look at what the guardians got

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

I’ll say it. I’m just straight up pis_ed off.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bellamy.9860

Bellamy.9860

Why are so whiny about big changes? From the 2 shown elite speccs it seems like ANet fixes classes by giving them what the community always wanted.
Also the necro community, once again, raised their voices and got a thread supervised by Gates (thanks mate!) and an article on TTT.

So there is hope for necro. Even after that uninspired trait rework…
And even if this hope will get shattered after they announce the changes to the class, like so many times before, atleast we get the revenant as an alternative to our favourite dark caster. And if this day comes then my green bloberino might finally rest in piece, but for now there is hope.

Also guard changes look like every guards wet dream. Even if you don’t touch longbow and traps that traitline offers so much raw dmg modifiers and additional utility through virtues.

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

An elite spec wont fix the classes core problems. So the hope is more of a “oh we can be slightly better but still leagues behind the rest”. Thats not a desirable position to be in. And we certainly shouldnt be happy or content about that.

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

An elite spec wont fix the classes core problems. So the hope is more of a “oh we can be slightly better but still leagues behind the rest”. Thats not a desirable position to be in. And we certainly shouldnt be happy or content about that.

You don’t know that for sure. It looks like HoT can bring a lot of new technology to combat; things we haven’t seen before. They could easily add in F2-4 skills that provide some mobility and maybe an evade, add in shouts for instant casts and group support, and a GS could add a lot as well. Especially if the new trait line is strong.

I doubt it fixes everything, but you don’t need to really fix everything for the class to be good, you just need to patch the weaknesses and give us more strengths. It’s not as big of a task as it seems.

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

Depending on how the Necro Elite Spec changes the class mechanic, I feel it could very well fix a lot of the class’s problems in one fell swoop.

And if it does, everyone will just complain about how the Elite Spec is mandatory. Because complaining.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

And if it does, everyone will just complain about how the Elite Spec is mandatory.
Because complaining poor design.

Players will have every right to complain for two reasons:

  1. Revenant gameplay in all specialzations being both better designed and stronger
  2. Having to buy HoT to stay effective.

In the end, what absolutely needs to happen is every specialization needs to be viable (=playable, desirable, balanced) in a significant portion of the game, regardless of whether you play as vanilla necro or HoT chronomancer. Otherwise we will continue to have 3-spec metas, that rend anything else useless and forgotten tratlines like Blood Magic, using which is considered trolling or being a total noob.

Leman

(edited by leman.7682)

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

Lol they’ve said so many times already specialisations aren’t supposed to be upgrades and it seems they’ve already revealed all major changes to the base class.

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

I think from what the guards were given, its quite obvious what the necros will get.

guards lacked range, condi build and mobility
guards given LB (range), condi build (traps), some extra mobility

necros lack support, mobility, and shroud mechanic enhancement
necros will be given shouts (support), greatsword (mobility) and some new way to use lifeforce/deathshroud

and ranger druids will get staff marks to compete with necros
and mesmers given wells to compete with necros for a spot in WvW

in short we are getting partitioned off bit by bit to other classes so much so that other classes can all perform a part of what we do and we lose our identity

So Necromancer will get absolutely everything in specialization if it’s meant to fill up the leaks in profession.
Sounds overpowered. I like their way.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: rapthorne.7345

rapthorne.7345

The thing is, you should not actually have to rely on the elite specialisation that’s behind a pay wall to fix long term issues with the core class itself

I should not have to buy HoT and spec in to my elite just to be on-par with other base, core classes.

Resident smug Englishman on the NA servers, just because.

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

And if it does, everyone will just complain about how the Elite Spec is mandatory.
Because complaining poor design.

Players will have every right to complain for two reasons:

  1. Revenant gameplay in all specialzations being both better designed and stronger
  2. Having to buy HoT to stay effective.

In the end, what absolutely needs to happen is every specialization needs to be viable (=playable, desirable, balanced) in a significant portion of the game, regardless of whether you play as vanilla necro or HoT chronomancer. Otherwise we will continue to have 3-spec metas, that rend anything else useless and forgotten tratlines like Blood Magic, using which is considered trolling or being a total noob.

I can’t hold any sort of discussion when you stake claims about Revenant balance based on marketing material or biased napkin theorycrafting. There’s nothing to discuss other than how well they sold the idea, and apparently, they sold it pretty well.

