Guild Wars 2

imo i think it would make wellomancers more viable if the duration time on wells were increased to at least 10 or 13 seconds . with all of them being capped off at 5 seconds is just not long enough imo for them to be used effectively in fights .

I would say that the duration of the wells is fine. However, the cooldowns on some of them (Power and Darkness especially) could be reduced a bit more.

I was thinking about this yesterday I think a bump to 7 seconds would be appropriate anything more than that may be pushing it

Leyline Mastery did this along with the standard cd reduction, but i agree with Drarnor, cooldowns are still too high.

agree the duration is fine, but the CD kills it.

Yes, and/or decrease the CD as stated above.

If the concern over increasing the duration is this would make wells OP in PvE, then simply do what they did in GW1; make the AI recognize when they’re standing in AoE and actually move outside the area of effect.

You know, sort of how real players do it. Which is why increasing the duration wouldn’t be OP against real players; they just move out of the well. I can already hear the arguments against it from a PvP perspective, “It would make necros OP because they could hold a point longer!”

Umm…for the class that has practically no mobility and is supposed to facetank everything, then standing one’s ground in the middle of a well storm is pretty much in keeping with that design philosophy. And it’s not without counter play. Don’t want to fight the necro inside their wells? Then knock, launch, pull, or push them out of the wells or kite from outside the perimeter until the wells expire.

Yes, the wells would continue to tick on the point even if the necro is knocked out. But that’s kind of the idea; taking a point defended by a necro shouldn’t – in theory – be an easy proposition. It should come with cost : benefit choices; fight the necro from outside the wells, but potentially lose the point or fight within the wells, potentially stopping the point from being capped, but at the cost of taking damage to do so.

Wells having longer durations isn’t the answer. The issue isn’t if a Necro is the one standing on point, but if they have focused-rituals and can drop wells (which do significant damage or utility) on the point. All they need to do is, again, a slight reduction on some of the CDs, mainly power/darkness.

I wouldn’t mind a trait increasing the size but the duration is rather short in comparison to the cooldown.

Agree with the comments that the CD needs to be reduced. The uptime on Wells is sad.

BUT from a PvE point of view, the Combo Fields on the Wells need to be reconsidered. When threat of overwriting far more valuable Fire and Water Fields forces a PvE Necro to drop the best-DPS-and-sustain option he has…things are borked.

One Light- and four Dark-fields are pointless in organized PvE where Fire and Water are the only ones that matter. For solo PvE, the Necro has next to no way of capitalizing on those fields. Dark Fields would make a LOT of sense with Siphon builds if Necros had whirl finishers that could do something with the field. But they don’t.

As such, I’d actually like to see the Fields removed from Wells. At least from a PvE perspective.

Our wells would be amazing in PvE if PvE content was mind-numbingly easy in general. Being able to blind groups of mobs, and siphon a lot of HP (as well as more damage) would be really helpful. But, again, PvE is too easy right now. As long as PvE is easy the only thing that matters is kittenloads of damage and ways to make that damage even larger.

It would be great to just be able to trap someone into the well for 2-3 sec, or maybe a real cripple (not conversion). Warrior need to be in close combat we can’t make him stay there even with spectral grasp. So duration on wells is not a problem it’s mostly about the effects.

Its agreed: death to cd’s.

I think dropping Well of Power and Well of Darkness to 40 or 45 seconds recharge would be plenty to buff. Suffering is good where it is and I feel Corruption is also in a good spot. I’d love to reduce the cooldown on Well of Blood, but that would result in it being too strong due to the long duration.

Vortok.6975:

It would be great to just be able to trap someone into the well for 2-3 sec, or maybe a real cripple (not conversion). Warrior need to be in close combat we can’t make him stay there even with spectral grasp. So duration on wells is not a problem it’s mostly about the effects.

I can trap someone in a full WoS pretty easily. Bone Fiend is really underrated for this.

The duration buffs could get a little OP with all the available Well traits. Even an increase to 10 second durations would mean each well is healing a Necro another 2000-2250ish health with Vampiric Wells for example.

I would rather no changes to CD/duration, but a one time pull on cast function to all Wells. Up to 5 enemies caught within the cast radius of a well are immediatelly pulled to the centre.

Reducing the CDs on WoP/WoD again is an option. This would however, allow Necromancers to obtain even more serious damage mitigation, control and healing in around 26-32 second timeframes instead of 26-40 with Well builds.

