Guild Wars 2

This question just poped out of my head.
How would you fix the problem in our ability to lockdown or chase opponents? Since its fails really hard, even with the implementation of Tainted shackles (imo its just a cover condition, no more) and soft CC (cripple, chill, immob) is often not enough or simply useless.
In theory, necro would be the guy who is starts the fight with you and either you or the necro dies, but cant escape. Oh well, maybe thieves could since they are all about mobility and high damage, but when they arent play some one shotting ninja spec, they should be catched and beaten to death.
So the base idea is this:

• unique mechanic only for the necro
• superior lockdown, no counter (to avoid the situation like with fear)
• maybe just single target

Please be contstructive.

Never Ending Darkness
Give dark path a 2nd function after teleporting to target: Use again to teleport back to the target immobilizing the target originaly hit by dark path.

Dark path ele > ele blinks away hit 2 again and appear on top of ele immobilizing.

1. change DS 2 to the scarecrow ability from lunatic inquisition, with a chill instead of a fear. Ie DS 2 to chill and plant the scarecrow, DS 2 again to teleport.

2 make DS 5 proc if they leave the range of the skill.

3. New weapon with a leap skill. The skillset of trident or spear would be fine. These are mostly power based weapons with weakness.

4. Spectral Walk is one of the worst skills in the game. Improve it with damage, conditions or a finisher and you improve mobility.

So both of you want to make a chain skill from DS2, making it similar to thieves Infiltrator strike (sword#2), but marking the enemy with it. Great! However the current form of Dark path is unreliable because of the projectile. Making it a ground targeted teleport would be cool and make the changes you mentioned, would it make it OP? Basicly it would be 2 teleport (no counter except CC) with an added chill.

@Nekretaal:
Your second idea looks good. How about that keeping the current animation (shadow tentacle thingy catches 5 target), which stays on for X seconds on the targets. While its active it pulses and apply 1 stack of torment and IF the target leaves the 600 range its immobilized. While in an 1v1 situation it wouldnt be bad, against more players and without an ICD it could be powerfull. Imagine, running into the crowd, pop this and run back (or port with SWalk), the enemy got perma immobilized basicly until it wears of. Maybe an added max range would solve this which is greater than 1200, so classes with high mobility wont catch you 1 second later.

Since its a core problem with the class i wouldnt solve the problem with new weapons, but a few leap wouldnt hurt us later.

SWalk is fine, just harder to use than some “press button and escape from a 10v1 situation without any harm” skill that a few class has.

Go on, release the necro imagination!

Something like Thresh’s hook from Leaugue of Legends to replace Dark Path. Reach out and drag your target towards you. And/or make Spectral Grasp actually work.

If we take inspiration from other games, i would love to see something similar to Hades ulti from Smite. Its an aoe pulsating pull with damage and can reduce enemy protection too.

Spectral grasp built in DS aww, i wish it isnt a utility skill. The most fun thing in WvW is pulling down people from walls to the meatgrinder. If it dont bugs out.

When I make suggestions on how to improve the Necro I try to keep in mind what is realistic and what is not. A-Net obviously doesn’t have the time or resources to create intricate new abilities, at least I don’t think they do since it takes forever for little changes to happen.

I agree that since our mobility is pathetic that we should be able to keep people from running away.

I think a perfect place to start would be Spectral Grasp. This skill is currently very unreliable because of terrain glitches, but it has the right idea because it pulls foes to you and chills them. I think that they should really try to make this skill more reliable so that it works at least 90% of the time, change it from a projectile to an instant attack like scepter auto, or hell even give it a ground target and let it pull multiple foes.

The biggest issue Necro’s have keeping targets in combat is that many mobility skills like Warrior Greatsword and thief roll skills remove roots, chills, and cripples. So I feel that if Necro is truly meant to keep targets in combat that they need to root them with a non-condition type of debuff.

Stx.4857:

The biggest issue Necro’s have keeping targets in combat is that many mobility skills like Warrior Greatsword and thief roll skills remove roots, chills, and cripples. So I feel that if Necro is truly meant to keep targets in combat that they need to root them with a non-condition type of debuff.

Thats why i made this topic. Im glad you understand it and agree with it.

The aoe pull actually exist already, one of the risen mobs use it, cant remember which.
Reworking DS5 as i described shouldnt be that hard too, but thats true that even small changes takes weeks or months to go live.

About spectral grasp. While it need a rework (what not actually?) i still want to see something built in to DS. As you wrote too, locking down enemies would be one of our core feature so making this with only 1 utility wouldnt make sense or it would be mandatory. And that happened a few months ago with Signet of Undeath and Corrupt boon, which got nerfed too.

I don’t think spectral grasp is the worst skill in the game, it just need to be faster and be more permissive ny not letting a small rock block the way. Because frankly if you try spectral grasp on an ele who try to get away…. it won’t work…. at all, the attack are too sloooooow.