And why wouldn’t you have to buy an expansion to stay effective? I’m sure ANet made some comment 10 years ago about how “you’d never have to buy an expansion to stay effective” or whatever, but most often from what I’ve seen, expansions increase the level cap. So there. In any other MMO, can you not buy an expansion and be top-tier competitive?

I’m not saying they have to stick with the mold, but why is that idea upsetting in the first place?

Also, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment thinking every single specialization will be viable in the majority of game modes. There’s just no way. Something is going to be considered “better”, and so everything below it will, by most, be considered “not viable”. The age-old argument of “what defines viability” will kick in, but it’s all subjective anyway, and not everyone will be happy regardless.

Regardless, my only point was that even if they provide an option that helps fill in Necro’s place in top-tier PvP meta, for example, people would still complain that there’s only one option, or they have to do X, or blah blah blah. Go to a class forum for a class you think is well off, and has been. Tell me if you find any threads complaining about anything, like maybe Guards complaining they have to play Medi Guard or something. It just never ends, is all I was saying.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

it’s less jealousy and more just sheer disbelief that the game’s lead designer is looking for ways to change up one of the game’s strongest, healthiest classes while Necromancer has not had a red post in it since pretty much before I started playing, as far as I have seen

So because Guardians are in a good place they can never get any changes? That’s stupid. Guardian tomes are kitten, they always have been, they’re used only in the most niche of situations, and these changes are pretty solid, and probably won’t take a whole lot of work, since one is a shout (don’t really need visuals), and the other is just drawing a visual. So all Peters has to do is balance the numbers and hook them up, its actually a really easy change for a massive benefit to Guardians, who currently take the exact same Elite all the time.

So let’s stop being entitled brats and accept that Guardians getting good changes doesn’t mean we’re not getting anything. I would be extremely surprised if our specialization isn’t really cool, the only thing really worrying is if anyone will use anything that isn’t the spec.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Shiki.7148

Shiki.7148

Guardian was the first class I tried leveling. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m not jealous in the slightest of anything they have, because I appreciate the tools I have as a Necromancer more.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think Necro could use some changes that don’t make its own traits/mechanics conflict. But maybe, just maybe, a class that is in the meta still has design issues.

EDIT – I just watched the video for the Guardian Elite spec, and it didn’t look nearly as crazy to me as people seem to be leading on. For example, I thought the 25 stacks of Vuln was substantial. But it isn’t. It lasts 1 second per pulse on a trap you can run out of. Like a well.

In fact it looked like a well-burst style of play with its synergy. After you blow all of the traps to do max damage, if it doesn’t work, what do you do? You probably die.

I was expecting to be super impressed by the new stuff, and I really wasn’t all that much.

“Run out of”. You CANNOT run out of it, because 99% of the time there will be the elite trap placed on to of it, or guard will go ring of warding, or another "stay in here b****! trap, or knockdown, or or or… If you run into that trap with the DH near by, you are pretty much toast…if you are a necro, that is. A Warri might just live with endure pain.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

it’s less jealousy and more just sheer disbelief that the game’s lead designer is looking for ways to change up one of the game’s strongest, healthiest classes while Necromancer has not had a red post in it since pretty much before I started playing, as far as I have seen

So because Guardians are in a good place they can never get any changes? That’s stupid. Guardian tomes are kitten, they always have been, they’re used only in the most niche of situations, and these changes are pretty solid, and probably won’t take a whole lot of work, since one is a shout (don’t really need visuals), and the other is just drawing a visual. So all Peters has to do is balance the numbers and hook them up, its actually a really easy change for a massive benefit to Guardians, who currently take the exact same Elite all the time.

So let’s stop being entitled brats and accept that Guardians getting good changes doesn’t mean we’re not getting anything. I would be extremely surprised if our specialization isn’t really cool, the only thing really worrying is if anyone will use anything that isn’t the spec.

To me it’s different they are directly communicating with them because our views of necro and theirs don’t match so they rather keep putting bandages unless they really speak with us and this was all the worse and most annoying joke ever.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Gryph.8237

Gryph.8237

I am glad for guardians, as I like the class, and the guardian community in general has been pretty stagnant and unchanged because I consider it the most balanced class. It can do great damage and the expense of defense, and it can do great defense at the expense of damage output. It takes skill to play a guardian well, and they are wanted in all apsect of the game, given their mechanic and usefulness to groups. Thus, I have no problem with them getting what they have been given.

