Guild Wars 2

which is better for commanding?

which has more self-sustain, mobility, CC, group support, and overall more tanky?

I’d differ anything I say to Ascii, who would know this way better. But imo, it doesn’t really matter what class your on, as far as commanding goes. You don’t always have to be first in-last out as commander.

As for what you are asking:
Self-sustain – probably Necro, I feel, for WvW, because of the insane LF generation and defensive stats you can get there
Mobility – basically tied even for none. They are both incredibly immobile classes
CC – Guardian, which is why they can take part in the melee/CC clusterkitten train
Group Support – Guardian. Both can do this, but Guardian does it easier and better
Overall Tankiness – in WvW I’d tend towards Guardian being overall tankier, if you consider every situation, although I feel like Plague’s ability to make you essentially invulnerable for its duration brings Necros above for some situations. It just depends on what situation you are looking at as to who will outperform.

Bhawb.7408:

But imo, it doesn’t really matter what class your on, as far as commanding goes. You don’t always have to be first in-last out as commander.

I think this is true for small groups but I’m not sure how a zerg would function if the commander led from the rear. After all, the fundamental thing in a zerg fight is to move in tight groups to concentrate damage, buffs and meat shield for one another. The more diffuse the group, the easier it is to cut swaths through their ranks. This is one of the main reasons why PUG blobs get wiped by much smaller guild groups (well, that and they tend to run some incredibly stupid builds). Without the visual of a tag leading the group, it’s difficult to see how a group could maneuver effectively.

Zerg commanding wise…

Self-Sustain: Guardian. Easy access to many blocks, Aegis, heals and even invulnerability easily give them the advantage in high DPS zerg fights as Commander. Death Shroud does not hold up in zerg fights against lots of damage. LF and DS recharge won’t catch up.

Mobility: Guardian. Easy access to speed buffs and most importantly, Self/Group Stability. Necromancer is much more vunerable to stun locks, CC etc. and it’s never good when your commander gets “stuck” and isn’t able to direct allies properly due to being CCed in the back of an enemy zerg after a charge. Easier to direct by saying “Follow my tag North! Push with me!” then “Rally to the North! Don’t follow my tag im stun locked! Now flank and charge them from the left side! Your other left!” :p

Group Support: Guardian overall since a lot of their base abilities are geared towards buffing groups. Necromancer Support although effective, needs to be heavily specced for in order to reach the same level. Apothecary Well Support is what I use in WvW in zergs, using Marks, WoB, WoP, Transfusion, WoC/Epidemic (to convert/transfer enemy buffs to conditions…that actually do damage with condition setup), but Guardian skills are more effective when what you really need is stability, might, protection etc. Especially since conditions can be easily clensed and boons easily reapplied. I would argue that whether you’re good at support doesn’t really matter as Commander. What matters is self-sustain, mobility, knowing what you’re doing and communication.

Tanky/Bunkerish: Guardian is very tanky, but a Necro build bunker can have huge sustain as well. My personal WvW build almost never loses to a Guardian in a fair 1v1 (I mean it) and rarely 1vs2 against Guardians/Warriors (unless they get the idea to perma stun lock). It usually ends with me stomping them. It’s a different story in a zerg where Guardian has an easier time sustaining themselves on the move.

Guardian definitely wins out for commanding because they’re tougher to kill than most classes no matter the build and have better, more reliable mobility, condition removal, healing and stability than most other professions. That’s why they’re so many Guardian Commanders around. They’re made for it. I really like Necromancer for roaming though and small fights. However, you don’t need (or want imo) a commander tag for those.

Balekai.6083:

Zerg commanding wise…

Self-Sustain: Guardian. Easy access to many blocks, Aegis, heals and even invulnerability easily give them the advantage in high DPS zerg fights as Commander. Death Shroud does not hold up in zerg fights against lots of damage. LF and DS recharge won’t catch up.