Add a non-condition debuff (let’s call it “Dead Weight”) that prevents targets from using leap/teleport/spin-off-into-the-sunset skills for the duration. Put it at the end of DS5, or perhaps some other appropriate location (though that is I think the best place for it).

Dark Path getting a projectile speed/cast time buff and a range increase would go a long way. Spectral Grasp needs to be seriously worked at so it works most of the time.

Having another utility or weapon skill that reduces the ability of foes to get away would be welcome. Stuns, pulls, or move-to-target are needed to prevent people from running away.

But I would love to see a unique debuff that disables teleports and shadowsteps on the target.

Before fully redesigning skills, I would change Dark Pact to a skill that stacks Immob the further the enemy; like a reverse “Fear Me.”

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But I would love to see a unique debuff that disables teleports and shadowsteps on the target.

I could definitely see something like this. Rather than a full on daze/stun it could simply suppress all movement skills/effects. Be it teleports, leaps, swiftness, etc. In fact, call it “Suppression” it could be the necro equivilant to stuns. It could have a slightly higher duration than a stun or daze would since you’re still able to move, heal, attack, etc. It might could be worked into Death Shroud, Focus, or MH dagger?

Draehl.2681:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But I would love to see a unique debuff that disables teleports and shadowsteps on the target.

I could definitely see something like this. Rather than a full on daze/stun it could simply suppress all movement skills/effects. Be it teleports, leaps, swiftness, etc. In fact, call it “Suppression” it could be the necro equivilant to stuns. It could have a slightly higher duration than a stun or daze would since you’re still able to move, heal, attack, etc. It might could be worked into Death Shroud, Focus, or MH dagger?

I don’t think they’ll do this because beyond profession mechanics, they don’t seem fond of giving any specific profession a mechanic that no one other profession has an equivalent of.

If anything, they need to get Spectral Grasp and Dark Path to work well before looking at anything else.
Frankly, if we’re looking for mass pulling, they should just either modify Tainted Shackles into a Binding Blade equivalent (immob + torment = nonbo), or they should make Spectral Grasp a mass pull.

But the problem with that is the same as now. Soft CC with conditions not so effective and people just flying around with teleports or passive condi removal / immunity makes this even worse.

I don’t disagree, but asking the devs for things they’re not likely to do isn’t going to get us anywhere either.I have serious doubts we’ll be seeing a new condition, much less a new status effect (daze/distortion/etc) any time soon, and especially not one that griefs skills (despite it being necessary).
I think that if Dark Path was changed to “Judge’s Intervention”, and Tainted Shackles to “Binding Blade”, we’d already be significantly further ahead. After that, maybe we could re-evaluate, but at least those two are attainable given they already exist.

Only after typing this did I realize that Guardians are essentially better at lockdown than we are, but they also have better mobility…

Balefire.7592:

Only after typing this did I realize that Guardians are essentially better at lockdown than we are, but they also have better mobility…

Dont forget about hammer and Line of warding.

New spectral grasp: send a fast projectile to the enemy, creating a dark bond. In next 2 seconds press the skill again to pull the target to you, otherwise you are teleported to the target. Chill your enemy if the bond wasn’t broke. The bond is broken if the target moves more than 1200 units away from you.

vicious.5683:

projectile

Nonononono, big no. Even if its fast, just no.

Dark Path should be changed to “Judge’s Intervention”, and Tainted Shackles to “Binding Blade”.

Reposting because it really needs to be said again.

Balefire.7592:

Draehl.2681:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But I would love to see a unique debuff that disables teleports and shadowsteps on the target.

I could definitely see something like this. Rather than a full on daze/stun it could simply suppress all movement skills/effects. Be it teleports, leaps, swiftness, etc. In fact, call it “Suppression” it could be the necro equivilant to stuns. It could have a slightly higher duration than a stun or daze would since you’re still able to move, heal, attack, etc. It might could be worked into Death Shroud, Focus, or MH dagger?

I don’t think they’ll do this because beyond profession mechanics, they don’t seem fond of giving any specific profession a mechanic that no one other profession has an equivalent of.

If anything, they need to get Spectral Grasp and Dark Path to work well before looking at anything else.
Frankly, if we’re looking for mass pulling, they should just either modify Tainted Shackles into a Binding Blade equivalent (immob + torment = nonbo), or they should make Spectral Grasp a mass pull.

I still think Dark Path would work better as a Mark/teleport similar in appearance to what Risen nobles use. Drop a mark on who you want to teleport to, it triggers, bam! you are there, and the person who set it off and anyone nearby is chilled+bleeding.

No stupid projectile+terrain hijinks; it can still technically be dodged, and now a whole slew of traits potentially apply to it.

Using it to teleport to the rear of the zerg bearing down on you would also help immensely, and could maybe see some application as a “trap” that summons the Necro.

