Guild Wars 2

I think from what the guards were given, its quite obvious what the necros will get.

guards lacked range, condi build and mobility
guards given LB (range), condi build (traps), some extra mobility

necros lack support, mobility, and shroud mechanic enhancement
necros will be given shouts (support), greatsword (mobility) and some new way to use lifeforce/deathshroud

and ranger druids will get staff marks to compete with necros
and mesmers given wells to compete with necros for a spot in WvW

in short we are getting partitioned off bit by bit to other classes so much so that other classes can all perform a part of what we do and we lose our identity

So in other words.

“we’re going to use the specialisation available only through our expansion to band aid an issue that’s been complained about endlessly since the game’s launch instead of deal with the core issues of the base class”

That was my first though tbh when i saw guard. " Wow if they did that to guard I am terrified when thinking about what necro is getting." Idk if this was all the result of guardians demands backfiring on them, a minority of the playerbase influencing devs, or just the devs obsession in being creative.

I don’t see the expansion giving Guardians extra mobility.

But they got the range and condis that they always wanted. That projectile refecting projectile will make Dragonhunters the kings of pirate ship battles.

The chronomancer didn’t fix the mesmer’s lack of boon generation either.

The Guardian elite spec. got a leap.. how is that not extra mobility?

I’m confused as to why people say Guardian has no mobility. They have a leap on their GS, a teleport on their sword, a 1,200 range teleport meditation, and a good amount of swiftness if they need it. If that’s lacking mobility then what is necro? lmao

Sabre.8627:

I’m confused as to why people say Guardian has no mobility. They have a leap on their GS, a teleport on their sword, a 1,200 range teleport meditation, and a good amount of swiftness if they need it. If that’s lacking mobility then what is necro? lmao

Necro has NO Mobility, that’s all XD
The problem in Guardian mobility is not how well you can go into a fight but how well you can go Out of a battle. Teleports like sword and meditation needs a enemy target to be activated. That’s not easy to find out of the enemy group and if you need to flee you want to be shure to not go into the mouth of another enemy.

Anyway the new F2 virtue will grant a low range jump, I think like 300 range, no more. Like in the video.

Then, I hope ANet will fix our problems also out of the Specialization, because yes, we can’t be forced to use it to be good and a single trait can’t fix all our problems.

Can’t wait for Banshee ^^

Holl.3109:

Can’t wait for Banshee ^^

I doubt it , it is possible that they go the specialisation alfabethically. In that case no banshee, but also no deadknight.

Whenever I distance myself from the game for a bit, then come back, I marvel at how everyone always thinks their class should be able to do the thing that represents a weakness.

If you want to be able to escape any situation and not die in a fight because for some reason you can’t stomach dying, play a Thief or Warrior. Don’t play a class designed to have lower mobility and yell “But I should have mobility too!”. No, you shouldn’t. And Necros can escape off of cliffs or pull fun Spectral Walk/Flesh Wurm jukes as well, if you utility for it. “But I want other utilities! Class X gets mobility with weapon Y, and Necros don’t have mobility on their weapons!”. Then play Class X, and stop being a nuisance.

Necros don’t have as much mobility, but I don’t think that’s their problem. It’s just one of their weaknesses.

At the end of the day, if they homogenize all of the classes to be able to do everything, everyone will complain about how their class “doesn’t bring anything unique to the table anymore”. Take some stuff away to make a class unique, and they say “but I want to be able to do what class X does”.

Arenanet is methodically copying one profession’s capability to another as a specialization.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Whenever I distance myself from the game for a bit, then come back, I marvel at how everyone always thinks their class should be able to do the thing that represents a weakness.

If you want to be able to escape any situation and not die in a fight because for some reason you can’t stomach dying, play a Thief or Warrior. Don’t play a class designed to have lower mobility and yell “But I should have mobility too!”. No, you shouldn’t. And Necros can escape off of cliffs or pull fun Spectral Walk/Flesh Wurm jukes as well, if you utility for it. “But I want other utilities! Class X gets mobility with weapon Y, and Necros don’t have mobility on their weapons!”. Then play Class X, and stop being a nuisance.

Necros don’t have as much mobility, but I don’t think that’s their problem. It’s just one of their weaknesses.

At the end of the day, if they homogenize all of the classes to be able to do everything, everyone will complain about how their class “doesn’t bring anything unique to the table anymore”. Take some stuff away to make a class unique, and they say “but I want to be able to do what class X does”.

the solution to the sheer number of deficiencies in Necromancer should absolutely not be “well, go play another class”.