That said, I am jealous that now they will be able to play a condi build better than we can. I am jealous that a guardian can, with a great deal of defense, play a better condition attrition class, while outputting boons and with a great number of condi clears, etc.

We are just loosing our usefulness in this game. I am just kittened that the devs cannot look at our class and boost it up a bit. Why would they make the guardian class a better condi output class than our weaker, light armored class? kittenes me off, though I am glad for the guardian class, and I would be more content if they would suck it up and improve our general class (f the specs).

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: MethaneGas.8357

MethaneGas.8357

I’m sitting here… in awe at the negativity. Ahhh…. a fresh air of negativity – a perfect start to any day.

Fyi guard won’t be anywhere near as good as a Necro in applying condis. Plz. What? Traps, you say? Were they stun breaks? Nope. Were they ranged? Nope… can a guardian get good poisons/bleeds/torment? Still nope. Can they get good burning? Yes. Ok…. so burning and a stationary bay-blade trap which you have to trait for somehow outshine the Necro class. #logic

Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior, DR[OHai]
YouTube Channel

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Shiki.7148

Shiki.7148

I’m sitting here… in awe at the negativity. Ahhh…. a fresh air of negativity – a perfect start to any day.

Fyi guard won’t be anywhere near as good as a Necro in applying condis. Plz. What? Traps, you say? Were they stun breaks? Nope. Were they ranged? Nope… can a guardian get good poisons/bleeds/torment? Still nope. Can they get good burning? Yes. Ok…. so burning and a stationary bay-blade trap which you have to trait for somehow outshine the Necro class. #logic

According to the Ready Up on the new traitsystem, traps are supposed to become ground targeted by default. Why they weren’t in the Guardian Ready Up, i don’t know. Either different builds to test stuff on, or reverted because deemed too strong… No idea.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

I’m sitting here… in awe at the negativity. Ahhh…. a fresh air of negativity – a perfect start to any day.

Fyi guard won’t be anywhere near as good as a Necro in applying condis. Plz. What? Traps, you say? Were they stun breaks? Nope. Were they ranged? Nope… can a guardian get good poisons/bleeds/torment? Still nope. Can they get good burning? Yes. Ok…. so burning and a stationary bay-blade trap which you have to trait for somehow outshine the Necro class. #logic

Actually if you watch the stream he puts 16 or so bleeds on in an instant

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

I’m sitting here… in awe at the negativity. Ahhh…. a fresh air of negativity – a perfect start to any day.

Fyi guard won’t be anywhere near as good as a Necro in applying condis. Plz. What? Traps, you say? Were they stun breaks? Nope. Were they ranged? Nope… can a guardian get good poisons/bleeds/torment? Still nope. Can they get good burning? Yes. Ok…. so burning and a stationary bay-blade trap which you have to trait for somehow outshine the Necro class. #logic

Actually if you watch the stream he puts 16 or so bleeds on in an instant

Then how many bleeds can he apply after that?

You want to know a sweet combo that does a lot of damage? Immobilize with Dagger 3, drop WoS, Focus #4, immediately into DS, then LB.

And if you blow all of your bleeds instantly, they’ll be transferred/cleared, most likely.

I’m still not impressed.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: MethaneGas.8357

MethaneGas.8357

I’m sitting here… in awe at the negativity. Ahhh…. a fresh air of negativity – a perfect start to any day.

Fyi guard won’t be anywhere near as good as a Necro in applying condis. Plz. What? Traps, you say? Were they stun breaks? Nope. Were they ranged? Nope… can a guardian get good poisons/bleeds/torment? Still nope. Can they get good burning? Yes. Ok…. so burning and a stationary bay-blade trap which you have to trait for somehow outshine the Necro class. #logic

Actually if you watch the stream he puts 16 or so bleeds on in an instant

That was with 2 traps on an NPC which stood in his traps. The two traps he used both have a 45 second cooldown. So 16 bleed stacks every 45 seconds… which means that you will have only 1 stun break xD Unless you trait for your F3 to be a stun break… which means you’d lose out on Permeating Wrath (trait which makes your F1 burn around your target).
It looks good on paper but in sPvP… unless you are REALLY coordianted… people aren’t going to stand in your traps like that… and even if they do, a single cleanse could remove everything.

