Also, you are unlikely to hit the complete dagger auto chain against a good thief. That means you’ll be left with soul marks for more LF. Therefore, you will have more life force, but you are also more reliant on LF for damage in Life blast. Condition necros really only use the last 3-4 skills and the rest is for tanking damage, that implies power necros need vastly more LF to maintain their damage levels. Arguably they aren’t getting that much more because of the way thieves work. I also want to point out that a power necro will not be anywhere near as tanky as a wvw condition necro and therefore you will eat bigger bursts with DS again limiting your total amount.

third paragraph and last sentence.

I can’t make heads or tails of the first part of the first sentence, “in was u get” doesn’t make much sense. The skills you listed do deal more damage as a power necro I agree, but it’s unlikely a decent thief will get hit by them. Good thieves stealth and disengage constantly, so channeled aoes are very easy for them to avoid by simply walking away, and they will never go below 50% health for chill of death (If they do they will stealth and leave). Also, a thief who takes the trait shadow’s embrace will remove one condition every 3 seconds in stealth. Considering wvw condition builds can maintain at least 4 conditions permanently it will take 9 seconds to remove all of them. That means the thief either used up all his initiative on black powder, 3X heartseeker or used shadow refuge (in which case my marks will still be applying conditions). 9 seconds is a lot of time to not remove condition necros bleeds, and 5 bleeds will tick for around 6500 total damage over 9 seconds. That’s easily a third of most thieves health.

Overall, I just think your being extraordinarily biased towards power necros even though condition necro builds are superior in 1vs1 situations in every game type. There is a reason Abjured have nos, it’s cause he wins all the 1vs1 and 2vs2s. Necros in general lose effectiveness as skill level rises, but power necros really start to lose out when players realize they can just cc you to death, and thieves with steal, stolen fear, and basilisk venom have plenty of that. The reason condition necros are better than other necro builds in 1vs1 and 2vs2 is because they have more soft and hard cc to maintain space and kite. Specifically the fear chains really hurt thieves, and with regards to the thread are probably the only way to kill a thief that is disengaging consistently (given that you’ve caused them to blow their stunbreaks without disengaging).

Yea Iam not gonna read all that, tho I will just say again: I didnt say Power was better then Condi in fact there is a reason u see 8/10ppl play Condi on Necro however LF gain and DS is far better in power Builds. And Condi is much easier to play due to it requires far less effort then power and that applies to ALL classes, Iam sticking by that and will still doubt the sincerity of those who disagree with last part.

Back to thread now: very good way then for both Condi and Power to gain LF vs THief is Soul Marks, my tip.

Also, even if the Thief doesn’t reset, if it’s a Backstab Thief especially, they can just be patient and watch you blow your dodges/LF on anticipated backstabs while they run around at range. I’ve fought one Thief that I can remember who was impossibly patient, and it was the most irritating fight I’ve ever been in. I fought him several times and realized that as a Power Necro, it wasn’t going to work unless I got lucky/played perfectly, and neither ever happened.

And again, in sPvP, he’s wasting boatloads of time delaying a kill, which just helps my team. In WvW, neither of us are accomplishing anything by standing around dueling, and since this game wasn’t designed with dueling in mind, it’s actually a miracle there are so many ways you can pretty viably run around solo and have fun fights with almost, if not every class.

EDIT

Ravezaar.4951:

And Condi is much easier to play due to it requires far less effort then power and that applies to ALL classes, Iam sticking by that and will still doubt the sincerity of those who disagree with last part.

He went above and beyond trying to respond to your post and demonstrate examples as to why your point may not be as sound as you think. You disregard what he said entirely because it was a lot of words I guess, then you again make a blanket claim that is completely unsupported beyond you just thinking that’s the case.

If you don’t want to have a discussion, that’s fine, but please don’t try to engage people in one if you aren’t going to even read what they have to say.

If playing necromancer versus a thief that never commits you will never win. The thief will also be unable to kill you for at-least 40 sec and an extra min if you pop plague form during when cool downs are off. for every min you survive you can survive another min because you would rotate all cool downs again.

Advice for condition Necromancer:
D/P thief that stealth spams, You must never play at their pace. if they stealth kite 3 seconds stealth runs out if they chased that means they are in range and you can cc and attempt to kill. You can not win against a good thief by honorably standing there waiting to get back stab. If the thief does not want to die you probably wont win but they will not be able to kill you. If they get mad and make mistakes you can win.