When every other class can do everything necro does better, it’s an issue with necro that needs to be fixed, not an issue that can be fixed by playing a new class.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think from what the guards were given, its quite obvious what the necros will get.

guards lacked range, condi build and mobility
guards given LB (range), condi build (traps), some extra mobility

necros lack support, mobility, and shroud mechanic enhancement
necros will be given shouts (support), greatsword (mobility) and some new way to use lifeforce/deathshroud

and ranger druids will get staff marks to compete with necros
and mesmers given wells to compete with necros for a spot in WvW

in short we are getting partitioned off bit by bit to other classes so much so that other classes can all perform a part of what we do and we lose our identity

Um too early too be speculating that much look at mesmer excellent party support, what did they get? Even better party support. They were asking for a mainhand weapon since they only have 2 but they got another offhand bringing them up to 4 offhands.
As for guardians we dont know if the traps will have damaging conditions what we know is that there is a trait that adds bleeds to trap triggers.
And I highly doubt rangers will get marks since they are too similar to traps that they already have access to.

nekretaal.6485:

I don’t see the expansion giving Guardians extra mobility.

But they got the range and condis that they always wanted. That projectile refecting projectile will make Dragonhunters the kings of pirate ship battles.

The chronomancer didn’t fix the mesmer’s lack of boon generation either.

But the new traits make the mesmer king of boon sharing with illusionary inspiration with an altrusim set a mesmer can replace a phalanx warrior or a fireblasting ele providing fury might quickness and alacrity.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Whenever I distance myself from the game for a bit, then come back, I marvel at how everyone always thinks their class should be able to do the thing that represents a weakness.

If you want to be able to escape any situation and not die in a fight because for some reason you can’t stomach dying, play a Thief or Warrior. Don’t play a class designed to have lower mobility and yell “But I should have mobility too!”. No, you shouldn’t. And Necros can escape off of cliffs or pull fun Spectral Walk/Flesh Wurm jukes as well, if you utility for it. “But I want other utilities! Class X gets mobility with weapon Y, and Necros don’t have mobility on their weapons!”. Then play Class X, and stop being a nuisance.

Necros don’t have as much mobility, but I don’t think that’s their problem. It’s just one of their weaknesses.

At the end of the day, if they homogenize all of the classes to be able to do everything, everyone will complain about how their class “doesn’t bring anything unique to the table anymore”. Take some stuff away to make a class unique, and they say “but I want to be able to do what class X does”.

I also marvel how some people say that instead of not making a class weak they argue to play a whole other class instead. Really solves the issue of a broken, backwards class, huh?

A class should not be “defined” by weaknesses. They should be defined by theme and play style. Just because we are supposed to play as an attrition class, and I say ‘supposed to’ because there are classes that do it better, doesn’t mean we can have no access to mobility, CC, scaling defensive skills, etc. Nor do those things take away from our identity. How in the hell is getting a blink or mobility skill taking away from our class identity and homogenizing it?

rapthorne.7345:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Whenever I distance myself from the game for a bit, then come back, I marvel at how everyone always thinks their class should be able to do the thing that represents a weakness.

If you want to be able to escape any situation and not die in a fight because for some reason you can’t stomach dying, play a Thief or Warrior. Don’t play a class designed to have lower mobility and yell “But I should have mobility too!”. No, you shouldn’t. And Necros can escape off of cliffs or pull fun Spectral Walk/Flesh Wurm jukes as well, if you utility for it. “But I want other utilities! Class X gets mobility with weapon Y, and Necros don’t have mobility on their weapons!”. Then play Class X, and stop being a nuisance.

Necros don’t have as much mobility, but I don’t think that’s their problem. It’s just one of their weaknesses.

At the end of the day, if they homogenize all of the classes to be able to do everything, everyone will complain about how their class “doesn’t bring anything unique to the table anymore”. Take some stuff away to make a class unique, and they say “but I want to be able to do what class X does”.

the solution to the sheer number of deficiencies in Necromancer should absolutely not be “well, go play another class”.

When every other class can do everything necro does better, it’s an issue with necro that needs to be fixed, not an issue that can be fixed by playing a new class.

I don’t disagree that certain issues need to be fixed with Necro. But saying every other class can do everything Necro does better? That’s a gross exaggeration that embodies the style of attitude that won’t ever try to take the class to new heights, preferring to be mired in what a class can’t do instead of what it can.

