Guild Wars 2

i cant even get through a full rotation in rs if i do not take soul reaping… they either need to make vital persitence baseline for rs or create a trait for it in rs. the way it is now you only have one choice of another trait line because sr is manditory

You’re going to have to provide more context in order to have a discussion around this. As of now, we have no idea what the circumstances are when you tried using RS without Vital Persistence, how long (in seconds not “rotations”) it lasted, and how long it is lasting with Vital Persistence.

How long do you think you should be able to sit in RS without traits that extend its duration? If your build is focused on staying in RS, why would you not choose traits that synergize with that build decision? If your build isn’t focused on staying in RS, shouldn’t you be using it for targeted purposes, and not “rotations”?

a lot of us said this the last 2 BWE op

Tried tonight with various builds and specs without vital persistence, pretty much haven’t had any success without vp. I will say though, many classes got tweaked and boosted, this weekend it has been a bit more difficult than last BWE. As is right now with the current balance pass, it’s very hard without vital persistence.

i would think any necro build would focus on staying in its shroud for as long as possible seeing as its the only way to stay alive on the class… and also because you are usually the focal point in a team engagement.

the circumstances… anyone pressing 111111111 will drain rs quite quickly without vp

and i should be able t sit in rs for as long as i do with vital persistance.. why does necro need to trait ds/rs to make it last long enough to soak any kind of burst? the natural degen rate of the 2 is so ridiculous that all someone needs to do is stay at range and wait for it to vanish on its own let alone hit you.

all i want is the natural degeneration of deathshroud and reaper shroud to be toned down to the same level that vp gives it even if you delete the trait without this there is not really any build diversity.. every necro should have sr trait line for vital persistance or they are just a rally bot

ozzy.8059:

i would think any necro build would focus on staying in its shroud for as long as possible seeing as its the only way to stay alive on the class… and also because you are usually the focal point in a team engagement.

In this example, you’d actually probably want to just be popping in to absorb damage, rather than camping shroud. You’d have to be spending more time out of shroud generating LF. (or at least pop it sub 50 for spectral armor proc)

i would agree with you if there was no 10 second timer tied to shroud but sadly there is.. anyone with a brain the size of a pea knows to burst when a necro leaves shroud because they cant get back in it

if they took away the timer then yes necro could be played this way but with it then there is zero chance of this ever happening

<—Having tons of success without vital persistence. Using Unholy Martyr instead.

that bandaid fix that is extremely situational and needs to draw non damaging condis or you gain more damage then you get per 3 second interval defeating the purpose of the trait

it is also extremely pointless in a 1v1.. they can just stand there watch shroud deplete in 5 seconds and carry on killing you..

lower the degen and make vp stop the degen compleately

just lower the degen and get rid of the trait.. they don’t want us to be able to sit in it while a thief or mesmer camps out in stealth and heals themselves do they…………………

ozzy.8059:

i would agree with you if there was no 10 second timer tied to shroud but sadly there is.. anyone with a brain the size of a pea knows to burst when a necro leaves shroud because they cant get back in it

if they took away the timer then yes necro could be played this way but with it then there is zero chance of this ever happening

oh I take speed of shadows I guess

still has a timer and you are still stuck with soul reaping

Well that doesn’t seem too unreasonable if you want to spec your shroud!

All necromancer specs non viable without vital persistence*

It’s like fast hands for warrior… or illusionary persona for mesmer (before patch)…

You’ve got to adjust your Playstyle.

Focusing on staying in shroud doesn’t work on reaper.

Instead enter shroud hit #3 immediately (if you get the full duration that’s a 1k heal with blighters boon), then leave shroud 9 seconds later.

Yeah basically, VP is generally needed unless you take a combination of blighter’s boon/unholy martyr, which is still dependent on having allies around you to work. The other thing I can see being problematic is that spite is mandatory on most non-minion builds because mightstacking is too easy and too strong, since might is so strong in this game, and its synergy with reaper is so great.

I can get to 25 stacks of might on reaper faster than anything else I’ve ever played if I play spite/SR/reaper (the most common build for power and celestial) and I’m just a little concerned about it, since chilling force is making it a bit over the top. I’d honestly suggest nerfing spite’s sources of might, spreading them to other traitlines (ie move reaper’s might to soul reaping or curses) and raising chilling victory to compensate.

nearlight.3064:

Yeah basically, VP is generally needed unless you take a combination of blighter’s boon/unholy martyr, which is still dependent on having allies around you to work. The other thing I can see being problematic is that spite is mandatory on most non-minion builds because mightstacking is too easy and too strong, since might is so strong in this game, and its synergy with reaper is so great.

I can get to 25 stacks of might on reaper faster than anything else I’ve ever played if I play spite/SR/reaper (the most common build for power and celestial) and I’m just a little concerned about it, since chilling force is making it a bit over the top. I’d honestly suggest nerfing spite’s sources of might, spreading them to other traitlines (ie move reaper’s might to soul reaping or curses) and raising chilling victory to compensate.

I wouldn’t worry too much, I feel like reaper’s might is going to get nerf hammered between BWE3 and launch. Probably reduced duration combined with a 1s icd.

It is not just about Reaper, neither the Death Shroud nor Reaper Shroud work without VP. LF doesn’t come to you for free, it is a hard earn and farming but then you are being punished very hard for being in Shroud even if you don’t take any damage. You have to spend 4% LF for every second in Shroud and all of your weapon skills(except dagger AA) don’t even have half of that speed of gaining LF.

ohh, imagine all the nice builds we could try if we just could get rid of vital persistence

I played reaper for a little bit with Spectral Mastery instead of Vital Persistance. It was only viable because I could get Life Force so kitten quick with triple Spectrals, but it was definitely viable.

Thoth Divine.8642:

I played reaper for a little bit with Spectral Mastery instead of Vital Persistance. It was only viable because I could get Life Force so kitten quick with triple Spectrals, but it was definitely viable.

Still stuck in Soul Reaping though and overall spectral skills including Lich are meh except S.Armor which you get two of making it look better than it actually is. The dependency on the unique line happens with every class and with elite specs coming it doesn’t offer expected diversity.

Brokensunday.4098:

lower the degen and make vp stop the degen compleately

OH MY GOD BEST CHANGE EVER!!!

back when i said vital persistence should not be base line? i take it back, reaper should has a higher degen rate than necro shroud and man this is annoying me a hell lot

Wells are almost always essential to my Necro builds but it doesn’t mean I think Vampiric Wells should be baseline. As fun as that would be.

Lahmia.2193:

Wells are almost always essential to my Necro builds but it doesn’t mean I think Vampiric Wells should be baseline. As fun as that would be.

Can you be an effective necro without wells? Yes you can. The only trait you should need to have to effectively use reaper is knight shroud. If you don’t have vp while in melee range you’re boned…

Brokensunday.4098:

lower the degen and make vp stop the degen compleately

I disagree with this, it makes VP the same problem as before, but shifts where it is. You can’t have a trait that impacts how such a core mechanic of a profession works, it’d be like having a trait that allowed LF to work as Health instead of it being baseline. VP should be made baseline in some way, and then completely change the trait that takes its place to have no effect on degen.