Blind spam thief: All your necro skills are slow and clunky to use when a thief is in your face and blinding you. Solution dodge the blinding shots. and counter with a conditions they will have to stealth or lose. while they are in stealth swap staff and lay low cooldown marks kite around them. they have to either dodge triggering the marks giving advanced notice for you to dodge a backstab of which you should have kited out their stealth duration so they can not do it again. if in tight spot ds 5 and 4 before fearing because those skills will consume your blind.

Dire condition thief: You win by outsmarting the thief. Having plague and spite signets gives you the highest chance of winning/scoring the kill. always try to land hits they will skirmish let them blow a few cool downs use putrid mark or dagger 4. they will pull back if you hit them and spend valuable condition removal. next engagement land spite they will have to burn all remaining condition removal. now let yourself get condi bombed and land plague sig they will die. If they ever use perplexity runes use your plague sig to bounce confusion stacks when they are attacking you. plague signet can be used at any time that you have sufficient amount of condition stacks on you in the rotation of cool downs. Do not use your heal to cleanse unless the theif has stealthed away and you can not bounce your conditions away. using your heal makes you susceptible heavy skirmishing tactics.

sword/evade thief: It is all about timing you must hit them between evades. You win or lose based on who plays better. if they skirmish a lot you may have trouble but they will not be able to kill you in a reasonable amount of time kite to friendly territory.

Master of Attrition by what ANET declares. The longer the fight goes, the stronger the Necros become. hAH!

Master of attrition owned by a better attrition.

They know what’s their work and I’m the Queen of England.

I got a very easy solution for this.

Every other class fights on the same terms against anyone that resets. You reset and heal back, every class also resets and heal back. and all the cool downs get reset and everyone starts off equal again.

EXCEPT THE NECRO.

they lose lifeforce that they cannot regain easily.

Solution:

Lifeforce refills to max when necros are out of combat. Like Health. So every time a thief resets, a necro’s lifeforce also regenerates back to the max so the next time the thief engages again, we fight on equal terms as when we first started as well.

EremiteAngel.9765:

they lose lifeforce that they cannot regain easily.

Solution:

Lifeforce refills to max when necros are out of combat. Like Health. So every time a thief resets, a necro’s lifeforce also regenerates back to the max so the next time the thief engages again, we fight on equal terms as when we first started as well.

I agree that life force should regen up to a minimum, so you dont start a fight unable to enter DS. but full LF bar is quite an advantage for the necro, it’d be too mcuh.

edit:
@ravezaar: completely agree with cogbyrn. if you dont read the post, then why do you even respond to it and dont just shut up?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Ravezaar.4951:

And Condi is much easier to play due to it requires far less effort then power and that applies to ALL classes, Iam sticking by that and will still doubt the sincerity of those who disagree with last part.

He went above and beyond trying to respond to your post and demonstrate examples as to why your point may not be as sound as you think. You disregard what he said entirely because it was a lot of words I guess, then you again make a blanket claim that is completely unsupported beyond you just thinking that’s the case.

If you don’t want to have a discussion, that’s fine, but please don’t try to engage people in one if you aren’t going to even read what they have to say.

This, so much this.

Don’t plug your ears and close your eyes and spout how you ‘think’ it is. That’s the reason people don’t learn anything.

How about Reaper’s precision?
is it a reliable way to get our lifeforce up?

EremiteAngel.9765:

How about Reaper’s precision?

Imo it’s generally a worse choice than Weakening Shroud, regardless of what build you’re playing, and it’s definitely not worth the slot if your gear is carrion/dire.

On topic, I both agree and disagree with some of the general sentiment in this thread:

1. Yes, thieves (like any other class really) have better attrition than necros.
However, the real culprit for our lack of it is not life force regen but regular healing. Even with scepter/dagger you can compensate that set’s unreliable lf regen through traits and utility skills. But our healing is simply bad no matter what we do.
So if life force really is an issue for you I’d switch utilities to something like S-Wall/Grasp/X.

2. SA thieves with high stealth uptime are, at least for me, the easiest type of thieves to fight against. I know very few players who can play d/p or d/d at a level that would pose a challenge at all, but it’s still an uphill battle for them rather than the other way around.
It gets a lot more tricky if they use a sword/X perma evade build. Much higher in-combat mobility and generally harder to hit at all usually means the fight is determined by how much lf you have initially.

