Guild Wars 2

I recently bumped into a fellow necro WvW roamer and she was running a power/lifesteal build.

She was very strong and had incredible sustain, and despatched many of the enemy roamers 1v1 and 1v2. I asked for her build and if i remember correctly it was full magi armor, superior rune of vamp, with berserker weapons with sigil of blood and berserker trinkets, traits were 40064. Axe/something and dagger/something.

anyone tried a variant of this build in WvW? how does it fare solo roaming 1v1?

I did something that I felt she might have been using here but I’m sure I got many parts off lol and can’t really guess the rest…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHbhGuIHNt0webiaBZ6nT3CZiAUG+MA-T1BGwAEV+5S9nyaFqoLAwTAw2+DTVCGAABgbezje0bezBBYO-w

oh and also she said her hardest matchup with this build is a warrior

Everyone on this forum is universally opposed to the lifesteal/vampire builds, claiming it’s broken. Haven’t tried it myself so i wouldn’t know. Now run for the hills before you’re lynched by the mobs lol.

I have run similar builds and they are very fun until you run in to a range or someone that is good at kitting and then your just a sitting duck with basically no way to hit your target. Certainly ds will cover this in some situations but running solo means you need to build life force slowly just like a pvp match. Also to note your damage is almost half what the meta build is, so expect long fights.

MAN.9046:

Everyone on this forum is universally opposed to the lifesteal/vampire builds, claiming it’s broken. Haven’t tried it myself so i wouldn’t know. Now run for the hills before you’re lynched by the mobs lol.

I only see the “Life Steal sucks” and “Blood Magic is garbage” approach, so tell me more about those considering it broken, and why it is broken when eg- Warris sustain a lot more while having an invuln aswell as higher damage and stability?

Shiki.7148:

MAN.9046:

Everyone on this forum is universally opposed to the lifesteal/vampire builds, claiming it’s broken. Haven’t tried it myself so i wouldn’t know. Now run for the hills before you’re lynched by the mobs lol.

I only see the “Life Steal sucks” and “Blood Magic is garbage” approach, so tell me more about those considering it broken, and why it is broken when eg- Warris sustain a lot more while having an invuln aswell as higher damage and stability?

Like I said, I wouldnt know since I have’nt tried such a build

I’ve tried a magi build , vampireism , blood and leeching sigil , d/d staff build in WvW. I first thought it was quite good, but then I played a normal power necro and that was much better as I did much more damage and the lifesteals didn t heal me for alot anyway.

I’ve been experimenting with this for alot , I even have the build lying around for those who are interested. I greatly recommed not to run anything like this, except if you’re doing liadri or having alot of gold.

The problem I have with such builds (regardless of how effective they might be) is that the bulk of the life stealing actually comes from food, sigils and runes, NOT the Necro traits So yeah, “Blood Magic is garbage” hits the nail on the head I think.

I’ve played a similar build except with clerics and worked pretty good with regen food. Not only do you get heals from hits, you get regen from the minior trait, health per second with food and a major buff with healing power and Superior Rune of the Monk. Took it a dungeon and never went under 50%. While it’s not the tankiest, it provides good healing.

Only proxy knowledge of it, but if my bro is correct, “Strawberry, blood sigil on each weapon + vamp runes are enough to outdo all life steal necro got”. Also probably the source of the builds sustain.

Was siphon food in use is all I want to know…

The blood line is awful, and the runes and sigils are awful, but lifesteal food is good. Use lifesteal food on anybody with fast attacks (like a theif or guardian) for great sustain.

I wouldn’t get too worked up over a single player doing pretty well in WvW in a few 1v1 and 1v2 scenarios. There are a lot of TERRIBLE players in WvW and it isn’t unheard of to see some class pull off 1v3 and 1v4 fights in some situations. I could probably go out there naked or traitless and tear some of those guys apart no problem.

Food/other buffs also tend to skew results. I’ll be really impressed when a blood line build works in sPVP’s more “normalized” stats.

Anubis.7058:

Only proxy knowledge of it, but if my bro is correct, “Strawberry, blood sigil on each weapon + vamp runes are enough to outdo all life steal necro got”. Also probably the source of the builds sustain.

Pick any one of those and it out-does Necro siphoning.

Yes, Sigil of Blood alone provides more life stealing than full investment in the traits in any practical situation. Food is even moreso.

I would think Zealot’s gear would work much better, as outlined by the ‘Bad Build’ video WoodenPotatoes did. He discusses that siphoning scales with both power and healing power and at least with Zealot’s you are not sacrificing a ton of damage unlike Magi’s or Cleric’s.

xgalaxy.7402:

He discusses that siphoning scales with both power and healing power and at least with Zealot’s you are not sacrificing a ton of damage unlike Magi’s or Cleric’s.

Yeah, but it does so rather poorly. If you can trust the numbers on the wiki it scales ~0.2% with power and only ~0.004% with healing power.