Say they reduced WoP/WoD CDs to 40 seconds base. With bunker/heal Well builds, whatever is attacking the Necro would have to DPS through 20K+ health, 20K-30K healing, high armor, in addition to protection, weakness, chill, blinds, boon debuffing, DS, and dodges before all Well CDs pop within 32 seconds. If said enemy doesn’t have the Necro downed/dead by then or seriously CCed to mitigate Well usage, the Necro is going to be at 100% health again with CDs fully recharged and in a better position than when he/she started the fight.

Simply put having our longest Wells cooldown 8 seconds earlier would be invaluable to indefinite sustain tactics and to the detriment of many, many opposing players.

What? A necro, the class toted as the “attrition” class that builds for high sustain actually being good at sustain? Blasphemy!

With all the ridiculous statistics I’ve posted before for how insane wells can get with siphoning, do you think Anet would just go and make it even worse?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I would say that the duration of the wells is fine. However, the cooldowns on some of them (Power and Darkness especially) could be reduced a bit more.

a bit? their cooldowns are insane. and the stability on well of power is just insulting.

Bhawb.7408:

With all the ridiculous statistics I’ve posted before for how insane wells can get with siphoning, do you think Anet would just go and make it even worse?

Can we compare the build to a bunker guardian? You know, blocks, stability, instant skills, high(er) regen by default and stuff.
But i get your point, we already discussed the “balance” behind skills.

Or just take away pulses and make em a channeling kind with damage overtime ^^

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Or just take away pulses and make em a channeling kind with damage overtime ^^

They aren’t going to start completing changing a set of skills that are just fine…

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I would say that the duration of the wells is fine. However, the cooldowns on some of them (Power and Darkness especially) could be reduced a bit more.

a bit? their cooldowns are insane. and the stability on well of power is just insulting.

The Stability is only to cover the cast of the well. Since that’s it, the cooldown can be reduced and it will still be balanced.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I would say that the duration of the wells is fine. However, the cooldowns on some of them (Power and Darkness especially) could be reduced a bit more.

a bit? their cooldowns are insane. and the stability on well of power is just insulting.

The Stability is only to cover the cast of the well. Since that’s it, the cooldown can be reduced and it will still be balanced.

it’s an instant cast. i’d rather have a longer stability on a different skill. on idk, spectral armor maybe?

Well of Power is not instant cast. The stability was added when Well of Power was taken from its launch form, and given the function of stun-breaking. Since it has a cast time, it was given 1s of stability so that you would get stunned while casting your stun breaker. This was done with a number of skills across all classes.

It was literally listed as such when they made the change.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

What? A necro, the class toted as the “attrition” class that builds for high sustain actually being good at sustain? Blasphemy!

I think a current bunker build is already attrition enough when it comes to CDs/duration on Wells. Much better than it was for the first 2-3 months of the game, when you could never stagger or use them wisely enough to get a synergy going. Since the CD buff, they have pretty much been the only true “attrition” build for Necros (able to construct something that can self sustain and win bouts over time from 30 seconds to 5min fights, against multiple enemies). The problem lays in DS mechanics and a lack of anti-CC for all Necro builds/playstyles.

Although your post was sarcasm, it’s so true when it comes to Anet thinking. Anet really needs to hit themselves over the head and think: You want necros to be the attrition class, but you keep “almost” buffing us then pulling us back from fullfilling such a purpose (regeneration working in DS idea, the nerf to Signet of Vampirism, nerf to DS absorbing damage of a hit if it ends DS etc.). We should probably have a lot more access to stability as well.

Dalanor.5387:

Bhawb.7408:

With all the ridiculous statistics I’ve posted before for how insane wells can get with siphoning, do you think Anet would just go and make it even worse?

Can we compare the build to a bunker guardian? You know, blocks, stability, instant skills, high(er) regen by default and stuff.
But i get your point, we already discussed the “balance” behind skills.

Both true points. Here’s my problem with “bunker” necro even right now:

The only weakness is when I have 2-5+ enemies on me, and i’m “this close” to recasting some new wells but down, because there’s 1-4s left on CDs in which I would have mostly/completely recovered again if I got it off. 1v1 is almost always a win. Again pre Well CD buff this was even worse and caused such builds not to work (just take off Well Mastery with such a Necro and everything falls apart timing wise). Lowering the CDs of WoD/WoP would probably eliminate much this issue for the most part, allowing for more spamming of Wells and 8 seconds less of opportunity for opposing players to kill us.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Or just take away pulses and make em a channeling kind with damage overtime ^^

Interesting idea actually. However I think this would be less effective because as Wells are now, they’re fire and forget. If they worked more like Life Transfer you 1) couldn’t use other skills while channeling, 2) could be interrupted cutting the channel short.

