Guild Wars 2

i want to hear ur opinion about instead of jagged horror. what about we get fleshreaver instead….may have it if it 2 or less 1 flesh reaver if it hits 3-4 2 fleshreaver and if it hits 5 we will get 3 fleshreaver…. and anet before u think of kitten this no timer death…. thats why the sigil suck so bad all that work and gone in 30secs.

None of our current minions will work, they are either way too strong (Flesh Golem) or uninteresting and weak (basically the rest of them). They either need to design a new minion that can somehow make the skill work or redesign it.

I’m for blood fiends. That pet seems to know who and when to attack.

Maybe make it one strong minion (like flesh golem) and make its stats scale depending on how many people you hit. This way it will not be a monster in 1 v 1 while melting by random AoE in 5 v 5. If you summon 5 weenies they will instantly explode in a big fight.

As Bhawb said, no current minion works. On top of this, only a minion mancer would probably be interested in it, and they’d have to forego a minion to get it. If they did this, they’d be far better off getting a spectral skill instead.

The skill should be redesigned entirely. Keep it minion themed for all I care, but provide something the class desperately needs.

For example:
We could summon a half buried bone giant who knocks opponents away and then spins in place trying to dislodge himself knocking back all projectiles and anyone who got close for 6 seconds before falling apart.

We could summon an undead basalisk that tail whips every 10 seconds and can shoot a beam stunning up to 3 targets.

Two ideas I had last night:

1) Each minion summoned takes a full hit for you every X seconds, including all effects of that attack. So if the minion takes a Backbreaker, it takes all the damage from it, and it is knocked back instead of you.

2) Each minion absorbs X% of the damage you take from all hits, and for each minion summoned you gain a charge of a stun break which pulls the CC effect from you and puts it on the minion instead. So lets say its 5% each, if you have 5 of them and you get hit for a 10k hit, you only take 7.5k damage, and each of your minions takes 500 damage.

Both minions in question would have a very low damage AA that exists solely to apply minion traits. Their HP could be tuned to limit their life span, as well as armor to adjust how much damage they take from normal attacks not transferred from you (the damage they take off of you would be armor ignoring).

The point of the minions would be to give defense that scales properly, like any shout, so it wouldn’t be overbearing in 1v1s where it is harder to kill the minion, but in 5v5s where the minions will die somewhat quickly, you will see a very strong effect for however long it is up. These are also effects that would help any build, not just MM, and wouldn’t be reliant on any minion traits.

Bhawb.7408:

Two ideas I had last night:

1) Each minion summoned takes a full hit for you every X seconds, including all effects of that attack. So if the minion takes a Backbreaker, it takes all the damage from it, and it is knocked back instead of you.

2) Each minion absorbs X% of the damage you take from all hits, and for each minion summoned you gain a charge of a stun break which pulls the CC effect from you and puts it on the minion instead. So lets say its 5% each, if you have 5 of them and you get hit for a 10k hit, you only take 7.5k damage, and each of your minions takes 500 damage.

Both minions in question would have a very low damage AA that exists solely to apply minion traits. Their HP could be tuned to limit their life span, as well as armor to adjust how much damage they take from normal attacks not transferred from you (the damage they take off of you would be armor ignoring).

The point of the minions would be to give defense that scales properly, like any shout, so it wouldn’t be overbearing in 1v1s where it is harder to kill the minion, but in 5v5s where the minions will die somewhat quickly, you will see a very strong effect for however long it is up. These are also effects that would help any build, not just MM, and wouldn’t be reliant on any minion traits.

Well I suggest that the minions generated, degenerate naturally and/or have a spawn limit. Second 5 percent/minion is quite little compared to mesmer’s defender. 10%~20% sounds better.

Tim.6450:

Well I suggest that the minions generated, degenerate naturally and/or have a spawn limit. Second 5 percent/minion is quite little compared to mesmer’s defender. 10%~20% sounds better.

The minions I proposed would degenerate through damage tanking, further degeneration probably isn’t needed. And 5% was just an example, its why I said X%, 5% was just easier to show numbers.