Assuming you have about 1200 healing power (full ascended zealot´s set; 62060 build with bloodthirst) wells with vampiric ritual would heal you for about what? 1.5*(42+0.004*1200) = ~70 health per pulse?
Doesn´t look much better with Vampiric (~46 health) and Vampiric Precision (~53 health) either. Combined that is not even half as good as Healing Signet, which Warriors can take without having to fully commit to an otherwise almost useless trait line…

kitten. Please.

That´s not a sustain option, that´s humiliation X)

If I’m reading it correctly, the effect from this buff food is about five times stronger than the adept trait Vampiric Precision. (Without Bloodthirst, which it competes with for the major adept spot in Blood Magic.)

EremiteAngel.9765:

how does it fare

Mmmm. No.

xgalaxy.7402:

I would think Zealot’s gear would work much better, as outlined by the ‘Bad Build’ video WoodenPotatoes did. He discusses that siphoning scales with both power and healing power and at least with Zealot’s you are not sacrificing a ton of damage unlike Magi’s or Cleric’s.

Depends on how you play. I am guessing that this magi life stealer worked primarily because the targets where soft (ie zerker or similar types). Meaning that the vitality of the armor soaked up the damage and allowed for killing before dying. A Necro with lots of vitality is strong no matter how you look at it due to a strong heal skill and DS so that you can maintain it. Now add lots of regen on top of that – probably 80% from other sources than traits, lol – and you get a decent sustain build vs roamers.

Kerep in mind that the Necro doesnt exactly evade attacks well or reset fights. Have to go all in. With zealots you’d be much weaker vs damage based roamers without being able to exploit that large HP pool. And we all know how most roamers build their characters. There’s no armor option I know of that offer vitality+precision+something actually usefull.

Necros roam in Zealot’s quite well. I do it all the time. Just don’t use siphon traits (aside from maybe Bloodthirst).

WvW encounters should never be a measure of balance, because the playing field on average is uneven.

I always cringe when someone brings balance on the basis of WvW. Ohh, and Blood Magic is horrible. It truly is.

I sometime like to take the first 2 points into blood magic to do extra Life steal damage ON TOP OF my zerk damage, but I’ve never tried to see how it stands on its own

Ill test it tonight. I think I read healing doesnt effect lifesteal to much so ill be using full zerk.

waSte.8640:

Ill test it tonight. I think I read healing doesnt effect lifesteal to much so ill be using full zerk.

.4% scaling for Healing Power on siphon traits. Meaning that, for every 250 healing power, your siphons heal you 1 additional health.

100% not worth investing in healing power for. Siphoning skills on the other hand, can become rather strong with investing in healing power.

Ohhhhhh I understand what your saying.

now, i’m not trying to defend a well lifesteal build… just gonna run some numbers.

but how you heal on it is based on the wells siphoning per hit per the well trait, PLUS the wells siphoning per hit of damage to targets via the regular siphon on hit trait, PLUS siphoning health on crit, for a triple siphon. (this only works on wells that do damage on each pulse.)

now generally speaking, i would only ever suggest using this kind of build if you plan on AOEing a lot of trash mobs together all the time. (say 3-5 targets) while ALSO proccing the siphons off locust swarm at the same time as the well siphons (for a total of essentially 5 siphons per second per target while both the well and locust swarm are pulsing at the same time)

so it’s basically a general PvE (notice how i did NOT say dungeon) build.

as for actual numbers: with full zealot’s gear and a 2/2/0/6/4 build (for the HP and condi removal on kill, chill on blind, and reduce deathshroud cooldown, and deathshroud skills cooldown, plus all three siphon traits) (1016 healing power, 2309 power, and 47% crit chance)
~siphon on hit: 45damage 44 heal
~siphon on crit: 56 damage, 55 heal
~well siphon: 70 damage, 69 heal

per target. hit 5 targets, with 47% crit chance, it adds up. against landscape mobs, it can be worth it. (70*5+45*5+55*2.5)= over 500 HP per second. toss in locust swarm as well, another possible 500 HP (300 realistically)per second, plus dagger attack chain, another possible 200 HP (realistically 150 HP per second, 2 targets)… so against 5 dumb AI targets, you can “burst” heal over 1000 HP a second with one well, locust swarm, and dagger auto chain for a few seconds. that doesn’t count if you drop the second damage well on top of the first, but i’d think you’d rather chain the wells for a longer sustained siphon.

also, that means a possible extra 170 damage per hit per target in a well. and another potential 100 damage per hit on target with a dagger. sure, your crits will hit for 250% damage instead of 300% damage (that’s what +150% and +200% mean, 100% + 150%= 250%)

no of course… the real power of healing power in that build would be the heal on dagger 2: 460 HP per pulse is fantastic… 9 pulses = 4140 channelled heal. PLUS the 45 per hit and possible 55 per crit per pulse.

consume conditions heals for 6256 + 825 per condi removed.

signet of the locust heals for 1772 per target…

again, PvE against 5 dumb mobs.

1 human target in PvP? enjoy respawning all the time.