Now maybe if they acted as channeling “auras” that are also fire and forget and can have their radius improved to like 600 from 240 with Focused Rituals…

But like Bhawb said there’s no way they’re going to change the mechanics that much, because there’s really nothing wrong with the way it works now.

Bhawb.7408:

Well of Power is not instant cast. The stability was added when Well of Power was taken from its launch form, and given the function of stun-breaking. Since it has a cast time, it was given 1s of stability so that you would get stunned while casting your stun breaker. This was done with a number of skills across all classes.

It was literally listed as such when they made the change.

oh my bad. 1/2 second cast time. MY BAD YO. i don’t think that really damages my point much.

That is the only reason it has stability, its just so that you don’t cast your stunbreak and then get interrupted, putting the skill on full CD but not even casting the well.

I do agree we need more stability, or at least some way that being CC’d doesn’t hurt us nearly as much as others (but SA is not the place, that utility is already amazing).

Yeah, WoO definitely has issues with the cast time. You always get the outbreak and Stability, but it’s easy to accidentally cancel the Well portion of the skill. Which drives me nuts.

Curious as to this Well bunker build. Anyone have a trait spread?

Why wouldnt you use foot in the grave if you are having stability issues?

I think wells should pulse for 7-8 times.

Because not every build can afford to drop 30 points for stability.

Wells should have a higher pulse rate, or much shorter CD. Also, that well that grants some stability, THAT needs to have a revamp. It gives 1secobd of stability. Not on the pulse, just 1 second. It would make much more sense if it have ape 5 second on cast, instead of 1second, or just 1 second every pulse. The current stability duration is almost laughable and is most definitely pointless.

Again, look at what I posted. The stability is not supposed to be “real” stability, its to cover the cast time of a stun break. They specifically stated this when they changed it, well of power is not a stability skill, its a stun break with a cast time, therefore it got a cover stability.

Bhawb.7408:

Vortok.6975:

It would be great to just be able to trap someone into the well for 2-3 sec, or maybe a real cripple (not conversion). Warrior need to be in close combat we can’t make him stay there even with spectral grasp. So duration on wells is not a problem it’s mostly about the effects.

I can trap someone in a full WoS pretty easily. Bone Fiend is really underrated for this.

The problem is flesh golem is not reliable he don’t charge all the time, if they fix it i will use it.

If you know how to use Flesh Golem he will hit the vast majority of the time. You just need to watch his positioning.

Well the stability is there, either you use it or you dont.

I think that reducing recharge a little bit on WoD and WoP could be a nice move. Another thing is that what has been noticed above: combo fields. I think we could use more.
-Well of Darkness could be a smoke field instead of dark. Could be fun
-Well of Power could be maybe ice combo field. Giving yourself Frost Armor or chilling enemy makes sense for Necromancer’s theme

Rym.1469:

I think that reducing recharge a little bit on WoD and WoP could be a nice move. Another thing is that what has been noticed above: combo fields. I think we could use more.
-Well of Darkness could be a smoke field instead of dark. Could be fun
-Well of Power could be maybe ice combo field. Giving yourself Frost Armor or chilling enemy makes sense for Necromancer’s theme

And corruption can be a poison field. More weakness!
If we ever get a whirl finisher, maybe on a greatsword, that would make vampiric builds really nasty with the current fields. Well of Blood would be another cleanse option and leeching bolts in a dark field gives Healing: 170 (0.05) as wiki states. Mmmmh bacon. I actually starts to like dark fields.

Balekai, can you go in detail with this well bunker build?

edit: typo

Dalanor.5387:

And corruption can be a poison field. More weakness!
If we ever get a whirl finisher, maybe on a greatsword, that would make vampiric builds really nasty with the current fields. Well of Blood would be another cleanse option and leeching bolts in a dark field gives Healing: 170 (0.05) as wiki states. Mmmmh bacon. I actually starts to like dark fields.

I would adore the Dark fields on our Wells if we had the finishers to use them. It makes absolutely no sense to provide something so perfect for the Necro Vampiric concept and then forget (?) to give the Necro the means by which to USE the combo field. I dunno—maybe they thought this was the Necro’s form of group support.