Mobility: Guardian. Easy access to speed buffs and most importantly, Self/Group Stability. Necromancer is much more vunerable to stun locks, CC etc. and it’s never good when your commander gets “stuck” and isn’t able to direct allies properly due to being CCed in the back of an enemy zerg after a charge. Easier to direct by saying “Follow my tag North! Push with me!” then “Rally to the North! Don’t follow my tag im stun locked! Now flank and charge them from the left side! Your other left!” :p

Group Support: Guardian overall since a lot of their base abilities are geared towards buffing groups. Necromancer Support although effective, needs to be heavily specced for in order to reach the same level. Apothecary Well Support is what I use in WvW in zergs, using Marks, WoB, WoP, Transfusion, WoC/Epidemic (to convert/transfer enemy buffs to conditions…that actually do damage with condition setup), but Guardian skills are more effective when what you really need is stability, might, protection etc. Especially since conditions can be easily clensed and boons easily reapplied. I would argue that whether you’re good at support doesn’t really matter as Commander. What matters is self-sustain, mobility, knowing what you’re doing and communication.

Tanky/Bunkerish: Guardian is very tanky, but a Necro build bunker can have huge sustain as well. My personal WvW build almost never loses to a Guardian in a fair 1v1 (I mean it) and rarely 1vs2 against Guardians/Warriors (unless they get the idea to perma stun lock). It usually ends with me stomping them. It’s a different story in a zerg where Guardian has an easier time sustaining themselves on the move.

Guardian definitely wins out for commanding because they’re tougher to kill than most classes no matter the build and have better, more reliable mobility, condition removal, healing and stability than most other professions. That’s why they’re so many Guardian Commanders around. They’re made for it. I really like Necromancer for roaming though and small fights. However, you don’t need (or want imo) a commander tag for those.

If you’re willing to give up a few things on the offensive side, you can always trait for Foot in the Grave which gives access to massive amounts of stability — best in the game, IMO.

That being said, I agree with pretty much everything else you said, especially the part about the attributes to being a good commander.

I would add though that while you can get a necro’s stats somewhat close to a shout tank guardian’s, at the end of the day, the guardian’s heavy armor means a whopping 16% less damage. That’s a lot of damage mitigation.

Nagato no Kami.4980:

If you’re willing to give up a few things on the offensive side, you can always trait for Foot in the Grave which gives access to massive amounts of stability — best in the game, IMO.

But guardians also give it to teammates. If we’re talking big zerg, guardians win my vote for that alone. That said I’ve followed some very good zerg commanders who were mesmers and eles, so a skilled necro (who knows WHERE to push as well as WHEN) with Foot in the Grave would do fine imo. You just have to rely on your guards and melee eles to help chain stabilities for each other.

I would pin whichever character you feel you play better or enjoy more in WvW, personally.

For what class attributes you posted, it’ll be the guardian.

I command on my necro sometimes and I find that foot in the grave is a highly important trait. The lack of stability can really hurt when you’re trying to lead a group and getting bounced around like a toy.

Guardian imo. Really hilarious when you see the dorito flying left and right.

I dont know that much about gaurdian, but as a necro commander I can say it is extremely fun, We have incredible survivability, and the AoE damage does help alot as well, currently i am running this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQaZ7Jbeb87JApHWf9zzM+ub6DuD-jACBoLCyUARmmGI7pIasV1oVWERjKbYqXER1SBIr0I-e

I barely die, but still I do alot of damage, (Also Life blast 4 does do a good amount of healign)

Quenta of the Black Talons plays a necro and does/did quite well leading his guild zerg + pugs around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb7qE2SFYxQ

Racerter.4068:

I dont know that much about gaurdian, but as a necro commander I can say it is extremely fun, We have incredible survivability, and the AoE damage does help alot as well, currently i am running this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQaZ7Jbeb87JApHWf9zzM+ub6DuD-jACBoLCyUARmmGI7pIasV1oVWERjKbYqXER1SBIr0I-e

I barely die, but still I do alot of damage, (Also Life blast 4 does do a good amount of healign)

A couple of questons:

Why the rune combo? Considering your massive HP pool and armor below 3000, why not Dolyak or Melandru?