Well siphon only really work when the targets come to you (ie sPvP bunkering or PvE). Minion master siphoning is similar (although I must say I am guilty of somwhat liking that when roaming, lol).

The problem with all that maxed out siphoning theorycrafting is that the Necro has DS. As I said above, I have no doubt that the OPs build is “working” primarily because it has the vitality to back up all that healing and the precision to proc things. You dont need to go into DS that much, you want to regen outside it.

If you truly want a flexible dueler which have a chance at dealing with hard targets (such as roaming signet warriors) you need to build for something that regen alot faster than health and doesnt suffer the critical flaws of siphoning. Which would be life force. That the Necro incidently has tons of :p

In sPvP I have been running a power lifesteal MM build for a long time that usually dominates 1v1. I imagine this can be duplicated if not done better in WvW since u have better gear options. With the new changes tho there will be pros n cons and we haven’t seen new elite spec yet so time will tell how things change.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

now, i’m not trying to defend a well lifesteal build… just gonna run some numbers.

but how you heal on it is based on the wells siphoning per hit per the well trait, PLUS the wells siphoning per hit of damage to targets via the regular siphon on hit trait, PLUS siphoning health on crit, for a triple siphon. (this only works on wells that do damage on each pulse.)

now generally speaking, i would only ever suggest using this kind of build if you plan on AOEing a lot of trash mobs together all the time. (say 3-5 targets) while ALSO proccing the siphons off locust swarm at the same time as the well siphons (for a total of essentially 5 siphons per second per target while both the well and locust swarm are pulsing at the same time)

so it’s basically a general PvE (notice how i did NOT say dungeon) build.

as for actual numbers: with full zealot’s gear and a 2/2/0/6/4 build (for the HP and condi removal on kill, chill on blind, and reduce deathshroud cooldown, and deathshroud skills cooldown, plus all three siphon traits) (1016 healing power, 2309 power, and 47% crit chance)
~siphon on hit: 45damage 44 heal
~siphon on crit: 56 damage, 55 heal
~well siphon: 70 damage, 69 heal

per target. hit 5 targets, with 47% crit chance, it adds up. against landscape mobs, it can be worth it. (70*5+45*5+55*2.5)= over 500 HP per second. toss in locust swarm as well, another possible 500 HP (300 realistically)per second, plus dagger attack chain, another possible 200 HP (realistically 150 HP per second, 2 targets)… so against 5 dumb AI targets, you can “burst” heal over 1000 HP a second with one well, locust swarm, and dagger auto chain for a few seconds. that doesn’t count if you drop the second damage well on top of the first, but i’d think you’d rather chain the wells for a longer sustained siphon.

also, that means a possible extra 170 damage per hit per target in a well. and another potential 100 damage per hit on target with a dagger. sure, your crits will hit for 250% damage instead of 300% damage (that’s what +150% and +200% mean, 100% + 150%= 250%)

no of course… the real power of healing power in that build would be the heal on dagger 2: 460 HP per pulse is fantastic… 9 pulses = 4140 channelled heal. PLUS the 45 per hit and possible 55 per crit per pulse.

consume conditions heals for 6256 + 825 per condi removed.

signet of the locust heals for 1772 per target…

again, PvE against 5 dumb mobs.

1 human target in PvP? enjoy respawning all the time.

The “potential” that you’ve outlined here is probably why the traits never receive significant changes. Someone made a thread on “what if” balance in the sPvP forum, and it felt spot-on. It has also been mentioned a lot on this forum with respect to various Necro trait relationships.

The “optimal” scenario for traits often seems to cause stagnation in them getting fixed.

it would be interesting to see a change in lifesteal based on number of targets hit… IE, when only hitting a single target, earn double lifesteal… (on both the damage and healing component)

I have 2 well builds which both run siphons (one moreso than the other) and though they are pretty strong in duels they forfeit so much in mobility they are a bit of a hassle to play.

Still, I don’t think WvW can correctly decide how strong a mechanic is since, as stated above, WvW is not meant to be balanced at all.

Siphons still need buffing and the upcoming changes to the blood trait line is not so bad but will probably still need some more help.

Personally i use a siphon build.

I’d be the first to tell you how kitten it is. I like the idea and honestly i’m just practiseing with it but with an entire investment in blood magic my siphon on hit and crit traits combined are hardly even enough to be noticeable against one normal mob. They only ever shine if you can get three or more mobbs into a couple wells and get lucky with crits (you heard right. You need two utility slots and a butt load of luck with crits just to get a noticeable amount of healing out of the blood magic line.)

That being said it looks like they’re going to buff necro siphons in HoT so we shall see. In PvP poison counters them easily and in pve a large amount of the damage comes from spikey attacks anyway.
Warriors get more sustain in one skill than necros do in an entire trait line and they don’t even need to try for it. A siphon necro needs to hit you consistantly to get any amount of sustain healing going, a warrior just sits there like a kitten and heals. Even that can be countered with poison and a decent amount of dps tho.