3. @ condi vs power:
In general power builds are definitely not weaker than condi builds. Ultimately it depends on the player’s skill anyway, but in case of fighting thieves I’d definitely give power builds the edge. Because: Shadow’s Rejuvination and Shadow’s Embrace basically means you have the few seconds of the thief’s revealed debuff to one-shot them. Scepter/dagger just doesn’t have the necessary burst to pull that off. Power or hybrid builds on the other hand can do so more reliably and with higher frequency while maintaining a steady amount of life force.

So the “trick” here is basically to set them up to overextend without them realizing it. Prepare a burst combo while pretending to expose an opening for them. Draw them in, do just a little but enough damage to get them somewhere between 60-70% hp, maybe make them use up some endurance, keep them thinking they have the upper hand until it is too late for them to realize they should’ve backed off. If you follow up with a decent burst you can easily take control of the fight if it hasn’t ended at this point already. But like I said, scepter/dagger is usually too slow in that regard.

Reaper’s Precision is only worthwhile in Death Perception or a couple of other niche builds. Unless you’re going to have a high crit chance while spending a lot of time in death shroud, it’s not worth it. Weakening Shroud is always good, though.

For a power necro it’s really hard. Most will run the moment they see you enter deathshroud, then come back when you exit for an easy kill. If you use spectral grasp it’ll maybe let you chain them with doom for 2-3 hard hitting life blasts. Usually though they’ll start the fight because of the 900 range gap closer steal has, then use the skull fear in stealth and burst you down, or force you to enter deathshroud and again, run away.

For condition it’s a lot easier. If you have runes of the nightmare, the fear proc will interrupt their initiation, then if they skill fear you (and they will) they’ll be feared from reaper’s protection.

I run a 6/4/4 condition build for roaming with dhuumfire, for the extra damage. Also run shrouded removal as that will remove the fear from skull fear, letting you turn around and blast them with life blast, tainted shackles, and chain into doom for another fear. Exit deathshroud, pop signet of spite to make their life heck. Use scepter 2 an knife 5 to stack bleeds, weakness and cripple. At thi point they should b near dead or dead. If they try and use shadow refuge, fear them out of it with staff 5, don’t not combo it with chilblains, o they’ll stay in it when they go down. If that happens use staff one to keep them from reading and go into ds to use life transfer and tainted shackles if they’re on cool down. Use corrupt boon if they have boons of course, as it applies a lot more pressure. For a stunbreaker, use what you want, I prefer plague signet personally. For an elite if human, I’d use hounds of Balthazar, they apply aoe burning that scales with condition duration and condition damage. Flesh golem the knockdown is great, but I find it’s better to keep an ace in the hole.

The main thing when fighting a thief is limiting their options, as they have a ton. The only real way to do that is CC, cripple and chill help, as well a weakness, but with their teleports and initiative they are semi immune to cripple an chill you could say. Sorry this is typed hastily, on my phone so yeah.

you simply can’t a thief that’s playing for defensive you can’t kill him.
unless he got greedy and wanted the kill then you may have chance of killing him specially in WvW where people just run SA and stuff.

You can’t kill a theif that keeps resetting.

Ignore it.

zapv.8051:

All either autos or aoe, so very very easy to hit and hard to consistently dodge.

If you can’t dodge a LB then you should just uninstall. LB is one of the easiest aa in the game to dodge.

Most of what you said I just disagree with. Power necro’s are far more applicable in a 1v1 versus a thief or mesmer simply because burst damage is your key to victory. In either build (condi or power) you’re going to have to keep them on their toes by way of interrupts so saying thats just a conditionmancers job is silly. A zerker necro is a risky approach as well since burst will rule out both ways which I think is reason behind them being considered more difficult to play as (allowing less room for error).

I also find a condition necro running perplexity runes is kinda faceroll XD. Just my opinion.

Still, concerning the OP, Chills are your friend. If you’re main concern is thieves or mesmers you should run more chills.

I’d argue Powermancer is more difficult to play as against classes/specs who can break target fairly often and have ample availability of blind/block. Against some classes/specs, it’s literally the easiest thing in the world, and there have been more situations than I can count where I’ll hop into DS form and 1 spam someone thinking “Welp, nothing they can do about this now”. They’ll dodge two in a row admirably, but it doesn’t matter at that point. The hits won’t stop.