And I was just talking about one specific thing: Mobility. That’s a weakness. If you consciously play a class that has a weakness that bugs you, what are you doing with your time? If there are other qualities of the class you enjoy, then don’t sit there and stare at the lack of mobility. Enjoy the things you enjoy. And if you don’t enjoy those things, go do something you do enjoy. I wasn’t enjoying Warrior around the time Berserker Stance was buffed. I switched to Necro, and found something I enjoyed much more. I stuck with it for months, and realized there were only a couple meta builds across a couple classes that, when played really well, gave me trouble. I annihilated everyone else.

The Necro class has all sorts of conflicting traits/mechanics within its design that I think are lightyears more important than a lack of weapon/reactive mobility. SWalk and Flesh Wurm are proactive mobility, but people don’t like that either, because they want the lock the whole world up in their pocket.

The new elite specs gave classes access to things they were never supposes to have or lacked due yo their designdesign not as a class problem. Classes were supposed to have things they aren’t supposed to do so people would play a variety of things and could cover each others weaknesses.

Guardians lacked a ranged weapon and ways to apply conditions. Look what they got? A ranged weapon and traits/ skills that apply conditions outside of burning. Not only that but they retained the core supportiveness of the class while gaining new play options.

Mesmers. They lacked ways to put out aoe pressure and they got wells. Not only that but the wells are also supportive granting boons and CD reduction. New play option while retaining a core design of the class.

Us? What do we lack? Mobility and team support and decent cleave. This is why people say we will get shouts and GS and the new DS mechanic will have mobility and support on them, no doubt they will also be coupled with boon/condition control and debilitating effects and a 5 target limit for skills and the autos. We get a new play option while retaining core class functionality.

Also druids will get glyphs. Calling it now.

Hey look, condi guard is already set to outshine Necromancer, surprise!

Listening to them, you can tell Guardian is their baby. These guys know the Guardian class inside out, and Guardians have been and probably always will be the most important class in this game. Ridiculous.

I doubt Necros wil get huge mobility. We might get SOME.. but Necro isn’t supposed to be mobile. The only thing is… if they start thinking of the new specialization as “not Necro”.. it wouldn’t have those limitations associated with it it… so who knows what we’ll get. I think max one leap or guardian-like teleport (requiring a target). Maybe a ground targeted AoE damage leap skill like revenants. Either way, I think mobility shouldn’t be the focus. I dunno what they can do tbh cuz if they made sPvP Necros like WvW Necros…. somehow… all QQ would stop xD cuz I honestly have no issues with Necro in WvW.

As for support, I think Necros can support with hard/soft CC and tanking but can’t really support like a shout guard or warr. If we do get shouts, this playstyle might become available which I’m excited about but I can’t fathom playing without Wurm or SWalk. I don’t think Necros will become homogenized at all… and I disagree that every class can do what Necro can do, but better.

And well said Cogbyrn

I just looked at it, and the spec is kittenING powerful. Like, SERIOUSLY powerful, currently hitting with up to 4.5k burns and 2.5k bleeds, aswell as instant 25 vulnerability stacking via trap.

I can say with great certainty that you guys are the ones who are getting the defiance bar. It only makes sense. On classes with two hand weapons, the profession skills will be replaced. Instead of giving you 5 new skills, death shroud could grant a defiance bar. Or perhaps it won’t act as a secondary HP bar. Maybe throw in some immunity in death shroud to make up for years of abuse. Us Mesmers got spoiled rotten with Chronomancer, but that’s because we only got an offhand.

I’m optimistic for the necro specialization. You guys can only go up from here.

Shiki.7148:

I just looked at it, and the spec is kittenING powerful. Like, SERIOUSLY powerful, currently hitting with up to 4.5k burns and 2.5k bleeds, aswell as instant 25 vulnerability stacking via trap.

Where did you see it? I want to seeeeee.

EDIT – Just saw the thing about the Ready Up. I’m guessing that’s where.

And please, please, please, please try to avoid making any judgment calls on balance based on marketing material.

Plus, if they drop that much burning/bleeding on me, I’ll force-feed it right back.