Edit: Procession of Blades = 10 bleeds and Light’s Judgement = 10 more bleeds over 10 seconds (1 bleed each second in an area). Epidemic still king.

Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior, DR[OHai]
YouTube Channel

(edited by MethaneGas.8357)

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Guardian was the first class I tried leveling. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m not jealous in the slightest of anything they have, because I appreciate the tools I have as a Necromancer more.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think Necro could use some changes that don’t make its own traits/mechanics conflict. But maybe, just maybe, a class that is in the meta still has design issues.

EDIT – I just watched the video for the Guardian Elite spec, and it didn’t look nearly as crazy to me as people seem to be leading on. For example, I thought the 25 stacks of Vuln was substantial. But it isn’t. It lasts 1 second per pulse on a trap you can run out of. Like a well.

In fact it looked like a well-burst style of play with its synergy. After you blow all of the traps to do max damage, if it doesn’t work, what do you do? You probably die.

I was expecting to be super impressed by the new stuff, and I really wasn’t all that much.

“Run out of”. You CANNOT run out of it, because 99% of the time there will be the elite trap placed on to of it, or guard will go ring of warding, or another "stay in here b****! trap, or knockdown, or or or… If you run into that trap with the DH near by, you are pretty much toast…if you are a necro, that is. A Warri might just live with endure pain.

99% of the time? Do you even believe that? This is getting crazy.

I watched the guardian video thinking how great the necro elite spec will likely be, not that it is so OP and the sky is falling. Numbers can and likely will change. Necro experienced a lot of changes right before launch, so did guardians. When necro dagger launched, it was laughably weak. Look at it now. These numbers are almost surely going to change, you should be paying more attention to the mechanics than the numbers.

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Shiki.7148

Shiki.7148

Guardian was the first class I tried leveling. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m not jealous in the slightest of anything they have, because I appreciate the tools I have as a Necromancer more.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think Necro could use some changes that don’t make its own traits/mechanics conflict. But maybe, just maybe, a class that is in the meta still has design issues.

EDIT – I just watched the video for the Guardian Elite spec, and it didn’t look nearly as crazy to me as people seem to be leading on. For example, I thought the 25 stacks of Vuln was substantial. But it isn’t. It lasts 1 second per pulse on a trap you can run out of. Like a well.

In fact it looked like a well-burst style of play with its synergy. After you blow all of the traps to do max damage, if it doesn’t work, what do you do? You probably die.

I was expecting to be super impressed by the new stuff, and I really wasn’t all that much.

“Run out of”. You CANNOT run out of it, because 99% of the time there will be the elite trap placed on to of it, or guard will go ring of warding, or another "stay in here b****! trap, or knockdown, or or or… If you run into that trap with the DH near by, you are pretty much toast…if you are a necro, that is. A Warri might just live with endure pain.

99% of the time? Do you even believe that? This is getting crazy.

I watched the guardian video thinking how great the necro elite spec will likely be, not that it is so OP and the sky is falling. Numbers can and likely will change. Necro experienced a lot of changes right before launch, so did guardians. When necro dagger launched, it was laughably weak. Look at it now. These numbers are almost surely going to change, you should be paying more attention to the mechanics than the numbers.

Well, I wouldn’t place the damage traps without a way to CC enemies inside it 99% of the time, so yeah. If you place the traps without setting up a CC, it’s your own fault if they run out after 2 ticks (and let’s be real, the same applies for a power necro that takes wells into PvP). Or better said, if you want to do a trap build DO a trap build. Not just take a random trap or two and assume it will be useful, you have to commit your build to it. As it should be.

Well except if you take eg. the Judgement trap purely to reveal stealthed foes and not for damage/vuln, but then you better have the damage elsewhere.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

Guardian was the first class I tried leveling. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m not jealous in the slightest of anything they have, because I appreciate the tools I have as a Necromancer more.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think Necro could use some changes that don’t make its own traits/mechanics conflict. But maybe, just maybe, a class that is in the meta still has design issues.

EDIT – I just watched the video for the Guardian Elite spec, and it didn’t look nearly as crazy to me as people seem to be leading on. For example, I thought the 25 stacks of Vuln was substantial. But it isn’t. It lasts 1 second per pulse on a trap you can run out of. Like a well.

