Guild Wars 2

In wvw roaming. I played every class and to me necros have a better time winning against those hard classes like P/D thieves and Mesmers. I don’t know what it is, maybe experience or whatever but every time I play a ranger or an ele and have my kitten handed to me by those classes I logged in my necro to fight them, it seems people are seriously underestmateing necros.

I don’t think they’re underrated at all in WvW. There’s a reason GWEN exists, and there’s a reason you see a number of them roaming.

I think it’s more likely you hear how poor they are in organized PvE and how they don’t fit into many group comps in SPvP and are attributing that to their performance in WvW, when that is not the case at all.

No one thinks necros are weak in wvw or pvp. Just pve.

You have an easy time against condi theives and mesmers which is what you see in wvw roaming. They have little condi clear you have a ton including transfers, only takes them being visible for s second to hit with dagger 4 and staff 4. Although that has very little to do with GWEN meta as that is more of a power necro anyway with wells.

They are not weak in WvW or really sPvP just that they are ALWAYS first to be targeted by other classes (and NO its not cause we are always biggest threat) its simple put cause everyone that knows this game, knows a Necro is the 1 class that cant disengage from a fight, he is not a sittind duck howver but he cant get away.

This is the nr1 reason ( and PvE I dont ever do so it dosent bother me)

People diss necromancers because they cannot disengage away like a coward, but in the grand scheme of things this means nothing. Necros are pretty much strong in any context of wvw outside of solo that actually matters.

People are running under the false assumption of “not being stomped” = winning, which is generally nonsense in any pvp mode because actually killing players is only part of the thing. The game was never balanced around people running away forever in a infinite field— there’s a reason why permastealth sucks in spvp.

If a necro prevents you from taking a target, then you have failed and they won, but that 2/0/6/0/6 thief over there thinks he’s so pro because he ran away and that necro is a noob for losing a 1v4 fight.

WvW is a place where people brag about running away in fights that barely matter. That’s just silly. If that’s the only place where a class sucks, I could care less.

And yes, I roam on many things from thief to necro and will die. Sometimes I try to avoid it, but it’s not like repairs cost anything.

When i used to wvw regularly with my necro, I’d build her for wells and marks support but she’d also be tough enough to get in just behind the G,W front line and clean up. If your front line is holding solid, jumping into death shroud or plague to cause havoc in the enemy front line makes it easier for your team. Even if you go down, you’ve contributed a lot to winning the fight. Several plaguing necros spamming the blind pulses can really turn the tide. Reaper’s mark with static fields and lines of warding at the right moment can seriously disrupt an unprepared charge.

I don’t spvp so i don’t really care about how she’d perform there

necros are horrible in everything

In zerg warfare, a condi necro is worthless. There’s just too much condi removal going on. A zerker necro can pop lich often, so there is that…

But zerker necros are only effective against people that have never dealt with one before. If you’ve run into them before, you know they’re a one-trick pony.

Can a zerker DS necro shoot you down? yes. So leave. They can’t catch you, so you just wait for their DS to run out, and then you come back. Same thing for lich…

Necros are horrible at stacking bleeds, so a zerker has plenty of time to take one out. DPS is a race, if a necro needs 12 seconds to do 1000 damage, and you’re spamming 4-5k heartseekers and dropping all conditions just by stealthing… what a joke…

Necros have tricks, and once someone has learned your tricks it’s over.

Ezeriel.9574:

necros are horrible in everything

In zerg warfare, a condi necro is worthless. There’s just too much condi removal going on. A zerker necro can pop lich often, so there is that…

But zerker necros are only effective against people that have never dealt with one before. If you’ve run into them before, you know they’re a one-trick pony.

Can a zerker DS necro shoot you down? yes. So leave. They can’t catch you, so you just wait for their DS to run out, and then you come back. Same thing for lich…

Necros are horrible at stacking bleeds, so a zerker has plenty of time to take one out. DPS is a race, if a necro needs 12 seconds to do 1000 damage, and you’re spamming 4-5k heartseekers and dropping all conditions just by stealthing… what a joke…

Necros have tricks, and once someone has learned your tricks it’s over.

Sounds like all you play against are noob necros.

Azrael.4960:

Ezeriel.9574:

necros are horrible in everything

In zerg warfare, a condi necro is worthless. There’s just too much condi removal going on. A zerker necro can pop lich often, so there is that…

But zerker necros are only effective against people that have never dealt with one before. If you’ve run into them before, you know they’re a one-trick pony.

Can a zerker DS necro shoot you down? yes. So leave. They can’t catch you, so you just wait for their DS to run out, and then you come back. Same thing for lich…

Necros are horrible at stacking bleeds, so a zerker has plenty of time to take one out. DPS is a race, if a necro needs 12 seconds to do 1000 damage, and you’re spamming 4-5k heartseekers and dropping all conditions just by stealthing… what a joke…

Necros have tricks, and once someone has learned your tricks it’s over.

