Guild Wars 2

So I watched the video and Robert said that vampiric aura is the same value as old vampiric without the 20% buff. So essentially your self heal from siphons end up being weaker than what you can have now with all siphon traits chosen.

I also have a strong feeling you are gonna get more healing from [life from death] than what you can realistically expect to siphons while in DS.

I love it!! Please punish me even more for playing this class, it feels so good to be slapped in the face.

You really believe he’s going to buff vampiric aura? I’m just glad that he didn’t nerf it even more since we can share it now.

Vampiric is about 20% lower than vampiric precision on live, so this is a buff unless you were constantly sitting at over 68% crit chance for the entire fight.

I dunno about you, but I’m pretty sure that no build with that much crit chance should have been giving a kitten about siphon traits anyway

Even with a mere 30HP/hit heal, that means a fully cleaving 100B will heal 720 HP… and that’s just one ally. This trait is far more powerful than you’re giving it credit for.

What he said.

It isn’t so great for the necromancer alone (you probably want another trait if you’re being selfish), but it is good for your teammates. (Although its still laughable compared to a pot of lifesteal food).

Rising Dusk.2408:

Even with a mere 30HP/hit heal, that means a fully cleaving 100B will heal 720 HP… and that’s just one ally. This trait is far more powerful than you’re giving it credit for.

This is asuming 3x targets stays in the full channel the entire time and on trash mobs where this will happen the most, you don’t need any healing. Also I think your number is a bit short since there is 8x blows+Final blow so it would technically be a little more healing.

AFAIK siphon damage can not be mitigated? So I suppose there is something to be said for the little extra damage. I still think the numbers are to low for it to ever see any competitive play. It has to provide enough healing or damage for it to bring at least equal-level value to someone with banners, spotter, might stacking, or using a guard with any aoe healing(on top of everything else they bring) for maintaining party scholar bonuses(50fractals). If it can not be competitive with that it is something that has no practical use to it with little benefit outside of some very fringe cases.

All siphons have been increased by base 20%. With this trait you will self siphon for around 70 a hit. It’s slightly lower than the 90 you can get nke but it doesn’t depend on critting for VP. It actually increases the amount you can siphon. Also we don’t know if they have been buffed or not and how well their effects now scale with power and healing power.

Siphon damage cannot be mitigates unless it’s by an ability than makes you invulnerable. You can still damage targets who use signet of stone of endure pain.

I dont see how they were nerfed. Vampric is basically the same and unless you run high crit chance, vampiric aura is more lifesteal then the old vampiric presicion (not even counting the benefits for allies).

Also with blood bond we also get more lifesteal in the traitline.

I think it is safe to say that bloodmagic was buffed though i am not sure if it will be enough for necros to be more viable.

In fact, ATM :
Vampiric : 38 heal/damage per hit
Vampiric precision : 52 heal/damage per hit
Total if crit : 90 heal/damage per hit

After the change it should be :
Vampiric : 45.6 heal/damage per hit
vampiric aura : 45.6 heal/damage per hit
Total without having to crit : 91.2 heal/damage per hit

If anything, this is a flat buff.

^
Vampiric Aura numbers start with old vampiric values, so we are looking at

~45 heal/dmg through vampiric
~38 heal/dmg through vampiric aura + 4 allies with it.

While theoretical lifesteal maximum has been nerfed through the removal of vampiric precision, we are looking at way more steady values now that aren’t crit dependant.
Also we only need 1 additional trait (vamp aura) and not 2 (vamp prec, bloodthirst).

Remember bloodthirst has been made baseline. It is a buff for vampiric traits overall. It might not be huge but they also introduced healing in DS with it.

Oh my bad… i’m so used to use bloodthirst that I took value with bloodthirst…
So it will be 38 for vampiric and 31 for vampiric presence and an overall 70 siphon with the 2 of them…

It cut down the number but, let’s say that it’s a buff for all non crit builds.
Humm… DS#4 still a potential 3150 selfheal

Dadnir.5038:

Oh my bad… i’m so used to use bloodthirst that I took value with bloodthirst…
So it will be 38 for vampiric and 31 for vampiric presence and an overall 70 siphon with the 2 of them…

It cut down the number but, let’s say that it’s a buff for all non crit builds.

With around 2,1k power Vampiric currently does 38 dmg (without bloodthirst). So i am expecting the after patch values to be (with 2,1k+ power) 45 for Vampiric and 38 for Vampiric aura. The power scaling is small but it’s there. Do you happen to take those values from a condi build?