Make Death Nova a minor trait and replace the Grand Master trait with “Death Nova now becomes a blast finisher.”

Death Nova is fine as is, and we really can’t afford to buff the DM/BM/SR tanky as balls US based minion build.

Bhawb.7408:

Death Nova is fine as is, and we really can’t afford to buff the DM/BM/SR tanky as balls US based minion build.

As opposed to your suggestions of reducing damage per minion and minions absorbing attacks that actually hit you?

meow one twenty.4376:

As opposed to your suggestions of reducing damage per minion and minions absorbing attacks that actually hit you?

1) It was either or, you wouldn’t have both
2) My suggestion wouldn’t do anything for DM/BM/SR because you’d have to use Reaper trait line
3) It wouldn’t be a flat buff unlike your idea, they would have to give up one of their minions to do this, which would hurt their damage and utility even further, for defense that wouldn’t really benefit them much
4) That build is only strong in small fights, and Rise! doesn’t do nearly as much in smaller fights

Bhawb.7408:

meow one twenty.4376:

As opposed to your suggestions of reducing damage per minion and minions absorbing attacks that actually hit you?

1) It was either or, you wouldn’t have both
2) My suggestion wouldn’t do anything for DM/BM/SR because you’d have to use Reaper trait line
3) It wouldn’t be a flat buff unlike your idea, they would have to give up one of their minions to do this, which would hurt their damage and utility even further, for defense that wouldn’t really benefit them much
4) That build is only strong in small fights, and Rise! doesn’t do nearly as much in smaller fights

Are you talking about my “and?” You suggested two things, suggestion A and suggestion B… And how exactly would neither add to MM’s tankiness? Only Last Gasp and Strength of Undeath have defensive attributes in SR, meanwhile Reaper has healing on GS. Just a trade-off.

What I would really like is for Death Nova to replace Necromantic Corruption to get rid of the stupid passive transfers that you can do while AFK. As for the buff, it makes them pick being selfish or being supportive, since MM’s are already decent at holding a point and they would get at least the same amount of mionions, (hopefully) minus 20 toughness from Flesh of the Master, it might be good to take the supportive option of blast finishers. Since making something a blast finisher doesn’t increase its damage I guess I don’t see it as a real buff to MM’s, but on the other hand it gives non MM’s reason to take Rise!

meow one twenty.4376:

Are you talking about my “and?” You suggested two things, suggestion A and suggestion B… And how exactly would neither add to MM’s tankiness? Only Last Gasp and Strength of Undeath have defensive attributes in SR, meanwhile Reaper has healing on GS. Just a trade-off.

Suggestions were on an either or basis, they were proposed as different minions.

It wouldn’t add to DM/BM/SR tankiness, which is built on by every single trait taken in the tree. Soul Marks, Vital Persistence, and Foot in the Grave are all defensive traits, and Gluttony, Last Gasp, and Strength of Undeath are also all defensive boosts. Reaper would lose all of these to gain access to “Rise!” which would be based on a tradeoff. Reaper MM would absolutely be less tanky than SR.

Bhawb.7408:

Suggestions were on an either or basis, they were proposed as different minions.

It wouldn’t add to DM/BM/SR tankiness, which is built on by every single trait taken in the tree. Soul Marks, Vital Persistence, and Foot in the Grave are all defensive traits, and Gluttony, Last Gasp, and Strength of Undeath are also all defensive boosts. Reaper would lose all of these to gain access to “Rise!” which would be based on a tradeoff. Reaper MM would absolutely be less tanky than SR.

Did you suggest suggestion A? Yes. And did you suggest suggestion B? Yes. That’s why I put an “and.” Not because I was making them a combined one suggestion. I’ll admit to a few of my mistakes about what is defensive. To me Foot in the Grave is worthless on a MM build because of all the stun spam that breaks right through it and your actual is defense is working whether you are on the ground or not.

