Guild Wars 2

as title
this would provide a number of benefits without it being too op

this would make dhuumfire not bad(might be op if triple hit)

would make life siphon better in ds

help aginst blind/ageis

get condi necros to stop kittening about ds

only down side is that retal might screw u a little bit but who cares!

Are you asking for piercing/cleave or for it to be a chain skill? I’m confused, because Life Blast can already pierce with Unyielding Blast and it really doesn’t make anything you mention better.

I believe he/she thinks life blast should be a chain skill. The rest of the post is about the benefits from making life blast a chain skill. It’s not a bad idea and I agree with the change, but with reaper getting a chain auto this change wouldn’t happen till after reaper release.

Personally I think that Reaper auto should only give trait bonuses on the third hit. This would make balancing of traits for Shroud 1 much easier without having to worry about a trait being OP on reaper but UP on necro. But I think this solves the issue better.

The Wizland.8435:

Personally I think that Reaper auto should only give trait bonuses on the third hit. This would make balancing of traits for Shroud 1 much easier without having to worry about a trait being OP on reaper but UP on necro.

You still have to deal with the cleaving vs projectile issue.

Well, we already have access to piercing, so what exactly do you mean OP? Ricochet hits? Small AoE-blast on hit? Two/three projectiles per skill activation?
Would be all nice and dandy for us, but it wouldn´t really address any of the more pressing issues the class has currently.

Skoigoth.9238:

Well, we already have access to piercing, so what exactly do you mean OP? Ricochet hits? Small AoE-blast on hit? Two/three projectiles per skill activation?
Would be all nice and dandy for us, but it wouldn´t really address any of the more pressing issues the class has currently.

I think I understand what the op is saying. Which is life blast still sending out a single shot, or a volley of three, with the current cast speed it has already. But each shot doing 1/2 or 2/3 less damage depending on the number of hits. It would still pierce, but each time it hits something it counts as two or three hits, meaning it would proc the vampiric and Dhuum Fire traits two or three times. Basically anything with an on-hit effect. It’s actually a pretty good idea considering how much hp we would recover in shroud if we hit enough. Sure it won’t solve all the classes’ problems, but I wouldn’t say no to this one. Though I will be honest, I’d rather have plague blast on land, it would be amazing.

Skoigoth.9238:

Well, we already have access to piercing, so what exactly do you mean OP? Ricochet hits? Small AoE-blast on hit? Two/three projectiles per skill activation?

Replace:
Damage: 246 (1.0)
Damage Damage within 600 units.: 345 (1.4)

For:
Damage (2x): 246 (1.0)
Damage Damage within 600 units (2x).: 345 (1.4)

It’s the same damage and still single target, but procs twice per attack.
I like this change. Power necros would be kittened that their damage doesn’t show high numbers anymore. haha

FLiP.7680:

Skoigoth.9238:

Well, we already have access to piercing, so what exactly do you mean OP? Ricochet hits? Small AoE-blast on hit? Two/three projectiles per skill activation?

Replace:
Damage: 246 (1.0)
Damage Damage within 600 units.: 345 (1.4)

For:
Damage (2x): 246 (1.0)
Damage Damage within 600 units (2x).: 345 (1.4)

It’s the same damage and still single target, but procs twice per attack.
I like this change. Power necros would be kittened that their damage doesn’t show high numbers anymore. haha

As a power Necro myself, I’d actually prefer it. Increases the chances of at least one hit per attack, and procs vampiric traits twice. Sounds fine to me (also, it would make the damaging part of the vamp traits more impactful per attack)

Make Dhuumfire spread burning to up to 3 nearby targets when hit, No CD, no nothing.

Now makes a worthy GM trait, is balanced next to FitG and Death perception.

hopaway.2860:

I believe he/she thinks life blast should be a chain skill. The rest of the post is about the benefits from making life blast a chain skill. It’s not a bad idea and I agree with the change, but with reaper getting a chain auto this change wouldn’t happen till after reaper release.

no i ment for a single blast that hit 2/3 times like 2 projectiles stack on top of eachother much like warrior’s duel shot

but make animation seem like its only one for the sake of making it still looking like 1 blast

I think it would be better if it bounced like Reapers Touch (Focus 4) though we’d probably only get this traited. Here’s how the skill could look.