Why the scepter on a power tank? Is it for the two AOEs?

Why these sigils? Considering you’re not traited for condi damage why go with condi duration?

Considering the last two points, why not just run Dire gear instead to specialize damage or half PVT/CVT for hybrid damage?

Nagato no Kami.4980:

Racerter.4068:

I dont know that much about gaurdian, but as a necro commander I can say it is extremely fun, We have incredible survivability, and the AoE damage does help alot as well, currently i am running this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQaZ7Jbeb87JApHWf9zzM+ub6DuD-jACBoLCyUARmmGI7pIasV1oVWERjKbYqXER1SBIr0I-e

I barely die, but still I do alot of damage, (Also Life blast 4 does do a good amount of healign)

A couple of questons:

Why the rune combo? Considering your massive HP pool and armor below 3000, why not Dolyak or Melandru?

Why the scepter on a power tank? Is it for the two AOEs?

Why these sigils? Considering you’re not traited for condi damage why go with condi duration?

Considering the last two points, why not just run Dire gear instead to specialize damage or half PVT/CVT for hybrid damage?

Firstly yeah you are right about dire armour ….I have no idea how I made the mistake so thanks a lot
I wanted a especially large health pool to protect myself against the condition as they affect you with our without armour, and of course when you do go into battle you get constant protection so it does negate for the low armour (though of course you can change to melandru if you disagree),
This idea of this build was not necessarily power tank (though my mistake proves otherwise): The scepter does incredible AOE bleed, and and since necros are very efficient in AoE I used it as my only damage dealing element, and the bleed duration would increase its potential damage. The staff has condition duration for the fear, (on staff 5 and spectral wall) because I experienced how fear can do devastating affect, on open zergs and closed zergs.

Thanks again for heads up…I have no idea how this happened XD

Racerter.4068:

Nagato no Kami.4980:

Racerter.4068:

I dont know that much about gaurdian, but as a necro commander I can say it is extremely fun, We have incredible survivability, and the AoE damage does help alot as well, currently i am running this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQaZ7Jbeb87JApHWf9zzM+ub6DuD-jACBoLCyUARmmGI7pIasV1oVWERjKbYqXER1SBIr0I-e

I barely die, but still I do alot of damage, (Also Life blast 4 does do a good amount of healign)

A couple of questons:

Why the rune combo? Considering your massive HP pool and armor below 3000, why not Dolyak or Melandru?

Why the scepter on a power tank? Is it for the two AOEs?

Why these sigils? Considering you’re not traited for condi damage why go with condi duration?

Considering the last two points, why not just run Dire gear instead to specialize damage or half PVT/CVT for hybrid damage?

Firstly yeah you are right about dire armour ….I have no idea how I made the mistake so thanks a lot
I wanted a especially large health pool to protect myself against the condition as they affect you with our without armour, and of course when you do go into battle you get constant protection so it does negate for the low armour (though of course you can change to melandru if you disagree),
This idea of this build was not necessarily power tank (though my mistake proves otherwise): The scepter does incredible AOE bleed, and and since necros are very efficient in AoE I used it as my only damage dealing element, and the bleed duration would increase its potential damage. The staff has condition duration for the fear, (on staff 5 and spectral wall) because I experienced how fear can do devastating affect, on open zergs and closed zergs.

Thanks again for heads up…I have no idea how this happened XD

With CVT, the build makes perfect sense.

However, I wonder about a couple of things.

First, if you have a concern about conditions, then Melandrus are the way to go (or Hoelbreks if you were running a power build). Conditions can chew through HP pretty quickly, after all and Melandrus also provide more toughness so they’re pretty useful all around.

Next, survivability is the first concern about a command build. The second, IMO, is stability. It’s bad if you get knocked around on the way to the objective point. Good guilds can cover for this by staggering group stability but when you’re guild isn’t a full strength or there are too many CCs, this can become a concern. For this reason, I bring up Foot in the Grave (I’m kind of a fan of this trait). By taking 10 from Death and 5 from Blood, you can get on-demand stability. You lose 100 in toughness (which is bad), 100 in power (which isn’t a loss since this is a condi) and 50 in vitality (not great but you’re awash in HP and more than compensated for by the 20% more DS uptime and you could take Unyielding Blast instead of Vital Persistence for better tagging). To make up for the loss in toughness, I’d run Tropical Mousse for 100 toughness + 70 condi damage.