15% reduced damage from chilled foes + gaining health from gs (Death Spiral + Death’s Charge + Soul Spiral = mad healing) + Stability uptime + either of your suggestions are just as tanky as anything in SR. Healing gets even more crazy if you are playing with a Boon Share build around you, then you could forget GS and instead heal and gain LF from Blighter’s boon + Chilling Force. Everything is just a trade-off. Do you want toughness or damage reduction? Do you want to gain more LF from staff or from any hits on Chilled targets.

Wait a second. What does my suggestion even buff? All Necros have to spec all the way into Death Magic for some Blast finishers and Minions lose the 25% damage bonus and Condi transfer? That doesn’t sound like much of a MM focused buff.

If we had to use the current Minions we have at hand. (But not Golem because you know that’s Elite)

I think I’d vote either for a Blood Fiend or for Bone Fiend though personally I’m more partial to the Bone Fiend if they made it work like a Mesmer Phantasm summon.

Eg. ~ Rise shout is cast and hits 3 players so a Bone minion is summoned to attack each of these players. Each Bone minion each instantly uses it’s [Rigor Mortis] attack on it’s respective target (The player who got hit to generate them) for an Immobilize (2s) before reverting back to it’s normal Crippling attack. Sort of like how a Phantasm Duelist will summon and use Unload strait off.

But that is just my idea using the existing minions if we get a new one so much the better.

jagged horrors are fine, they just need to adjust the numbers on jagged horror mechanics and fix some issues that are minion wide as a whole.

1. increase the cap on jagged horrors, the current cap is 8 and you can easily hit that with a good “Rise!” and mark of horror wasting 2 jagged horrors. It’s practically impossible to get 8 jagged horrors in normal circumstances, so the cap is silly. Especially since we don’t have the oldest form of reanimate which had no icd.

2.increase accessibility of jagged horrors through existing means. (have death nova create jagged horrors from non-jagged horror minion deaths as well, reduce the cooldown on the jagged horror created through runes of the lich, ect)

3.Minion AI needs some serious polishing. Too many minion traits and mechanics rely on the minions running up to and hitting the enemy for the minions to afk so much.

4.Transformation elites need to NOT kill all minions. Lich form would be perfect for a death nova build using “Rise!” if it didn’t kill all the existing minions.

If the route without jagged horrors is taken, then a new minion type needs to be designed for the shout. Creating any existing minion with the shout beyond jagged horrors takes away from the existing minion summons. Give it wraiths that chill on attack or apply vulnerability.

You know what i’d like? Zombies.
There are loads of risen models of various races, why can’t “Rise!” give you a risen version of whatever mob/player was killed? In the event that there is no risen model there can be a generic construct or maybe a shadowfiend.
I’m sick of the constructs, give us something new!

Petrol.9086:

You know what i’d like? Zombies.
There are loads of risen models of various races, why can’t “Rise!” give you a risen version of whatever mob/player was killed? In the event that there is no risen model there can be a generic construct or maybe a shadowfiend.
I’m sick of the constructs, give us something new!

palawa joko elona king is a necro an he can rise people from the dead

Petrol.9086:

You know what i’d like? Zombies.
There are loads of risen models of various races, why can’t “Rise!” give you a risen version of whatever mob/player was killed? In the event that there is no risen model there can be a generic construct or maybe a shadowfiend.
I’m sick of the constructs, give us something new!

There are ethical reasons for only raising constructs. If you’ll notice, the only people who use actual zombies in the game are evil, and in the lore we also see a Sylvari do it before she understands she isn’t supposed to, and her group kinda freaks out.

Flesheeavers are great. They are cool looking, different from existing minions & not too powerful.

They may count as Demons, not sure.

Anyways, my suggestion from the other thread is to put “Rise” on Superior Rune of the Lich, and I wouldn’t care what kind of minions they are.

Superior lich rune is in dire need of an update: Is this the worst rune set in the game? Rise, which is 1 minion per enemy in shout range, would be an improvement.

What if rise summoned a new more reaper specific minion (maybe small shadow fiends). Minion could have on hit chill or a small chill nova on death.

how about make the skill give the 5 jagger horror base and do something else if a person is hit?