Sounds like all you play against are noob necros.

I don’t think he plays against them given his posting history…

L2power wells necro.

Ezeriel.9574:

necros are horrible in everything

In zerg warfare, a condi necro is worthless. There’s just too much condi removal going on. A zerker necro can pop lich often, so there is that…

There’s a reason why the WvW zerg meta is called GWEN. And it has little to do with lich form, even if it’s part of it.

If someone brings a condi necro into a zerg fight and does poorly, it doesn’t mean necros are worthless. Condi builds in general are not good in zergs, so I don’t see why this is even a point. It means the player is worthless for bringing a sword to a gunfight.

I would say WvW is actually the game mode were necromancer are the strongest, due the fact that they can pretty much always start a fight with 100% LF (unlike spvp) and the problems necros have in pve are a non factor. The difference between 0% and 100% LF is rather big, which makes DS a balancing nightmare (i still cannot believe that Anet seems fine with such an hard to balance mechanic, considering the fact that they removed the second professions due balancing reasons).

Very strong in WvW. They are great in PvP for dealing with the celestial boon stacking garbage meta, but necros have to fight an uphill battle in PvP since you are started off with 0 life force.

Best classes for roaming are thief/mesmer/warrior/ele/engie. All of them can engage and disengage from fight. Necros can’t catch anyone or run out if they need too.

Ezeriel.9574:

necros are horrible in everything

In zerg warfare, a condi necro is worthless. There’s just too much condi removal going on. A zerker necro can pop lich often, so there is that…

But zerker necros are only effective against people that have never dealt with one before. If you’ve run into them before, you know they’re a one-trick pony.

Can a zerker DS necro shoot you down? yes. So leave. They can’t catch you, so you just wait for their DS to run out, and then you come back. Same thing for lich…

Necros are horrible at stacking bleeds, so a zerker has plenty of time to take one out. DPS is a race, if a necro needs 12 seconds to do 1000 damage, and you’re spamming 4-5k heartseekers and dropping all conditions just by stealthing… what a joke…

Necros have tricks, and once someone has learned your tricks it’s over.

A good necro can drop half the zerg in one bomb, and it ain’t a condi necro.

I’m honestly a bit disappointed with the whole ‘Necros are fine because they are in the meta’ argument. Any class with power burst AE is in the meta. You really don’t do much outside of drop your wells, blains, and life transfer. It’s a very mundane existance.

How does the class do at smaller scale fights and roaming where class mechanics and player skill start to have a larger impact on the outcome of a fight?

I will preface by saying I haven’t played the Necro long so some of this may very well be a result of that, but the lack of any mobility skill makes roaming quite difficulty because you’re ran over eventually even if you saw the zerg in the distance. Once engaged you must fully commit because you have 0 chance of escape.

The lack of stability makes kiting all the more important, but many classes can out kite you. the attack range on all of our weapons outside of staff (and the staffs poor damage overall) make kiting all the more difficult. Condi is great, but I feel like I’m out condi’d by everyone. The saving grace is the Necro has more tools than some of the other condi classes for actually dealing with them. But we certainly aren’t piling them on nearly as quick as a Engi or have numerous sources of confusion to slow down the fight like a Mesmer.

I realize I’m new and some of these complaints may not be legitimate, but this is what I see on a daily basis.

The class needs a mobility skill.
Axe needs to have its range bumped up to 900.
Dagger auto really should be higher like 600.
I really don’t feel like Scepter/Dagger is piling on bleeds fast enough at times. Especially if you should ever miss a skill.

All IMO of course. And like I said, I realize some of this is growing pains as I become more familiar with the class.

As someone who mains a Necro for wvw, I can say its an excellent class for zerging, roaming, and havok. Yes there are some downsides, like with any class, mainly less escapes then most classes, and thieves can be tough because of stealth spamming, but this is why you have to play a little smarter and setup properly. There is excellent sustainability and very high damage. Ive been on a tank war and have been melted by condi necros, and I can melt wars/guards on my zerker necro.

Also most every guild I see recruiting for wvw is in need of necros, so I wouldnt say they are underrated.

X T D.6458:

As someone who mains a Necro for wvw, I can say its an excellent class for zerging, roaming, and havok. Yes there are some downsides, like with any class, mainly less escapes then most classes, and thieves can be tough because of stealth spamming, but this is why you have to play a little smarter and setup properly. There is excellent sustainability and very high damage. Ive been on a tank war and have been melted by condi necros, and I can melt wars/guards on my zerker necro.

Also most every guild I see recruiting for wvw is in need of necros, so I wouldnt say they are underrated.

It really is so nice to have so many ways to peel that stability off warriors and guardians. They just flop around after that.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

A good necro can drop half the zerg in one bomb, and it ain’t a condi necro.