Nagato no Kami.4980:

Racerter.4068:

Nagato no Kami.4980:

Racerter.4068:

I dont know that much about gaurdian, but as a necro commander I can say it is extremely fun, We have incredible survivability, and the AoE damage does help alot as well, currently i am running this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQaZ7Jbeb87JApHWf9zzM+ub6DuD-jACBoLCyUARmmGI7pIasV1oVWERjKbYqXER1SBIr0I-e

I barely die, but still I do alot of damage, (Also Life blast 4 does do a good amount of healign)

A couple of questons:

Why the rune combo? Considering your massive HP pool and armor below 3000, why not Dolyak or Melandru?

Why the scepter on a power tank? Is it for the two AOEs?

Why these sigils? Considering you’re not traited for condi damage why go with condi duration?

Considering the last two points, why not just run Dire gear instead to specialize damage or half PVT/CVT for hybrid damage?

Firstly yeah you are right about dire armour ….I have no idea how I made the mistake so thanks a lot
I wanted a especially large health pool to protect myself against the condition as they affect you with our without armour, and of course when you do go into battle you get constant protection so it does negate for the low armour (though of course you can change to melandru if you disagree),
This idea of this build was not necessarily power tank (though my mistake proves otherwise): The scepter does incredible AOE bleed, and and since necros are very efficient in AoE I used it as my only damage dealing element, and the bleed duration would increase its potential damage. The staff has condition duration for the fear, (on staff 5 and spectral wall) because I experienced how fear can do devastating affect, on open zergs and closed zergs.

Thanks again for heads up…I have no idea how this happened XD

With CVT, the build makes perfect sense.

However, I wonder about a couple of things.

First, if you have a concern about conditions, then Melandrus are the way to go (or Hoelbreks if you were running a power build). Conditions can chew through HP pretty quickly, after all and Melandrus also provide more toughness so they’re pretty useful all around.

Next, survivability is the first concern about a command build. The second, IMO, is stability. It’s bad if you get knocked around on the way to the objective point. Good guilds can cover for this by staggering group stability but when you’re guild isn’t a full strength or there are too many CCs, this can become a concern. For this reason, I bring up Foot in the Grave (I’m kind of a fan of this trait). By taking 10 from Death and 5 from Blood, you can get on-demand stability. You lose 100 in toughness (which is bad), 100 in power (which isn’t a loss since this is a condi) and 50 in vitality (not great but you’re awash in HP and more than compensated for by the 20% more DS uptime and you could take Unyielding Blast instead of Vital Persistence for better tagging). To make up for the loss in toughness, I’d run Tropical Mousse for 100 toughness + 70 condi damage.

I took a look at your suggestions… and I get what you mean by changing the runes to melandru, but the thing was, melandru gives toughness and -condi duration, soldier gives toughness and vitality (vitality gives more toughness to condi, makes a single blow weaker and increases your death shroud bar) therefore I do not think I would be a better option, also if you do have a lot of condition on you, and you have to get rid of them, you have dagger 4, or staff 4 and of course you could switch your heal to consume conditions.

Stability…..We both know necromancers cant really have that much in stability, and losing so much survivability for 3 second I don’t believe is viable, what I do is before I get into a zerg, I place my fears, pop my elite skill (if off cool down) and this gives me effectively 20seconds of stability, high health and actually very good AoE, I really thought kitten this one, but then again we cannot just spam ds and get out of it for stability, and even if we could, we are getting 30crit damage, meaning that we would have had to look at precision so we wouldn’t waste it. You want to take out the vitality and some toughness for stability, but also lets not forget as a commander, you usually do get buffed quite often, as everyone is hovering around you.