Blast a foe with life force that bounces between foes, dealing more damage the closer you are to your target.
Damage: 246 (1.0)?
Damage within 600 units.: 345 (1.4)?
Number of Bounces: 3
Range: 1,200

This combined with Dhuumfire would be effective and would work well for power and vamps as well. Make it a trait and add vulnerability his might be a good replacement for Unyielding Blast, bounce instead of pierce. It would add a lot of versatility to the skill. Multi hits in 1v1 and not having to line up foes in group fights.

I think OP meant something like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=56240/glyph-of-shadow-bolt

Basically, same cast time, but instead of one bolt, you split it and fire 3 individual, lesser ones, each doing 1/3 of regular LB damage and it’s not a channel, they hit at roughly same time.

It would allow to proc Dhuumfire and siphon from each Lesser Bolt hit.

Good idea, btw.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge

Except it always hits your target 3 times.

I assume the OP meant for Life Blast to fire 2 or 3 projectiles in quick succession, with the damage split between them.

Which would actually be really, really nice for Dhuumfire, and probably one of the better anti-blind skills at our disposal.

That’s actually worth bumping up.

Would make Life Blast actually decent skill. We could lower the damage on it, in exchange.

For people who don’t know what OP possibly meant, there’s an example for such treatment from other game:

Suggestions : Make the piercing/vulnerability from Unyielding Blast a base ability of the skill itself, and make the channel time faster or have it shoot 2/3 shots per channel.

Nilkemia.8507:

Suggestions : Make the piercing/vulnerability from Unyielding Blast a base ability of the skill itself, and make the channel time faster or have it shoot 2/3 shots per channel.

I think almost all players agree life blast should pierce base line and that trait should be to make splash damage or speed boost on life blast

Pretty awesome idea. The bouncing idea is also really sweet, except it gets stopped by blocks and blinds while tripple-tap life blast helps with that.

I think he meant it shoots 2 projectiles?

Personally, I would rather it pierced baseline, because the projectile speed is so slow you can LOS a necro just by sidestepping behind your pet/rock dog/teammate.

Additionally, I think that, for balance reasons, they should cut the casting time down to 0.5", and halve its damage coefficient. I don’t think any of you are wondering what I mean by “for balance reasons”: I’m obviously talking about Reaper. Since they made Reaper’s Shroud skill 1 a 0.5" cleaving activation time, it becomes a nightmare to balance both this and Life Blast properly. If you’re a Reaper, Dhuumfire can inflict 3 stacks of burn to 3 targets in the same time it takes a core necro to get off 1 Life blast (1" cast time plus 0.4" aftercast) to cause 1 stack of burning to a single target. This will create a balancing NIGHTMARE for ANet, and it’ll only become worse as more specialisations and more traits that affect shroud skill 1 are released!

Making LB into a 0.5" skill (tuning down its damage proportionately) and letting it pierce baseline will solve all those problems, as it’ll be able to hit at comparative speed and comparable numbers of targets as Reapers Shroud skill 1 without any trait investment. That way, whatever’s balanced for Reaper is balanced for Necro automatically.

Clearly a 1,200 range skill shouldn’t be exactly the same as a melee skill, of course: but I think their relative effectiveness would be more easily balanced by giving Reapers Shroud 1 a higher damage coefficient than Life Blast, to counteract its disadvantage in range. It would be an easier and more effective way to balance these skills when there are so many different traits that can affect these skills.

Also, it’s clear that the piercing trait will need to be retired once HoT comes out because, come on, how do you make a melee skill “pierce” baseline? They can roll in the vulnerability into spite adept minor, or into Gluttony which is a pretty sub-par trait.

This would actually make dhuumfire worth it and give condi builds a reason to use shroud. Would also balance with reaper because the auto is still the same three hits. somehow this makes perfect sense.

3 hits and each orb can ricochet to nearby targets desperately meaning you can do ok area damage but the single target stil takes a big hit. Not sure if they had the tech but would be cool as hell.

manveruppd.7601:

I think he meant it shoots 2 projectiles?

Personally, I would rather it pierced baseline, because the projectile speed is so slow you can LOS a necro just by sidestepping behind your pet/rock dog/teammate.