In fact it looked like a well-burst style of play with its synergy. After you blow all of the traps to do max damage, if it doesn’t work, what do you do? You probably die.

I was expecting to be super impressed by the new stuff, and I really wasn’t all that much.

“Run out of”. You CANNOT run out of it, because 99% of the time there will be the elite trap placed on to of it, or guard will go ring of warding, or another "stay in here b****! trap, or knockdown, or or or… If you run into that trap with the DH near by, you are pretty much toast…if you are a necro, that is. A Warri might just live with endure pain.

99% of the time? Do you even believe that? This is getting crazy.

I watched the guardian video thinking how great the necro elite spec will likely be, not that it is so OP and the sky is falling. Numbers can and likely will change. Necro experienced a lot of changes right before launch, so did guardians. When necro dagger launched, it was laughably weak. Look at it now. These numbers are almost surely going to change, you should be paying more attention to the mechanics than the numbers.

Well, I wouldn’t place the damage traps without a way to CC enemies inside it 99% of the time, so yeah. If you place the traps without setting up a CC, it’s your own fault if they run out after 2 ticks (and let’s be real, the same applies for a power necro that takes wells into PvP). Or better said, if you want to do a trap build DO a trap build. Not just take a random trap or two and assume it will be useful, you have to commit your build to it. As it should be.

Well except if you take eg. the Judgement trap purely to reveal stealthed foes and not for damage/vuln, but then you better have the damage elsewhere.

If they do a trap build, how weak are they going to be to condis/team focus? I’m not sold that a trap build is going to be any good beyond pub/newb stomping, or picking on some specific other class.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Shiki.7148

Shiki.7148

Guardian was the first class I tried leveling. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m not jealous in the slightest of anything they have, because I appreciate the tools I have as a Necromancer more.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think Necro could use some changes that don’t make its own traits/mechanics conflict. But maybe, just maybe, a class that is in the meta still has design issues.

EDIT – I just watched the video for the Guardian Elite spec, and it didn’t look nearly as crazy to me as people seem to be leading on. For example, I thought the 25 stacks of Vuln was substantial. But it isn’t. It lasts 1 second per pulse on a trap you can run out of. Like a well.

In fact it looked like a well-burst style of play with its synergy. After you blow all of the traps to do max damage, if it doesn’t work, what do you do? You probably die.

I was expecting to be super impressed by the new stuff, and I really wasn’t all that much.

“Run out of”. You CANNOT run out of it, because 99% of the time there will be the elite trap placed on to of it, or guard will go ring of warding, or another "stay in here b****! trap, or knockdown, or or or… If you run into that trap with the DH near by, you are pretty much toast…if you are a necro, that is. A Warri might just live with endure pain.

99% of the time? Do you even believe that? This is getting crazy.

I watched the guardian video thinking how great the necro elite spec will likely be, not that it is so OP and the sky is falling. Numbers can and likely will change. Necro experienced a lot of changes right before launch, so did guardians. When necro dagger launched, it was laughably weak. Look at it now. These numbers are almost surely going to change, you should be paying more attention to the mechanics than the numbers.

Well, I wouldn’t place the damage traps without a way to CC enemies inside it 99% of the time, so yeah. If you place the traps without setting up a CC, it’s your own fault if they run out after 2 ticks (and let’s be real, the same applies for a power necro that takes wells into PvP). Or better said, if you want to do a trap build DO a trap build. Not just take a random trap or two and assume it will be useful, you have to commit your build to it. As it should be.

Well except if you take eg. the Judgement trap purely to reveal stealthed foes and not for damage/vuln, but then you better have the damage elsewhere.

If they do a trap build, how weak are they going to be to condis/team focus? I’m not sold that a trap build is going to be any good beyond pub/newb stomping, or picking on some specific other class.

They can still take hammer + traps. And with trap build i don’t mean all traps. A Wellomancer also isn’t all traps. But if you take the multihit-traps, you should take enough CC to keep enemies in there, aswell as a weapon to profit from eg the jugement trap.

So something like (bow) Hammer, heal, utility, judgement trap, whirling trap, dragons maw. Just as an example. The healing trap heals too little when not triggered (mind you, if the traps DO become ground targeted by default, that the second heal is pretty massive (currently)… depends on how much the “arm time” of traps fudges with it though), and trap that shatteres pieces of gatherable Aegis is more for a build that wants to purely spam protective abilities. The blade ring trap may be situationally useful …

Anyway, there you go. Also the guardian can now stealth (runes of the trapper… lel).