Are we talking wells here? Because I find most people know better by now than to stand in them. In fact Ive given up on them for the moment aside from well of power for stun break, because it has the nice side effect of area denial too since everyone dances around any well they see.

met.9653:

Best classes for roaming are thief/mesmer/warrior/ele/engie. All of them can engage and disengage from fight. Necros can’t catch anyone or run out if they need too.

I’ve always had a problem with defining ‘best’ as ‘best at running away’.

Ezeriel.9574:

necros are horrible in everything

In zerg warfare, a condi necro is worthless. There’s just too much condi removal going on. A zerker necro can pop lich often, so there is that…

But zerker necros are only effective against people that have never dealt with one before. If you’ve run into them before, you know they’re a one-trick pony.

Can a zerker DS necro shoot you down? yes. So leave. They can’t catch you, so you just wait for their DS to run out, and then you come back. Same thing for lich…

Necros are horrible at stacking bleeds, so a zerker has plenty of time to take one out. DPS is a race, if a necro needs 12 seconds to do 1000 damage, and you’re spamming 4-5k heartseekers and dropping all conditions just by stealthing… what a joke…

Necros have tricks, and once someone has learned your tricks it’s over.

There comes a time in a man’s life that he has to speak out against the idiocy of this world. Why the F 2 spaces K does it have to be about a video game? This ain’t brain surgery yo.

The only reason this idiot (ehh…wait a minute…he’s running, me necro is fearing, flag in his kitten , wabbit… OY YEAH) THAT IDIOT is running away from my necro is cause I feared, well my wabbits feared him not the actual fear itself.

HANDLED (MFer)
HAPPIETHYME

met.9653:

Best classes for roaming are thief/mesmer/warrior/ele/engie. All of them can engage and disengage from fight. Necros can’t catch anyone or run out if they need too.

Consider yourself lucky you haven’t gotten one of my giant wurm sprung up your kitten and exploded and then me sprouted from the wurm’s poison cloud right as I finish summoning 2 ugly kitten deformed ( I don’t even know what F they) things and explode them right under your kitten POP POP nothing but greens. Guess I won’t chasing you after all since my wabbits already caught you.

HANDLED (MFer)
Happiethyme

Kilger.5490:

Thustlewhumber.7416:

A good necro can drop half the zerg in one bomb, and it ain’t a condi necro.

Are we talking wells here? Because I find most people know better by now than to stand in them. In fact Ive given up on them for the moment aside from well of power for stun break, because it has the nice side effect of area denial too since everyone dances around any well they see.

If your running with an organized group/zerg it’s gets easier to time the cc train with the wells. But that and pve are the only times I would ever recommend using any well other than wop. With that said…. one necro is not dropping anything in a zerg by themselves that is an extreme exaggeration.

@battlerobot not sure if srs. Wurm is good but mm necro makes a horrible roamer to me. Horrible in wvw all around imo.

Hes basically right tho.

Until the serge gets so big that the soup covers everything, and then the necromancer ability to AoE while moving, and the high HP, the ranged damage from wells, and the non-capped fear wall make you very useful in the Zerg. And that’s before you hit your tanky blind & chill spam mode.

So necromancers are part of GWEN, great in zergplay.

Pvp — no mobility
PvE — no utility for the team or reflects

It’s interesting the tone of the last update. given that necromancers have been wishing for mobility and utility, anet responded by saying "your mobility is locust, and your utility is signet of undeath. It was kind of a screw you.

nekretaal.6485:

Hes basically right tho.

Until the serge gets so big that the soup covers everything, and then the necromancer ability to AoE while moving, and the high HP, the ranged damage from wells, and the non-capped fear wall make you very useful in the Zerg. And that’s before you hit your tanky blind & chill spam mode.

So necromancers are part of GWEN, great in zergplay.

Pvp — no mobility
PvE — no utility for the team or reflects

It’s interesting the tone of the last update. given that necromancers have been wishing for mobility and utility, anet responded by saying "your mobility is locust, and your utility is signet of undeath. It was kind of a screw you.

ummm no they didn’t say that was mobility and that is utility they were simply buffing kitten utilities. (I assume you mean sol which was kitten is kitten and will continue to be kitten even after patch)

Trying using wurm and swalk in pvp and tell me we aren’t mobile or try a spectral zerker necro with swalk and warhorn and wurm.

Pve we are kitten compared to other classes.

Not sure if anyone has commented on this, yet, but all the conditions and corruptions from Necromancer force opponents to run clears and bunker more than they might otherwise.

Power/duration -based conditions like chill, blind, weakness, cripple, even poison can turn a fight to a route if the opponents do not carry defenses for it.

If you think your marks, WoC, or CPC do nothing, remember players on the other team had to build for it.

“A good necro can drop half the zerg in one bomb, and it ain’t a condi necro.”