Of course it isn’t faceroll easy, but I’d argue it’s a simple mentality shift from Condi, and not really that hard at all to pull off. Condi was probably historically easier to pull off because people seemed to hate the idea of bringing condi-clears/transfers/etc., similar to how people seemed to hate bringing stun breaks back in the Bull’s Charge + 100 Blades era.

I also never thought I was well-equipped in the slightest as a Powermancer to take on PU Mesmers a few months back. The burst is all well and good, but the amount of stealth/block/confusion that would come out would be far too much to reliably deal with. It really was a bit of a guessing game against Thieves. Some knew how to time their blinds to ruin any plans of really hitting them, others knew how to set themselves up to be interrupted into a burst.

In most all situations regardless of the type, they knew how to Shadowstep + Any Mobility Skill away and completely reset the fight, often with a Shadow Refuge way far away as well. It all really depends on the Thieves you fight, and setting yourself up to potentially find success with timed bursts/consistent pressure/ambient awareness.

Also, keep your ears peeled for cries for help that signify downed state if a Thief uses Shadow Refuge at low health. As a Powermancer you can spiral out from the location swinging your dagger if you use one, and otherwise you can try manually aiming shots of your staff around/dropping AoEs/using Life Transfer. It’s irritating to play a guessing game for 10+ seconds while you wait to see whether the Thief is still in downed state or miles away waiting until reset to re-engage, but that’s roaming life.

TheDevice.2751:

zapv.8051:

All either autos or aoe, so very very easy to hit and hard to consistently dodge.

If you can’t dodge a LB then you should just uninstall. LB is one of the easiest aa in the game to dodge.

Most of what you said I just disagree with. Power necro’s are far more applicable in a 1v1 versus a thief or mesmer simply because burst damage is your key to victory. In either build (condi or power) you’re going to have to keep them on their toes by way of interrupts so saying thats just a conditionmancers job is silly. A zerker necro is a risky approach as well since burst will rule out both ways which I think is reason behind them being considered more difficult to play as (allowing less room for error).

I also find a condition necro running perplexity runes is kinda faceroll XD. Just my opinion.

Still, concerning the OP, Chills are your friend. If you’re main concern is thieves or mesmers you should run more chills.

One life blast is very easy to dodge yes, but 5 in a row isn’t, and dagger auto isn’t, that’s what I’m saying. The main powermancer damage is from autos which are by definition spammable.

I obviously disagree on your second point, but at least you have some reasons unlike the other guy. In this scenario, burst damage will allow you to kill a thief way more quickly, but unless the thief can’t avoid or disengage during that time it doesn’t matter (That’s the problem with power necros in general, they deal a lot of damage relatively quickly, but it is also easy to avoid). The thing about condition necros in wvw is that removing the conditions down to the bleed stacks requires a lot of removal.
So even if the thief can get away, they might still die 2000 range from you due to conditions unless they blow hide in shadows and shadowstep (shadow’s embrace can’t keep up with necro condition application). I agree both builds will need to keep interrupting and ccing the thief, but condition necros are way better at that. Fear duration is longer, longer soft cc coniditions, and more fears assuming you take at least one of nightmare runes, spectral wall, or reaper’s protection.

I can agree with the argument that zerker necro gets a bump in difficulty because it has less health, but the constant argument (of the forums not you) that condition damage is easier to hit than power damage really grinds my gears. Also, this is another reason condition necro is stronger imo against a thief, more health and toughness means your less vulnerable to their massive bursts (trying to random dodge 8k backstabs sucks).

last but not least, of course condi necro with perplexity runes is faceroll, that is the point

If caught by a thief that keeps resetting the fight then there are a few things you can do to get out of it or lessen the amount of cheapness.

- Keep moving your battle to where other ambiant creatures are to refill your DS.
- Jump into water in hopes that he will chase. Their ability to reset a fight is limited underwater.
- Have a waypoint clicked and be ready to port when he runs/hides to reset the fight.
- Oddly, make the thief chase you. By doing this you can tell where he will be (running behind you) and leave marks/wells/etc for him to pass and be damaged. Do this until you can do any of the other steps above.

Other than that, a resetting perplex thief will eventually wear you down for a stealth stomp.

zapv.8051:

last but not least, of course condi necro with perplexity runes is faceroll, that is the point

I really hope that I’m not the only one that finds perplexity necros overrated. In my experience with roaming, I have a 100% win rate against perplexity necros outside of times when the Necro has friends and I don’t.