Balefire.7592:

I don’t disagree, but asking the devs for things they’re not likely to do isn’t going to get us anywhere either.I have serious doubts we’ll be seeing a new condition, much less a new status effect (daze/distortion/etc) any time soon, and especially not one that griefs skills (despite it being necessary).
I think that if Dark Path was changed to “Judge’s Intervention”, and Tainted Shackles to “Binding Blade”, we’d already be significantly further ahead. After that, maybe we could re-evaluate, but at least those two are attainable given they already exist.

Only after typing this did I realize that Guardians are essentially better at lockdown than we are, but they also have better mobility…

This would be a great improvement to Tainted Shackles specifically and our purported anti-mobility design philosophy in general.

What I envision is Tainted Shackles working exactly as it does now; no changes what-so-ever to current functionality. Then, give the skill a 2nd activation ability. On activating it a second time, it pulls the affected opponents to the necromancer.

If it’s felt that something is needed to balance this new secondary effect, make it so the 2nd activation removes the Tainted Shackles from the opponents such that they won’t be immobilized. Now the necro has to make a choice:

1) Let Tainted Shackles first activation run its full course in the hopes of causing AoE immobility (and serve as a cover condition with the Torment).

OR

2) Activate Tainted Shackles a second time to interrupt and pull opponents towards the necro at the expense of removing the Tainted Shackles effect from enemies (meaning they won’t suffer immobilization). It’s then open to discussion if the 2nd activation also removes the Torment condition.

here is an idea.
maybe give necromancer stealth?
I mean why not? all other professions have a good battle reset (with the out of combat regen to go with it) try getting out of combat as a necro ^^

So yeah screw it:
Walk in the shadows:
Upon activation you gain stealth for the duration of your remaining death shroud.
Ds drains 10% per second.

Asking for things they will not do isn’t really productive.
Necros are meant to be the counterparts to the Guardian – conditions vs boons, damage vs support, but both still squarely attrition, since neither can run away once in a fight. Issue is, boons > conditions, and we lack the damage to outdo a Guardian’s support. They are also much, much better at attrition.
Hence, I think the best mechanic/skill ports for Necros come from Guardians, since they actually perform rather well in attrition based fights.

stop dreaming. Anet always assume and think that all conditions you apply will be duplicated with few others epidemic from other necros, and they think that all necros, both zerk and condi, must equip epidemic with them.

but they nvr think of, all other professions have their own condition remove skills, and there are lots more eles, guard, Mesmer blablabla that have aoe condi removal skills with them…and they are more played professions than necro…

sigh….. so back to the topic above, yea give necro a irremovable and unique conditions that contains lock down, aoe, but cant be spread by epidemic.

The boons>conditions situation reminded me for an older idea.
Since we have really good chill uptime even if we dont trait for it, what if we get a new trait for it? While your enemy is chilled reduce its attack speed, like a reverse quickness.
If that trait in a good but not unreachable place it will do the following:
1. As a condi spec, it will force your enemy to cleanse, so you can unload your stuff after that. Just a side note, condi burst should be only A option, not THE option.
2. As a power / whatever spec it will lock down your enemy and help to avoid your face slapped to death. Maybe this will be noticable only in PvE.

Maybe gives this condition a duration and ICD to the trait so it prevents to overwhelm your opponent with this unremovable condition even if he / she cleansed chill already.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

here is an idea.
maybe give necromancer stealth?
I mean why not? all other professions have a good battle reset (with the out of combat regen to go with it) try getting out of combat as a necro ^^

So yeah screw it:
Walk in the shadows:
Upon activation you gain stealth for the duration of your remaining death shroud.
Ds drains 10% per second.

Not a bad idea actually. Or maybe Well of Darkness can provide group stealth. That would add a little bit of support that the necro is missing.

Dalanor.5387:

The boons>conditions situation reminded me for an older idea.
Since we have really good chill uptime even if we dont trait for it, what if we get a new trait for it? While your enemy is chilled reduce its attack speed, like a reverse quickness.
If that trait in a good but not unreachable place it will do the following:
1. As a condi spec, it will force your enemy to cleanse, so you can unload your stuff after that. Just a side note, condi burst should be only A option, not THE option.
2. As a power / whatever spec it will lock down your enemy and help to avoid your face slapped to death. Maybe this will be noticable only in PvE.

Maybe gives this condition a duration and ICD to the trait so it prevents to overwhelm your opponent with this unremovable condition even if he / she cleansed chill already.

Chill in itself is already an extremly powerfull tool.
This trait would make us immortal to just about anything that uses weaponskills… aka everything.

On topic, i might be one of the very few, but i have never had to much issues in lockdowns/chasing people.
Being power specced Axe/focus-Dagger/warhorn i have all the tools available to shut or slow someone down without to much of a hassle.
Well exept thief (wich i dont mind that much considering if they could not run they would be a free kill) and Gs warriors ( their mobility is just insane for a heavy class)