I’d really like to know what you’re doing that I’m not, because I call BS on that claim.

I’ve heard people boasting about DS 1, 2-shotting Guardians from half health but in full ascended zerker gear I feel like I could DS 1 all day without taking one down, then they’d turn around an kill me in 5 seconds…

I think what OP means by underrated is in terms of roaming, since that’s what he’s mentioned.

Necro’s are underrated because they have very low mobility, no way to escape/reset a fight and are usually focused down very quickly if in a small group. They are not weak at all however, just vulnerable to being blobbed, which happens to roamers a lot. The thing with roaming is that anyone can add to a fight or a blob can roll through at any second. Having high mobility or lots of ways to disengage, such as stealth or teleports, are great ways to ensure you survive and, if used properly, to ensure you win outnumbered fights by a method such as kiting.

Necro’s are not ideal duelists in the sense that they are not evade-y, slippery targets and, despite how ANet describes them, are not exactly masters of attrition. They are still however extremely difficult for any given profession to handle simply for their massive health pool, massive damage and various ways to manage conditions and strip or corrupt boons.

When I say “not ideal duelists” I mean it sort of like.. Think of a fencer versus a knight.. A very pokey, jabby, nimble swordsman versus a fully armored knight with a heavy sword. The knight’s going to be slow and have some weak spots the fencer can easily exploit, but because the knight is so armored and will hit considerably harder, it doesn’t really matter how careful or fit for a duel the fencer is… The knight can just flat out endure and out damage the fencer regardless of whether he’s more skilled with his sword.

1v1, unless the Necro is bad or against a heavy CC opponent such as a mace/hammer Warrior or a lockdown Mesmer, the Necromancer will very often have the upper hand just simply due to their health, damage output and defense manipulation.

EDIT: Also, after reading through the comments, if you’re struggling to out DPS people or think our conditions are lack luster… You need to practice more.. I can pile on every condition in the game save confusion in about 2seconds without using Signet Of Spite. And I have no problem chopping peoples health bars up with a power build while still having enough defense via Death Shroud to endure any punches to the face I might have to take. Necro’s are poop in PvE and medicore in PvP but absurdly strong in WvW. It just takes time to learn the rotations which, like an Elementalist, is how you get the most out of your damage.

It also means picking your fights carefully. I mentioned on my stream the other night that I spend a lot of time in WvW running away from potential fights because I know I can’t handle a 1v3+ unless the other players are just bad. Nobody else in my guild likes to play WvW, so my roaming is all done solo unless I happen to run into another friendly roamer.

Current state of necro:

-For blobing is a zerker well bot.
-For pve extremely garbage. No group utility.
-For spvp fearmancer slightly op.
-For roaming: slow, easily ganked by superior numbers.

Problem with necro roaming is that the best 1v1 spec is slow as hell and has no leaps.

xDudisx.5914:

Current state of necro:

-For blobing is a zerker well bot.
-For pve extremely garbage. No group utility.
-For spvp fearmancer slightly op.
-For roaming: slow, easily ganked by superior numbers.

Problem with necro roaming is that the best 1v1 spec is slow as hell and has no leaps.

You do understand terrormancer had been nerfed a few times. I would hardly call them op If you aren’t dumb and expect the passive procs.

imaclown.1628:

xDudisx.5914:

Current state of necro:

-For blobing is a zerker well bot.
-For pve extremely garbage. No group utility.
-For spvp fearmancer slightly op.
-For roaming: slow, easily ganked by superior numbers.

Problem with necro roaming is that the best 1v1 spec is slow as hell and has no leaps.

You do understand terrormancer had been nerfed a few times. I would hardly call them op If you aren’t dumb and expect the passive procs.

It is still very strong. Maybe after jan 27th with nightmare’s rune nerf it will be more balanced.

WvWvW, necro = fantastic

PvP, necro = meh to decent.

PvE, Necro = ultra complete awfull might as well not exist in PvE.

Honestly in wvw roaming perplexity dhummfire terror necro in dire with some rabid is nearly unbeatable 1vs1(with life force). The only way you can lose is if the other person disengages numerous times, but you should be able to wp if they disengage when your at low lf. I say this as someone who has played p/d thief, pu mes, plenty of ele builds, and plenty of engineer builds (warriors, rangers, and guards aren’t great roamers).

necros are horrible in everything
[…]
Can a zerker DS necro shoot you down? yes. So leave. They can’t catch you, so you just wait for their DS to run out, and then you come back. Same thing for lich…

As a power nec, I’ve fought warriors in 1on1s who just kept engaging me, getting the kitten beaten out of them and running away without me being able to finish them. Over and over again. At some point, I realized that I’m ok with that. I’d rather play a slow class that can smash anything in a straight fight than a mobile class that can’t stay in face – to – face range without either dying or running away.