Actually, now that i think about it, one or two traps on a bunker guard would be funny, too. Either get off point or get shrekt. But anyway, let’s see how the numbers change. I doubt they will change in a way that makes the DH useless though.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Guardian was the first class I tried leveling. It wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m not jealous in the slightest of anything they have, because I appreciate the tools I have as a Necromancer more.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think Necro could use some changes that don’t make its own traits/mechanics conflict. But maybe, just maybe, a class that is in the meta still has design issues.

EDIT – I just watched the video for the Guardian Elite spec, and it didn’t look nearly as crazy to me as people seem to be leading on. For example, I thought the 25 stacks of Vuln was substantial. But it isn’t. It lasts 1 second per pulse on a trap you can run out of. Like a well.

In fact it looked like a well-burst style of play with its synergy. After you blow all of the traps to do max damage, if it doesn’t work, what do you do? You probably die.

I was expecting to be super impressed by the new stuff, and I really wasn’t all that much.

“Run out of”. You CANNOT run out of it, because 99% of the time there will be the elite trap placed on to of it, or guard will go ring of warding, or another "stay in here b****! trap, or knockdown, or or or… If you run into that trap with the DH near by, you are pretty much toast…if you are a necro, that is. A Warri might just live with endure pain.

99% of the time? Do you even believe that? This is getting crazy.

I watched the guardian video thinking how great the necro elite spec will likely be, not that it is so OP and the sky is falling. Numbers can and likely will change. Necro experienced a lot of changes right before launch, so did guardians. When necro dagger launched, it was laughably weak. Look at it now. These numbers are almost surely going to change, you should be paying more attention to the mechanics than the numbers.

Well, I wouldn’t place the damage traps without a way to CC enemies inside it 99% of the time, so yeah. If you place the traps without setting up a CC, it’s your own fault if they run out after 2 ticks (and let’s be real, the same applies for a power necro that takes wells into PvP). Or better said, if you want to do a trap build DO a trap build. Not just take a random trap or two and assume it will be useful, you have to commit your build to it. As it should be.

Well except if you take eg. the Judgement trap purely to reveal stealthed foes and not for damage/vuln, but then you better have the damage elsewhere.

If they do a trap build, how weak are they going to be to condis/team focus? I’m not sold that a trap build is going to be any good beyond pub/newb stomping, or picking on some specific other class.

They can still take hammer + traps. And with trap build i don’t mean all traps. A Wellomancer also isn’t all traps. But if you take the multihit-traps, you should take enough CC to keep enemies in there, aswell as a weapon to profit from eg the jugement trap.

So something like (bow) Hammer, heal, utility, judgement trap, whirling trap, dragons maw. Just as an example. The healing trap heals too little when not triggered (mind you, if the traps DO become ground targeted by default, that the second heal is pretty massive (currently)… depends on how much the “arm time” of traps fudges with it though), and trap that shatteres pieces of gatherable Aegis is more for a build that wants to purely spam protective abilities. The blade ring trap may be situationally useful …

Anyway, there you go. Also the guardian can now stealth (runes of the trapper… lel).

Actually, now that i think about it, one or two traps on a bunker guard would be funny, too. Either get off point or get shrekt. But anyway, let’s see how the numbers change. I doubt they will change in a way that makes the DH useless though.

That build you outlined will either have no gap closers, or no condition removal. Doesn’t seem very viable. And taking shouts and team support away from bunker guards is certainly not a net gain because it undermines the point of a bunker guardian.

You and maybe some others in this thread need to stop looking at this as “Well now they can do all this too!” It’s not in addition to their current specs, it’s in place of their current specs. You won’t be fighting a meditation guard with traps, because they can’t have both.

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Any Guardian trap build has a gap closer on F2

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Any Guardian trap build has a gap closer on F2

You’re right, but if it doesn’t have JI, there’s no combo with Ring of Warding, or some of the other combos that JI allows and are a huge strength of DPS guards.

look at what the guardians got

in Necromancer

Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

There won’t be such a thing as Trap Guardians in PvP. Traps are a more extreme version of the Necromancer wells, with higher CDs, higher activation times, and forced melee.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build