Stormbolt.7293:

I can say with great certainty that you guys are the ones who are getting the defiance bar. It only makes sense. On classes with two hand weapons, the profession skills will be replaced. Instead of giving you 5 new skills, death shroud could grant a defiance bar. Or perhaps it won’t act as a secondary HP bar. Maybe throw in some immunity in death shroud to make up for years of abuse. Us Mesmers got spoiled rotten with Chronomancer, but that’s because we only got an offhand.

I’m optimistic for the necro specialization. You guys can only go up from here.

We know we are the only left suited for that bar because “we want to be hit”…how else can we wield a melee GS. The issue is it’s a loss-loss it will either be so good we have take it or same as base and we suck it up. Changes to base necro are much more needed.

That one trap completely outshining Well of Suffering by a mile is pretty hilarious. WoS was already outdone by glyph of storms which had alternative choices. We already had weak utilities so it seems like the elite spec is going to be mandatory. Assuming they actually give skills on the same tier as they have done for dragonhunter and chrono so far.

spoj.9672:

That one trap completely outshining Well of Suffering by a mile is pretty hilarious. WoS was already outdone by glyph of storms which had alternative choices. We already had weak utilities so it seems like the elite spec is going to be mandatory. Assuming they actually give skills on the same tier as they have done for dragonhunter and chrono so far.

Ever since I saw the trait lines I’ve expected the elite spec to be mandatory. Blood still bad, death magic not great, curses gutted for power builds. So that new trait tree is the only logical place to invest.

Not to mention that necro design is easily one of the oldest in the game, so getting a new.2 hander with updated technology will likely make it far superior to anything we currently have.

Here’s to hoping that th email elite spec brings death shroud updates and new skills. I also really wanthe shouts or orders. Instant AOE skills with some possibility for support could be awesome.

Im hoping the elite spec will completelly change DS like it did with virtues so all those DS traits lying around wont be useless.

I have the worst feeling in the pit of my stomach for what will become of the Necromancer upon the big unveiling… I’ve been giving my Warrior more love recently because it might just become my main if we get beaten any harder.

I badly want soul reaping and lifesteal to be a thing… with greatsword… like some kind of epic anime fight scene with a greatsword ripping the life out of someone.

So pick soul reaping and blood magic with the gs spec? :P

One thing I noticed is the change to virtues outside of elite spec. I didn’t see any guardians asking for the change and they got one. Same for mesmers and Engineers, both got and extra F5 skill.

Now most of the people here asking a some way to change the deathshroud mechanics, and if it’s still the same F1 I’ll be sad. Just hope we can get F2-F5 as an extra skill besides having F1 as our deathshroud.

There is no change outside the elite spec. The elite spec adds the f5 on the mesmer. And changes the virtues on the guard. The base classes will have the same class mechanics they have now. The engi f5 is just new because they were reworking the base class.

From what I read, it looks like the change is permanent. I thought they don’t have to use the elite spec to get the new F1-F5 skills.

Yes the F5 is perm for Mesmer. During the DH traits, he said the Adept Minor changes the Virtues for the DH. Mesmer didn’t have this. Also, Mesmer only got two new skills from the OH shield, so the new F5 adds a bit more to the profession. It seems like professions getting two-handers are getting new (different) mechanics, while those with one-handers are getting additional mechanics added to what they have. If this holds true, it could be good for both Necro and Ranger.

Tman.6349:

Yes the F5 is perm for Mesmer. During the DH traits, he said the Adept Minor changes the Virtues for the DH. Mesmer didn’t have this. Also, Mesmer only got two new skills from the OH shield, so the new F5 adds a bit more to the profession. It seems like professions getting two-handers are getting new (different) mechanics, while those with one-handers are getting additional mechanics added to what they have. If this holds true, it could be good for both Necro and Ranger.

Wrong. Only the Chronomancer will have an F5 on Mesmer.

We have not seen anything showing the Chronomancer traits.

The changes to the profession mechanics are being tied into the minor traits, and will only be there when spec’d into that line, just like the weapon skills/utilities.

I would prefer that the guard profession mechanic change was a toggle f4 (that would switch between current virtues and the new ones) skill instead of a forced minor trait, because taking the elite spec pretty much nerfs the guard’s support capabilities by reducing ther radius of all boons that virtues can apply. Compared to the mesmers who dont lose any of their shatters or traits that affect their shatters, the guard mechanic keeps certain builds from taking the elite spec.

spoj.9672:

That one trap completely outshining Well of Suffering by a mile is pretty hilarious. WoS was already outdone by glyph of storms which had alternative choices. We already had weak utilities so it seems like the elite spec is going to be mandatory. Assuming they actually give skills on the same tier as they have done for dragonhunter and chrono so far.

i know we have been forgotten and demoralized but i refuse for let our Elite Spec to be the holy graile for us as the base specs will still be our handicap. Guards are ALREADY good, their Elite Spec just adds to their build sets.

i truly hope that when the devs look at Necros again the look at tbe profession as a whole relative to others, but i fear the work for Necro takes more work than they think it does and will just end up band-aiding us

Anchoku.8142:

Arenanet is methodically copying one profession’s capability to another as a specialization.