They’re just…easy to fight. Maybe it’s just my build, but there have been multiple times on my stream where I just say “silly Perplexity Necro,” as I finish them with about 75% health and 80%-full life force.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

zapv.8051:

last but not least, of course condi necro with perplexity runes is faceroll, that is the point

I really hope that I’m not the only one that finds perplexity necros overrated. In my experience with roaming, I have a 100% win rate against perplexity necros outside of times when the Necro has friends and I don’t.

They’re just…easy to fight. Maybe it’s just my build, but there have been multiple times on my stream where I just say “silly Perplexity Necro,” as I finish them with about 75% health and 80%-full life force.

I don’t know that I’d care about a Perplexity Necro either, but that’s mostly because Necro fights seem to be more about who successfully transfers back onto whom than anything else. Necros are really well-suited for dealing with other Necros for the most part, depending on your weapons/utilities.

Perplexity Runes are probably faceroll for some people because the amount of duration you can get in WvW for those runes is enormous, so just being struck, you have a chance to apply ~8-10 seconds of 3 stacks of confusion. If you get a Fear interrupt (people are almost always casting something), it’s another 5 stacks for ~13-16 seconds. It’s ludicrous. Even if you notice that you have these stacks, as another class, there might not be a whole lot you can do about it, which means trying to fight back for upwards of 15 seconds will get you killed very quickly.

Perplexity on a PU Mesmer was a nightmare. Perplexity on a Thief wouldn’t be as bad, but they potentially have more dodges/etc. Perplexity on a Necro is probably the easiest to transfer back, and if you avoid the re-transfer back, you’re on easy street. Or the Perplexity Necros just don’t have much roaming practice against other Necros so don’t realize it’s back on them in time.

And here I’m doing it without transfers :p

Your reasoning makes sense, though. I rarely roam on other professions, and I haven’t managed to run into a Perplexity Necro on my Ranger yet (only other roamer I use).

Just do enough to deter him and make his life difficult, otherwise ignore. Leave marks as you travel so they have to weave or dodge constantly, they will get tired of it too. Thief has far too many escapes to bother chasing down, but give them a few good bursts and they will look for easier prey. Insta fear in shroud followed by 2-3 lifeblasts is usually enough for most thieves to decide to move on. Gather lifeforce from ambients as you travel.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I just say “silly Perplexity Necro,” as I finish them with about 75% health and 80%-full life force.

Without perplexity you’d have stomped them with 85% hp :P

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And here I’m doing it without transfers :p

Your reasoning makes sense, though. I rarely roam on other professions, and I haven’t managed to run into a Perplexity Necro on my Ranger yet (only other roamer I use).

You don’t use any of the condi transferring abilities when dealing with a Perplexity Condi Necro, and they don’t get you past 75% health? What are they doing, Scepter Autos? I mean you could use Consume to eat all 8 stacks of Confusion, though unless you timed it properly the Consume Conditions cast itself would hit you for 8 stacks of Confusion damage, and if you’re Fear’d out of it, you’re already looking at roughness.

I’d be really curious to see what they’re doing if you don’t transfer any conditions and still wreck them, because a preliminary thought experiment tells me they’re standing still. Then again, I’m not sure what build you’re using and I’m assuming a spectral Power variant of some kind, so my assumption could just be silly buggers.

Sorry for diverting the thread, I’m just intrigued at how Perplex Necros could fail so spectacularly against Drarnor here. I can ask him in PM if that’d be a better idea.

Turns out, Perplexity necros (actually condition necros in general) don’t really fare that well against Spectral Power builds. Death Shroud is extremely effective at absorbing the damage and I can sustain much better. Shrouded Removal also helps (you should know by now I run an Unholy Sanctuary build, as much as I’ve talked about it).

And the “they’re standing still” is also a big factor. Immobilize is nice, since Deathly Swarm can’t transfer it if you’re behind them.

It’s not so much that they don’t deal damage to me as it is I can simply out-sustain them by such a large margin that the fight really is quite one-sided.

I roam with thief in WvW almost daily

The only way to kill Thief using stealth heavy build is through burst either conditions or power – you must play VERY aggressively – if you do not land a hard CC combo or 10k damage burst I will simply drain that LF and continuously stealth until i get an opening

You gotta land the fear and 2 LB for 10+k instant damage then use DS#4

For condis you gotta land an interrupt procing confusion and wait till after shadow step to attempt a fear chain with staff and ds fear

Very uphill battle for a Necro it is too easy to create space and stall as a Thief in WvW