Dalanor.5387:

Balekai, can you go in detail with this well bunker build?

Seconded.

Wow dark fields are so lousy. Could they be anything else?

(They are lousy because lifesteal is lousy and lifesteal can’t ever be good either)

Best possible scenario is that the well cooldown trait is removed (remember that well cooldowns are balanced as if this trait is active), and some of that cooldown time is given to the necromancer.

Phenn.5167:

I would adore the Dark fields on our Wells if we had the finishers to use them. It makes absolutely no sense to provide something so perfect for the Necro Vampiric concept and then forget (?) to give the Necro the means by which to USE the combo field. I dunno—maybe they thought this was the Necro’s form of group support.

Agreed. Only class with good access to dark fields. Slot 3 wells for dark fields. No finishers to use in them. gg

Vortok.6975:

It would be great to just be able to trap someone into the well for 2-3 sec, or maybe a real cripple (not conversion). Warrior need to be in close combat we can’t make him stay there even with spectral grasp. So duration on wells is not a problem it’s mostly about the effects.

Best way to do this is to cast the well on a downed player.

He’s trapped! (And he is a trap for would be rezzers)

Bhawb.7408:

Vortok.6975:

It would be great to just be able to trap someone into the well for 2-3 sec, or maybe a real cripple (not conversion). Warrior need to be in close combat we can’t make him stay there even with spectral grasp. So duration on wells is not a problem it’s mostly about the effects.

I can trap someone in a full WoS pretty easily. Bone Fiend is really underrated for this.

Does Rigor Mortis hit the enemy even while you’re Blinded, since it’s the Fiend that’s casting the immob on them? If so, I have a new plan for Thieves. I can’t test at the moment.

Yes, it does. It is just a buffed Bone Fiend auto-attack, so its just the minion “casting” its normal auto attack with a buff.

Bhawb.7408:

Yes, it does. It is just a buffed Bone Fiend auto-attack, so its just the minion “casting” its normal auto attack with a buff.

Oh god, I have to play around with this ASAP.

nekretaal.6485:

Vortok.6975:

It would be great to just be able to trap someone into the well for 2-3 sec, or maybe a real cripple (not conversion). Warrior need to be in close combat we can’t make him stay there even with spectral grasp. So duration on wells is not a problem it’s mostly about the effects.

Best way to do this is to cast the well on a downed player.

He’s trapped! (And he is a trap for would be rezzers)

lol yeah, drop WoD with WoS and you don’t even need to finish him/her

Phenn.5167:

Dalanor.5387:

And corruption can be a poison field. More weakness!
If we ever get a whirl finisher, maybe on a greatsword, that would make vampiric builds really nasty with the current fields. Well of Blood would be another cleanse option and leeching bolts in a dark field gives Healing: 170 (0.05) as wiki states. Mmmmh bacon. I actually starts to like dark fields.

I would adore the Dark fields on our Wells if we had the finishers to use them. It makes absolutely no sense to provide something so perfect for the Necro Vampiric concept and then forget (?) to give the Necro the means by which to USE the combo field. I dunno—maybe they thought this was the Necro’s form of group support.

Dalanor.5387:

Balekai, can you go in detail with this well bunker build?

Seconded.

Here’s the bunker build I use and how its set for SPvP (but with Shaman pvp gear) and WvW roaming/small groups.

Apothecary Bunker/Support Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQad6Zaia07JApHXj9zTP+ecxjKMMA-j0CBYiCyINJjWQZm8IQpnBNNdRjVTFRjVPjIqWfEziDzImIqWIgFrBA-w

In WvW if I do join a zerg or the roaming group gets big enough, I just switch out Mark of Blood for Transfusion and Dagger offhand for Warhorn (in zerg). I’m usually running a soldiers zerg build in “real” zerg fights though because condition damage will only tick once, maybe twice per application. If I want to burn down camps really fast and not really fight players I just go solo with Rabid condimancer and flip stuff.

I can also post stats/rundowns of DPS, Healing, Siphoning etc. of the above build, since I have it saved away for my own use and build comparisons. To keep it simple, reduction in WoP/WoD would help my build a lot with synergizing to the point of OP in my opinion (it already does very well). Chain CC against me and failing to maintain proper condition/cc application through human error or opposing player skill would be all that’s left weakness wise.

I really like the idea of different fields as it could add a lot more utility. If only we had more ways to actually finish them. Also full Dark Fields could be awsome if later on we get extra weapons (like GS) with whirl finishers etc.