Yeah this seems like less of the specialisations they described and more of Gw1’s dual class system.

i take everything back. our spec better have some sweet stuff. but knowing anet, how they treat this class the live stream for its ready up will be underwhelming and the mechanics will be terrible. oh but i fully expect DH to get nerfed before its released. There is no way some of those skills will be released in their current states.

only one thing i took from this is that burn will do a decent amount of damage so dhuumfire will tick for a nice amount. so thats something for condi necros.

Sigmoid.7082:

i take everything back. our spec better have some sweet stuff. but knowing anet, how they treat this class the live stream for its ready up will be underwhelming and the mechanics will be terrible. oh but i fully expect DH to get nerfed before its released. There is no way some of those skills will be released in their current states.

only one thing i took from this is that burn will do a decent amount of damage so dhuumfire will tick for a nice amount. so thats something for condi necros.

What lol burnings damage got nerfed, the dragonhunter was doing so much burn dmg because he is able to get a lot of stacks up which dhuum won’t do, from what we can tell it will most likely do less damage than sceptre autoattack.

With Dhuumfire we well be able to stack 3 Burn (4 with bonn duration), no more, because our attack rate in DS is very slow.
The guardian can inflict much more stack of burn. Then with the specializzation the guardian obtain to deal Bleed. Not a high amount, but a good amount. That will make the guardian a better Burn damage dealer than all the other classes.
But we can still inflict bleed and poison, with a lot of burn.

And why the DH need to be nerfed? It’s like the ranger, but with less condition and direct damage, no hide and no knock back. And with lesser conditions. I don’t see the problem.

wanna know what kittens me off? there is a dev on the guard forums asking them for suggestions for changes to virtues or tomes or something like that… Eventhough guards are in a good state. We’re arguably the worst off and well, no one gives half a kitten to ask us what we think. Seems like we’re being left to die off in silence lol.

MAN.9046:

wanna know what kittens me off? there is a dev on the guard forums asking them for suggestions for changes to virtues or tomes or something like that… Eventhough guards are in a good state. We’re arguably the worst off and well, no one gives half a kitten to ask us what we think. Seems like we’re being left to die off in silence lol.

well, Guardian is anet’s favourite. i thought thats obvious

The bitter jealousy is getting real in this thread.

Cogbyrn.7283:

The bitter jealousy is getting real in this thread.

it’s less jealousy and more just sheer disbelief that the game’s lead designer is looking for ways to change up one of the game’s strongest, healthiest classes while Necromancer has not had a red post in it since pretty much before I started playing, as far as I have seen

Cogbyrn.7283:

The bitter jealousy is getting real in this thread.

Jealous of one of the best classes that has consistently been at the top of every game mode since release? Of course.

Have no fear! whatever the Necromancer would get will never fix its core issues and will still be out-shined by all classes.

what the class needs is a redesign and a single weapon and an elite specialization wont cover that much

Most of the Guardian changes (Dragon Hunter) seem incredibly OP, and I thought the Chronomancer seemed strong last week. I can’t believe they give the best class in all game modes for years such a strong elite spec, it is really ridiculous IMO.

Guardian was the first class I tried leveling. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m not jealous in the slightest of anything they have, because I appreciate the tools I have as a Necromancer more.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think Necro could use some changes that don’t make its own traits/mechanics conflict. But maybe, just maybe, a class that is in the meta still has design issues.

EDIT – I just watched the video for the Guardian Elite spec, and it didn’t look nearly as crazy to me as people seem to be leading on. For example, I thought the 25 stacks of Vuln was substantial. But it isn’t. It lasts 1 second per pulse on a trap you can run out of. Like a well.

In fact it looked like a well-burst style of play with its synergy. After you blow all of the traps to do max damage, if it doesn’t work, what do you do? You probably die.

I was expecting to be super impressed by the new stuff, and I really wasn’t all that much.