Additionally, I think that, for balance reasons, they should cut the casting time down to 0.5", and halve its damage coefficient. I don’t think any of you are wondering what I mean by “for balance reasons”: I’m obviously talking about Reaper. Since they made Reaper’s Shroud skill 1 a 0.5" cleaving activation time, it becomes a nightmare to balance both this and Life Blast properly. If you’re a Reaper, Dhuumfire can inflict 3 stacks of burn to 3 targets in the same time it takes a core necro to get off 1 Life blast (1" cast time plus 0.4" aftercast) to cause 1 stack of burning to a single target. This will create a balancing NIGHTMARE for ANet, and it’ll only become worse as more specialisations and more traits that affect shroud skill 1 are released!

Making LB into a 0.5" skill (tuning down its damage proportionately) and letting it pierce baseline will solve all those problems, as it’ll be able to hit at comparative speed and comparable numbers of targets as Reapers Shroud skill 1 without any trait investment. That way, whatever’s balanced for Reaper is balanced for Necro automatically.

Clearly a 1,200 range skill shouldn’t be exactly the same as a melee skill, of course: but I think their relative effectiveness would be more easily balanced by giving Reapers Shroud 1 a higher damage coefficient than Life Blast, to counteract its disadvantage in range. It would be an easier and more effective way to balance these skills when there are so many different traits that can affect these skills.

Also, it’s clear that the piercing trait will need to be retired once HoT comes out because, come on, how do you make a melee skill “pierce” baseline? They can roll in the vulnerability into spite adept minor, or into Gluttony which is a pretty sub-par trait.

cast time reduced would be nice but no damage reduction try hiting lb on condi they laught at your lb

Hi guys as the OP I’m here to clarify
what i want to say is make life blast’s projectile hit twice same cast time and same attack time no other change (because arena net does not want a fast necro so we’ll stick to that)

warrior’s longbow apply burn when traited in a master trait, lon bow auto hits twice

ther’s no reason that a necro grandmaster trait should do anything less
it will be a single projectile, but it hits the opponent twice, this allowing vampire traits/dhuumfire proc twice, increasing shroud play with condi necos and making blood necros a bit stronger with siphon traits due to low attack/second in death shroud.

this would make base necro’s shroud not bad when using on hit traits such as dhuumfire.

this also have a additional benefit where blinds and aegis will be less effective (but not completely ineffective) to a necro, who’s slow attacks in shroud is hard countered by blinds and aegis thrown around aginst a guard/thief group.

how to code this isnt exactly hard
take warrior’s longbow for example that fire two projectiles at once, merely make life-blast fire two projectiles at the sametime at half the damage each and make one projectile invisible, there u have a perfect double hitting life-blast that graphically look identical

i know compairing between classes isnt exactly a good thing to do but:
look at warrior longbow applying 2stacks of burning when they attack because their auto hits twice
-burning arrow is a master trait unlike dhuumfire lol

Zantmar.5406:

Hi guys as the OP I’m here to clarify
what i want to say is make life blast’s projectile hit twice same cast time and same attack time no other change (because arena net does not want a fast necro so we’ll stick to that)

it will be a single projectile, but it hits the opponent twice, this allowing vampire traits/dhuumfire proc twice, increasing shroud play with condi necos and making blood necros a bit stronger with siphon traits due to low attack/second in death shroud.

this would make base necro’s shroud not bad when using on hit traits such as dhuumfire.

this also have a additional benefit where blinds and aegis will be less effective (but not completely ineffective) to a necro, who’s slow attacks in shroud is hard countered by blinds and aegis thrown around aginst a guard/thief group.

how to code this isnt exactly hard
take warrior’s longbow for example that fire two projectiles at once, merely make life-blast fire two projectiles at the sametime at half the damage each and make one projectile invisible, there u have a perfect double hitting life-blast that graphically look identical

Somewhat simple but worth adding to the list.

Sagat.3285:

Somewhat simple but worth adding to the list.

as a new necro player its good to know that my suggestion is worthy

it wouldn’t go aginst necro’s theme, as we have always been a multi-hit skill class

Yeah I think its a good idea, basically just a mechanic change but effectively buffs a lot of things that need buffing.

If we every got something like this people would qq because they can no longer blind spam to win. but it would solve so many issues with several things and balance things out between why some traits will suck for base necro but be awesome for reaper. lets them be good for both.

Sigmoid.7082:

If we every got something like this people would qq because they can no longer blind spam to win. but it would solve so many issues with several things and balance things out between why some traits will suck for base necro but be awesome for reaper. lets them be good for both.