I’m not saying siphon builds were viable to begin with but the few builds I’ve been fooling around with I always had high crit. Kinda pointless to have vamp precision without crit chance in the first place.

nope pure power build and if you look at the value on a build editor, it’s like I said. Maybe you to are so used to bloodthirst that you didn’t took it in account.

And I’m sure that with bloodthirst it’s 38 for vampiric and 52 for vampiric precision for a total of 90 in the best case. I think with 45 and 62, at 107 per hit siphon wouldn’t be overlooked as they are right now.

scenario: vampiric + vampiric aura + vampiric wells.

the damage-on-pulse wells will now triple-siphon every hit. up to 5 targets. no precision needed.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

scenario: vampiric + vampiric aura + vampiric wells.

the damage-on-pulse wells will now triple-siphon every hit. up to 5 targets. no precision needed.

This is really the key thats going to push wellsteal over the top. Vampiric aura works on wells that don’t do damage, where vampiric precision didn’t because the well had to crit.

Combine this with the fact that bloodthirst is rolled into the baseline numbers so we can actually take it without vampiric rituals bugging out, and we’ll be realistically seeing 4k plus heals per well.

still split between 2 stats, doesn’t scale well with either of them very well. I don’t see how I’m the only one who sees this problem.

Lily.1935:

still split between 2 stats, doesn’t scale well with either of them very well. I don’t see how I’m the only one who sees this problem.

Siphons are intended not to scale because of their mitigation proof-property.

However, there’s a key aspect to flat numbers that you don’t get with ratios. While you can’t build stats to make them better, you also don’t make them worse by not building stats around them. What you do with flat numbers is thus opposite of what you do with good scaling ratios

You’re encouraged to build the other stats that multiply the effectively stat free bonus. Basically, you want to not build any healing power/power at all because lifesteals provide health and damage with 0 stat investment, and max out toughness/condicleanses because those will make the flat quantities you get more effective in combination.

It’s a different way of scaling, and a core part of mobas which gw2 is obviously drawing from. If your kit comes with a large amount of free stats, you don’t build more of those stats. You build more of the other stats that synergize with the flat bonuses. There’s nothing inherently wrong with having numbers that don’t scale.

Linnael.1069:

Lily.1935:

still split between 2 stats, doesn’t scale well with either of them very well. I don’t see how I’m the only one who sees this problem.

Siphons are intended not to scale because of their mitigation proof-property.

However, there’s a key aspect to flat numbers that you don’t get with ratios. While you can’t build stats to make them better, you also don’t make them worse by not building stats around them. What you do with flat numbers is thus opposite of what you do with good scaling ratios

You’re encouraged to build the other stats that multiply the effectively stat free bonus. Basically, you want to not build any healing power/power at all because lifesteals provide health and damage with 0 stat investment, and max out toughness/condicleanses because those will make the flat quantities you get more effective in combination.

It’s a different way of scaling, and a core part of mobas which gw2 is obviously drawing from. If your kit comes with a large amount of free stats, you don’t build more of those stats. You build more of the other stats that synergize with the flat bonuses. There’s nothing inherently wrong with having numbers that don’t scale.

I agree. It’s fairly clear now with the lack of siphon number changes, that siphons have always been intended as a complimentary form of attrition instead of something that’s self-sufficient on its own. A lower dmg “conditionless” condition of sorts that’s based off hits.

Although this sucks for anyone who has wanted to build around siphons as a potent sustain (including me), the advantage is that you don’t have to build around them at all and can still reap the near full benefits. Even if they’re underpowered. This is more true than ever before with near zero trait conflicts in BM and precision no longer being required. Siphons are now completely stat independent.

We can play Zerker, Apothecary, Knights, Soldiers, Zealots or whatever and still get around the same numbers. The only real difference between gear being effective healing between gear stats due to added damage reduction from toughness.

The new support functionality of Blood Magic along with some interesting traits changes gives us Necros other reasons than siphons to build up Healing Power.

As others have said, Vampiric Rituals with the new changes will be really nice in combination with Vampiric/Vampiric Presence. Not only will Wells heal large amounts of health when they hit a max amount of enemies, they will also be able to heal through shroud now. Drop Vampiric Wells into enemy zergs, pop DS and watch yourself dramatically heal. Right now this trick requires you to stay out of DS and run/kite like there’s no tomorrow to avoid incoming DPS.