You could have it be blindable most likely, I’d be surprised if they didn’t have a way to make the second hit conditional on the first one landing (we have some abilities that have secondary actives already). So make the second hit basically a tick of say 10 damage that is applied as an on-hit by the first ability. If you are blinded or in any other way avoid the first tick you also avoid the second, and the second exists only to apply the proper on-hits that Life Blast should.

why go to all this trouble and not make dhuumfire apply 2 stacks of burning ?

because it can use play in helping siphon necro, it can help against blind spam

2stack of burning on dhummfire will make reaper op(which is almost the entire point of this thread)

I would only be ok with this change if the triple life blast projectiles travelled in a pretty and rotating helical axis.

Zantmar.5406:

because it can use play in helping siphon necro, it can help against blind spam

2stack of burning on dhummfire will make reaper op(which is almost the entire point of this thread)

my response was to bhawbs comment, ‘’ If you are blinded or in any other way avoid the first tick you also avoid the second’’. Yeah reaper would be op with 2 burns on auto (or not so much, see guardian), but still its easier to make life blast apply 2 stacks and reaper shroud #1 apply 1 stack

Most skills that hit twice though (lke Necrotic Bite or Lightning Whip) are only affected by blind for one of the hits afaik.

I seriously think speeding it up to the same speed as Reaper’s Shroud would solve a lot of problems. I don’t think it needs a buff per se – the zerker shroudmancer is a very formidable force and I don’t think that build needs any helps – I just think it’d be better if, instead of slow 5k life blasts, they could get in twice as many 2.5k life blasts. It would make it so much easier to balance with Reaper coming round the corner.

and is prolly easier to give a skill new projectile than to modify a trait
i modded games and giving a new projectile to skills is much easier than altering a mechanic

Zantmar.5406:

and is prolly easier to give a skill new projectile than to modify a trait
i modded games and giving a new projectile to skills is much easier than altering a mechanic

I don’t think lowering the cast time and damage is a new mechanic. Half the attack speed will send out 2 blasts in the same time. Though the extra projectile might work better as you are free to start activating another skill as the 2nd projectile is fired instead of just auto attacking.

Anything that makes Life blast more similar to RS1 is good in my book. I don’t like the idea of mismatched traits.

nekretaal.6485:

Anything that makes Life blast more similar to RS1 is good in my book. I don’t like the idea of mismatched traits.

Going to have to agree with you. They clearly want the same traits to effect either Death Shroud or Reaper’s Shroud. We’ve got three traits that effect shroud skill 1 (Dhuumfire and Unyielding Blast on hit, Reaper’s Might on skill use). Therefore if they want trait balance to be reasonable between the two versions of Shroud Skill 1, they should have roughly equal hit/activation rates. Otherwise the trait will either be too powerful or too weak for one version.

This actually supports the idea of leaving Life Blast as a single projectile but reducing the cast time (including the absurdly long aftercast) – that would normalize all three traits at once, since Reaper’s Might triggers on skill activation rather than on hit. They would probably want to reduce the damage on Life Blast to keep the DPS similar, of course.

It would also be nice if they made Life Blast pierce (3 targets) by default, since Life Rend/Life Slash/Life Reap all cleave (3 targets for the first two, 5 for Life Reap) by default. Unyielding Blast could either increase the number of targets pierced for Life Blast or change it to a bouncing projectile.

Alternately, piercing could be baseline and they could rename Unyielding Blast entirely, keeping the Vuln application and adding “Shroud skill 1 transfers one condition to targets hit” (aka the “Plague Blast on land” idea some have suggested, except cooler because Reapers get it too). Might need an ICD for balance? Not sure, Plague Blast doesn’t have one, but then, underwater combat is rather neglected …

I just want LB to be like half the speed and about 40% less damage so it feels better in general and traits can be better balanced between the two shrouds. And baseline pierce of 3 with UB raising targets hit to 5.

Here is a good reason why Life Blast should hit twice: because it hits the body and the soul of your target.

FLiP.7680:

Here is a good reason why Life Blast should hit twice: because it hits the body and the soul of your target.

Oooo life “blast”.

Split the dmg 50/50. Hits the target for 50% of the dmg, then BLASTS for the other 50%, also triggering all life blast traits.

AND each one is a blast finisher. Np, NP. Hire me.

Watch out for that extra retaliation damage. Don’t forget to strip before you blast!